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What a horrible thing to do to a child.
Ed_McCarron:
--- Quote from: myntik1 on April 09, 2008, 11:46:11 am ---
A belt shouldn't be the only form of discipline, but it should be in the tool box.
--- End quote ---
I don't think I'd even use a belt. I've been hit with everything from shoes to tentpoles as a kid, and have never had to use anything more than an open hand on my son, who, is exactly like me. Neither one of us has enough of an attention span to complete anythi
Oh, and occasionally, I flick his ear with an index finger. That gets him to pay attention pretty quick.
shmokes:
--- Quote from: myntik1 on April 09, 2008, 11:14:52 am ---
To me one is discipline (tough love to a small degree) and the other is abuse.
--- End quote ---
This answer is a perfect example of why I asked you to articulate the difference between discipline and beating. Do you see the problem with your answer?
You can't base it it on something leaving a mark. Marks can be meaningless. My wife will get an enormous green bruise if she bumps her leg into a desk as she walks by. You can punch me as hard as you can in the arm or leg and I won't bruise. The biggest problem with this idea is it completely ignores that the psychological effects of abuse are far more damaging than its physical effects in most cases. And what about abuse that leaves no marks. Is it not abuse when you have a single mom who tells her kid how ugly and stupid and worthless he is -- that it is the boy's fault that his father abandoned them, because he couldn't stand being around the kid? Ed's suggestion that it boils down to whether the kid has a diaper on and is running in the street is completely unrealistic (what is this obsession with kids running in the street that spankers have?). Are you really saying that spanking becomes abuse the day your kid becomes potty trained? I don't think you really believe that. And let's be honest, do you really think that children of parents who don't spank their kids are statistically more likely to get hit by a car?
--- Quote from: AtomSmasher on April 09, 2008, 11:26:43 am ---the picture was my dad as a big monster rearing up with a belt yelling "arg!" and me cowering in the corner saying "help me."
--- End quote ---
I think this illustrates the problem. Kids have a very limited ability to suss out complex situations. They can't put things into context. They have no experience. It's why scary movies ---fudgesicle--- with them so much. If you ever had to deal with a bully in school, you can understand where that picture came from. Except unlike a fellow third or fourth grader that happens to be bigger, he is faced with physical violence from someone at least five times his size. And you can scoff all you want, and roll your eyes about my characterization of spanking as violence, but how else do you explain the drawing? This is from someone who grew up and says that he was hardly ever even spanked. Hell, Myntik1 said himself that he hopes that his kids will be good because they will be afraid of getting spanked. I don't think your children should fear physical violence from someone five times their size. It's fundamentally wrong.
I think it's wrong to determine whether the means of hitting (or spanking if you insist on the euphemism) your kids is okay solely on the ends of whether you leave a bruise or a scar. The scar that matters is psychological.
Jdurg:
I grew up in a family where getting smacked was the punishment you could expect if you acted wrong or did something dangerous. If I misbehaved, I'd get a quick smack on ---my bottom--- from my mother or father, get sent to my room, no videogames, no tv, no nothing. Just sitting in my room doing homework or staring at a blank wall. I knew that if I was a little ---tallywhacker--- or didn't behave like a respectful human being should, I would get an uncomfortable smack on my backside or my face, and be bored out of my mind for a good few days.
Today, kids have their cell-phones, DVD players, portable video game devices, televisions, etc. etc. and parents aren't willing to take away all of the entertainment sources the kids have. Kids are learning that they have nothing to fear from their parents or guardians because they won't have anything taken away from them if they misbehave. When there is no negative reinforcement, the kids learn to do whatever the hell they want. It's sad really. :'(
Jdurg:
Spanking is discipline if your intent for the spanking is to change the child's behavior and have them understand that what they did was wrong. When I got spanked as a kid, immediately afterward my mother or father would ask "Do you know why you got spanked?" and I'd have to answer them honestly if I even hoped to see a television or video game in the next few days.
Spanking is abuse when there is no intent to change the child's behavior for his/her own benefit. If the intent of the spanking is to relieve a parent's frustration or anger, or just to make the parent happy, that is abuse.
Ed_McCarron:
--- Quote from: shmokes on April 09, 2008, 12:15:02 pm ---You can punch me as hard as you can in the arm or leg and I won't bruise.
--- End quote ---
Is that a statement or an invitation? ;D
Honestly, just like with anything else, it all comes down to individual preference. I won't tell you how to discipline your kids if you don't tell my how to discipline mine.
You do have kids, right?
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