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Author Topic: How to use SCART for our hobby  (Read 123947 times)

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Level42

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2008, 03:02:03 pm »
The one I posted has been tested (by me :) ) and works great. Follow the resistor version and you will be SURE it works. Follow anything else and it MAY work.

I personally want my TV to act as a monitor so I don't want to hassle with any remotes. Follow the first postings and the TV will work exactly as a monitor.

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2008, 08:09:25 pm »
The one I posted has been tested (by me :) ) and works great. Follow the resistor version and you will be SURE it works. Follow anything else and it MAY work.

It's also important to keep an open mind, understand the basic principles and that there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Some ways are easier than others :)  Simple solutions often work best - sometime better.  Sometimes a hybrid is best.

For example, I'm currently using a cable that has SCART pin 20 -> pin 16 for sync, but inputs 12v (via molex from PC) to pin 8 to allow auto AV switching (9-12v is the standard spec for AV mode in 4:3 ratio).  The beauty of this cable is that I can unplug the molex but still have a cable that works, though without auto switch to AV mode.  This is because it doesn't rely on 5v power supply for the RGB switching.
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2008, 08:30:58 pm »
ok so im getting bored with changing the battry everyday on my vga to scart cable! im not sure what cables inside my pc are what voltage etc but i have a few cables spare that i could run to my monitor will it be ok to use one from my pc power supply so i can trigger rgb mode on my tv?

You most likely don't need any PC voltage to switch your TV to RGB mode - try linking pin 20 -> pin 16 instead first with a really short piece of wire (about 1 inch, 2.5cm).  It's a lot simpler, no molex hacking required.  The more complicated solution is to wire up Molex 5v -> 100ohm resistor -> pin 16. 

If your TV doesn't auto-switch into AV mode (AV mode is not the same thing as RGB mode, but I'm not sure if you mean this) when you turn it on, and you don't want to press buttons on the TV or remote to make it happen, then you might need to run 12v to pin 8.  5v might do it, but this isn't certain.

If you need to, buy a molex splitter cable and use that rather than chopping up cables from your PC power supply.  Yellow = 12v, red = 5v, the two black ones are ground (it doesn't matter which you use as they are common at the PC). 
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2008, 01:12:42 am »
So, what would be the U.S. equivalent be (in terms of TV specs) to Europe's SCART? An RGB television? Many TV in the US have RGB inputs...we call them "Component Inputs" (I think).?.

The Component Input wires are Red/Green/Blue, so I am wondering if it that input could be modded similarly to SCART.

Or, perhaps we're just screwed over here. :dunno
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 01:14:24 am by WunderCade »

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2008, 04:32:24 am »
Nope.
Component Video is something complety different, though there may be pretty cheap (and simple) RGB-to-Component Converters.
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2008, 04:01:36 am »
I do feel sorry for my US mame-brothers & sisters.

The main difference between component and RGB is that component runs the sync over two of the signal inputs, instead of having them separated.  This is roughly the extent of my knowledge on this.  You need some kind of black box or a keen electronics mind to convert and RGB signal into component.  I don't think that any of the black-boxes you can buy are cheap though.

If you have an ATI video card (certain types), you can buy an adapter (~$30, maybe cheaper off ebay or somewhere like that) designed specifically to output to component TVs.  It is meant to work only with ATI cards, but I have no idea whether it can work with anything else.  I have one, and tested it some time ago using Powerstrip.  It looked fine, *almost* as good as pure RGB+sync.  Therefore, it should work fine with Soft15khz (you might want to look at the Soft15khz thread or elsewhere on this forum for more info).

It would be interested to see a circuit diagram of how to convert RGB+sync -> component, if someone with the know-how were to post it.


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ahofle

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2008, 01:52:36 pm »
If you have an ATI video card (certain types), you can buy an adapter (~$30, maybe cheaper off ebay or somewhere like that) designed specifically to output to component TVs.  It is meant to work only with ATI cards, but I have no idea whether it can work with anything else.  I have one, and tested it some time ago using Powerstrip.  It looked fine, *almost* as good as pure RGB+sync.  Therefore, it should work fine with Soft15khz (you might want to look at the Soft15khz thread or elsewhere on this forum for more info).

