Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: How to use SCART for our hobby  (Read 242975 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

apfelanni

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 01:55:28 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #360 on: January 09, 2012, 03:31:43 pm »
todays test subject : philips 25pt4513 02 , chassis md1.2 , mf date around 1998-99.

pro : good picture , nice colors , sharpness and geometry ,a solid chassis ( and tube, the philips eak may be the best european lowres tubes u can get ) , displays nearly any resolution of the hacked catalyst pack .

cons : massive 2 part + breakout pcbs chassis , servicemode accessible via service remote or shorting 2 servicepins on the chassis ( grundig is more the idiotproof osd type and contains smaller , but maybe cheaper chassis ) . shots taken with 49 euro cam , so they are not 100 % accurate :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 02:44:49 pm by apfelanni »

Paradroid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Last login:March 10, 2024, 04:41:43 am
    • SCART Hunter
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #361 on: January 10, 2012, 04:24:40 pm »
Damn that looks good! Thanks for the report! Those images look fantastic. Great colors and the focus seems to go all the way to the edges. Very nice!

I wish that I could find a Phillips like that... Australians have heaps of Sonys and Phillips going in the trash but most are the yellow/red/white RCA variety with no SCART ports. :(
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

apfelanni

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 01:55:28 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #362 on: January 11, 2012, 02:44:10 pm »
today i did some more testing with the nokia test program . i noticed there are a few lines on the top missing . i only did some rough testing ingame mame yesterday and idiot me screwed the tv back together , so i cant reach the service pins anymore. i was afraid the tube getting necked . next time i de-torx the case its gonna end up replacing the samsung weiya in my ok baby cab . i also ordered a substitute tv dealer service remote for 20 euro . for the original philips remote they ask around 100 euro , so that wasnt an option . i tried to take a snap of the windows interlaced desktop , but realized the cam shows some missing lines the eye wont even notice. but i would say the interlaced 640x480 output is sharper than most of the cheap china brand naomi vga screens i had running in progressive mode ( not to mention theire geometry faults) . the used mamescart cable isnt of the best quality . i took a cable of a broken pc monitor , twisted the sync and bridged pin 20 to 16 for rgb toggle. all my better cables are cabbed or given to friends with zero soldering skills . i hope the mamescart cable soldering is soon coming to an end and the slg engineering crew is presenting a pcb for plug and play. i would prefer to spend the saved time playing my cabs than inhaling lead nebula ..
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 04:43:43 pm by apfelanni »

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #363 on: January 11, 2012, 08:37:15 pm »
@apfelanni

Those screenshots look great! Very nice.
Check out my completed projects!


Calamity

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7411
  • Last login:March 14, 2024, 05:26:05 am
  • Quote me with care
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #364 on: January 12, 2012, 04:37:11 pm »
@apfelanni,

If you're using the modded ATI drivers, try recalculating the modelines increasing the vertical back porch, that might solve your missing lines at the top issue.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Paradroid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Last login:March 10, 2024, 04:41:43 am
    • SCART Hunter
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #365 on: January 16, 2012, 12:19:01 am »
MAME/SCART enthusiasts: I've started a blog!

http://scarthunter.blogspot.com/

It's off to a slow start due to all the fun I've been having in the Aussie sun. However, I have quite a backlog of TVs that I'm working my way through (testing, comparing, selling, etc.) and I hope to write about them I progress.

No doubt I'll get more time to fiddle and document when the weather gets cooler and the days shorter... thankfully not for a while yet. ;)

Enjoy!
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #366 on: January 27, 2012, 09:38:12 am »
I managed to snag a Sony KV-25K5U TV from eBay this week for a grand total of 99p! I hadn't even read apfelanni's post about the KV series of Sony TVs before I pick this Sony up so was a spot of luck that it has one of the best chassis for Mame!. The picture is really something else and blows away my other 2 TV I have for Mame (Sharp & Bush), and these 2 other TVs are a hell of a lot newer not just in age but usage aswell and the Sony still beats them!.

