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Author Topic: [paint] need some serious help  (Read 3735 times)

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clickhea

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[paint] need some serious help
« on: April 01, 2008, 02:23:08 pm »
iam on about the 10th coat now because no matter what i try the paint is not coming out right.. you can see roller marks and whatever other marks the paint is leaving.. i tried everything i could possibly think of.

so now after this coat drys its time to sand it down again and try again..... iam using eggshell black.

HaRuMaN

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2008, 02:25:17 pm »
Are you sanding between coats with finer and finer grit sandpaper?

Is the paint you're applying too thick (need to be thinned)?

Oil or water base?

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2008, 02:30:40 pm »
i should of added some more information iam sorry, iam very annoyed.

paint : latex eggshell black
method: white roller made for very smooth applications.
 
i tried thinning the paint its still giving me horrible results.

as for sanding between coats, i been using 220.

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2008, 02:37:08 pm »
What kind of wood, and did you put primer down?

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2008, 02:39:22 pm »
mdf, yes 2 coats of primer, sanded the primer down till it was smooth.

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2008, 03:11:07 pm »
1 wood sanding paper and paint sanding paper is the same right?
2 so u need a roller for a smooth finish? what about a brush?

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2008, 03:43:42 pm »
I feel your pain clickhea. I too got some pretty poor results regardless of how well I sanded and carefully applied the paint. I finally came to the realization that if your going to use a roller to apply paint, don't expect excellent results. I think if you're not seeing improvements after that many coats, you're really not going to and in fact will probably worsen as it builds up too much on the edges and corners. For the sides of the cab, you may try a wide foam brush to go over the paint after rolling. That helped me a little (very little)..The good news is that I seem to be the only one that notices on my cab and it's only really noticeable when the light hits it just right... :)

I believe that the glossier the paint, the more noticeable the imperfections. Eggshell should hide pretty well though... If I were to do it over again, my first choice would be to spray it. My second choice would be to use a flat black with a laquer finish.

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2008, 03:45:31 pm »
Sorry but you aren't going to get a 'car smooth' finish with a roller.
Sounds like you are expecting too much.
If you use a roller, you are going to get some form of orange peel. Latex paints won't sand dead flat and then polish up like glass no matter what you do. If you want or were expecting a car finish, use car paint.

Sorry.

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2008, 04:38:26 pm »
No. I didnt use car paint and still got a car finish. I used gloss spray paint and wet sanded till I got the result I wanted. Worked pretty good.

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 04:58:55 pm »
Here is a forum discussion which includes a link to a tutorial. I experienced some frustration over the weekend and finally found this. I'm so tired of having my cab down though (plus I will eventually do an overlay) so I'm living with orange peel. However, I want to give this a try sometime.

http://www.wizdforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3697
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clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 05:30:33 pm »
so what ur telling me is, everyone who uses a roller pretty much ends up with roller marks on their cab?

javeryh

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2008, 05:33:08 pm »
so what ur telling me is, everyone who uses a roller pretty much ends up with roller marks on their cab?

There shouldn't be any roller marks other than "orange peel" - you know, when you get close there are a million little bumps like the skin of an orange.  Anything else like lines or streaks can and should be avoided.

THIS is what inspired me.  The guy did an absolute SICK job.  I followed it as closely as I could and my results were great - better than I thought I could achieve but there are TONS of imperfections and "orange peel" where the light hits it just right.  There's just no way to get this perfect without a lot of practice and experience.  It is the best I could do with a roller and latex paint on MDF though and I'm very happy with it - people are always commenting on how slick it looks and how it almost looks like a piece of plastic.  Also, 220 grit isn't nearly smooth enough if you are striving for a mirrored finish.  Keep at it!!   :cheers:

TelcoLou

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2008, 05:33:52 pm »
I used a foam brush; no roller marks. I also used oil-based enamel, eggshell. I think maybe latex paint is more susceptible to that orange peel look. :dunno
So a leper walks into a bar and as he gets his beer, a finger falls off. The bartender who is serving him turns and pukes all over the place. The leper, feeling bad, says, "Was it my finger falling off?" The bartender turns to him and says, "No, it's the guy dipping chips into your back."

