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What kind of gas mileage do you get?
AtomSmasher:
--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 27, 2008, 11:48:43 am ---One minor comment.
If your business is so close to the edge that being late for a single customer could put you under, could it possibly be because your expenses are so high?
--- End quote ---
My business expenses are next to nothing, and as I said, the $200/month to pay for the car will not make or break a business. Besides, my last car was a gas guzzler, so I know if I bought an old gas guzzler for really cheap, I would have to spend $100-$150 more on gas each month, which means I'm actually only paying $50-100 more a month then buying an old gas guzzler, and thats not including the $500 or whatever a year for repairs.
Also, Missing a single appointment will not put me under on its own, but if a client gets upset and decides to use someone else who always makes the appointments, then I lose all of the business I would of gotten from them, and that most likely would put me under. Work is slow for everyone in my field right now and theres no shortage of competition, so keeping my clients happy is my #1 goal.
Ed_McCarron:
--- Quote from: Havok on April 11, 2008, 11:21:45 pm ---TransAm - hehe, used to have a Bandit edition, but this is a newer model. I get 25 mpg highway, and 10 mpg when I stomp on it. So... about 10 mpg...
;D
--- End quote ---
I just gave my old '79 Trans-Am to the mechanic that works on my cars. It was a 6.6L, think it got about 6 gallons per mile. ;)
My 96 explorer averages 18 hwy, my wifes 03 Escape averages 22 hwy.
Wade:
This will probably have to be my last post on this subject, because I don't have time to write a dissertation on the false economies of driving old cars.
I agree that buying a new car just to save gas mileage is pretty narrow-minded, but if someone is going to buy a new car, they should seriously consider getting one that gets excellent mileage.
Driving a beater is acceptable for a teenage boy, even a student or young person with very little responsibilities and a a job that isn't demanding, and nothing better to do than spend a weekend working on a broken down car. If someone can't afford a new car or can't get credit, then perhaps they have no choice but to drive an old car. That doesn't mean they should keep driving old cars if they had a little more money/credit.
But for most of the working population, a dependable car is a must. Bad scenarios we want to avoid:
1) Broken down in the rain or snow
2) Broken down with children/infants in the car
3) Broken down with an important work meeting being missed/delayed
4) Broken down in bad part of town
5) Broken down and missing/being late for a job interview
6) Broken down and missing a class test
7) Broken down, and spending a whole weekend (+$$$ parts cost) working on the car
8 ) Broken down, missing a full day of work to deal with getting the car towed, getting to the shop, etc.
If I missed (or was late for) a job interview, that would likely cost me the job. That could be worth $25k+/yr. Not worth gambling to try to save $1000/yr, and risk a problem like that.
In the past 5 years, I've been stranded 3 times at VERY bad times off the top of my head. Now I have a baby, and that makes undesirable situations even more important to avoid.
--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 25, 2008, 08:19:28 am ---Wade, the sheer fact that you are discussing a monthly payment as is that was an important number shows me that you really don't have a handle on automotive costs. And for the record, ALL cars need maintenance.
--- End quote ---
I have a pretty good handle on automotive costs. And older cars require significantly more cost to keep them running.
I've driven a lot of older cars, and after years of hidden costs and unexpected work/life interruptions, I've come to realize that a few thousand dollars a year is WELL worth removing that wasted time/effort/worry from my life.
Monthly payment *is* an important number. When a payment is < $200/month, it isn't too difficult for a used car to meet or exceed that cost. Then the argument for driving beater cars really holds no water at all, since the ONLY positive argument for old cars is they "can" cost less.
--- Quote ---I have been driving about 16 years, 12 of those years I drove sub $2000 clunkers. My TOTAL in repair bills from 1993 to 2007 is LESS than the $2400 you'd make in payments on that hybrid in one year, and that was if you somehow got a $22000 hybrid with $500 down for 5 years down to $200 a month, my loan calculator says that would be $428 a month. Since I am assuming that is impossible I will start talking about a new standard civic instead.
--- End quote ---
Lucky you, having less than $2400 in repairs in 14 years of driving beaters. You're HIGHLY unusual in that respect. I spent more than that in just a couple of years of driving old cars. I've spent enough money over the course of driving a lot of old cars for about 10 years, that I could have bought a brand new car.