I would love to see what the Sony would have looked like when new as I'm guessing the picture might not be as sharp and vivid as it was when new. I have noticed that the Sony takes around 5-8 seconds to display a picture when turned on I guess this is a sign of the TV being old and well used?, why does this happen? Would a cap kit for the Sony (if one is available?) bring any sharpness or vividness loss back to the TV and decrease the amount of time it take for a pic to be displayed when turned on?

None of these are massive problems really and as I said the picture is still amazing, but this TV is defiantly a keeper so would like to give it some TLC 

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #367 on: January 29, 2012, 04:12:52 pm »
apfelanni, any ideas how the FE-1A chassis of the Sony KV-29FX20U fares??

SailorSat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1208
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:28:00 pm
    • For Amusement Only e.V.
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #368 on: January 30, 2012, 01:05:57 am »
i would prefer to spend the saved time playing my cabs than inhaling lead nebula ..
But thats the best part of it after all  :duckhunt
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


apfelanni

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 01:55:28 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #369 on: January 30, 2012, 05:24:20 pm »
sorry , the only sonys i checked were some kv25 and 29x models. it appears sony used different names for their tv models in euro and uk zone . 90 % of the old 4:3 sonys on ebay germany are kv x1,2,3,4,5 . but ur right with one thing . both my 25 inch sonys arent 100 % sharp . i havnt tried to adjust the focus yet , but it may be a consequence of aging electronic parts. i cant tell how sharp they are when leaving the factory , never bought a new one . but compared to some 10-20 year old philips they appear to weaken much more in sharpness , especially the bigger ones . on the other hand i tested 3 50 hertz philips and all of them had noticable sharper images than a grundig with the same tube . if they hadnt sold b-grade tubes to their daughter ( grundig ) it must be chassis related . there always pros an cons on different manufacturers and their models . as an alternative try a 25 or 28 inch philips 4xxx or 5xxx series with the rock solid old eak tubes . u may find lots of em for 1 euro on ebay . 

 

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #370 on: January 31, 2012, 03:56:50 pm »
Ok thanks for the info, would you say the 4 and 5 series philips are the next best thing to the sonys then?

apfelanni

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 01:55:28 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #371 on: January 31, 2012, 05:07:51 pm »
the 4xxx and 5xxx philips are the 50/60 hertz models from 1995 - 200x around .  u ll find the philips tubes in loewe , metz or grundig.
i d say take what u can get ur hands on . metz and loewe were premium in quality of chassis , philips and grundig more the midrange price sector . for cabinet monitor replacement i usually take grundig , coz they are the most common her in ger , cheap ( mostly 1 euro on ebay , while people ask bout 10-20 euro for a metz or a philips ) and they are the easiest to handle . u can dismantle them in a few minutes , all is idiot proof and very well documented . metz and philips made it more difficult to take the tv apart ( philips with microtorx , grundig with 6 ordinary srews , philips osd via service remote ,metz via tricky combinations on the front panel , grundig just via " 8500 " input per remote. the difference in picture quality is minor . i d say give it a shot . philips uk was the last great location for tube fabricating . nearly all bigger grundigs mf after 2k had philips/ lg tubes made in uk , because the german tube factory was closed at this point and the french was following shortly. so dont tell me u cant find any 50-60 hertz 4:3 tvs  in the uk . dunno what they most sell in the uk . toshiba or orion may also be worth a try . toshibas are always my first choice in tubes .  ill try to avoid samsungs and thomson . today i dumped my ok baby 29 inch samsung in the junk . it wasnt that bad , good as new , no burns , but i hated it . i could never handle the geometry to my satisfaction and the tube mask looked somehow terrible on lowres games like neogeo . the 25 inch philips will fit in tomorrow. 


   

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #372 on: February 01, 2012, 08:23:21 am »
Interesting info!! Yeah over here in the UK around the time of CRT's the mainstream players where...

Sony
Toshiba
Hitachi
Philips
Panasonic
JVC
Sharp

Then u had the budget boys.....

Bush
Thomson
Ferguson
Goodmans
Daewoo
Sanyo

Just beacuse the badge was on the front of the TV never ment the chassis or tube was made by the same company!, of course back then I was none the wiser!. Loewe , Metz were non existant in the UK and Grundig were hard to find.

Now at the moment I only have 3 CRTs in testing.....