Don't you have to run at 640x480 if using the DVI to component adapter?  I'm not sure if using Soft15khz would matter if you have to output a 480i or 480p signal eventually anyway.

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2008, 08:58:42 pm »
Don't you have to run at 640x480 if using the DVI to component adapter?  I'm not sure if using Soft15khz would matter if you have to output a 480i or 480p signal eventually anyway.

No - you can output at whatever resolution you can choose, not just 640x480.  Yes, it does squeeze it into 480i, but the result was much better than, say, your normal TV out from a video card.  It won't work without some software to allow you to output at 15.7khz though - you would need to use Soft15khz or Powerstrip or something else.

Anyway, it was some time ago that I did this (I was experimenting, and it was with Powerstrip), and there are discussions elsewhere about output to component input TVs which may be better informed :)

At the moment, I don't even own a component-input TV because RGB input is much easier and better.  ;D
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mchay

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2008, 02:01:08 pm »
I am experiencing some problems with the VGA->SCART cable I've just made. The colors seem fine, but the picture keeps running up/down. I've installed soft15kHz which functions fine when connected to the J-PAC and the arcade monitor - but I also tweaked the monitors v-hold. Is there a such setting on older (1998) Sony TVs that I do not know about and cannot find? Or what have i done wrong. Any ideas?

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2008, 02:17:08 pm »
Try connecting VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14.
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mchay

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2008, 02:24:15 pm »
Try connecting VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14.

I've connected 10 and 13 - as shown in the diagram. Is that incorrect?

EDIT: Where is Pin 14 mentioned?

HURRA: I connected Pin 14 to Pin 20 and it all stod clearly :-)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 04:53:29 pm by mchay »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2008, 09:50:15 pm »
Try connecting VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14.

I've connected 10 and 13 - as shown in the diagram. Is that incorrect?

No.  VGA pin 10 should be connected to ground, or SCART pin 17.

Quote
EDIT: Where is Pin 14 mentioned?

It isn't in the original diagram!  It conveniently misses this   :dizzy:   as the original author of that diagram (who was not the poster) was using a video card that output composite sync to pin 13. 

Most video cards will require pins 13 & 14 to be connected (ie, twist the wires together).

Quote
HURRA: I connected Pin 14 to Pin 20 and it all stod clearly :-)

You have effectively connected pins 13 & 14 now.  Just make sure that you connect pin 10 to SCART ground, otherwise your picture quality will suffer.
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mchay

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2008, 02:20:31 am »
I couldn't understand it, until I searched the internet for others who have made a VGA->SCART cable. I could then see that I was missing a cable. After soldering that on in both ends, I was up and running. It looks great. Can't wait to get the TV mounted in the cab instead of the ~20" arcade monitor.

Now I just have to find out how to enter the service menu on the old Sony TV. Can't seem to find the manual online thoug. The picture is slightly out of the picture in the bottom and I think that you can correct that in the service menu.

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2008, 04:59:17 am »
i wired up a scart lead same way as described in the topic, with the 12v and resistor inline for the 3 v
ita a phillips 21" widescreen tv im using as a vertical monitor in a cab.
ive a avga 1 card (agp)

i hooked this up to tv, and bare pc (just mb,cpu,mem and card)

switched on and i got black screen and white lines running on it fastly.(post bios screen with error as no hd installed)

i tryed with the power connected and disconnected.

any ideas what i am doing wrong??



Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2008, 05:49:23 am »
fFirstly, if you do the resistor method then you should use 5v, not 12v!

Secondly, an easier way is to just use a small wire hook pin 20 over to pin 16.  No resistor required.  The sync voltage will signal RGB mode.  Then use the 12v to pin 8 to signal AV mode.

Thirdly, it might not work with a widescreen TV.  I tried it once with my Panasonic 76cm and got the picture flashing on and off quickly.  I didn't get to explore this further, because my godson had an ice-party in my house while I was overseas and my TV + a bunch of computer gear got stolen, so now I don't have that widescreen TV with SCART input anymore  :'( 

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2008, 06:21:17 am »
I didn't get to explore this further, because my godson had an ice-party in my house while I was overseas and my TV + a bunch of computer gear got stolen, so now I don't have that widescreen TV with SCART input anymore  :'(

:o sh!t
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2008, 09:48:38 am »
sorry it was the 5v line i put resistor onto. is it anything to do with the sync? should  i twist wires and put to pin 20?

it looks like a widescreen tv but it doesnt give a 4:3 option so i guess its ordinary.

