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Author Topic: How to use SCART for our hobby  (Read 242875 times)

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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #240 on: July 02, 2010, 09:20:51 am »
Try the molex power first, especially 5v+100ohm resistor => 2v at SCART 16. Then see if that works.
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wilch

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #241 on: July 02, 2010, 12:07:07 pm »
i managed to get an image without molex power, but i'm having other problems. im writing about this on 3 different threads now so i'll link to this one: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.1880

check that out if you'r interested. any help is appreciated, thank you

wilch

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #242 on: July 30, 2010, 09:09:12 am »
i'm starting fresh on a new vga-rgb scart. my new vga cable arrived and it seems much better quality than the last. pin 9 is present and the RGB wires each have their own shielding.
can i use vga pin 9 instead of bridging scart 16 - 20? does a radeon 9250 pin 9 give out 5v?

UPDATE: on closer inspection i've realised this cable is designed differently. vga grounding pins 6,7,8,10 all share a common link with each other and the shielding/casing. there is a small sheet of metal connecting the pins, but there are no wires. the shielded RGB wires have an additional wire wrapped around them within the shielding which i may be able to solder to the corresponding scart RGB grounding pins. would it be ok having all ground pins on both vga and scart side being linked. there is no wire coming from vga pin 5 at all

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #243 on: July 30, 2010, 08:16:14 pm »
i'm starting fresh on a new vga-rgb scart. my new vga cable arrived and it seems much better quality than the last. pin 9 is present and the RGB wires each have their own shielding.

Experience has taught me to always check the VGA cables with a multimeter set to 'ohms' before starting the job. Anything more that a few ohms resistance, especially on the sync, can cause noticeable problems. This can sometimes even be a problem with purchased VGA extension cables. I've tracked issues to this before, after much frustration and head-scratching. (caveat: some, e.g. Sailorsat, actually seem to suggest putting resistors on the sync, but I don't think that would do any good in most cases).

Quote
can i use vga pin 9 instead of bridging scart 16 - 20? does a radeon 9250 pin 9 give out 5v?

Yes, but you also need the 100ohm resistor

Quote
UPDATE: on closer inspection i've realised this cable is designed differently. vga grounding pins 6,7,8,10 all share a common link with each other and the shielding/casing. there is a small sheet of metal connecting the pins, but there are no wires. the shielded RGB wires have an additional wire wrapped around them within the shielding which i may be able to solder to the corresponding scart RGB grounding pins. would it be ok having all ground pins on both vga and scart side being linked. there is no wire coming from vga pin 5 at all

Grounds are usually common at both the TV-SCART input and video card output ends anyway. Check it out with your multimeter on diode-test, if you are curious.

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wilch

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #244 on: July 30, 2010, 09:02:55 pm »
thanks for the reply Zebidee. im familiar with testing continuity but not the ohms setting. what would i be looking for when testing the cable?

i built the cable best i could with what was there.

VGA     SCART   NAME
 1  ----  15     Red Signal
 2  ----  11     Green Signal
 3  ----   7     Blue Signal
13+14 ---20   Sync Signal (neg. H-Sync + neg. V-Sync = neg.

the vga pins 6,7,8 and 10 were all linked  to the shielding/casing so i bridged scart pins 17, 13, 9 and 5 to the scart casing which is linked to the vga casing. so all ground pins vga & scart are common

well i tried it out and got a black screen. if i set vertical sync to + then i get a rolling image...   i think maybe i should double check all links for continuity and reinstall drivers... any other suggestions?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 09:21:43 pm by wilch »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #245 on: July 31, 2010, 04:27:25 am »
thanks for the reply Zebidee. im familiar with testing continuity but not the ohms setting. what would i be looking for when testing the cable?

Set the multimeter to ohms (Look for the Omega symbol, like an upside down U with feet), select the range (you are looking for very low levels, tenths of an ohm or single digits, several ohms resistance could cause problems). 