Bush RF2185NTXSIL/A
Sharp 21HT15H
Sony KV-25K5U

I have notice both the bush and sharp TVs really don't have a stable picture when running my NTSC SNES through them via Scart, the overal picture is jittering ever so very slightly but the Sony picture is rock solid!, any ideas why the bush and sharp have this unstable picture? Also both the bush and sharp have this weird contrast effect where the picture seem to jump up in brightness or darkness all of a sudden, say for example there's any explosion in a game then the contrast of the picture seems to jump up and then back down again, this never happens with the Sony!?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 08:27:03 am by lettuce »

apfelanni

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 01:55:28 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #373 on: February 01, 2012, 03:26:49 pm »
toshiba,hitachi and panasonic may be worth a try , but most of  2k+ tvs were 100 hertz models. u can find those identical tubes in lots of candy cabs in the combination toshiba chassis + tube , nanao chassis and toshi tube or nanao chassis + hitachi or mitsubishi tube . the famous eizo computer crts used hitachi tubes as well.

i m not sure whats up with sharp and jvc . some say jvc tvs are made with crap chassis made in turkey , like the after 2005 ( beko , vestel ) grundigs . so far i experienced the rebranded cheapass china or eastern europe tvs are nothin but waste of time . 5 $ chassis + tube made in tadschikistan > epic fail .

today i mounted the philips tube into the ok baby monitor frame via some l-profiles i had laying around . a first mockup was fine , it needs only little adjustments with the bezel . tomorrow i ll fix the chassis on the new plywood chassis board ,connect the speakers to the onboard stereo audio amp etc. compared to sony or grundig the philips chassis is a little oversized , but for horizontal orientation that doesnt matter . for vertical setups the chassis in jap cabs are usually mounted 1/3 , 2/3 , so they wont interfere with the casing . good thing i have 50+? of tvs to pick from .



« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 04:27:19 pm by apfelanni »

Paradroid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Last login:March 10, 2024, 04:41:43 am
    • SCART Hunter
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #374 on: February 02, 2012, 07:11:17 am »
metz and loewe were premium in quality of chassis , philips and grundig more the midrange price sector

I can attest to that! Up until recently I had a pile of Loewes with the E3000 chassis. The different Grundigs (in Grundig, Siemens and Blaupunkt TVs) I've tried have been more compatible but, man, the E3000 is so damn sharp and stable! I hooked up my Contour 1470 with an E3000 tonight and was reminded of how good the image is. Just a crying shame I can't work out how to get 240+ vertical lines showing on it. :( The geometry is absolutely perfect (not sure what the tube model is but the Phillips in the Contur smokes the EAKs in the CT1170s I have. It's flatter and better geometry without doubt.) The other thing with the Loewes is that the picture doesn't "bulge" near as much when bright flashes appear in games. The Grundigs will dim briefly everytime Strider flashes his sword!

@apfelanni: Have you tried any Loewes with the E3000 chassis? I'd love to know if you were able to get 240 vertical lines showing properly without any missing lines at the top or bottom.
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #375 on: February 03, 2012, 05:36:25 pm »
Is the E3000 chassis digital??...i think this bulge and dim effect you talk about is due to the digital chassis!. I have this dim and brighten effect on both my Sharp and Bush TV...but the Sony none of this what so ever!! I just wish there was someway to rotate the display just a few degress so it square!...does the CCC has an option for the ATI gfx card to rotate the display in degrees??

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #376 on: February 04, 2012, 07:19:29 pm »
I can also attest to the Loewe's with the Philips screens and E3000 chassis as being superior to most or all other brands.

I've used a few Loewes in cabs before. My best friend is still using a Loewe in the cab I made for him in 2006! I have also used the Philips screens, from Loewe and other brands, combined with brand new a Sharp SI custom arcade chassis in several cabs.

I am also currently using a 26" Loewe in my vertical cab. However, I don't use this nearly as much as my main horz cab. With this Loewe, I do notice a dot-crawl on red and there is a thin strip (1/2 cm wide) of discolouration on the top of the screen (actually the left as it is vertically mounted) that my local Loewe service guy had no simple explanation for.