I don't have a $22k hybrid, I bought a 2008 4-door Yaris with a sticker of $14.5k. Happily gave them my 98 Camry beater in trade and took a loan for the $10k. I would say that just about anyone with some motivation or a trade could get the same price, or near it.
My only regret is not buying it sooner!
--- Quote ---10,000 miles per year on a V8 getting 18 MPG at $3.50 a gallon costs a person $1944 a year.
10,000 miles a year on a standard 2008 Honda civic (29 mpg, which is really pitiful if you ask me) at $3.50 a gallon costs $1206 a year.
So in theory you save yourself $744 a year here, oh wait, how much extra is that full coverage insurance on that car you are financing? Better add in $500 extra a year for that.
--- End quote ---
1) Most V8's are getting far worse than 18 MPG in mixed/city. Especially older cars.
2) Full coverage insurance on my Yaris (versus liability only before) caused my insurance to go up only $200/year. If I had full coverage on my previous car the cost difference would be significantly less than the $200, obviously.
--- Quote --- Now you are saving $244 a year. Ooh, what about property taxes on that brand new car, there goes an amount of money that is going to vary from $0 in some places up to about $900. We will assume your rates are on the lower end and merely eat up that $244.
--- End quote ---
Property tax was required on every vehicle I've owned, new or used. Given the value of this car, I'd expect it to rise by no more than $200.
--- Quote ---Wow, now you have broken even.
Wait, there is more, there is about $1200 in sales tax to pay on that car. We will split that over 5 years to be nice. $240 cost per year.
--- End quote ---
Sales tax was included in the purchase price and $10k financed.
--- Quote ---Wait, there is more, to the tune of $600 a year in interest (averaged over 5 years and assuming you have good credit).
--- End quote ---
Interest is included in the < $200/month payment.
The argument to drive an old car to save money doesn't hold water... unless the person has particularly bad luck with new cars and superb luck with old cars, doesn't value his time at all, likes to work on cars, doesn't mind being stranded in bad weather/bad neighborhood/with work attire, has a job where absense is expected, has no family obligations or other responsibilities, doesn't attend school, and has no aspirations for getting a better job.
Wade
Wade:
--- Quote from: Cakemeister on April 25, 2008, 09:11:32 am ---
--- Quote from: Wade on April 24, 2008, 08:15:29 pm ---If you figure that car will likely need virtually no work or maintenance for the first 8-10 years, it's even cheaper to own.
--- End quote ---
:laugh2:
Paige is absolutely right on this one. The total cost of ownership will be lowest for a junker, even a gas-guzzling junker.
That's not saying that buying the Civic, Prius or any other new car is bad or wrong. You just have to realize that you're trading off a higher total cost of ownership against the greater reliability, features, comfort, "smug", and chick-attractiveness factor of the new car.
--- End quote ---
Practically everyone I know drives new cars for 5-7 years, and in that period, it's rare that any work needs to be done aside from oil changes and a set of tires. If you think an 8 year old car will require less work over the same 5-10 year period versus the new car, you're fooling yourself (and only yourself).
Wade
Wade:
--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 25, 2008, 11:33:33 am ---Insurance matters because no one with two brain cells to rub together has full coverage insurance on a car worth less than 5 or 6 grand. The comprehensive and collision doubles your insurance rates at a bare minimum.
--- End quote ---
Full coverage doesn't always cost a lot more. We went from 3 liability only vehicles to 1 liability only vehicle and 2 NEW vehicles, both with full coverage, and it only costs about $35/month more. In fact, I've been considering picking full coverage back up on the RX-7, just for peace of mind.
Insurance for my wife and I together:
LIABILITY ONLY: 98 Camry, 90 Olds cutlass, 94 RX-7:
$900/yr
LIABILITY ONLY: 98 Camry, 94 RX-7
FULL COVERAGE: : 07 Odyssey
$1100/yr
LIABILITY ONLY: 94 RX-7
FULL COVERAGE: : 07 Odyssey, 08 Yaris
$1300/yr
Wade
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