MvC2 machine

[yeaayeahh]

Hi all.  I'm currently thinking of building a Marvel vs Capcom 2 arcade machine for my friend's comic shop and selling/renting it to him.  From my understanding, if I want a coin machine to work, I need to have it hooked up to a PC through a UGCI and would not be able to function through a Dreamcast or Xbox.  So I've made a list of what I will need to create this arcade machine:

Lumber/metal as needed
monitor
computer
emulator
original copy of the game (to avoid copywrite infringement)
2 player arcade stick
UGCI (http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/950800xx.htm
speakers

I wish to stay 100% legal, so please do not get deterred by my use of the word emulator.  So are there other legal issues as far as concept art goes that is on the arcade machine itself?  Is it even possible to force Marvel vs Capcom 2 to accept coins before gameplay is available?  Any help is very appreciated

[javeryh]

I wish to stay 100% legal

Then I'd abandon this project if I were you.  Just because you buy one copy of the game does not give you the right to charge money to others to play it. 

[yeaayeahh]

Then I'd abandon this project if I were you.  Just because you buy one copy of the game does not give you the right to charge money to others to play it. 

Well, then what would I have to go through to be able to do this?  And also, that wouldn't really be on my part, would it?  I'm not charging anyone to play the machine, the owner of the store would.  I would just charge the store owner for the rent/purchase of the machine, not the fee for the store's customers.

[javeryh]

Then I'd abandon this project if I were you.  Just because you buy one copy of the game does not give you the right to charge money to others to play it. 

Well, then what would I have to go through to be able to do this?  And also, that wouldn't really be on my part, would it?  I'm not charging anyone to play the machine, the owner of the store would.  I would just charge the store owner for the rent/purchase of the machine, not the fee for the store's customers.

You'd have to get a license from Capcom since they are the copyright holder.  Also, it doesn't matter that you aren't actually charging any of the store's customers - you are charging rent/selling the copyrighted game to your friend (among other things).  You would both be infringing on Capcom's copyright!   

I'm not telling you to not do it or that you would ever get caught or found out but you said you wanted to keep it 100% legal so just know from the start that it's not.  I'd still like to see you build this cabinet though.   

[yeaayeahh]

You'd have to get a license from Capcom since they are the copyright holder.

Well then, would they even give me a license to sell their product?  I assume at this point that I would have to become more of a company and sell multiple machines to multiple shops rather than just me selling a machine to a store, that's if I understand the whole license thing.  From my interpretation, the license would be something that says I can sell MvC2 machines to people, rather than a license for each individual one?  Kind of like a drivers license where you can drive any car rather than having a drivers license for each individual car?  Please correct me if I'm wrong, I admit I know little to nothing about the legal side of this.

I'm not telling you to not do it or that you would ever get caught or found out but you said you wanted to keep it 100% legal so just know from the start that it's not.  I'd still like to see you build this cabinet though.   

Trust me, I will build this cabinet, take many pictures through the process, and update everyone, whether or not I can legally sell the machine.  I'll just keep it for personal use if the selling part of this dream falls through

[javeryh]

You'd have to get a license from Capcom since they are the copyright holder.

Well then, would they even give me a license to sell their product?  I assume at this point that I would have to become more of a company and sell multiple machines to multiple shops rather than just me selling a machine to a store, that's if I understand the whole license thing.  From my interpretation, the license would be something that says I can sell MvC2 machines to people, rather than a license for each individual one?  Kind of like a drivers license where you can drive any car rather than having a drivers license for each individual car?  Please correct me if I'm wrong, I admit I know little to nothing about the legal side of this.

Nope.  Well, it would depend on the terms of the license I suppose.  Either way, Capcom isn't about to give you one any time soon.  I'm sure if your friend wanted to have the machine in his store he could go through the proper channels and get an actual MvC2 cabinet.  He would probably need a permit of some kind from the city to have a coin-op machine on location but that's a whole different topic.

When you have a copyright on something you actually have a "bundle of rights" which prevent others from doing something with your work.   If I remember correctly, you can control copying/reproduction, distribution, public performance, public display and the preparation of a derivative work.  In order to do any of this stuff with a copyrighted work you need a license (permission) from the copyright holder to do so.  I think by building a MvC2 cab you are violating every single one of those rights!

I'm not telling you to not do it or that you would ever get caught or found out but you said you wanted to keep it 100% legal so just know from the start that it's not.  I'd still like to see you build this cabinet though.   

Trust me, I will build this cabinet, take many pictures through the process, and update everyone, whether or not I can legally sell the machine.  I'll just keep it for personal use if the selling part of this dream falls through

Sweet!  I look forward to seeing some progress!  Don't let me deter you. 

[yeaayeahh]

Nope.  Well, it would depend on the terms of the license I suppose.  Either way, Capcom isn't about to give you one any time soon.  I'm sure if your friend wanted to have the machine in his store he could go through the proper channels and get an actual MvC2 cabinet.  He would probably need a permit of some kind from the city to have a coin-op machine on location but that's a whole different topic.