I have used a couple of Thomsons in cabs and found them to be really impressive. Quite simple electronics but gets the job done. I am currently using a 20" Thomson TV in a vertical cab, fitted with a 48-in-1 chassis and operating daily in the amenities/lunch room at my office! It has been working well for 2-3 year now.

Check out my completed projects!


Paradroid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Last login:March 10, 2024, 04:41:43 am
    • SCART Hunter
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #377 on: February 05, 2012, 01:15:17 am »
I can also attest to the Loewe's with the Philips screens and E3000 chassis as being superior to most or all other brands.

Zebidee, the pics of your cabs make me drool! :notworthy: The "PRINCESS ARCADE GAMES CABINET" in particular does big things for me.

However, what I am dying to know is this: have you ever managed to get 256 vertical lines showing correctly with an E3000 chassis?! If it weren't for the fact that I can't get every line of R-Type to show on an E3000 I'd end the search for the perfect monitor right now.

If you get a chance, I'd love for you to spend some time testing how many lines you can get an E3000 to show. If you succeed, I'd be mighty interested in knowing what settings and switches you used. As it stands, even 240 line games have missing lines for me. Adjusting the V-Size simply shrinks a cropped image (on my Grundigs adjusting the Height reveals the missing lines).

BTW, I'm using Arcade_OSD, crt_emudriver and GroovyMAME for my testing (and playing ;) ).
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #378 on: February 10, 2012, 07:08:04 pm »
I can also attest to the Loewe's with the Philips screens and E3000 chassis as being superior to most or all other brands.

Zebidee, the pics of your cabs make me drool! :notworthy: The "PRINCESS ARCADE GAMES CABINET" in particular does big things for me.

Thanks! That Princess cab was one of my favourites to restore. Deep scratches in the 70's wood veneer responded really well to acrylic wood putty mixed with light brown acrylic paint being rubbed in. Popped a TEAC TV into it and had a new control panel done up by a metal shop. Got some Pacman-inspired art professionally printed for the control panel surface and marquee. Sold it for $500, even without a PC.

I haven't done much arcade stuff  for a while and most of my cabs have been sold now. I only have four remaining: Wonder Boy (5th from left, new 20" arcade monitor, fully JAMMA original Gottlieb cab w/ WBoy PCB), the vertical cab with Donkey Kong Jnr in the picture (8th from left, has the 26" Loewe) and the dark blue one (10th from left, 27" Sony professional video monitor). Oh, and a vertical cab with 20" Thomson TV and 48-in-1 PCB in the lunch room at work (not pictured).

Quote
However, what I am dying to know is this: have you ever managed to get 256 vertical lines showing correctly with an E3000 chassis?! If it weren't for the fact that I can't get every line of R-Type to show on an E3000 I'd end the search for the perfect monitor right now.

If you get a chance, I'd love for you to spend some time testing how many lines you can get an E3000 to show. If you succeed, I'd be mighty interested in knowing what settings and switches you used. As it stands, even 240 line games have missing lines for me. Adjusting the V-Size simply shrinks a cropped image (on my Grundigs adjusting the Height reveals the missing lines).

Hmmm, I don't recall ever having problems with getting 256 lines on other Loewes I have used.

The Loewe in my vertical is the only one I currently have. It is a Calida 5763, but on re-inspection it turns out that this is a 'Blackline' series Q414 chassis, which is actually a 100hz digital chassis. I did this cab many years ago. Technically very nice except for the dot-crawl on red that I mentioned previously. It manages 256 lines easily (just tested it).

Quote
BTW, I'm using Arcade_OSD, crt_emudriver and GroovyMAME for my testing (and playing ;) ).

I have never used these so can't really comment. However, I would suggest that you access your Loewe's service mode and try to (cautiously) play with the geometry to eliminate any overscan. You could also look at your back/front porch settings when creating video modes.
Check out my completed projects!


Paradroid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Last login:March 10, 2024, 04:41:43 am
    • SCART Hunter
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #379 on: February 10, 2012, 07:30:08 pm »
@Zebidee: thanks for taking the time comment on the Loewes. I have to say I'm surprised that you haven't encountered this problem. However, you've given me the enthusiasm to get back in there and see if I can get 256 lines up and running. As I've mentioned, I have other TVs that will do 256 but none match the image quality of the Loewes (the E3000 in particular).