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2008, 05:41:19 pm »
you used a foam brush? as in not a roller?

TelcoLou

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2008, 05:44:54 pm »
you used a foam brush? as in not a roller?

That is correct; more accurately, "brushes" .. I threw them out after each side, to prevent any gunking up. I sanded the hell out of all the surfaces (I think it was some kind of laminate on there), cleaned it up very well (with like a million damp paper towels), then put 2 coats of paint on. I didn't even sand in between coats.
So a leper walks into a bar and as he gets his beer, a finger falls off. The bartender who is serving him turns and pukes all over the place. The leper, feeling bad, says, "Was it my finger falling off?" The bartender turns to him and says, "No, it's the guy dipping chips into your back."

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2008, 05:56:53 pm »
so you got a nice finish using a brush? i was considering trying a brush,, i thought it would leave brush marks tho

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2008, 06:02:05 pm »
thats crazy jave, iam not really going for a mirror finish, i just want the finish to look decent

TelcoLou

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2008, 06:07:13 pm »
so you got a nice finish using a brush? i was considering trying a brush,, i thought it would leave brush marks tho

Traditional brushes would, but this is foam, so no bristles.

I posted a few pictures of the cabinet here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=76724.0

It's not mirror-smooth, but you can't see any brush marks, and has a nice even finish (I also painted the coin door the same way using the same paint).
So a leper walks into a bar and as he gets his beer, a finger falls off. The bartender who is serving him turns and pukes all over the place. The leper, feeling bad, says, "Was it my finger falling off?" The bartender turns to him and says, "No, it's the guy dipping chips into your back."

marlboroa

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2008, 07:08:00 pm »
i use a foam roller  there about 6 inches wide and they work great for me 

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2008, 08:59:20 pm »

TelcoLou

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2008, 09:05:37 pm »
your talking about these right tel?

http://www.artifolk.co.uk/images/products/8099x300.jpg

Bingo! Avoid the plastic-handle ones .. they're cheaper both in cost and quality .. from my experience, the wood-handle ones are made of a denser foam (and are a bit more $$, but worth it)  :)
So a leper walks into a bar and as he gets his beer, a finger falls off. The bartender who is serving him turns and pukes all over the place. The leper, feeling bad, says, "Was it my finger falling off?" The bartender turns to him and says, "No, it's the guy dipping chips into your back."

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2008, 10:40:56 pm »
i actually have a few of these iam going to give them a try tomorrow.. any tips while using them?

how much paint do i want on the brush? alot a little?

TelcoLou

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2008, 10:49:33 pm »
Well, I used it full strength (I.E., no thinning), picking up a generous amount on the brush. Applied it to the surface horizontally in about 6" wide sections, evening out the amount by going back-and-forth maybe a dozen times, then moved on to the next section lower, overlapping where I left off by ~2 inches.

NOTE: I used oil-based enamel, which has a longer drying time though, not sure if this technique would work as well for latex. I also let the first coat dry for 24 hours before applying the 2nd coat.
So a leper walks into a bar and as he gets his beer, a finger falls off. The bartender who is serving him turns and pukes all over the place. The leper, feeling bad, says, "Was it my finger falling off?" The bartender turns to him and says, "No, it's the guy dipping chips into your back."

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2008, 12:01:45 am »
i'll try a small area tomororw and let you know how it goes

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2008, 08:43:16 pm »
foam brush diddnt work out well at all, it left lots of lines in the paint.


back to the roller ;[


still having more issues iam ready to throw this thing out the window.


when you paint with the roller are you guys painting in a V or   left to right.. or up and down?

