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Author Topic: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?  (Read 10030 times)

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Neverending Project

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Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« on: March 24, 2008, 03:59:21 pm »
I might be able to get a Xenon pinball to work on as a restoration project for $300 delivered. It apparently is in poor condition (I haven't seen it), but one of the major reasons the guy thinks it is not worth restoring is because of the playfield. I know that Classic Playfields will be shipping their Xenon playfield in May for $498. In addition to the playfield being thrashed, the guy also mentioned that the legs are bad, coin door is dented, the glass piece on the backglass (not the part with the artwork) is missing, and there is some corrosion on the driver board.

Considering I can get the new repro-playfield, the rest seems like it is restorable. But I have never owned a pinball before, and I am not sure how much I am in for. He hemmed and hawed about the price when I offered him $200 delivered (I know for a fact that he just picked it up for $75) stating that he could sell the backglass alone for $100. I gave him my "I'll give you $200 to deliver today or forget it" line, and 10 minutes after he told me to call back in an hour, he called back to tell me he wanted to part it out.

So I ask you... should I up my price and keep pursuing? I am not even sure it is worth the hassle? Thanks in advance.

ChadTower

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 04:05:19 pm »

Possibly $300 delivered if it is complete and the boards aren't too bad, but part of that price is definitely delivery.  Ask about the score displays, they are a big piece at that price.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 04:08:03 pm »

Possibly $300 delivered if it is complete and the boards aren't too bad, but part of that price is definitely delivery.  Ask about the score displays, they are a big piece at that price.
I think he mentioned that some of the displays needed work. Whether that means they need to be replaced or repaired I am not sure. What if 3 out of 4 need to be replaced?

And I agree about the delivery. Since I only have a mini-van, I would have to pay someone to deliver or rent a truck anyway.

ChadTower

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 04:24:12 pm »
Since I only have a mini-van, I would have to pay someone to deliver or rent a truck anyway.

Why?  Do the seats not come out? 

Neverending Project

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 04:26:53 pm »
Why?  Do the seats not come out? 
They do, but I assumed that either the legs or the backbox would have to be disassembled, or both. I didn't know how much work this would be. This would be, afterall, my first pin.

What about the score displays? Easy to repair? Expensive to replace?

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 04:31:34 pm »

You have to take it off the legs and take the head off to move it anyway.  It's not a lot of work but can be a bit tricky for someone who has never done it before.  Easier with two people but not hard to do alone if you think it through.  I have a couple of 2x4s that are just longer than most pin legs - I prop the machine up on those two in the back, take the legs off, lower it down (kicking out the 2x4s in the process), and then repeat on the other end.

The score displays are old and long obsolete and are just like any other part in that situation.  Not hugely spendy but can add up if you're buying 5 of them.

shardian

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 04:58:21 pm »
Unless Xenon has a huge sentimentality to you, I would advise you to pass.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 05:14:17 pm »
Unless Xenon has a huge sentimentality to you, I would advise you to pass.
She's not. I am just itching to get my first pin, and thought a project machine would be a good intro. And I thought it was pretty timely that this one needs a new playfield, and Xenon happens to be the very next playfield that Classic Playfields will be producing.

Maybe I'll see if he will do $200 if I pick it up. I just find that the pinballs around here seem to be either wildly overpriced, or they go really quick. I also saw a Firepower II in great condition for $850, but that seems overpriced to me.

Meh. I have read that the gameplay on Xenon is only mediocre... hmm.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 05:53:14 pm »
Trashed playfield, board corrosion, displays, legs... plus all the usual stuff.

That's getting pretty close to a part-out machine already (for the record, I *hate* parting any pin, no matter how trashed!).   Be interesting to see what kind of shape the cab paint was in and also see the backglass from the backside.

Could be a fun project however, and it's a great game.  Still I'd say $200 should be the max price.     


D
 

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 06:44:30 pm »

IMO, $300 if you want a Xenon, $200 if you want any pin.

BTW, a large project like that isn't what you want for a first pin.  Get one that either works or is close to it - you don't want to spend 6 months figuring out how to repair your first one.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 06:49:42 pm »

IMO, $300 if you want a Xenon, $200 if you want any pin.

BTW, a large project like that isn't what you want for a first pin.  Get one that either works or is close to it - you don't want to spend 6 months figuring out how to repair your first one.

Let's put it this way, I jumped at the first cheap pin I found at a little under $300. I now have $500 in it total, and it still has plenty of work/ issues to go. To top that off, now that I have experience with pins, I know this is not a pin I want.

I don't get your logic though. You are considering buying a $300 dead pin that will most likely need at least one replacement board, and repairs on the others. The playfield is shot, and you don't have a problem throwing down $500 on a repro playfield. That puts you at almost $1000 once you have this thing in great shape.