I've tried the Q414 and didn't like it. I started this whole caper with a 100 Hz Calida and thought that was fantastic. However, I found an E3000 Contur on the side of the street, tried that and there was no turning back. That was a revelation. Now I just can't stand the colour bleed and crawl of those later models, despite the awesome tubes and perfect focus. The E3001 is also good (same as the E3000 but with the menu system of the later models) but after that the crappy image processing junk got introduced.

Also, thanks for the details on the Princess Cab! My dream is to build something like that from scratch one day. I definitely love that wood grain vibe contrasting with some day glo buttons and artwork. Kitsch, I know, but it just takes me somewhere else! :) If you have some larger photos, I'd love for you to email me some one day.

After reading your post, I'm gonna check out the Loewe vertical line limit issue again soon and let you know how I go... would be great if that could be overcome!

Oh, and BTW, you really should check out GroovyMAME sometime! ;)
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

Steve248

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Last login:November 18, 2013, 06:24:13 am
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #380 on: March 05, 2012, 06:01:59 pm »
Hi,

My motovation for this post is I have just a new ArcadeVGA http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html card and do not want to blow it up!

I bought a Sony Trinitron 27" TV (KV-29X5D) recently and want to connect it to the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card and have read all of this thread but also got some advice from Andy at Ultimarc who suggested this post: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000007.htm

I have followed the instructions on the website above as much as I can but could really do with some help to make sure I am doing everything correctly. I have attached an image from that link (I hope that is ok).

VGA 5 (Ground) > Scart Isolated (I have no idea what this means?)
VGA 10 > Scart Isolated (Once again, I do not know what this means.)
VGA Shield > Scart 21 (Shell / Ground) (Does this mean join the casing on both the Scart lead to the VGA casing?)

Above are the main questions I have. Can someone help me to understand what I am supposed to do with these?

Secondly, am I doing the right thing using this configuration fo ArcadeVGA with a Sony KV-29X5D?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated before I do something really stupid  :-\

Many thanks in advance...


joecontra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
  • Last login:June 12, 2013, 07:55:22 am
    • VGA-SCART -- articles by joecontra
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #381 on: April 04, 2012, 05:01:57 pm »
Maybe you should use an other schematic.
I attached the one I use.

Regards,
joecontra

« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 03:53:39 pm by joecontra »
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

Steve248

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Last login:November 18, 2013, 06:24:13 am
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #382 on: April 06, 2012, 04:07:39 pm »
Thank you, I will try.

This is so odd, this was a really active thread and now totally dead. This is really useful stuff.

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #383 on: April 06, 2012, 11:54:11 pm »
I try to monitor the thread, but don't have the same time anymore sinc doing back to full time work. Last month has been really busy as well.

However, most of these wiring questions have all be asked and answered before on this thread.

Steve, I find that schematic your first put up too confusing. The one joe contra posted is a better guide. However, you don't need to worry about the transistors and resistors on the sync line if you are using an arcadevga card or any ATI card. nVIDIA cards can also be used, so long as you make sure they are outputting on negative sync for both horz and vertical. in fact, any card will work so long as it is outputting on double negative.

However, you will need the 100ohm resistor on the wire going into SCART pin 16. also note that unless you have an arcadevga or some other ATIcard, you won't get 5v from VGA pin 9. A surer way to build your cable is with external 5v power source from an internal PC power connector.

Many tvs will work if you just put a wire bridge between Scart pins 16 and 20, which is a heck of a lot simpler and definitely worth a try.
Check out my completed projects!


joecontra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
  • Last login:June 12, 2013, 07:55:22 am
    • VGA-SCART -- articles by joecontra
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #384 on: April 07, 2012, 06:08:45 am »
Steve248
Thank you, I will try.
This is so odd, this was a really active thread and now totally dead. This is really useful stuff.

