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Author Topic: How to use SCART for our hobby  (Read 122855 times)

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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2008, 01:14:38 pm »
i redid scart lead and twisted all grounds together and solderd to a ground point, cable worked nicely with correct colours.

thanx for help guys  :applaud:   

Yay!    :cheers:   That makes me happy .... I can sleep soundly now, although a few scotches help too <hic!>

for eliminating windows, I always follow this guide:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Hiding_Windows

This might be too many scotches speaking but ... personally, I'm happy because over the past few months I've accumulated  large number of scart input monitors and TVs (eg Loewe brand) and old arcade cabs that I can restore .... so I'm pretty happy <*hic...*>  .... 

(warning: shameless self-promotion follows)

So, if anyone in Australia wants a *FANTASTIC* mame cab, let me know by PM because I'm going to be putting some on the market soon (officially for personal use, and roms *NOT* included in sale, for the copyright police out there ...).




Check out my latest projects!


zedrein

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2008, 12:35:25 am »
Perhaps you guys can help me: I am looking for a SNES RGBS cable that already has the audio brought out (i.e. not in the SCART lead, but seperate from the video connector) That way I would only have to terminate the connector needed for my display. If you guys can help me out I'd really appreciate it, the SCART cable I've found doesn't have the seperate audio cables/

Level42

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2008, 10:36:36 am »
Sorry but please stay on topic.... :laugh:

Geoffers

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2009, 06:34:06 am »
Hi all,

just posting on here for the first time... well, I purchased a powered (for AV switching and RGB blanking) VGA to SCART, from Zebidee
, and I have to say.... WOW!.. Really pleased with the results.. I have tried it with both an Arcade VGA (native) and a Radeon 9250 running soft 15Khz.. and the results on a 16 year old Mitsubushi TV have been fantastic.

Big thanks goes out to Zebidee, I live in the UK, but he was really quick to get it to me.. true gent!

Out of interest, does anyone know how soft 15Khz does with more recent "oomphy" graphics cards?

Cheers.


SquidgyPidgeon

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2009, 11:25:37 am »
Hi Everyone!

After spending 4 days literally wiring, re-wiring, installing win98 / xp, display drivers, unistalling, re-installing im at my wits end!! hair is almost completely gone! (altho wasnt too much left anyway!)

Ive got a 21" CRT old Ferguson TV wired up to my pc via home made scart.  To begin with I had an Ati 7500 but wasnt having much luck as all i was getting on tv was a white vertical and horizontal line.  I also had trouble with the Ati drivers being kicked out by soft 15khz in win98SE. 

So ive changed to Ati9200(SE) Win XP and re-wired my lead, i think the initial prob was lead shorting as i now have the colours on the TV but rolling vertically v.v.fast.  I think Soft 15khz seems to be doing something as if i boot up with monitor plugged in it boots until windows is about to come on then screen goes blank and at this point if i plug in TV i get the rolling picture.  All colours appear to be there.

Ive crossed wires 13+14 and soldered them to 20 on scart, also bridged 16-20 on scart.  If i use a 100ohm resistor between the 5v on the pc and the scart i get no picture at all, as soon as i bypass the resistor im back to my rolling picture.  I've tried just about every combination of everything i've read on here and just seem to be having no luck.

Ive just read a post where someone advised to connect all grounds together?? (not tried)

any ideas?

cheers guys
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 03:10:30 pm by SquidgyPidgeon »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2009, 03:53:31 pm »
Ive just read a post where someone advised to connect all grounds together?? (not tried)

any ideas?

cheers guys

1) You definitely need to attach the grounds.

2) If you have a pic, but it is rolling, then sync is the obvious place to look.  I guess that the wire is connected right, but check it again. Can you adjust vertical sync on TV?

3) You should also use a multimeter/ohmmeter to check resistance or shorts on the sync line (VGA 13+14 -> SCART 20) on your VGA-SCART cable.  Even a few ohms on this line can cause sync problems sometimes.  You can also use the multimeter to test that all the wires are connected properly (eg are you sure that both 13 + 14 connected properly?)

It is a good idea to always check VGA cable line resistances before starting this project because it really sucks to complete a cable, just to find that there is some resistance on the sync lines.  I have had this happen both with VGA cables I've cut off old monitors, and also once with a new but cheap VGA extension cable.

