Should admitted scammers be allowed back on forum?

[WunderCade]

This is just something that struck me since I see DenverLatino posting everywhere. It's as if the people who he scammed on the board should just "forget about it" the way he goes on like no biggie "just get over it, I'm sorry."

Should anything be done in this circumstance, or let by-gones be by-gones until if or when he does it again? Is it simply that the scammed haven't requested action yet?

 

[patrickl]

Yeah that did surprise me a bit too yes. On the other hand, didn't he make amends with the people he scammed?

[Grasshopper]

I don't have any problem with it as long as he's paid back the money he owes in full. If that's the case then his apology is probably sincere and we should let bygones be bygones.

However, if he hasn't paid back the money then his apology does ring a bit hollow. I'm not sure how practical it is to ban him though. Couldn't he just log on again under a different name?

[ChadTower]

Yeah that did surprise me a bit too yes. On the other hand, didn't he make amends with the people he scammed?

Nope.  Goz says, in that thread, that the guy never did make it right.

[saint]

If someone is actively scamming people (Harpal) I'm fine with kicking them out. If it's not quite as cut and dry as that case, I think there's some value in leaving them here so there's still a line of communication. <shrug> Opinions?

[WunderCade]

Good point Saint, it leaves the possibility of recouping the funds open. Then I'd guess that the person owed could make a formal request to be "made whole" by DenverLatino.

[ark_ader]

This is just something that struck me since I see DenverLatino posting everywhere. It's as if the people who he scammed on the board should just "forget about it" the way he goes on like no biggie "just get over it, I'm sorry."

Should anything be done in this circumstance, or let by-gones be by-gones until if or when he does it again? Is it simply that the scammed haven't requested action yet?

 

Man, you are like a dog with its bone.

Leave him alone and let it go.   

[ChadTower]

If someone is actively scamming people (Harpal) I'm fine with kicking them out. If it's not quite as cut and dry as that case, I think there's some value in leaving them here so there's still a line of communication. <shrug> Opinions?

I think it's folly to allow them to continue trying to sell items.

[shardian]

Well he can always go sell over at KLOV. The mods there don't mind repeat scammers.

[ChadTower]

The community here is pretty self regulating.  Even as it is now, if saint were to choose to continue letting him be, this guy isn't ever going to make a FS thread that doesn't get marked over and over again as a scammer.

[patrickl]

This is just something that struck me since I see DenverLatino posting everywhere. It's as if the people who he scammed on the board should just "forget about it" the way he goes on like no biggie "just get over it, I'm sorry."

Should anything be done in this circumstance, or let by-gones be by-gones until if or when he does it again? Is it simply that the scammed haven't requested action yet?

 

Man, you are like a dog with its bone.

Leave him alone and let it go.   

Talk about letting something go. You are responding to a two week old post

[ark_ader]

I'm kinda busy and I do nt frequent this side of the board much. 

But for you Pat I'll add it on to my " when its raining outside to-do list".

I read the guy's apology in BST - he sounded sincere and was nice of him to apologise.

Takes guts to apologise - something most of the members here, when they are wrong,  fail to have.

[saint]

He may have apologized and sounded sincere, but has not as of yet made good on his failed transaction with Goz that I'm aware of.

[CheffoJeffo]

Let's not forget that he didn't admit his wrong-doing and apologize until he was caught and cornered -- he did not come forward on his own and I suspect that he never would have if he had not been caught (he has been using the second alias, and had failed deals under that same alias, for quite some time).

That is a VERY different situation from what ark_ader is suggesting.

[shardian]

Let's not forget that he didn't admit his wrong-doing and apologize until he was caught and cornered -- he did not come forward on his own and I suspect that he never would have if he had not been caught (he has been using the second alias, and had failed deals under that same alias, for quite some time).

That is a VERY different situation from what ark_ader is suggesting.

He only came forward because he was wanting to make a quick buck by ripping off more people with a new scam.

[Goz]

Let's not forget that he didn't admit his wrong-doing and apologize until he was caught and cornered -- he did not come forward on his own and I suspect that he never would have if he had not been caught (he has been using the second alias, and had failed deals under that same alias, for quite some time).

That is a VERY different situation from what ark_ader is suggesting.

He only came forward because he was wanting to make a quick buck by ripping off more people with a new scam.

He only came forward because I mentioned something about him on another forum and Saint cornered him.

And no he still hasn't made things right.

[Denverlatino]

First, I'm not trying to steal anyones money, the reason i had to apologise wait until i was cornered was because i was afraid of all the talking here, i could just run again but i didn't, instead i realised hat it was time to do what it was right , i can perfectly understand people don't trust in me, but hope i can earn another reputation in the future, that's why I'm still here, i have not paid Goz Cu's here in Mexico 50 bucks its a 3rd part of my salary, plus if you add to that  i was involved in a car accident that got me into a few weeks in jail that makes more difficult for me. I offered Goz another deal i can really do any time, but he refused to accepted but he still accepts the board that he wants, so has soon as i can ill pay him back.
Looks like I'm crossing on a bad luck moment of my life that I'm pretty sure it will pass by, the only good thing that happens too me lately was my new baby  that his 5 months old now, even some times i don't even have any money for diapers and milk, he still offers me that beautiful smile i carry with me on a picture.
So please, don't be so hard with people, no everyone its a scam, and even scamers can redeem themselves. w.w.j.d. 