I'm here now, I keep eye on topic. :)


Zebidee
unless you have an arcadevga or some other ATIcard, you won't get 5v from VGA pin 9
I'm using NVIDIA card, and it provides +5V from pin 9.

you will need the 100ohm resistor on the wire going into SCART pin 16
It's in the diagram. :)

make sure they are outputting on negative sync for both horz and vertical
I saw some cases where the card didn't give negative sync, and it didn't let change this option.
With my card there is no problem with that.
But if the card provides only positive snyc signals there's also a solution, this one:



This is a sync merger circuit which is independent from the polarity of the incoming sync signals. On the output it gives only negative C-Sync.
To build this circuit is not that hard as it seems. I attached an image of it including an EEPROM chip.

Regards,
joecontra
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 06:32:34 am by joecontra »
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

Paradroid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Last login:March 10, 2024, 04:41:43 am
    • SCART Hunter
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #385 on: April 07, 2012, 08:29:32 am »
This is so odd, this was a really active thread and now totally dead.

All it needs is new blood like you to bring it back to life! ;)

Another schematic that comes highly recommended can be found here.

Also, plenty of SCART action going on over in the GroovyMAME forum.

Oh, be sure to check out my blog too. :)
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #386 on: April 07, 2012, 03:43:01 pm »
Many tvs will work if you just put a wire bridge between Scart pins 16 and 20, which is a heck of a lot simpler and definitely worth a try.

So would the diagram attached be correct for a ATI card??

Also whats the black ?wire that comes from VGA pin 10 and goes to pin 17 and bridges to pin 18 on the scart?

joecontra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
  • Last login:June 12, 2013, 07:55:22 am
    • VGA-SCART -- articles by joecontra
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #387 on: April 07, 2012, 03:46:23 pm »
So would the diagram attached be correct for a ATI card??
If you lead voltage from SCART 20 to SCART 16 (what I would not do), then why giving power from the VGA too?

Also whats the black ?wire that comes from VGA pin 10 and goes to pin 17 and bridges to pin 18 on the scart?
These are GND pins.

I noticed that a cable with the BC548B gives better picture than the one with the twisted sync wires.

Regards,
joecontra
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 03:50:44 pm by joecontra »
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #388 on: April 07, 2012, 05:35:43 pm »
So would the diagram attached be correct for a ATI card??
If you lead voltage from SCART 20 to SCART 16 (what I would not do), then why giving power from the VGA too?

Its just what Zebidee suggested bridging pins 20 and 16 together. So if i did bridge pins 20 and 16 then i dont need wire in Pin 9 on the VGA ti pin 16 on the scart?

Paradroid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Last login:March 10, 2024, 04:41:43 am
    • SCART Hunter
UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
« Reply #389 on: April 07, 2012, 08:48:36 pm »
Breaking news!

I think it might be time to retire from building VGA to SCART cables. Gonna be hard to top this awesome little device in terms of features and price:



For sale over at ArcadeForge: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 08:38:58 am by Paradroid »
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #390 on: April 07, 2012, 11:24:54 pm »
@paradroid

That little umsa VGA-Scart device is pretty cool, thanks for posting up the link. Quite impressive, although I note that the price does not include the 5v power supply, nor the VGA and male-male Scart cables. 29 euros is cheap enough to make it competitive and a real option to building one's own cable, but the add-ons make it less attractive. They could easily add 10-25 euros to the cost, depending upon where you get them.

I had a look at your link to that other Scart cable with the 1k ohm resistors on sync. that might actually be a solution to the vague problems I have with 100hz Loewe tv in my vertical cab. worth a try.

@lettuce if you bridge Scart 20 - 16 then you can bypass the 5v power altogether. trouble is, it only works for some tvs. it is quite easy to make this kind of cable so it is worth a try. I have several different types of vga-scart cables on hand to use when testing tvs.

@joe contra what is bc548b again?
Quote
joe contra
Zebidee

you will need the 100ohm resistor on the wire going into SCART pin 16
It's in the diagram. :)

yeeeaaaah!  That's why I put the "the" in there. Just confirming that one needs to keep that one, even if you get rid of the other resistors & transistor in the diagram (ironically, I was trying to avoid confusion).

Quote
joe

make sure they are outputting on negative sync for both horz and vertical
I saw some cases where the card didn't give negative sync, and it didn't let change this option.
With my card there is no problem with that.


Yeah. Video cards for make are so cheap these days, so it is probably easiest to just buy a compatible ATI or other card. On the soft15khz thread there's is a link to a list of cards tested to be compatible with soft15khz, and this is a good place to start.