If you give up making this cable, you can always send me a PM and I'll make one for you, like I've done for a few members here already.
Check out my latest projects!


SquidgyPidgeon

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2009, 04:10:56 pm »
Hi Zebedee, thanks for the quick reply

I have the grounds connected to pins 13, 15 and 17 but not to each other- which seemed to be what someone was suggesting, is this correct?

I've just installed the older catalyst 6.05 drivers but that had no luck.

There doesnt seem to be a vertical sync on tv, everything but!

What kind of figures do i want to look out for on the multimeter when checking for resistance or shorts?

What do you make of the cable only working with the resistor not been connected?

What do you do if there is resistance on the sync lines? can you just chop end off and start again or is it case of brand new cable?

Thanks again!

SquidgyPidgeon

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2009, 04:18:50 pm »
I keep coming across various ways of connecting up scarts, e.g:


and

 http://www.willcoxonline.com/mame/video/video.html

thanks

SailorSat

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2009, 04:41:59 pm »
There are various PinOuts floating around, as some modern TVs support seperated Syncs and/or VGA (31kHz) signals via SCART.
Other pinouts are for beamers, scanconverters and other stuff.


Stick to the basic one.


VGA 1-2-3 (RGB) -> SCART 8-6-4
VGA 6-7-8 (RGB GND) -> SCART 7-5-3
VGA 13+14 (SYNC) -> SCART 20
VGA 10 (SYNC GND) -> SCART 17


Thats mostly it...  But you most likely need to get an AV switching voltage.
Either get it from your PCs PSU or wire a cable from VGA Pin 9 (+5V).
(using the VGA +5V will select 16:9 mode if your TV supports it)

PC PSU +12V (or VGA Pin 9) -> SCART Pin 8 (+5V = AV 16:9, +12V = AV 4:3)
PC PSU +5V (or VGA Pin 9) -> 75-100 Ohms Resistor -> SCART Pin 16 (~3V = RGB)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2009, 05:04:53 pm »
There are various PinOuts floating around, as some modern TVs support seperated Syncs and/or VGA (31kHz) signals via SCART.
Other pinouts are for beamers, scanconverters and other stuff.


Stick to the basic one.


VGA 1-2-3 (RGB) -> SCART 8-6-4
VGA 6-7-8 (RGB GND) -> SCART 7-5-3
VGA 13+14 (SYNC) -> SCART 20
VGA 10 (SYNC GND) -> SCART 17


Thats mostly it...  But you most likely need to get an AV switching voltage.
Either get it from your PCs PSU or wire a cable from VGA Pin 9 (+5V).
(using the VGA +5V will select 16:9 mode if your TV supports it)

PC PSU +12V (or VGA Pin 9) -> SCART Pin 8 (+5V = AV 16:9, +12V = AV 4:3)
PC PSU +5V (or VGA Pin 9) -> 75-100 Ohms Resistor -> SCART Pin 16 (~3V = RGB)


Guys

Using this pinout and the above pinout diagram confuses things, because they use different pin numbers for the SCART side (compared to the diagram put up by the the OP) and makes pin references in posts (eg my own) difficult for you to reference.

It doesn't even look like a SCART connector.

Anyway, I'm done whinging.  Moving right along.

You can connect all the ground separately like SS suggested, or just connect them all to one pin (I usually pick SCART 17 for sync, as sync is most sensitive to the grounding issue).  If you test with a multimeter, you'll find that all the grounds are common at the TV and the video card ends anyway.

Your problem might also be because of your driver or video setup.  Make sure that you are outputting the right kind of sync signal.  This can cause your problems too.

There is a stickied guide for using multimeters on this forum somewhere (one of the branches, Arcade Michellaneous?) that you can refer to.

Your cable not working with 5v + resistor?  It could be a wiring error.  Did you ground pin 18? However, if it works with the sync voltage then stick to that because it is simpler.  However, it would be good to get the resistor method working to help isolate problems and help work out your current sync issues.

If I have resistance on the sync line for the cable, I simply throw it out and get another cable.  Try for a different/better brand!

Check out my latest projects!