[dstone]

To be blunt, you sound like those people that are always trying to hit me up for $5 at a gas station.

[Cakemeister]

To be blunt, you sound like those people that are always trying to hit me up for $5 at a gas station.

Hmmm....

Got into a car wreck.... check.
Has a new baby......check
Was in jail.......check
No money to repay Goz......check
Invoking religious beliefs.........check

You're right.

[patrickl]

Looks like I'm crossing on a bad luck moment of my life that I'm pretty sure it will pass by

If you wonder why all this bad stuff is happening to you, you should watch the TV show "My name is Earl".

[Denverlatino]

Looks like I'm crossing on a bad luck moment of my life that I'm pretty sure it will pass by

If you wonder why all this bad stuff is happening to you, you should watch the TV show "My name is Earl".

that must be it, ill start my new list right away 

[Goz]

The other deal offered in place of the working Caveman Ninja board that I turned down is for a non working Pac Man board.

hmmm no brainer.....

[WunderCade]

Might I suggest, DenverLatino, that you simply list a bunch of stuff for sale and then when your Paypal account hits $50.00, send Goz his refund. That way...you can't complain about the money coming from out of your pocket.

Surely, you'll find an excuse not to do it though. Am I right?

[Goz]

I honestly don't ever expect him to make things right. I've given him several additional months.

Should admitted scammers aka DenverLatino be allowed on the forum?

[ark_ader]

Might I suggest, DenverLatino, that you simply list a bunch of stuff for sale and then when your Paypal account hits $50.00, send Goz his refund. That way...you can't complain about the money coming from out of your pocket.

Surely, you'll find an excuse not to do it though. Am I right?

Gee what is $50 to you guys compared to this guy whos hurting for money.  Just let him have it.  Heck I was at the supermarket the other day, and someone didn't have enough money to pay for all her food.  I asked if I could pay for it, cost me $67 and I treated it just normal.  Am I rich? No.  I just give and be thankful for what I have.

You have to stop with this $50 bickering.  Leave the guy alone and next time don't be so gullible.  I believe it is better to give than to receive.  Think how lucky you are to afford $50 in the first place.

Shame on you.

Again:   


I'll vouch for $15 for the outstanding monies owed if Saint makes up the remaining $35.  He is rich anyways, unless anyone else wants to contribute.......

Then maybe we will have an end to this lunacy?

[saint]

Count me out. I'm as willing to help out someone in need as the next guy - this is not that kind of situation. Not only count me out on contributing, I don't want any part of the deal whatsoever.

[CheffoJeffo]

You have to stop with this $50 bickering.  Leave the guy alone and next time don't be so gullible.  I believe it is better to give than to receive.  Think how lucky you are to afford $50 in the first place.

Shame on you.

Again:   

I'll vouch for $15 for the outstanding monies owed if Saint makes up the remaining $35.  He is rich anyways, unless anyone else wants to contribute.......

Then maybe we will have an end to this lunacy?

ark -- did you actually read what happened, or are you just throwing out your blanket of moral superiority to make yourself feel good ?

There is a big difference between not being able to afford groceries and having somebody help you out and going out and actively cheating people, then trying to come back into the community under a different guise to potentially do the same thing again.

I am only too happy to help out people in need, but that desire does not extend to people who deceive and cheat others.  If I thought for a second that the $50 was terribly important to Goz, I would have already sent it ... he was one of the first folks I ever dealt with in the community and is a genuine asshat, if not a friend.

 

[ark_ader]

Count me out. I'm as willing to help out someone in need as the next guy - this is not that kind of situation. Not only count me out on contributing, I don't want any part of the deal whatsoever.

You can only offer.  I understand exactly how you feel, and it was a good gesture towards Goz and his loss of funds.  If he wishes, he can PM me with his email and I will send him the $15 towards DenverLatino's debt.

Anyone who has done misdeeds in the past and wants to be forgiven, should not be isolated.  Let him make up the misdeed, and if he tries it again, then isolate him.  My faith dictates that I should forgive, and in the long run it has not failed me.

This hobby is mostly dependent on trust.  I sell or buy something on Ebay or through the B/S/T I expect the other guy to be as honest as me.  Luckily I have not been burnt yet, and my customers have nothing but praise on their behalf.

Moral trumpet Jeffo?  No.  But I did at least offer help to a member who was cheated, and would do again if the seriousness of the issue presented itself.  I only included Saint, as it is his board, and to give him the opportunity to help also.