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2008, 09:12:09 pm »
Heh.  I wish I had your problems.  I'm having trouble trying to decide what color paint I'm going to use on my cab.  I wish I stuck with the simple black and blue cab design, but my Family Guy design is calling for other colors and I can't even decide what they should be!!!   :cheers:
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clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2008, 09:24:30 pm »
lol trust me this is way worse than trying to figure out what color..

i probably have painted the thing about 15 times and sanded it 15 times.. its starting to get old quick


when you paint with the roller are you guys painting in a V or   left to right.. or up and down?

another major problem iam having is, wherever the roller stops while painting a section, it leaves orange peel. so i have orange peel all over the place.. how is this avoided? do i have to paint from edge to edge?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 10:20:39 pm by clickhea »

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2008, 08:25:29 am »
I went through the same thing.. I used a roller and black eggshell paint, and when reading other posts, I had expected to see zero orange peel.  The more layers of paint I built up and sanded down, the gummier everything became.  I eventually gave up on getting rid of orange peel with a roller and sandpaper.

Now for my control panel, I used glossy spray paint and wet sanded, and the results were night and day!  Images Here.  You might want to take a scrap piece of wood, grab some spray paint, and some really fine wet sanding paper and give this technique a go.  That's how I'm going to finish my wood bezel, and I expect it to look killer when completed.

Good luck.  I feel your frustrations though!

-csa

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2008, 09:25:06 am »
ah yeah thats nice dude

would be so much work on a huge cabinet tho

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2008, 10:42:34 am »
OMG I GOT IT!!!

apparently the stuff i was using to thin the paint out was ruining everything.. it finnaly poped into my head to try regular tap water and it came out almost perfectly... few lines but def nothing major.

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2008, 11:49:48 am »
You were thinning latex paint with something other than water?

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2008, 11:56:45 am »
yeah the guy at the store gave me some kinda mineral somthing to thin it with

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2008, 12:55:59 pm »
Mineral spirits? I do believe that is for oil based paint only. I've personally never heard of thinning latex with anything but water...

HaRuMaN

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2008, 02:23:41 pm »
Maybe it was mineral water?  ;D ;D

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2008, 02:33:52 pm »
yeah mineral spirits.. so the guy at home depot gave me the wrong item... what a surprise, thats why i hate that place.

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2008, 02:54:18 pm »
Maybe it was mineral water?  ;D ;D
   :laugh2:

clickhea

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2008, 02:57:39 pm »
you guys dont realize how many times the cabinet was painted and sanded

honestly about 15 times. and all because the retard working in home depot gave me the wrong item.

i guess now i know for future refrences. :|

HaRuMaN

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2008, 02:58:34 pm »
Wait, you've been using the mineral spirits the whole time??   :o

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2008, 03:08:12 pm »
clickhea, I'd go back and slap that dude upside his head!

Off topic for a min---Your avatar has got to go.. I constantly watch it a bunch of times and laugh to myself everytime george dives out of the way.... just thought I'd share that...

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2008, 05:21:54 pm »
you guys dont realize how many times the cabinet was painted and sanded

honestly about 15 times. and all because the retard working in home depot gave me the wrong item.

i guess now i know for future refrences. :|

That's unbelievable!  It also explains a lot - I was having a hard time imagining someone having this much trouble with the paint - it all makes sense now.  Go finish that cabinet!!!!   :cheers:

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2008, 12:49:51 pm »
A very good additive for latex paints is floetrol.  I had the same brush mark problems when I was painting my cab with a flat black latex paint.  I tried this stuff and it completely eliminated the brush marks.  I painted with those small white rollers from HD.

I know this is my first post but it's not spam.  Do a google search and you'll come up with a lot of hits recommending it.

HaRuMaN

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2008, 12:53:11 pm »
I know this is my first post but it's not spam.  Do a google search and you'll come up with a lot of hits recommending it.

Why would we think it's spam?   ??? 

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Re: [paint] need some serious help
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2008, 01:32:07 pm »
Well, a first post that is essentially an advertisement is usually spam.