SquidgyPidgeon

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2009, 05:14:49 pm »
got it working!!!!

was a problem with vga wires 13+14 - cheers for the help zebedee your a star!! ;D

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #91 on: January 07, 2009, 05:25:13 pm »
got it working!!!!

was a problem with vga wires 13+14 - cheers for the help zebedee your a star!! ;D

No worries!!  As it is morning here, I'll be able to walk around with warm fuzzies all day.

For reference, I prefer to use this pinout:

http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml

and wire it like this:

Function
   
                SC   VGA male
Red          15    1
Green       11    2
Blue           7    3
GND(R)     17    6       All grounds together
GND(G)     17    7       All grounds together
GND(B)     17    8       All grounds together
GND(S)     17    10     All grounds together
Sync         20    13+14
shield     21/17 shield wire

The RGB switching is then done either by bridging the sync to pin 16, or the 5v + resistor method (if you do the latter, then don't forget to put your 5v ground wire to pin 18).

« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 05:33:09 pm by Zebidee »
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Josef1975

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2009, 05:51:11 am »
hi everybody, this is my first post here. my name is Joseph and I came from italy, so sorry for my bad english...
I have made may own first vga-scart rgb cable and it's working great... (tested over 3 different TVs)
but I still have some question:
I didn't used external PSU, simply connected pin 16 and 20 of the scart as suggested here. It work fine, but a friend told me two things:

1) If you join the two signal sync of vga, without any logical ttl circuit or resistor or diodes, you colud damage your grapichs card becouse (I try to explain) when one sync is low the other is high and vice-versa so this could be a problem

2) sync signal from vga is 5v pp (as it works on TTL logyc) but scart only need 1vpp signal level; so you should use a resistor do drop voltage from 5 to 1v to avoid damage to your TV...

I have tested my cable for several hours and nothing happens to my tv nor vga card, it' working great.. but should I scare of this 2 things or not?

thank you for the help!

Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2009, 02:19:56 pm »
Hi all,

just posting on here for the first time... well, I purchased a powered (for AV switching and RGB blanking) VGA to SCART, from Zebidee
, and I have to say.... WOW!.. Really pleased with the results.. I have tried it with both an Arcade VGA (native) and a Radeon 9250 running soft 15Khz.. and the results on a 16 year old Mitsubushi TV have been fantastic.

Big thanks goes out to Zebidee, I live in the UK, but he was really quick to get it to me.. true gent!

Out of interest, does anyone know how soft 15Khz does with more recent "oomphy" graphics cards?

Cheers.



Holy cow, i saw a BIIIG Mitsubishi TV the other day (29" maybe) with SCART.   I have a Radeon 9700 in my (future) cabinet pc, i'm thinking i might go out today and buy it. 

Just a question:  How close is a TV with RGB/SCART to a real arcade monitor? (running soft15khz)

Cheers.

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2009, 03:12:30 pm »
Great to see that you had success with your cable!

I didn't used external PSU, simply connected pin 16 and 20 of the scart as suggested here. It work fine, but a friend told me two things:

1) If you join the two signal sync of vga, without any logical ttl circuit or resistor or diodes, you colud damage your grapichs card becouse (I try to explain) when one sync is low the other is high and vice-versa so this could be a problem

Your syncs are combined whichever way you try.  Connecting pin 20 to 16 will not change this.  Occasionally someone comes out with this scare story about combining syncs, but I have never seen or heard of anybody on these forums having any problems by combining simple (negative) sync signals.

I am running two cabs at home with combined sync and pin 20 linked to pin 16 in the SCART cable.  They have been running for two years now without a hitch.  None of the many cabs that I have made for other people have had any problems either.

Quote
2) sync signal from vga is 5v pp (as it works on TTL logyc) but scart only need 1vpp signal level so you should use a resistor do drop voltage from 5 to 1v to avoid damage to your TV...

I have tested my cable for several hours and nothing happens to my tv nor vga card, it' working great.. but should I scare of this 2 things or not?

thank you for the help!