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2008, 09:56:49 am »
sorry it was the 5v line i put resistor onto. is it anything to do with the sync? should  i twist wires and put to pin 20?

it looks like a widescreen tv but it doesnt give a 4:3 option so i guess its ordinary.


Well, I've never heard of a 21" widescreen TV :)

Yes, you need to twist wires from pins VGA pins 13 & 14 to SCART pin 20, which the original diagram doesn't show.
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2008, 10:54:10 am »
I didn't get to explore this further, because my godson had an ice-party in my house while I was overseas and my TV + a bunch of computer gear got stolen, so now I don't have that widescreen TV with SCART input anymore  :'(

:o sh!t

Ah well, at least the mame cab wasn't touched - that would have really hurt!  What really hurt was stuff like the condom wrappers and cigarette papers in my 4yo daughters bed, the food thrown into the bookcase.  Oh, and that my car got stolen (recovered thankfully).  The experience shattered my ability to trust anybody.  Anyway, that was nearly 2 years ago - heck, he'll be out of jail next month (he did some other stuff as well, but enough about that!  Ice sucks, turns normal people into arseholes and makes your teeth fall out as well.  Avoid it!

Anyway, back on topic - that time with the widescreen Panasonic TV got an image, but the image flashed on and off pretty quickly.  It was the only time my cable connecting pin 20 to 16 didn't work.  As noted, I didn't get a chance to test it with a "5v+resistor" style cable.  Andy Warne seemed to think that it might be to do with the fact that it was a widescreen, rather than the cable I was using. 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 11:22:17 am by Zebidee »
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Ummon

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2008, 11:56:47 pm »
Oh, ice, like meth. Grimace. I don't think about trust. I think about whether I want anybody touching my stuff while I'm not around. (Or maybe at all.) Default answer is 'no', and generally includes family. Makes and keeps things tidy.

Back on a little here, I was talking with TOK about component video and he said that MaLa natively supports what it calls 'lo res mode 640x480'. From within MaLa, right-click and select options, and then it's GUI>display. I haven't messed with it, but it's sorta interesting.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2008, 09:08:39 am »
Ok werid problem with my Scart & TV setup, since i have first used this TV when ive turned it on its always turn straight over to the AV channel. Back last week i disconnected the scart cable from my ArcadeVGA card to try out my new monitor i bought, after testing the monitor and removing/uninstalling the Tri-Sync Utility driver (as this doesnt work for TV sets) i hooked back up my scart lead from my TV to the ArcadeVGA card, now for some strange reason when i turn on my TV now it does not automatically go to the AV channel i have to select it via the remote control!. Any ideas why this has happened?

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2008, 01:59:33 pm »
The issue is probably with your TV, not the SCART cable.

As we can recall from before, you have 5v -> SCART pin 8 -> resistor (drop to ~1.5v) -> pin 16.  If you didn't have the 5v to pin 8, then you wouldn't get 1.5v to pin 16, and therefore you wouldn't get a picture at all.  Therefore, you have 5v at pin 8. 

Clearly, then, 5v is not sufficient to trigger your TV to switch to AV mode.

If your TV powered on to AV before, but not now, then it is most likely because your TV was remembering the setting.  Therefore, you need to make it remember it again.  Try swithcing it to AV mode with the remote, then turn it off with the remote.  Then power down, and turn it on again from cold.  This might get it to remember the AV mode setting.

Otherwise, you would have to try adapting your cable or making a new one.  The new one should run 12v (via molex) to pin 8, and link pin 20 -> pin 16 with a short wire.

If the new cable doesn't work at all (but it should work), then try running 5v (from the same molex) -> 100ohm resistor -> pin 16. 
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G1zm0

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2008, 06:29:06 am »
got a good picture after trying the lead, but colours arent as vibrent as they should be, is this to do with the 100 ohm resistor, should i make it a 75 one? to take it from the 5 volts to 3 volts?

ive a prob with avga res on the tv as well , see my other post in the video section if someone could advise on that

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2008, 06:48:29 am »
got a good picture after trying the lead, but colours arent as vibrent as they should be, is this to do with the 100 ohm resistor, should i make it a 75 one? to take it from the 5 volts to 3 volts?

