Control Panel Limitations *** 3 designs to choose from - opinions please

[ex_directory]

I would like to add a 2.25" trackball and possibly a spinner to my CP, problem is my CP is about the same size as a Centipede CP, 170mm by 660mm (6.5" x 26"), in reality the max usable space is 15cm deep.

Here is a pic of the top.


Here is a pic of the bottom, I have mounted my IPAC below the CP to gain space.


Side shot showing reduced depth.


The problem is in that using a trackball mounting plate that means I can't use any of the middle 15cm for any other buttons so the 1p/2p buttons will need to move left or right and obviously there is no space for the spinner.

At the moment I would be prepared to lose the spinner if I could get the trackball in.

Has anyone had similar problems which they have solved? Or any suggestions would be helpful.

Can I buy a trackball mount and then chop off the top and bottom so it is the same diamond shape as the trackball? Or otherwise fit it without a mounting plate?

Also, is there some way of assigning a couple of buttons to be mouse clicks with an IPAC?

Ex

[paigeoliver]

With what you have going there I would suggest skipping the trackball. You could get a spinner in there decently, particularly if you got another piece of wood and moved your player 1 and player 2 controls right to the edge of the panels, but a trackball on that machine had problems beyond mere fit, it would be fine for slow trackball games like centipede or millipede, but more trackball games that require more high speed trackball action wouldn't work very well, you would be impacting the player 2 joy and the monitor glass far too often.

That fancy Ipac shelf you have going there is costing you some width that could be certainly used for a spinner or also used with a trackball (with the disclaimer that it is going to be a hand banger). Move the Ipac elsewhere in the cabinet and gain 1.5" of space between those controls.

If you REALLY want a trackball then reversing the player 2 layout to go right handed joystick would gain you some serious trackball clearance, at the cost of making player 2 a MUCH suckier position to play from.

[ex_directory]

If anything happy to lose the spinner, but since cab gets a lot of use for non-arcade stuff too want to have the mouse option on the CP - currently the bottom angular shelf (see first pic above) folds down to reveal a pull out keyb and mouse which can be a pain.

The IPAC shelf came later after deciding the position of the joys, I have a lip on the side of my CP (see first pic again) and hence did not want controls to near the sides but you are right that real estate could be used by shifting the controls slightly wider, a new design for the ipac position is the easy part.

If I can mount the trackball without the trackball mount I think it is do-able. I see Andy Warne has a new wood panel mounted trackball on the way but looks to be 3" only.

Another option would be to go 4 button in this shape


Any experience on this - what are the downsides?

[Franco B]

Another option would be to go 4 button in this shape


Any experience on this - what are the downsides?

The obvious disadvantage is that you wont be able to play SF2, MK etc or other games that need more than 4 buttons. It depends if you can live withoiut those games, I personally couldnt. You also have to think about what people want to play when they come to yours, i would guess that 90% of the time SF2 would want to be one of the five games they want to play first.

I would suggest making a new panel with 6 buttons per player and a spinner in and then make an extension for the trackball, if done correctly it will look decent. The extension would give you room to mount the trackball in and also give you the extra spin room for Golden Tee etc.

[ex_directory]

OK, taken on board suggestions so far... also found a great limited CP design post with a trackball by csa3d here...

Without a mount I think I can get it in...



Underneath would look like this...



No room for spinner and no obvious room for mouse buttons without it looking ugly so far though.

[Franco B]

Have you thought about putting your start/admin etc buttons on the front of the panel? That would give you a little more room and make it look less cramped.

[surface tension]

With careful button selection, you can combine mouse buttons with arcade controls...

[ex_directory]

Franco, as you know that would make the CP less hot-swappable (even though I know I will only have one CP!)

st, how is this possible?

[Franco B]

Well you could either wire up a D sub connector or similar for those few buttons or a more simpler (but longer swapping) option would be to use bullet connectors for the individual buttons.

Either way shouldnt add more than a minute for the swap, the d sub would be the better option as it would only take a couple of seconds.