You have nothing to worry about.  SCART TVs normally expect sync to be between 1v-5v :cheers:
It is only the RGB signals that should be 0-1v.
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Josef1975

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2009, 06:10:59 pm »
Thank you for the reply! now I'm a bit quiet...  ;D

Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2009, 04:07:10 am »
Ok i made the cable.  Loaded windows on my normal monitor, installed the soft15khz, switched to 640x480x32-60hz, and shutdown.  Reconnected the TV via the new cable, and started up.  It looks like its working but its really scrambled (i get good colour though!).  Somes times looks like a really fast v.roll other times its like a random v.roll w/ random h.roll ?

Radeon Mobility 9700 (Catalyst 8.10)
Windows XP Pro SP3 x86
Mitsubishi 27" TV with SCART

I didn't use the Molex connector, i did the linking pins thingy.  I also twisted my pins 13/14 together and connected them as detailed.

Anyone?

Thanks.

Josef1975

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2009, 04:18:41 am »
hmm.. seems to be a sync problem. h.roll = missing horiz. sync, v.roll = missing vert. sync. both of them... I don't know.
I suggest you to check again the cable especially on pin 13,14 of vga -> pin 20 on the scart.
another thing may be to try a different tv...

Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2009, 04:36:53 am »
got it working!!!!

was a problem with vga wires 13+14 - cheers for the help zebedee your a star!! ;D

No worries!!  As it is morning here, I'll be able to walk around with warm fuzzies all day.

For reference, I prefer to use this pinout:

http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml

and wire it like this:

Function
   
                SC   VGA male
Red          15    1
Green       11    2
Blue           7    3
GND(R)     17    6       All grounds together
GND(G)     17    7       All grounds together
GND(B)     17    8       All grounds together
GND(S)     17    10     All grounds together
Sync         20    13+14
shield     21/17 shield wire

The RGB switching is then done either by bridging the sync to pin 16, or the 5v + resistor method (if you do the latter, then don't forget to put your 5v ground wire to pin 18).



I've just checked my cable with my multimeter and the ony VGA Pin connected to scart 17, is VGA pin 10?  and the metal surrounding the scart connected is an open circuit to the metal surrounding the VGA Cable.

I followed the instructions in the first post, then did the 2 follow ups:

Quote
"Mostly, I've done it by just running a short wire from pin 20 (ie sync) to pin 16, and this has worked fine.  I'd recommend to people that they try this method first, because it is much simpler. "

then

Quote
"I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20."
i get 0.5ohms between VGA Pin 13/14 and Scart Pin 20.

I'm thinking it might be a grounding issue.  Would unconnected grounds cause v.roll/h.roll ?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 04:40:00 am by Sosetsuken »

Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2009, 05:23:59 am »
Ok Heres what it look like (I've now joined the VGA Chasis and Scart 21.  Still the same :/)

[youtube]-R1CUTwsclI[/youtube]

why this:
Quote
GND(R)     17    6       All grounds together
GND(G)     17    7       All grounds together
GND(B)     17    8       All grounds together
GND(S)     17    10     All grounds together

Mine goes:

GND(R)     13     6
GND(G)     9      7 
GND(B)     5      8 
GND(S)     17    10


Also, for some weird reason, its doesn't matter if i have it on AV or if i leave the AV mode and change TV stations, its the exact same thing on every screen the messed up computer image.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 05:36:35 am by Sosetsuken »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2009, 03:09:38 pm »

Also, for some weird reason, its doesn't matter if i have it on AV or if i leave the AV mode and change TV stations, its the exact same thing on every screen the messed up computer image.


Hmmmm,  0.5 ohms on the sync line should not be enough to cause a problem.

A few things for you to look at:

1) Make sure that nothing is accidentally shorting in your SCART header, e.g. all those gnd wires you have.
2) Check out the polarity of horz & vert sync in your video card.  As you have a Radeon, I guess that you access this by right-clicking the desktop -> properties -> settings tab -> Advanced button, then choose the monitor tab.  This will only work if you have the catalyst software installed.  Polarity shown should be either composite or both negative, whichever works for your setup.
3) try doing the 5v + 100ohm resistor method to pin 16 (and GND to pin 18)
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

What I do is cover the ends of my wires with insulating tape or heat-shrink, to make sure that the wires don't get pushed together and short in that tiny SCART housing.  (interestingly, though irrrelevant, I prefer to make my cables from new headers with spade connectors built  and use small brass female quick-connects for my SCART connections.  I actually use very little solder.  This makes things a lot easier).