The voltage to SCART pin 16 is only there to trigger RGB mode.  Like binary, it is either on or off, there is no half-way.  It will have no effect on colour brightness.

However, putting resistors on the R-G-B lines WILL make your colours less vibrant.  Make sure that you don't do that unless you have a good reason.

Referring to your other post, have you tried setting switchres=1 in the mame.ini file? Make sure that any relevant [gamename].ini files have this set properly too.  Running games in 640x480 will make the colours seem less vibrant than they could be.  You can set this as a default game option in MameUI, if that is what you are using.

Otherwise, it might be that you haven't installed the drivers correctly; or even the wrong drivers, perhaps.  If quickres only gives you 640x480, then this might well be the case.  Have another look.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2008, 11:46:06 am »
thanx for info, there is no resistors in the rgb line, the avga case,
i installed the drivers that came with the card, its the windows bootscreen that flickers and says 640x480

i am using mala as front end ( need to read how to rotate this so its always vertical) was going to use atomicfe but didnt set up for me.

im a novice at doing all this and getting complicated, hopefullt persiverance will off, ive never said but it it wasnt for this site i would have been sitting with bits and nothing done.

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2008, 03:54:03 am »
Well, it looks like your SCART cable is working anyway.

Try searching the forums or putting a post in the general part of the forum (there is heaps of stuff out there about AVGA cards and frontends), so that others might give you some answers too.  Looks like you have a bunch of questions.

You might need to re-install drivers too.  Give this a go.  Use the "cat-uninstaller.exe" first (download from ATI) to make sure you clean out any ATI drivers already on your system.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2008, 05:39:48 pm »
I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20.

I think this information should go at the top with the rest. I have just fallen foul to this and fixed it this way. Here is a vid for reference. Feel free to use it as an example:

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIls_mB0lA[/youtube]

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2008, 09:02:57 am »
Ok now I look closely at mine it seems to be flickering a lot with VGA to SCART. I have noticed the colours and such look a lot better but this flickering means the composite is better overall. It also strangely chops off the top and bottom of the screen which I assume I will have to find the TVs service mode to adjust?

Has anyone any ideas what I can do about the flickering?
I am using:
Soft 15khz
Nvidia 5900

Thanks in advance

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2008, 09:09:18 am »
What resolution do you run the game in?
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2008, 02:41:17 am »
I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20.

I think this information should go at the top with the rest. I have just fallen foul to this and fixed it this way.

I second that.  But you'd need to ask the OP to change the post, and the diagram as well.  However, if one reads through the thread then you'll see what to do.  You'll also find out that there are other ways to do the VGA-SCART cable, which may work better depending upon your circumstances.

One of these days I'll get around to writing up a web page or wiki on how to do it.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2008, 05:38:32 am »
hi still cant get good colours on my tv. the reds are yellows ect but with a dvd player plugged in the colours are there so its not tv.

i am running avga 1,
i was thinking if i were to make a lead up that went from the jpac i am using to the monitor, and from avga to the jpac, and use the video amp on the jpac, would that give me better colours or wouldthat be a wast of time?

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2008, 11:30:34 am »
Hm... Display a test image.



If your red actually displays as yellow, then you got a short on RED and GREEN.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #72 on: July 30, 2008, 04:41:44 pm »
i think maby the avga isnt giving enough voltage for the tv colours, maby i need 3 volts.

if i connected through the jpac would that boost the colours

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2008, 02:22:41 am »
It's unlikely to be about AVGA voltage ... I'd go with the shorted wiring theory.  Check your wiring and soldering.