The nVIDIA cards have an option to adjust sync in the control panel software driver thingy. It has been a while since I have tried to use nVIDIA cards though.

When I used the powerstrip software, it always gave an option to adjust sync polarity regardless of the card.

That sync converter is pretty noice, but still a lot more trouble than twisting wires! I've managed to avoid sync converters for all of my cabs so far. Still, pretty good to be able to do it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 11:34:07 pm by Zebidee »
Check out my completed projects!


Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #391 on: April 07, 2012, 11:41:17 pm »
I also noticed that the Arcadeforge site sells a soft15khz dongle to make high-end video cards compatible with soft15khz.

I wonder what it does exactly ... And what it might do to the sync signals. It may actually be a cheaper way to make a video card compatible with simpler VGA-Scart cables (and therefore avoid the need to solder up sync converting PCBs).

http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/index.php?cPath=10
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 11:43:34 pm by Zebidee »
Check out my completed projects!


lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
« Reply #392 on: April 08, 2012, 03:46:29 am »
Breaking news!

I think it might be time to retire from building VGA to SCART tables. Gonna be hard to top this awesome little device in terms of features and price:



For sale over at ArcadeForge: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter

Great find my friend!, one thing that bugs the hell out of me though is it requires a external power supply. He could of drawn the power from pin 9 on the VGA side if the user was using an ATI card :-(

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #393 on: April 08, 2012, 04:37:03 am »
@paradroid

I had a look at your link to that other Scart cable with the 1k ohm resistors on sync. that might actually be a solution to the vague problems I have with 100hz Loewe tv in my vertical cab. worth a try.

So rather that soldering a 1k resistor on to each of the sync wires, could you just solder 1 2k resistor to pin 20 of the Scart and solder the 2 sync wires to the other end of the 2k resistor?

apfelanni

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 01:55:28 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #394 on: April 08, 2012, 04:39:53 am »
taking the voltage of pin 9 has several disadvantages. u need a card delivering 5 volt , a fully wired cable and after all u dont have 12 volt for correct av switch. so it features an external power supply or molex if u prefer taking 5-12 volt from ur pc .

im currently runnig a first test sample in my ok baby cab with the 25 inch sony tv . the auto power on tv-pc works great . guess i ll replace the second selfbuild cable in the other philips ok baby in the future . i kept the jpac for keyboard encoding , video and audio are running through the umsa device to the scart in of the tv chassis .

ps. chinese power supply , vga and scart cable is what usually everyone has laying around somewhere. u may combine vga and scart cable fitting to ur purpose , i took a 50 cm vga and a 1 m scart for example and kept the cables as short as possible. the idea was  to leave it to the customer to pick cable length and quality he prefers. a chinese external power supply may cost 3 dollar and can be found anywhere.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 04:52:20 am by apfelanni »

SailorSat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1208
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:28:00 pm
    • For Amusement Only e.V.
Re: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
« Reply #395 on: April 08, 2012, 04:56:34 am »
Great find my friend!, one thing that bugs the hell out of me though is it requires a external power supply. He could of drawn the power from pin 9 on the VGA side if the user was using an ATI card :-(

Any and i repeat, any, VGA card made after 1995 (and calling itself VESA compatible) is required to deliver the 5V on Pin9. I've encountered like 2 or 3 card till today that don't supply 5v. (ironically ATI Rage 2c :))
Sadly the output on the VGA is too low to power both the 5v-to-12v and the XOR gate.


I wonder what it does exactly ... And what it might do to the sync signals.
Nothing with the sync. Actually everything is straight through except for the DDC Pins (12 and 15 iirc) and supply (9 and 14).
The dongle provides a "valid" EDID signature required by GeForce 8 and newer nvidia cards.

ATI cards don't require a valid EDID
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #396 on: April 08, 2012, 06:03:26 am »
ps. chinese power supply , vga and scart cable is what usually everyone has laying around somewhere. u may combine vga and scart cable fitting to ur purpose , i took a 50 cm vga and a 1 m scart for example and kept the cables as short as possible. the idea was  to leave it to the customer to pick cable length and quality he prefers. a chinese external power supply may cost 3 dollar and can be found anywhere.