While you have your multmeter out, try plugging your cable into the PC VGA and then use your multimeter on diode test to check out all the GND pins you have wired into your SCART header.  I expect that you'll find that they are all common to each other.  Now, pull the cable out of the PC, plug the SCART into the TV, and check all the GND pins on the VGA end.  Again, I expect you to find them all common, even though you have wired them all separately.

What I'm trying to say is that you can save a lot of time and potential trouble by wiring your grounds together onto one SCART pin (e.g. 17, or any other will do, even audio ground!). Just an idea, It is a personal choice thing I guess   :dunno   You might want to continue wiring the VGA and SCART shields separately though.

Check out my latest projects!


Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2009, 03:00:12 am »
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

Which pin is VGA GND, or do you mean the Chasis on the VGA Plug?

PS: Sorry i'm fairly good at home electrical wiring, just not electronic stuff.

EDIT: i've plugged my Computer back into my Montitor, and its listing 640x480, running

H.Freq - 31.7kHz
V.Freq - 50.6 hz

Are those the correct freqencies for the cable?

EDIT2: I've just deinstalled soft15khz, then only enabled 15khz mode, not the others.  I restarted and my monitor shuts off when it gets into windows, so i tried it on my tv and it looks about the same.

I then tried disconnected pin 13+14 and it makes it look worse, no colours and no understandable images.  So i tried 13+14 back together and i'm back to where i started.

EDIT3: Just did

Quote
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

that makes it look like it syncs a bit better,  i can make out stuff but the picture seems to jump around a lot and still rolls a tiny bit but was nearly getting a full picture on the windows desktop, but it rolled jumped and looked a bit scattery.  So close! :/  I'll try and take a picture with my better camera when my sister finds it :/

I might grab a 100ohm resister tommorow and try the 5V+100ohm to pin16, and 12V to pin 8, i'll reroute pin 16 to the molex's GND as well.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 05:24:19 am by Sosetsuken »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #102 on: January 15, 2009, 07:50:00 am »
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

Which pin is VGA GND, or do you mean the Chasis on the VGA Plug?

you could try *any* of the gnd leads from VGA pins.  Like I said before, they are all electrically common at the video card end.

Quote
EDIT: i've plugged my Computer back into my Montitor, and its listing 640x480, running

H.Freq - 31.7kHz
V.Freq - 50.6 hz

Are those the correct freqencies for the cable?

No, that is a VGA frequency.

Quote
Quote
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

that makes it look like it syncs a bit better,  i can make out stuff but the picture seems to jump around a lot and still rolls a tiny bit but was nearly getting a full picture on the windows desktop, but it rolled jumped and looked a bit scattery.  So close! :/  I'll try and take a picture with my better camera when my sister finds it :/

I might grab a 100ohm resister tommorow and try the 5V+100ohm to pin16, and 12V to pin 8, i'll reroute pin 16 to the molex's GND as well.

If you are 100% sure that VGA 13+14 are properly connected to SCART 20, then my best guess is that you really do need to apply the 5v+resistor method to get it to go into RGB mode.  Some TVs are just like that, and I know nothing about Mitsubhishi TVs (like, don't they make cars?).  In the meantime, try DISCONNECTING the link from SCART 20 -> 16 and see what difference that makes to your picture.  If there is no difference at all, then rush out and buy that 100ohm resistor (and get a molex male plug, or a splitter cable, while you are at it).
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Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #103 on: January 15, 2009, 08:46:56 am »
Well i disconneted PIN16 from PIN20, and put a 1.5 volt battery in, now at first it didn't work. When i went into windows it was still wierd but then I vnc'd into my machine used quickres to change rez to the lowest resolution i could get and BAM it worked!

the only thing is i can't get standard resolutions like 320x240 or 640x480 but i can get 640x240 ?  Does that mean i've somehow put the connect in 16:9 mode instead of 4:3 ? (Because i can't get any real square-ish resolution, though i can get what looks like widescreen resolutions, cause my vnc window goes really wide)

Also running mame with "switchres 1" made the games either give me a blank screen (cps2) or same problem as before, scrolling/scambled picture (mk1/2/3).

I'm excited because the screen i did get was rock solid and clear as hell!  Just gotta figure out why i can't get the arcade rez's.

