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Author Topic: How to use SCART for our hobby  (Read 242904 times)

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Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #320 on: November 14, 2011, 09:49:09 pm »
It's also possible that you're seeing something similar that looks kinda like dot crawl but actually isn't.

Yep, that sounds about right. On the Calida I have (not sure which chassis off the top of my head) there are some wiggly bits but nothing as severe as the example image you linked to. It's easy to spot when you boot up something like Street Fighter III: the red text against black background looks unstable. With the Loewe E3000 chassis everything is rock solid.

I'm kicking myself because earlier in the year, when I first got into this caper, I found a Loewe 32" Calida on the side of the road. It worked fine but didn't have a remote. At that stage I hadn't discovered Soft-15kHz yet and was struggling with Powerstrip. I got rid of that TV because I couldn't figure out how to show an image from the PC correctly and a replacement remote would have cost $$$. Little did I know that it was the exact unit I wanted: a massive screen with a chassis well suited for MAME/SCART. Oh well, live and learn.
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Paradroid

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More Loewes...
« Reply #321 on: November 18, 2011, 02:56:02 am »
Just got another Loewe CT1170 off eBay for $35. This one is even better than the other one I got a few weeks ago! I would certainly recommend this model to anyone looking for a SCART TV for MAME usage.

In other news, I tried out a Grundig ST 72-261/8 IDTV/LOG that I saw on Gumtree. Very stylish looking unit but when I pulled up the Nokia Monitor Test program, all sorts of issues were revealed. Shame. I really like the design style of the Grundig TVs.

I also picked up a Loewe Contur 1640 off the side of the road this afternoon. The 1460 I have is really good so here's hoping the 1640 will deliver also (provided it actually works ;) ).

While I was out I saw a Loewe Arcada, a few Teacs and one of those mega Sonys that apfelanni mentioned. Since I already had 2 units in the car I had to leave that be. Also, I doubt I would have been able to lift it by myself. :(

Anyway, I must have over 10 SCART TVs in the house now. Time to decide which ones stay and which ones go on eBay.

If anybody in Melbourne, Australia wants a cheap SCART TV suitable for MAME, now's the time to speak up. ;)
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Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #322 on: November 18, 2011, 02:57:44 am »
@apfelanni

I haven't forgotten about your question regarding what picture tubes are in the Loewes. I know they're Phillips but I'll take some photos of the fine print soon! Sorry, I was away with work all last week and this week has been super busy too.
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

orchidius

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #323 on: November 19, 2011, 02:27:57 pm »
Hi there,

I started my first arcadecab build about a year ago. All went (reasonably well) until I bumped into a heap of troubles with my monitor (SCART tv) setup. Loooooooong story short, the whole thing is finished except for the monitor, and I finally got around to fixing that problem. I thought the source of the problem was a bad soldering joint in my cable, but after fixing that, I was still stuck with the following image:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/img0782yp.jpg/

My cable is currently soldered like this:

VGA -------> SCART
1                    15
2                    11
3                    7
13/14              20
5/6/7/8/10       17

And then the molexplug as in the first post (the tv doesn't automatically search the right channel, but I don't really mind).

The GPU is a Nvidia geforce 7300, and the Soft15khz mode is on.

Any ideas what this could be? Thanks heaps!!

PS: On a different note, would a cable like this be of any use in a setup like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Scart-Cable-Male-SVGA-VGA-15-Pin-HD-Plug-Lead-LCD-/230605424560?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item35b12787b0

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #324 on: November 19, 2011, 06:40:41 pm »
the bay cable wont work .

- i dont see the pin 16 for rgb toggle wired .. grab the voltage from the sync signal ( dirty method ) or 5 volt from molex or vga pin 9 with a resistor . check some of the mamescart schematiscs ! which one works best depends on the video card and the tv set .
- the nvidia card may not work without a dongle , try older cards like geforce 5200 or a radeon 9200 , 9250 , or a pci card like 4350 .. check the compability list in soft 15 forum
- i would daisy chain the grounds on the scart adapter and solder the rgb grounds to the pins they are meant to be .
- 12 volt to pin 8 for av + 4:3 switch

u should try this one ( most good tv sets dont need the 1 k ressitors , some work fine with bridge pin 20 > 16 instead of external voltage ) .
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 02:15:24 pm by apfelanni »

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #325 on: November 19, 2011, 07:29:33 pm »
Any ideas what this could be?