Also, I recommend using a multimeter to test resistance on your VGA cable.  If it is more than a few ohms, then scrap it, find a new cable and start again.  I've had to do this a few times.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2008, 05:32:26 am »
tested for shorts , everything buzed out ok, i thought i had a short but turned out to be the 2 syncs that were tristed together.soldering ok to

i take it its nothing to do with the 100 ohm resistor? making it lower wouldnt do anything would it?

i used meter to do resistance on cable,  all low about 1.x

going to try adding it to jpac and using its video amp

update:
ive took another cable apart , what do i do with the rgb return wires?
i take it these are grounds? so would i just connect them all together to video ground? or do i just disreguard them?

where do i connect the shield wire to?

do i need to add resistors in line with the rgb as ive read in a previous post in this section or is it ok to try without these
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 04:47:20 pm by G1zm0 »

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #75 on: July 31, 2008, 05:54:14 pm »
ok heres whats happend.

the new cable i used was female so i could attatch to the male (scart part)

i soldered the rgb,comp sync to the parts on the jamma connector, plugged the m & f together, put lead from avga to jpac.

switched on and nothing, just blank screen. :banghead:

disconnected the leads and put the old one on, nothing all i get is a few flashes on the tv, but dvd player works ok

havent tested yet to see if its the lead and i dont know how to test the avga (v1) as it dont display on a pc mon. :dunno

now im goosed  :badmood:

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #76 on: July 31, 2008, 10:44:54 pm »
i take it its nothing to do with the 100 ohm resistor? making it lower wouldnt do anything would it?

No, so long as your resistor is between pin 8 - pin 16.  This has no effect on the RGB signals.  It just tells the TV to expect RGB input.

Quote
update:
ive took another cable apart , what do i do with the rgb return wires?
i take it these are grounds? so would i just connect them all together to video ground? or do i just disreguard them?

where do i connect the shield wire to?

RGB 'returns' are indeed grounds and must be connected to ground.  Twist all the grounds together (ie VGA 6,7,8,10,+shield), and solder them to a convenient ground pin on the male SCART, such as blue ground (SCART 5) or even audio ground (SCART 4).  This includes the VGA cable's shield wire.    If these grounds aren't connected, then this could account for your colour problems.

(Make sure that you *don't* hook any of the VGA monitor ID wires to ground - ie VGA pins 11,12,15 - just snip them off).

If you hook up your VGA cable to the AVGA card and use a multimeter diode test on the various ground wires (while the PC is turned off, of course), then you'll find that all the grounds are connected (common) at the AVGA card anyway.  On most TVs, all the SCART grounds are connected as well.  With this bit of insight, you'll realise that you can simply twist all the VGA grounds together and connect to a single ground pin on the SCART. 

It occurs to me that if you take blue from green, then you get yellow.  This might give you some insight as to why your reds appear yellow.  I still think that you are looking at something wrong with your wiring connections.

Quote
do i need to add resistors in line with the rgb as ive read in a previous post in this section or is it ok to try without these

No need for resistors on RGB signals unless you are connecting up a JPAC to the TV, which is a bit of a waste of effort.  JPACs amplify the signal, making it too high for SCART TV standards (potentially damaging the TV).  So you would need to lower it again, therefore the need for a resistor.  I've actually done this before very successfully in a couple of special cabinets with SCART input monitors to allow them to accept JAMMA standard PCBs, but this was a special case.  However, note that Andy of Ultimarc does not personally recommend using JPACs like this, and there is simply no need for you to hook up a JPAC to your TV. 

Quote
the new cable i used was female so i could attach to the male (scart part)

i soldered the rgb,comp sync to the parts on the jamma connector, plugged the m & f together, put lead from avga to jpac.

I don't really understand what you've done here or why .... just stick to a simple male VGA -> male SCART cable, and you should be fine.  Make sure that you connect all the grounds.

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2008, 03:41:54 am »
ok , thanx for input, i was/did connect scart to jpac, but as i said gave me black screen, so i tested avga and tv
both seem fine, so i am now going to take scart apart and start again.

the resistor isnt between the 2 pins you mentioned, its only on the 5v line, no other resistors are conected

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2008, 07:30:03 am »
What is the 5v line + resistor connected to then?
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2008, 11:24:11 am »
i redid scart lead and twisted all grounds together and solderd to a ground point, cable worked nicely with correct colours.

uninstalled the avga drivers and i get all resolutions now .

and also changed tvs geometry and get nice screen that is in size with windows desktop.

thanx for help guys  :applaud:

now to try fix my coinmech that dont work and a few microswitches, install hifi with speakers, pc power off button,

and hide windows ect, prob take me another few months, got this arcade in march lol

still another 2 to finish after this one. never mind ill get there one day lol
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 04:41:24 am by G1zm0 »

  
 

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