Oh and thanks for the all help Zeb, sorry if i'm annoying lol just trying to get this part of my cabinet ready :)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 08:59:07 am by Sosetsuken »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2009, 11:37:18 am »
Well i disconneted PIN16 from PIN20, and put a 1.5 volt battery in, now at first it didn't work. When i went into windows it was still wierd but then I vnc'd into my machine used quickres to change rez to the lowest resolution i could get and BAM it worked!

The cable seems to work properly.

I was just thinking, hey, maybe your problems are to do with your software after all.

Now, try removing the battery and putting your cable back to how it was (linking pin 20 to pin 16), and see if you can still get your basic 640x480 res.

Quote
the only thing is i can't get standard resolutions like 320x240 or 640x480 but i can get 640x240 ?

I think that you need to take this up on the Soft15khz thread.

Quote
Does that mean i've somehow put the connect in 16:9 mode instead of 4:3 ? (Because i can't get any real square-ish resolution, though i can get what looks like widescreen resolutions, cause my vnc window goes really wide)

No.  That has nothing to do with it.  Some TVs (especially those large TVs with 110 degree tubes) just seem wider.

Quote
Also running mame with "switchres 1" made the games either give me a blank screen (cps2) or same problem as before, scrolling/scambled picture (mk1/2/3).

I'm excited because the screen i did get was rock solid and clear as hell!  Just gotta figure out why i can't get the arcade rez's.

It must be something to do with your software setup! The cable works. 

Quote
Oh and thanks for the all help Zeb, sorry if i'm annoying lol just trying to get this part of my cabinet ready :)

No worries ;D
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Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2009, 11:56:25 am »
Ok, disconnected battery and wired 16->20 and i'm back to where i started, can't get any resolutions.  So i must need to do the +5v +100ohm on pin16 and the 12V on pin8 ?

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #106 on: January 15, 2009, 03:18:35 pm »
Ok, disconnected battery and wired 16->20 and i'm back to where i started, can't get any resolutions.  So i must need to do the +5v +100ohm on pin16 and the 12V on pin8 ?

Yep, given your experiences you'll neeed the 5v+ 100 ohm.  Also, understand that the TV spec. says a voltage 1-3v is needed at pin 16 for RGB.  The resistor method gives you ~2v for the signal.  The bridge method gives you ~3-5v for the signal.    Your TV is obviously fussy, therefore you need to use the resistor method.  Bridging is easier, by the resistor method is more certain.

You don't need the 12v signal to pin 8 unless you really want to.  But, seeing as you are going to make up a molex connector anyway, you might as well do the 12v signal as well as it is only a little extra effort.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2009, 02:15:14 am »
Hey Zeb, I think its a software problem.  When the cable works its like  :o

Thanks for all the help my friend :) Much appreciated!

(PS: I forgot how gorgeous mortal kombat ii looks on an arcade monitor!)

Josef1975

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2009, 04:41:27 am »
hi everybody, in the past 10 days I have made a complete guide on building a vga-scart cable; I have analized various scheme found on the web (with advantages and disavantages). the wrong news is that my guide is only in may language (italian) so I'm afraid most of you won't understand anything.. anyway if someone is interested in, this is the link: http://digilander.libero.it/venturi1975/
...and sorry for my bad english (as usual) ;)

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #109 on: January 19, 2009, 05:16:55 am »
Cooool.  I hope that you pointed out that the diagram (at section 5.2) only shows VGA pin 13 connected to SCART, not both 13 + 14 as it should be for most applications.  That has caught a few people out here.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #110 on: January 19, 2009, 05:57:09 am »
yes, my guide says:
 "Necessita di alimentazione esterna a 5 e 12v, funziona solo con certe schede video Ati Radeon"
"You need external powr supply, it only works on some ati radeon cards"
after this the guide point out that with these scheme the video card MUST generate a composite sync and only some ati radeon can do it, so I suggest to use another scheme (all those with pin 13 + 14 of course)

;)

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #111 on: January 19, 2009, 06:11:53 am »
Your English is much better than my Italian. ;D
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Josef1975

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #112 on: January 19, 2009, 03:07:03 pm »
Your English is much better than my Italian. ;D

 
English in much easy to learn...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sosetsuken

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2009, 07:57:19 am »
Just a finishing statement, i finally got it all working.  But my Radeon Mobility 9700 required the +5V&100ohm AND 12V

I had an old External USB Hdd case that I didn't need anymore which was perfect as it had a molex connector and the pcb once removed from the hdd enclosure was tiny.