I used the cable type documented here: http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/14/t/39520.aspx

This cable has worked with all the various video cards and TVs I've tested so far.

Maybe worth a try?
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

orchidius

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #326 on: November 22, 2011, 04:13:05 am »
I currently have the following cable setup:

VGA -----------> SCART
1                      15
6                      13
2                      11
7                       9
3                       7
8                       5
9       100ohm     16
5                      18
13    1000ohm     20
14    1000ohm     20
10                     17

But this setup is not working. Here's the picture I'm getting: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/img0788d.jpg/. Could the problem here be that the card is too "new" for the soft15khz tool? Are the drivers not right? Is the cable not right (again)? Could it be fixed with a dongle?

Please help!

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #327 on: November 22, 2011, 03:00:01 pm »
have u checked the vga pin 9 voltage ? there are only very old vga cables with pin 9 wired and some graphiccards may not put out the 5 volt. sailersat should know if the nvidia card needs a dongle .

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #328 on: November 24, 2011, 12:01:42 am »
Yeah, ditto to apfelanni's comment. Only some video cards output 5v on VGA pin 9

ATI cards do (this includes Ultimarc ArcadeVGA cards, which are based on ATI), but many other manufacturers do not.
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orchidius

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #329 on: November 24, 2011, 03:23:56 am »
So a possible solution is to go back to the molex to add the 9v and the 12v?

orchidius

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #330 on: November 24, 2011, 05:16:10 am »
Ok, I hooked up the molex plug again, leading +5v to scart pin 16 with a 100ohm resistor inbetween and 12v to scart pin 8. I hooked up ground to an external ground, but that didn't seem to make any difference. Here's the picture I'm getting:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/img0794g.jpg/

You can clearly see the windows login screen, but the color is orange/red-ish and the sync seems off...

Thanks heaps for the help btw guys!

Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #331 on: November 25, 2011, 11:19:27 am »
I have the option of using 1 of 2 ATI cards I have to hand with a Scart TV setup, a HD 4550 and a HD 4650 (both 512mb).
The 4650 has better performance but 2 DVI ports & 1 S-Video, where as the 4550 with less performance has VGA, HDMI & DVI.
Which card would produce the best picture though, the better 4650 with a DVI to VGA adapter or the 4550 using its VGA port?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 12:49:39 pm by Jollywest »

lettuce

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #332 on: November 29, 2011, 04:36:23 pm »
Anyone based in the UK that can make one of these scart to vga cables for me? By the time i get around to buying a solder iron, solder and all the bits i might aswell a professional to make one for me

lettuce

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #333 on: November 30, 2011, 09:07:16 am »
Ok found a crappy solder iron in the garage, and used the diagram on the first page of this thread and solder everything up bar the chassis ground on the vga end and the 12v and 5v wires to connect up to the PC. I have nothing installed (not even windows) on the pc at the moment and have connected it up to my LCD screen to make sure i was getting a picture, and this is the display i was greeted with......



Any ideas?

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #334 on: November 30, 2011, 03:45:16 pm »
what did u expect ? get a 50 /60 hertz crt tv set and try again . u wont see anything but flickering at all . 

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #335 on: December 01, 2011, 12:36:16 pm »
Well i installed windows xp and the ctr_emudriver_6.5 for my ATI card and hook the pc up to my CRT TV, when turning on the PC the TV screen seems to display loads of white dots on the screen that seem to scroll really fast down the screen, i can hear the screen turn to a different refresh rate about 3 time and then i just get a black screen with no white dots or scrolling... i guess the system is in windows at this point. Any ideas on whats wrong here?

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #336 on: December 01, 2011, 04:24:47 pm »
ctr emudriver ??

- plug pc monitor on
- install windows
- install ati catalyst driver pack
- set comp to 640x480 60 hertz 32 bit
- copy soft 15 k to hd
- copy quickres to hd and set it to autostart
- start soft 15k , click install soft 15 k
- power down
- plug on mamescart cable and ur scart 50/60 hertz tv

- restart >bingo , after loading the driver ure in 15 k mode windows ( 640x480 interlaced , 32 k ). if u want progressive mode try lower resolutions
via quickres .. gl

some tvs may work well in 640x480 , others in 512x 448 or whatever u like . use tvs osd/potis to fix overscan ,image size , position etc.





Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #337 on: December 03, 2011, 07:29:54 pm »
I have the option of using 1 of 2 ATI cards I have to hand with a Scart TV setup, a HD 4550 and a HD 4650 (both 512mb).
The 4650 has better performance but 2 DVI ports & 1 S-Video, where as the 4550 with less performance has VGA, HDMI & DVI.
Which card would produce the best picture though, the better 4650 with a DVI to VGA adapter or the 4550 using its VGA port?

I decided to try and get this working with HD 4550 with Catalyst 9.5 Drivers but without any luck. I re-checked the cable numerous times and all pins are correctly connected and they all show continuity with a multimeter.
I have the cable setup as shown in the diagram below;



...but without the Audio cables connected and I used Pin 19 on scart instead of Pin 20, as per instruction in the site notes if you have a male to male cable, HERE

I boot up the pc into XP, start Soft-15 and install 15khz rate, Start Quickres and set to 640 x 480 and have it set to start on windows startup, I restart the PC change the VGA cable over and all I get is a fuzzy AV-1 sign in the top corner which stops fuzzing after about 1 minute (when into windows desktop I'm guessing).

The tv I'm connecting to is Sony Trinitron KV-X2502U, I tried tinkering with a few of the Service mode options in case the TV is the issue, but other than a few obvious options like interlace, screen pos etc.. I a bit clueless as to which, if any, of the options might help the situation. Here are the service mode options;



If anyone has managed to connect to a Trinitron, did you have to change any specific options?
Cheers.  
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 07:31:49 pm by Jollywest »

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #338 on: December 04, 2011, 06:28:02 am »
forget the pin male to male nonsens , ure getting confused . scart pins a well defined . u should use a scart plug for soldering with printed numbers on at least one side . if the combined sync has to go to pin 20 so be it . u better cut and use a vga cable ( very old ones with pin 9 connected or new ones with coax rgb wires or audio included ) or solder it all complete from scratch . using a common scart cable makes no sense at all .

most sonys are very forgiving with the chosen cable shematics. my kv25 and kv 21 are working with a pin 9 5v cable and a hacked pc monitor cable i took from a defectice crt with bridged pin 20 to 16 and no pin 8 connected . but the molex thing wont hurt anyway . some tvs like grundig or philips may not switch to av/rgb without the fitting voltage on the scart pins . photo is taken from my kv21x5d ( 49 euro holiday cam and flash :) .

check the pin 19/20 problem . if cant find out whats causing the trouble ( cable , card , soft ,tv ) grab an old multisync from amiga or atari aera for testing.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 06:36:02 am by apfelanni »

Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #339 on: December 04, 2011, 07:46:09 am »
The cable I've done is from scratch. A vga connector, scart connector, cable & resistors. I tried pin 20 first and then pin 19 without any joy.
Thanks for the info on the sony. I'll keep trying a few things.

Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #340 on: December 05, 2011, 04:01:19 am »
I've built a new cable just to hopefully eradicate any cable errors.
I chopped the female end off an old style vga cable (with pin 9) and soldered it to a scart connector. I've checked each pin for continuity as well.
However it still isn't working and the only difference is that I get a garbled boot picture when the pc first boots.
I'm probably getting a bit confused here but what use is pin 9 on the vga cable in this vga-scart setup? As
don't see it connected anywhere in the diagrams

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #341 on: December 05, 2011, 04:06:59 pm »
the sub-d 5 volt pin 9 can be used to set the tv to rgb and av mode. its usally missing on newer cables . if u cut a 15/15 male female cable it doesnt necessarily mean the pin is wired . u should meter the voltage ! 5 volt to pin 8 enables auto av , but sometimes in 16:9 mode. some tvs ignore the voltage and switch to 4:3 . 

check this here . i upped the translated schematics from mamescart italy . make sure u dont mix up solderside and pin side of the vga and scart plug. best thing is to print it out or draw it on paper after u pinged the wires with a multimeter ( unless ure vga plug is a non hotglued screw version and u can verify the cable colors visual ).



https://rapidshare.com/files/435253427/Google_Translate.mht

Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #342 on: December 05, 2011, 06:25:19 pm »
Thanks for the file, everything you ever wanted to know about VGA-scart RGB by the looks of it.  :)

5.2 Schematic no.2 is how I connected my 2nd cable (cut female end off vga and soldered scart connector), the scart connector had pin numbers on both sides and is correctly soldered but even though each pin has continuity I now realise that vga pins 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 15 are connected somewhere in the cable or inside the male side of glued vga connector, is this something to do with the foil surrounding each ground cable perhaps?