[metaHipster]

a hot swappable modular control panel may be another thing to consider.
http://beersmith.com/mame/controls.htm

at the very least, check out how he uses ethernet (RJ45) plugs & jacks for super fast/easy CP swapping.

[Zobeid]

Another option would be to go 4 button in this shape


Any experience on this - what are the downsides?

That's exactly the button layout that I'm shooting for.

Advantages. . .   It allows your hand to approach the joystick from a wide range of angles without bumping into any buttons.  There's also one button (the leftmost) that you can hit fairly easily with your joystick hand if necessary -- this would be useful for playing Defender (reverse button) or Battlezone (fire button) as examples.  If you have another control in between the sticks (in my case it'll be a spinner) then it gives good clearance for that too.

I think this layout makes it easier to remember which button is which during gameplay, but maybe that's just me.  For one-button games, you can use the lower button.  For two button games, use the left and right buttons.

And finally, this layout is the only really proper way to play Vanguard or Space Zap.

Disadvantages?  Well, as others have pointed out. . .  You can't play those ugly "beat em up" games that the young whippersnappers seem to like, heaven knows why they do.

[Ian]

Take a look at this for any ideas.

http://dmatanski.deviantart.com/gallery/

other than that, I don't see a very comfortable solution unless you want to have some sort of extension.

[ex_directory]

Well you could either wire up a D sub connector or similar for those few buttons or a more simpler (but longer swapping) option would be to use bullet connectors for the individual buttons.

Either way shouldnt add more than a minute for the swap, the d sub would be the better option as it would only take a couple of seconds.

Is the way to do this take a vga extender (male and female ends), chop in two and then connect bare wires accordingly or is there more to it?

Ian, great link, how does he get the buttons so close to the trackball in this CP - or is it just an optical illusion 

[BASS!]

OK, taken on board suggestions so far... also found a great limited CP design post with a trackball by csa3d here...

Without a mount I think I can get it in...



Underneath would look like this...



No room for spinner and no obvious room for mouse buttons without it looking ugly so far though.

I would look into a smaller trackball (other then the happ 3") Like the happ 1.5" and then you could use a turbotwist spinner, which has an extremely small footprint.

[paigeoliver]

Front of the panel admin buttons on that style of cabinet are a mistake, they constantly get bumped into during gameplay.

[Franco B]

Is the way to do this take a vga extender (male and female ends), chop in two and then connect bare wires accordingly or is there more to it?

Yep, thats probably the easiest way. You can also buy the d sub connectors from Maplins etc and wire them yourself. If you are running power to LEDs etc I would advise wiring your own.

Link for D subs. They also sell the hoods etc too.

[Franco B]

Front of the panel admin buttons on that style of cabinet are a mistake, they constantly get bumped into during gameplay.

Thats a good point. Although I don't think I ever bumped into my upright whilst playing, you wouldn't want to accidentally exit a game when going for a high score.

I think you would still be ok with start buttons on the front of the CP. You could use shifted buttons for everything else.

[surface tension]

st, how is this possible?

The two keys I found that don't interfere with Windows in any way are F9 and F12. So, connecting the two mouse buttons to these, whilst having them wired for use in MAME should give you no problems. You're obviously working with a non-standard MAME key config now, but changing the keys in MAME is straight forward.

[ex_directory]

How do you map F9 to say left click. I know Windows has the built in accessibility feature to use the numeric keypad as the mouse (press left alt, left shift and numlock). So presumably to do this with other keys I need some 3rd party software?

st, how is this possible?

The two keys I found that don't interfere with Windows in any way are F9 and F12. So, connecting the two mouse buttons to these, whilst having them wired for use in MAME should give you no problems. You're obviously working with a non-standard MAME key config now, but changing the keys in MAME is straight forward.

[ex_directory]

As well as the bump issue, I also have a feeling the buttons on the front will look slightly out of place. But I will go for this if I can't find a way to get it all on the CP nicely.