Well, he currently has a Korean version of Marvel Super Heroes, but don't quote me on that.  I know though he has a Korean/Chinese/Japanese version of some Marvel game   I haven't taken enough interest in that machine to remember much about it   So I don't think the coin-op machine permit is an issue for him, unless he's already violating that :O

So aside from selling it, would my list of mats be correct?  I would prefer the game to autoboot on the computer instead of going through some OS and run the game, as to give it somewhat of a more official feel.  I'm so concerned about that, just mostly having the parts needed lined out so I can get an estimate on cost.

Lumber/metal as needed
monitor
computer
emulator
original copy of the game (to avoid copywrite infringement)
2 player arcade stick
UGCI (http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/950800xx.htm)
speakers

[jeffhlewis]

I really don't think there's any way to control coindrop from a DC/PS2 console version of the game, outside of some crazy heavy modification of system or game logic (maybe some device that would limit the number of times you could hit the start button? I dunno).

In the end, it will seriously probably cost less for you to just buy a MvC2 machine and rent/sell it to your friend, or acquire a JAMMA cabinet and a Naomi motherboard & kit and put the two together.

But don't let that stop you from actually building one for yourself 

[yeaayeahh]

I really don't think there's any way to control coindrop from a DC/PS2 console version of the game, outside of some crazy heavy modification of system or game logic (maybe some device that would limit the number of times you could hit the start button? I dunno).

In the end, it will seriously probably cost less for you to just buy a MvC2 machine and rent/sell it to your friend, or acquire a JAMMA cabinet and a Naomi motherboard & kit and put the two together.

But don't let that stop you from actually building one for yourself 

Well, it's been quite a long time since I've had a copy of MvC2 in my possession, but I'm almost positive I remember seeing the "Insert Coin" message blinking at the bottom of the screen, but feel free to correct me on that.

After thinking about this, unless the game has an actual "arcade" function where if you hit start it goes into the character select screen, it wouldn't work with this game   Let's say I change the signal the coin machine sends to the computer from "he put in a quarter" to "he hit start" and just not have a start button, it would then go into the menu which contains options and vs mode (which would be free for 2 people then :X).  So I guess this dream did kind of just die out =/  But I'll probably just build a DDR machine instead unless someone can point me in the direction of a work-around.

[Organic Jerk]

I don't think that "coin for start" thing would work, since that means that you would need to put in a coin for every instance that start would be needed that may not even be in the arcade version, like menus and such...

Not only that, but essentially all it takes is one coin to be able to play forever, because one you "press start", you have access to everything until you exit the game menu entirely...

If you want to build a cabinet for a specific game for coins, why not find and buy the actual arcade board?  much less hassle, no?

[yeaayeahh]

If you want to build a cabinet for a specific game for coins, why not find and buy the actual arcade board?  much less hassle, no?

Correct - much less hassle.  I would love to cut that big corner, but the problem is it's very hard (for me at least) to find a MvC2 arcade board and would be much easier to buy MvC2 for DC for maybe $20 and building a custom PC and run the game on an emulator.  Yeah, the pricing may be more for the PC, it may be less, but that's the only option I've really come across =/

[Malenko]

buy a dreamcast buy the game, wire the controls to dream cast controllers (or have haruman do it) and thats it, the game would act like its on free play; no coin slots needed.

if you want to build a cab for the purpose of making money on coin drops, the only legal option you have is to buy the arcade board set

The Game on EBAY   

+

The NAOMI Motherboard on Ebay

EDIT: Bad Link Fu

[yeaayeahh]

if you want to build a cab for the purpose of making money on coin drops, the only legal option you have is to buy the arcade board set

The Game on EBAY   

+

The NAOMI Motherboard on Ebay

So, this is the arcade version of the game?  And if I make a machine with this in it, I don't need to obtain a license from Capcom?  Or would I still need to get it licensed or certified or something?  What about concept art no the machine itself?  Does the art need to be identical to the actual art or would it matter if I use imagery from my own sources?

[Malenko]

that stuff is what goes in a regular arcade cab; owning the actual (READ: NOT BOOTLEG) boards/games is licensed  for profit by capcom.

The art, I dont know; I think putting game related art on the cab would be fine and capcom is more worried about copyright in fringement of their games then someone decorating a cab differently then normal.

just to be clear,those links are to the guts of an old MvC2 arcade cab, and would be perfectly legal to put into an arcade cabinet for the purpose of making money.

[yeaayeahh]

just to be clear,those links are to the guts of an old MvC2 arcade cab, and would be perfectly legal to put into an arcade cabinet for the purpose of making money.

So then, those two things are all I would need as far as the game would go?  Would I need any special cables to hook those up into a TV and Controller?

I also was thinking about how the Dreamcast version doesn't have an Arcade feature, making the coin function invalid.  Well, we could rent the machine out to birthday parties or some kind of event along the lines.  To get a second rate guitarist to play for an hour at a birthday party is $400 in my area.  An arcade machine for a bunch of screaming 8 year old boys should definitely be close to that I would think.