I still think you guys need to give Denverlatino a break and let this matter go.

[AtomSmasher]

Anyone who has done misdeeds in the past and wants to be forgiven, should not be isolated.  Let him make up the misdeed, and if he tries it again, then isolate him.  My faith dictates that I should forgive, and in the long run it has not failed me.

This hobby is mostly dependent on trust.  I sell or buy something on Ebay or through the B/S/T I expect the other guy to be as honest as me.  Luckily I have not been burnt yet, and my customers have nothing but praise on their behalf.

Theres a difference between forgiveness and trust, they do not go hand in hand.  If he only wanted to come back to the forums to learn and share experiences, then there wouldn't be an issue, but he wants to come back and sell stuff again.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

[AtomSmasher]

Heck I was at the supermarket the other day, and someone didn't have enough money to pay for all her food.  I asked if I could pay for it, cost me $67 and I treated it just normal.  Am I rich? No.  I just give and be thankful for what I have.

A while back I was at the gas station and a man came up to me and asked for some change to buy food because he hadn't eaten in days.  I didn't have any money on me, but I had just stopped by the grocery store, so I gave him a loaf of bread and lunch meat.  As I was pulling out of the gas station I saw him in my mirror throw the food in the garbage.  True story.

[ark_ader]

I know I get that all the time.  I live in Las Vegas where begging is now considered an art.

When they come up to me, I ask them to join me at the nearest 7-11 or McDonalds where I would buy them a complete meal, made sure they had change for the phone and give them the number to the closest shelter.

My brother and his wife, along with their church feed the homeless every month, as each church takes their turn to spread the word and help them with food, clothing and advice.

I do not think that scammers (the minority of people here in Vegas) are truly evil.  They are people who are on hard times, forced to commit acts to survive.  But it takes a good person to know what evils they have done to others, and try to repay those who had been treated badly by them.

With the economy souring, I'm sure we will see some decent people slide down the wrong path.  Just protect yourself and use your common sense.  Just remember how lucky you are, and how easy it is to lose it all.   

[saint]

You are missing something here Ark -- you're preaching to the choir about forgiveness and second chances and such. I think my track record speaks for itself there. In this case, however, I have no faith that Denver_Latino is making a genuine attempt to reform. He was here previously and had bad transactions, and was banned. He returned under a different name, and rather than coming forward asking for forgiveness and attempting to make things right, he started attempting to sell again with no mention of his past. No attempt to correct past mistakes. It was only when I was alerted to the situation and called him out on it that he admitted it. This is not the behavior of someone who has seen the light and wishes to mend his ways and make amends. After being called out on it, he professed his intent to make good and then did not, with a variety of reasons and excuses. That's at least 2 opportunities, possibly 3, for him to do the right thing but he did not.

I simply do not believe he has good intentions. 

[TOK]

If he had any honor or intention of paying anything back, he could have sent 5 bucks a month and probably covered what he owed Goz by now. If he was too broke to do that, he'd be too broke to have internet access.

Saint is very diplomatic. I would have made his his sig say "DON'T TRUST ME, I AM A LYING, THIEVING SCUMBAG!" in 30 point type.

[CheffoJeffo]

If he had any honor or intention of paying anything back, he could have sent 5 bucks a month and probably covered what he owed Goz by now. If he was too broke to do that, he'd be too broke to have internet access.

And too broke to build a MAME cab, a project which, IIRC, he was posting about here.

[WunderCade]

Just remember how lucky you are, and how easy it is to lose it all.   

This line, every time I hear it, really causes me to cringe. And it always comes from the usual suspects.

I've never seen "luck" solve any crisis situation I've ever been in. I've never relied on luck to pay my bills, nor have I used luck to feed my family. But sure enough, there's always one --meecrob-- around to tell me and other hard working people how "lucky" we are.

Gimme a break.

[Hemi]

Should admitted scammers aka DenverLatino be allowed on the forum?

hmmm no brainer.....

[ChadTower]

Admitted scammers should be left alone in a room with Frizz when he's really hungry.

[Hemi]

I'm not sure why this is even up for discussion. The guy screwed over a few members and as far as what I've read by others on here, he admitted it. You can't just forgive a guy who gave you a bunch of excuses and and did not hold up his end of the deal.

If it were me, I would not allow this guy to be here and post until the party who was scammed says the guy came through on his end of the deal. It would be a shame if this guy were to somehow strike-up another deal with another of the forums members and us knowing exactly what this guy is all about, did nothing to prevent another scam.

Don't we have a responsibility to do everything we can to protect the forum? Sometimes making his name known is not enough.

[channelmaniac]

DenverLatino can ship me the non-working Pac board and I'll send $30 to Goz for him. Gets me a board to repair... and helps him to get out of the hole with Goz.

Granted, he'll have to ship first since he has a scammer badge attached to him.

RJ