VGA and 5v PSU might be cheap, but expect to pay $5 each for these unless you have spares lying around. Which I probably do, but then I'd have to eventually buy new ones to replace the spares I use. There is a cost to everything, even if it is hidden (BTW, in my day job I am an economist & policy analyst ...).

You would need the right type of plug for your PSU as well, although you could just solder the wires to the board (a somewhat barbaric approach).

It is the male-male Scart cable which would be the biggest add-on cost. I've never found them cheap, although there might be something reasonable on eBay I guess.

Edit: found a 3m male-male Scart cable for $4.59 + $4.59 postage so $9 for that.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 06:08:53 am by Zebidee »
Check out my completed projects!


Zebidee

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3239
  • Last login:Today at 04:52:37 pm
Re: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
« Reply #397 on: April 08, 2012, 06:22:17 am »
I wonder what it does exactly ... And what it might do to the sync signals.
Nothing with the sync. Actually everything is straight through except for the DDC Pins (12 and 15 iirc) and supply (9 and 14).
The dongle provides a "valid" EDID signature required by GeForce 8 and newer nvidia cards.

ATI cards don't require a valid EDID
[/quote]

Ahh, now that is interesting.

VGA pin 14 is vertical sync. But on looking at the pinout i see that it is also a "data clock", so I guess that it has something to do with the valid EDID signature?

Sailor, I wasn't aware that 5v availability on pin 9 was so prevalent. Such a shame that many VGA cables don't bother to include pin 9.
Check out my completed projects!


joecontra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
  • Last login:June 12, 2013, 07:55:22 am
    • VGA-SCART -- articles by joecontra
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #398 on: April 08, 2012, 06:34:17 am »
lettuce
So if i did bridge pins 20 and 16 then i dont need wire in Pin 9 on the VGA ti pin 16 on the scart?
Yeah, as you say.

Zebidee
what is bc548b again?
It's a transistor which merges the horizontal and vertical sync signals. It's in the schematic I linked before. This solution only works if both sync signals are negative.

That's why I put the "the" in there.
You're right, I misunderstood you. :)

When I used the powerstrip software, it always gave an option to adjust sync polarity regardless of the card.
That's right. The option is there but in some cases it just doesn't let change to negative, no matter how many times I push the "-" button.

Still, pretty good to be able to do it.
Thanks. It isn't that hard to build as it looks. It's good in cases where not even with PowerStrip the sync polarity changable is.
I tested it with my integrated GeForce 6150, changed both sync polarities to positive and there still was a nice picture on the TV.

I also tried it with a card GeForce 8600 GT, that even in PowerStrip didn't let change sync polarities. The circuit worked fine. There was a good image on the TV. It just had to be positioned.
my site about VGA-SCART stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home

lettuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Last login:December 31, 2021, 01:46:10 pm
  • Make It So!
Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #399 on: April 08, 2012, 06:58:08 am »
taking the voltage of pin 9 has several disadvantages. u need a card delivering 5 volt , a fully wired cable and after all u dont have 12 volt for correct av switch. so it features an external power supply or molex if u prefer taking 5-12 volt from ur pc .

im currently runnig a first test sample in my ok baby cab with the 25 inch sony tv . the auto power on tv-pc works great . guess i ll replace the second selfbuild cable in the other philips ok baby in the future . i kept the jpac for keyboard encoding , video and audio are running through the umsa device to the scart in of the tv chassis .

ps. chinese power supply , vga and scart cable is what usually everyone has laying around somewhere. u may combine vga and scart cable fitting to ur purpose , i took a 50 cm vga and a 1 m scart for example and kept the cables as short as possible. the idea was  to leave it to the customer to pick cable length and quality he prefers. a chinese external power supply may cost 3 dollar and can be found anywhere.

So what advantages does this device have over say building your own VGA to Scart cable then?. It will obviously be cheaper to build you won cable?, as the extra parts your need to buy in order to use the UMSA (VGA 2 VGA and Scart 2 scart cable) you can make your won cable from?

A really neat idea would be if the creator of the UMSA could have an option so it has a brack attached to it like a GFX card, so you could actuall fit it inside your MAME PC!?