Got an email back from GGG, apparently the size of the 2.25" trackball casing is smaller so I will post new cp layout shortly, seems the spinner could fit, just! Whether the CP is still playable is another matter!!

Front of the panel admin buttons on that style of cabinet are a mistake, they constantly get bumped into during gameplay.

Thats a good point. Although I don't think I ever bumped into my upright whilst playing, you wouldn't want to accidentally exit a game when going for a high score.

I think you would still be ok with start buttons on the front of the CP. You could use shifted buttons for everything else.

[csa3d]

Got an email back from GGG, apparently the size of the 2.25" trackball casing is smaller so I will post new cp layout shortly, seems the spinner could fit, just! Whether the CP is still playable is another matter!!

I'll throw this out there in case no one has yet.. you will have to attach the control panel to your cabinet at some point, which will require some sort of fastener, which will take up space of some sort.  Measure your fasteners too when you do your mockup.  For the PCB's, you could use the plexi mount trick like I did on my Galaxian panel.  It's gonna be super tight in there for sure.

-csa

[surface tension]

How do you map F9 to say left click. I know Windows has the built in accessibility feature to use the numeric keypad as the mouse (press left alt, left shift and numlock). So presumably to do this with other keys I need some 3rd party software?

How are you going to connect your trackball? You're going to need something along the lines of an Opti-pac.

[ex_directory]

Will be getting the electric ice-t trackball from groovygamegear, think this comes with the opti-wiz interface.

How do you map F9 to say left click. I know Windows has the built in accessibility feature to use the numeric keypad as the mouse (press left alt, left shift and numlock). So presumably to do this with other keys I need some 3rd party software?

How are you going to connect your trackball? You're going to need something along the lines of an Opti-pac.

[ex_directory]

Got an email back from GGG, apparently the size of the 2.25" trackball casing is smaller so I will post new cp layout shortly, seems the spinner could fit, just! Whether the CP is still playable is another matter!!

I'll throw this out there in case no one has yet.. you will have to attach the control panel to your cabinet at some point, which will require some sort of fastener, which will take up space of some sort.  Measure your fasteners too when you do your mockup.  For the PCB's, you could use the plexi mount trick like I did on my Galaxian panel.  It's gonna be super tight in there for sure.

-csa

Hey csa, good point re fixings, will add this to my diagram later.

Think your plexi trick worked because you had the L shape cp to attach to, not so easy with just a straight cp, but still doable, have some plexi and had already thought would be neater than my current solution if possible. Having said that my current solution is quite nice for carrying the CP around.

[ex_directory]

Sorry - multiple posts...

Have added the spinner, top view



sectional view...



please all feel free to critique, I may still take the spinner out.

csa - do I have the TB orientation correct on this view?

[Ginsu Victim]

Is that enough room for a spinner? Also, are you planning on playing any Golden Tee or anything? That spinner could get in the way.

[surface tension]

Will be getting the electric ice-t trackball from groovygamegear, think this comes with the opti-wiz interface.

From GGG website... "High-Performance 3-Axis, 3-button Mouse Emulation." So it looks like you already have your mouse buttons sorted.

[ex_directory]

Will be getting the electric ice-t trackball from groovygamegear, think this comes with the opti-wiz interface.

From GGG website... "High-Performance 3-Axis, 3-button Mouse Emulation." So it looks like you already have your mouse buttons sorted.

I assumed that meant dedicated buttons for the mouse though, what I would like to do is have player 2's buttons 5 and 6 act as mouse buttons by default and then when playing a game that requires those buttons for player 2 disable the mouse clicks on those buttons, automatically ideally but otherwise manually.

[ex_directory]

Is that enough room for a spinner? Also, are you planning on playing any Golden Tee or anything? That spinner could get in the way.

Haven't played golden tee for a long time but thought that most 'major' movement was to the top or top right?

Re spinner, I am right handed so will use the spinner with my right hand, equally haven't used a spinner in a very long time but when I think about it I guess your had does not lie on the cp like with a joy, more like undoing a crew cap bottle of wine!? Hence should not be an issue of resting my hand on the trackball when using the spinner?