Then you find $850 for a good shape firepower to be expensive. Trust me on this: get a pin in good condition, and learn the ropes on a working machine. It is alot less overwhelming and you won't waste time/money fixing a pin you don't really want. Buying 100% working means you can easily offload it and get your money back - sometimes more if you clean it up and find the right seller.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 07:06:48 pm »

To be fair, that $850 Firepower isn't a game with a CPR repro in it.  That makes all the difference once you've seen one in person.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 09:35:50 pm »

To be fair, that $850 Firepower isn't a game with a CPR repro in it.  That makes all the difference once you've seen one in person.
It's a Firepower 2, and you're right. But I am going to try to take a look at it. shardian is right - why would I be OK with spending $800++ on a machine that is bound to have problems (Xenon), and I won't even know if I will like it.

Anyone play Firepower 2 much?

ChadTower

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 09:56:41 pm »

I have - can't say tons of time on it but I did like what I played.  You just can't go wrong with any Sys7.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 10:37:59 pm »
I just talked to the Firepower 2 guy, and someone came by tonight and bought it. So I am officially back on the hunt.

Thanks for all your input.

ChadTower

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2008, 09:07:28 am »

Let us know if you do get that Xenon... I'm in for that playfield but don't have a game to put it in yet.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2008, 09:08:47 am »

Let us know if you do get that Xenon... I'm in for that playfield but don't have a game to put it in yet.

Ummmm, why would you buy a $500 repro playfield for a game you don't even own, especially when you already have countless projects sitting around? Just curious.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2008, 09:11:54 am »

History with repros like these shows that if you want one in the future you have to buy when it comes out.  They go NLA within a short timeframe and the secondary market price goes up at least 50% and often over 100%.  I do want a Xenon, have for quite a while, but have only found one good candidate locally and it sold to someone else.  Worst case scenario, I buy the playfield, never find a Xenon, and sell it for at least what I paid.  Plus this time I probably won't have to ship - I can pick it up.  I'll be up in their area at least once this year.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2008, 09:17:05 am »
Ahh, I see. Might as well go ahead and sell at the rate you get your games running! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

(I only laugh because I'm in the same boat)

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2008, 09:27:05 am »

You're right, too.  I work on too many things in parallel.  That's why I finally decided that on some of this stuff I'm just shipping the electronics off to a pro and doing the short stuff myself, like on Tank II and Asteroids Deluxe.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2008, 12:51:15 pm »
IMO, $300 if you want a Xenon, $200 if you want any pin.

BTW, a large project like that isn't what you want for a first pin.  Get one that either works or is close to it - you don't want to spend 6 months figuring out how to repair your first one.

Well the guy selling the Xenon decided he was going to part it out. It's too bad, because it would have been cool if my first restoration would have kept one more machine in circulation. But it is for the best, I am sure... I talked to another pinball "restorer" in the area and as we got to chatting he mentioned that there were a couple of people to avoid. The one name he gave was the guy with the Xenon. I did get a bad overall vibe from him.

So this guy I talked to this morning has a few mid-90's games for sale (Judge Dredd, Breakshot, Bram Stoker's Dracula), but I'm not sure I want a $1200 pinball for my first machine. He also said he has a Panthera which needs some work, and he would sell for around $300.

He mentioned that Gottlieb System 80 are good systems to work on as your first project because there is lots of documentation available. I didn't get the feeling that he was trying to sell me on anything, but I just wanted a reality check. Does anyone think this might make a good first pin?

Thanks again.

ChadTower

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2008, 02:03:59 pm »

It's probably as good as any, but be aware, there is lots of documentation on pretty much all pinball systems at this point.

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Re: Is a Xenon project pinball worth $300?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2008, 04:09:17 pm »
He mentioned that Gottlieb System 80 are good systems to work on as your first project because there is lots of documentation available. I didn't get the feeling that he was trying to sell me on anything, but I just wanted a reality check. Does anyone think this might make a good first pin?


80x games aren't documented any better or worse than Williams, Bally or Stern.  They are all very well documented!  I should note that Gottlieb still enforces copyrights, so scans of manuals for specific titles are not readily available for download.  However they are available for sale at Pinball Resource, and if you are going to own any pin, a paper copy of the manual is well worth it's small cost.


Many collectors turn a nose up at Sys80x machines and will tell you the electronics suck.  In reality, the electronics aren't any better or worse than any other platform in that era.   Where Gottlieb went skimpy was with the boot diagnostics, so if you have a board that doesn't boot fully, the machine won't tell you where to start looking (as other platforms usually did with LED's and such).  Add to that some inherent grounding problems and the 80x systems got an undeserved bad rep.

The very good news is that shoring up the grounds is very well documented along with troubleshooting the boards.  IMO once you understand the principals of the board design, working on them is quite straighforward.   Once the grounds are fixed and a few other minor mods done these systems are very reliable.

The other good news is because of this undeserved bad rep,  Sys 80x machines can usually be had for very reasonable prices.

D

« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 04:13:12 pm by D_Zoot »