Thanks Guys!

Oh and Josef1975 just use THIS http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F&sl=it&tl=en link, it does quite a good job of translating your italian guide, which is very helpful and detailed! :)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 08:00:32 am by Sosetsuken »

Honzo

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2009, 10:05:21 am »
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but shouldn't most tv's actually have access to a scart connection?
From other devices that I've fiddled with, I noticed some how manufacturers will just leave off parts, like the difference between a debugging xbox and a regular one, the regular one is just missing a pin header that can easily be soldered in....
Basically, what are the chances that a tv's chassis board would actually have a spot for a scart connector to be soldered on if it were to be originally for europe?  I'm just not sure since theres the big NTSC vs. PAL difference if this idea would apply to tv's too...
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #115 on: January 21, 2009, 02:11:48 am »
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but shouldn't most tv's actually have access to a scart connection?
From other devices that I've fiddled with, I noticed some how manufacturers will just leave off parts, like the difference between a debugging xbox and a regular one, the regular one is just missing a pin header that can easily be soldered in....
Basically, what are the chances that a tv's chassis board would actually have a spot for a scart connector to be soldered on if it were to be originally for europe?  I'm just not sure since theres the big NTSC vs. PAL difference if this idea would apply to tv's too...

Theoretically correct, but practically very hard unless you have TV schematics and a lot of electrical knowledge & experience.  Maybe some good guesswork could help you.  Go and have a look at a non-scart TV chassis and try to figure out where the RGB input lines are without a schematic.  :dizzy:
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Honzo

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #116 on: January 21, 2009, 02:54:26 am »
i meant more along the lines of a series of empty holes in the circuit board near where the composite connectors are solder and what not where a scart connector would just drop in and solder.  Whether or no all those points would actually be enabled is up to question too though.  I guess i'll know when i tear apart the tv and check out the board though...
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #117 on: January 21, 2009, 08:19:17 am »
Oh and Josef1975 just use THIS http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F&sl=it&tl=en link, it does quite a good job of translating your italian guide, which is very helpful and detailed! :)

very interesting, maybe translation isn't 100% accurate but it's readable.... thank you for the idea!
;)

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2009, 05:31:21 pm »
i meant more along the lines of a series of empty holes in the circuit board near where the composite connectors are solder and what not where a scart connector would just drop in and solder.  Whether or no all those points would actually be enabled is up to question too though.  I guess i'll know when i tear apart the tv and check out the board though...
Don't think this is very likely. I did some searching on video (decoding) chips commonly used in TV sets and usually the one's for NTSC are simply NTSC only and the PAL one's are usually PAL/SECAM.

You'd really have to find a point at one of those chips where the RGB signals are produced. And also where the sync signals can be found. Then, in theory, you could supply the signals to that point. You'd need to cut-off the original signals too.
Not easy, but it is possible. In the 80's I had my Atari 600XL hooked up to a small (new) B/W TV that a friend had modded to allow direct input of the monochrome signal. (I didn't have the money for a color monitor or TV).

Later, when I had an Atari ST, I used a color TV that had previously been used as a viditel terminal (text data system through telephone lines, like an ancient predecessor of the Internet). The company was interested to get back the old decoding board inside the TV+keyboard for spare and I only wanted them to make a SCART RGB connector on it. So, that decoding board put out the signals in RGB and was somewhere fed into the original board of the TV. They simply put a female SCART in the casing and re-wired.
Worked great.

So, yes it is possible, but you really have to know what you're doing. With the monitor prices in the US, I wouldn't bother.

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2009, 12:19:49 pm »
Loads of cheap crap 20" TVs sold here in NZ had a place on the back where they could have moulded the case with a hole for the scart, but the board inside had nothing where it would have being soldered in.

I doubt that they would use the same board for multiple markets - the US is large enough and has its own issues like with needing SAP and totally different closed captioning to the teletext based one used in the rest of the world that it wouldnt be viable to make a one size fits all board for a cheap television.

  
 

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