[Ginsu Victim]

My question was is there enough room to INSTALL the spinner? It looks like there isn't enough room for it.

[ex_directory]

My question was is there enough room to INSTALL the spinner? It looks like there isn't enough room for it.

Ah, yes think so, have opted for the smallest spinner I could find, ggg's turbo twist 2, same install size as a stndard button.

[Ginsu Victim]

Oh....that one. Ok, yeah, it'll be fine.
Still think it might get in the way on certain trackball games, but hey, I hope you prove me wrong.

[Zobeid]

A lot of original coin-op games had P1 and P2 start on the front, but of course it doesn't matter if you bump those during the game.

I plan on putting my power and game-exit buttons on the cabinet front panel under the CP box.  The side panels will also shield them from the sides -- if you look at the front of a Joust cabinet you'll see what I mean.  So they'll be accessible but very much out of the way and protected from accidental bumping.

P1 and P2 start and PAUSE go on the control panel of course.  Front-end navigation is done with game buttons.  Coin drop is done with tokens.  Anything more advanced will require a wireless keyboard-and-trackpad.

[surface tension]

I assumed that meant dedicated buttons for the mouse though, what I would like to do is have player 2's buttons 5 and 6 act as mouse buttons by default and then when playing a game that requires those buttons for player 2 disable the mouse clicks on those buttons, automatically ideally but otherwise manually.

I hear what you're saying. But, going back to my mention of F9 and F12 keys, I haven't found anything that they interfere with in Windows. When running MAME, you won't even know you're pressing the mouse buttons.

I feel like I'm trying to convince you to do it my way here! From my usage, it's a robust option. It's up to you.

[ex_directory]

I assumed that meant dedicated buttons for the mouse though, what I would like to do is have player 2's buttons 5 and 6 act as mouse buttons by default and then when playing a game that requires those buttons for player 2 disable the mouse clicks on those buttons, automatically ideally but otherwise manually.

I hear what you're saying. But, going back to my mention of F9 and F12 keys, I haven't found anything that they interfere with in Windows. When running MAME, you won't even know you're pressing the mouse buttons.

I feel like I'm trying to convince you to do it my way here! From my usage, it's a robust option. It's up to you.

Sorry st, I think I am just being a bit of a plank here... I don't quite get how you do it!

I agree using F9 and F12 is fine, but how do I actually make F9 = left click during normal windows operation?

[surface tension]

Ah ok. Just wire the button to both the IPAC (for F12/9) and to the opti-wiz (for the mouse button).

[ex_directory]

Ah ok. Just wire the button to both the IPAC (for F12/9) and to the opti-wiz (for the mouse button).

Why didn't you just say so 

Thanks, will definitely do this.

I should not need any more buttons than the diagrams above, I am using the IPAC so have the shift option on player 1 for coin, esc, tab etc.

[rrcade]

Well you could either wire up a D sub connector or similar for those few buttons or a more simpler (but longer swapping) option would be to use bullet connectors for the individual buttons.

Either way shouldnt add more than a minute for the swap, the d sub would be the better option as it would only take a couple of seconds.

Is the way to do this take a vga extender (male and female ends), chop in two and then connect bare wires accordingly or is there more to it?

Ian, great link, how does he get the buttons so close to the trackball in this CP - or is it just an optical illusion 

This is a nice looking panel, I have a question though, when you play a 4way joystick game can you also use the 8 way? I guess the user just has to know whether it is a 4 or 8 way game?

[ex_directory]

This is not my cp, I just put it in to show how close the TB was to the buttons above it.

I guess the answer to your question though is the two joys are connected to the same inputs on the interface board. It is just the 4 way is restricted to only select one switch at a time but the 8 way can go into the corners causing a 'up' and 'right' at the sdame time.

[ex_directory]

OMG, just pricing all this new CP stuff up on GGG - have topped $300 if I get everything from them! And then her majesty will add her bit when it arrives.

Could also be another reason to drop the spinner!