5.5 Diagram 6 is how I connected my 1st cable together (male vga connector, male scart connector, 2 x 1k Ohm res, 1x 100 Ohm res, cable), Again both the vga and scart connectors had pin numbers on both sides and is also soldered correctly, has continuity and I've put sync cables back onto pin 20 from 19. Still no picture on tv though.
The voltage on the red 5v cable with 100 Ohm resistor reads at 2.8v and the yellow 12v cable reads at 12.2v. Bit stumped as to why this cable wouldn't work.
 
To rule out the video card being the problem I've got a cheap one coming from ebay that is in the supported section on the soft-15khz website, I'll grab another scart tv as well.

 

karnov64

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #343 on: December 06, 2011, 10:27:29 pm »
if it has not been said already in this thread (havnt read through it all yet lol), if u want the auto switch to AV on your TV via pin 8 of the scart connector, but can only send 5v to this pin (perhaps if that is all your vga pin 9 can provide), and thus end up in 16:9 widescreen mode, but want 4:3 instead, go into your tv service menu and perhaps like my tv (14" beko) you will have the option to change the size (horiz/vert resize) of the widescreen mode, in which case u can simply 'resize' your 16:9 screen to 4:3, and save your changes.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 01:15:40 pm by karnov64 »

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #344 on: December 07, 2011, 07:54:33 pm »
i upped the translated schematics from mamescart italy

Thanks for that apfelanni! You're a real asset around here! I'd never seen that page before and, although I read much of the information elsewhere, there's some cool stuff there. Gonna take me a while to get through it all but I'm looking forward to it! Some good holiday reading material... ;)
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #345 on: December 08, 2011, 02:44:09 am »
I decided to try and get this working with HD 4550 with Catalyst 9.5 Drivers but without any luck.  

Just an idea - the newer Catalyst drivers might not work for Soft15khz. Try using older Catalyst drivers, say 6.5.

http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/ATI/ATI-Catalyst-65.shtml
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 02:46:54 am by Zebidee »
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #346 on: December 08, 2011, 03:21:17 pm »
For some reason I can't install any early versions of ATI drivers on the HD 4550, I'm guessing that only later versions are supported.
Hopefully my new card (HD4670) will arrive tomorrow, Its in the Soft15 support list with catalyst 9.2 drivers.

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #347 on: December 13, 2011, 03:16:46 pm »
Hey guys. I've posted some screenshots of my latest SCART discovery (it's a Siemens FS 343) over here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=116014.msg1235225#msg1235225. Pretty nice TV! :)
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #348 on: December 15, 2011, 05:12:47 pm »
For some reason I can't install any early versions of ATI drivers on the HD 4550, I'm guessing that only later versions are supported.
Hopefully my new card (HD4670) will arrive tomorrow, Its in the Soft15 support list with catalyst 9.2 drivers.

The new card unfortunately yielded similar results with Soft-15, but I tried Powerstrip running via VNC and got a stable desktop picture of really decent quality on the tv (@ resolutions of 800x600 & 640x480). I just need to tweak the Screen size & position a bit, I'm presuming with Modelines but after plugging away at it, at what seems quite a while, feel like I'm getting somewhere now. Hoorar! :D

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #349 on: December 16, 2011, 04:25:58 pm »
I tried a few different resolutions in Powerstrip and by adjusting a few things in the TV service menu got a full desktop picture at resolution 720x540.
I plan to use vga-scart setup in a Driving emulator cab. MAME games look good but the Sega Model 2 and 3 games don't look great. I realise now that Sega model 2/3 native resolution is 496x384 med res 24khz, so the TV won't show it at native res. Best I could get was 360x270 non-interlaced which looked pretty awful, 496x384 interlaced which looked ok apart from the flicker or 720x540 interlaced whch looked pretty good but again with the interlace flicker. Is this the best I can hope for or is there a way around getting it at native without interlace? (I've been trying things with Powerstrip & Winmodeline to no avail) or is my best bet a dual sync arcade monitor to get these native resolutions? cheers.