As far as the art goes, I think my friend would want to draw the concept art and use that to somewhat of an advertisement.  He's starting this project with a writer and they are creating a Transformers comic.  He's definitely at a professional drawing level, and it may be good to put his own art to make it more public and stuffz.  As long as Capcom wouldn't have a problem with him creating art with their characters, that's probably what will happen.

[Cameronj]

I would say that you ought to just buy a JAMMA cabinet and a real JAMMA board. Then customize the machine to your liking. That is about the only way to make it legal.

There are commercial versions of arcade legends out there too that would be 100% legal.  You could do your own art package on top.


Capcom would have a problem with using the artwork in a commercial setting .

[Axe]

I have to agree with Cam here, the only really "legal" option is to get a jamma board and build a cabinet with a Jamma harness.

As for the rate you mention, a musician (even second rate) is an "active" entertainer, adaptable and able to (theoretically) entertain a large groupa t once.

A game that would have kids fighting over who was next, and complaining that thye have more modern games at home??? that seems a little steep.

Just me,
 YMMV

[Oni2382]

If this guys is a very good friend of yours, just build the cab, and get the Dreamcast version of MvC2 and sell it to him for a flat price. Don't worry about trying to charge people to play it, everyone in the end will get more enjoyment out of it.

But if you must charge then I suggest you find a cheaper game than MvC2. It's RIDICULOUSLY priced and very expensive to find all the parts you need (Naomi board, I/O converter, PCB, PSU etc.)   Shoot for either Captain America and the Avengers, the simpsons or the original X men side scroller. You can charge to play and still have comic book characters which is the theme your going for and ultimately the customers in his establishment will get more enjoyment out of the 4p games instead.

[jeffhlewis]

Just an aside, but do kids even understand what an arcade game is anymore? Would they play it?  I mean MvC2 is fun and all but it doesn't change that fact that it's almost a 10 year old game.  You might as well put an X360 in the cab with Call of Duty or something.

[Organic Jerk]

 Shoot for either Captain America and the Avengers, the simpsons or the original X men side scroller. You can charge to play and still have comic book characters which is the theme your going for and ultimately the customers in his establishment will get more enjoyment out of the 4p games instead.

I doubt this would work at all.  It's not just about the comic theme here.... Most of the people that would shell out coin after coin to play Marvel vs Capcom 2 would never even touch Captain America and the Avengers...

[Oni2382]

 Shoot for either Captain America and the Avengers, the simpsons or the original X men side scroller. You can charge to play and still have comic book characters which is the theme your going for and ultimately the customers in his establishment will get more enjoyment out of the 4p games instead.

I doubt this would work at all.  It's not just about the comic theme here.... Most of the people that would shell out coin after coin to play Marvel vs Capcom 2 would never even touch Captain America and the Avengers...

Do you know for fact that the customers in this comic shop want a MvC2 machine in there? NO you don't. yeaayeahh  chose this game based on wide appeal, so we have no clue as to what would or would not work.


And for the record. I have the Captain America PCB and I play MvC2 on a regular basis along with most of the gamers in my area (va.) Gamers in their 20's (raises hand) who grew up on all those side scrolling beat em ups didn't have MvC2 back then, so there is a loyal fan base to these type of games regardless of what's out now.

[rockin_rick]

Not sure what your local laws are, but since you are striving for 100% legal...  If you're charging for plays, then you'll (your friend) will also need a tax 'stamp' (or whatnot).  I'd think that this is your no.1 concern regarding legality of a coin operated amusement device.  Not sure how much those cost, but considering the amount of plays vs. the cost of the tax vs. the cost of the electricity to run it = might not be making any money.  This is, after all, why you don't see arcade machines around much anymore.  Like oni2382 said, perhaps the best bet is to use a dreamcast, don't charge for plays, and get the return in happy customers (lol, I'm sure that there's a clever marketing term for this...)

Rick

[SithMaster]

Not sure what your local laws are, but since you are striving for 100% legal...  If you're charging for plays, then you'll (your friend) will also need a tax 'stamp' (or whatnot).  I'd think that this is your no.1 concern regarding legality of a coin operated amusement device.  Not sure how much those cost, but considering the amount of plays vs. the cost of the tax vs. the cost of the electricity to run it = might not be making any money.  This is, after all, why you don't see arcade machines around much anymore.  Like oni2382 said, perhaps the best bet is to use a dreamcast, don't charge for plays, and get the return in happy customers (lol, I'm sure that there's a clever marketing term for this...)

Rick

I want to say that would be creating goodwill towards the customers but I'm not sure.  Anyway the guy mentioned another machine in the store already so I imagine a profit is being made and if not just hook up a dreamcast to that.  Also I wouldn't worry about building the cab so much as getting the game working.  Any cab can be used so I'd try and find one for cheap to use.