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #350 on: December 20, 2011, 10:04:51 pm »
I tried a few different resolutions in Powerstrip and by adjusting a few things in the TV service menu got a full desktop picture at resolution 720x540.
I plan to use vga-scart setup in a Driving emulator cab. MAME games look good but the Sega Model 2 and 3 games don't look great. I realise now that Sega model 2/3 native resolution is 496x384 med res 24khz, so the TV won't show it at native res. Best I could get was 360x270 non-interlaced which looked pretty awful, 496x384 interlaced which looked ok apart from the flicker or 720x540 interlaced whch looked pretty good but again with the interlace flicker. Is this the best I can hope for or is there a way around getting it at native without interlace? (I've been trying things with Powerstrip & Winmodeline to no avail) or is my best bet a dual sync arcade monitor to get these native resolutions? cheers.

Yes, it is the best you can do - although you might find some other similar res that works OK. Maybe you could get slight improvement in picture quality if you could generate an interlaced res of 496x384 (would still be interlaced, but no stretching etc), but I seem to remember having trouble getting similar resolutions when I tried using Powerstrip (mind you, that was some time ago), maybe because the refresh rates were around the middle of the 50-60 khz range. TVs tend to like refresh rates close to either 50 or 60 khz, but not near the middle (e.g. 53-57khz). Or something like that.

On a 15Khz/low-res/CGA monitor (which is what a SCART TV effectively is) you are limited to a maximum of 288 vertical lines, unless you go for interlacing which gives up to 572 vertical lines (theoretically). to get a non-interlaced res with 384 vertical lines you need a medium res monitor (in a practical sense, this means dual res).

As Scotty from Star Trek would say: "Yae cannae change the laws of physics". Although, of course, they seem to do that pretty routinely in Star Trek.
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #351 on: December 21, 2011, 05:12:47 am »
Thanks, yea MonMotha did confirm with me that this was the case.
I guess I was just looking for a cheaper alternative to buying a dual res monitor. 
I tried 496 x 384 interlaced but even though the picture was ok, I couldn't get away with the flicker.

joecontra

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    • VGA-SCART -- articles by joecontra
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #352 on: December 26, 2011, 05:26:24 am »
Hi everyone!  :)

I built my own VGA-SCART cable as shown on this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

It works very well. I use it to watch movies or playing games with emulator or PC games with resolution 640x480 and 800x600.

Regards,
joecontra
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #353 on: December 28, 2011, 10:00:27 am »
Hi everyone!  :)

I built my own VGA-SCART cable as shown on this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

It works very well. I use it to watch movies or playing games with emulator or PC games with resolution 640x480 and 800x600.

Regards,
joecontra

Interesting circuit diagram.

Unfortunately, most of the images at the linked site are unviewable - seems to require some registration at imageshack.
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joecontra

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #354 on: December 28, 2011, 12:09:10 pm »
Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

Hi everyone!  :)

I built my own VGA-SCART cable as shown on this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

It works very well. I use it to watch movies or playing games with emulator or PC games with resolution 640x480 and 800x600.

Regards,
joecontra

Interesting circuit diagram.

Unfortunately, most of the images at the linked site are unviewable - seems to require some registration at imageshack.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 12:25:36 pm by joecontra »
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #355 on: December 28, 2011, 03:45:45 pm »
Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

All of the pics (but not vids) have been substituted with this (attached).
Check out my completed projects!


joecontra

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #356 on: December 29, 2011, 03:31:28 am »
Hi!

I fixed the problem on the main page. Is it okay now?

I'm going to do that on the full site.

Regards,
joecontra

Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

All of the pics (but not vids) have been substituted with this (attached).
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

joecontra

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #357 on: December 29, 2011, 10:08:56 am »
Hi!

I went trough the entire site and fixed all image issues. But please check it.

https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

Regards,
joecontra

Hi!

I fixed the problem on the main page. Is it okay now?

I'm going to do that on the full site.

Regards,
joecontra

Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

All of the pics (but not vids) have been substituted with this (attached).
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #358 on: December 29, 2011, 10:01:32 pm »
@joecontra

Yes, much better and a very interesting article!

I like it a lot :cheers:
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joecontra

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #359 on: December 30, 2011, 04:31:43 am »
Thanks!

Regards,
joecontra

@joecontra

Yes, much better and a very interesting article!

I like it a lot :cheers:
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home