Quote
the vga pins 6,7,8 and 10 were all linked  to the shielding/casing so i bridged scart pins 17, 13, 9 and 5 to the scart casing which is linked to the vga casing. so all ground pins vga & scart are common

Unusual way to do it. If it were me, I'd hook up the ends of all your VGA ground wires to SCART 17, and leave it at that. I'm a little concerned about where VGA 5 has gone.

Quote
well i tried it out and got a black screen. if i set vertical sync to + then i get a rolling image...   i think maybe i should double check all links for continuity and reinstall drivers... any other suggestions?

Agreed, check your cabling. What is connected to SCART 16 to activate RGB switching? You should not play with the sync polarity, leave it negative.
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wilch

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #246 on: July 31, 2010, 08:13:36 am »
ok the lowest ohm setting is 200, but it is picking up tiny amounts, not sure of the accuracy though as it only cost £2! the resistance fluctuated when testing VGA 1 to SCART 15, first it reported 2.0 then 1.4 then 1.6 then 2.0 again so i think i need a better multimeter and will test all future cables before soldering.

so if i connect the vga grounds to scart 17, will the other scart ground pins automatically share a common grounding with pin 17?

i bridged scart 20 to 16, this worked fine with the last cable so i'm sure my TV is ok with this


UPDATE: i secured the wires better, but didnt change the schematics. i reinstalled catalyst 6.5 and the cable works exactly as the last one did; meaning nice clear picture,  but green dominates the screen with half the resolutions, the other half are fine, yet i still have no 321x240 or any other 321x??? resolutions....  so im back where i started.

sailorsat recommended soldering 100ohm resistors to vga pins 13&14 on my previous cable, but i cannot open the vga side as its secured with glue. instead, i cut the wires on the scart side, then joined them back together using the resistors, but this just gave me a black screen, im guessing they need to be attached directly to the pins.

after all the trial & error i can live with too much green on my display, but i really want 321x240
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 10:05:30 am by wilch »

Oracle

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VGA to SCART cable compatible with Arcade VGA card and Soft 15KHz
« Reply #247 on: August 10, 2010, 05:32:20 pm »
You can buy a VGA to SCART cable for use to connect your PC installed with either an Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card or virtually any ATI or NVIDIA card using Soft 15KHZ to a regular CRT TV so that it can be used as an arcade monitor for a MAME project. This cable is a great buy and works perfect. You can find it on ebay. The seller is (m)(g)(w). You can find it by searching MAME SCART/VGA to SCART Cable compatible with ArcadeVGA or similar. This is one essential bit of kit if you want the real thing.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 06:48:58 am by Oracle »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #248 on: August 10, 2010, 11:10:53 pm »
@oracle - Nicely spotted. Are you the seller of that cable, and/or have you ever used it?

That all seems fine, so long as all you want is the most basic VGA-SCART cable AND have an arcadeVGA or ATI Radeon card. However:

- That cable will not work with video cards that do not output 5v on pin 9, which is most other cards.
- That cable will not allow auto-switching your TV to A/V mode. Aside from saving hassle, some TVs need this.
- That cable will still require you to output a 15khz signal from the video card (like any VGA-SCART cable).
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Oracle

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #249 on: August 11, 2010, 11:21:17 am »
@oracle - Nicely spotted. Are you the seller of that cable, and/or have you ever used it?

That all seems fine, so long as all you want is the most basic VGA-SCART cable AND have an arcadeVGA or ATI Radeon card. However:

- That cable will not work with video cards that do not output 5v on pin 9, which is most other cards.
- That cable will not allow auto-switching your TV to A/V mode. Aside from saving hassle, some TVs need this.
- That cable will still require you to output a 15khz signal from the video card (like any VGA-SCART cable).


I have used this cable yes. I have used it with an ArcadeVGA card and also an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro without any issues. I believe it will work on any 9xxx series ATI Radeon card.

This cable has a bridge between 20 => 16 and pin 9 on the VGA is not wired. Never had any issues with it and it works great.

This works perfectly with an ArcadeVGA card or virtually any ATI or NVIDIA card using Soft 15KHz. For info on Soft 15KHz click the link >>> http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170

The seller is happy to wire it as requested and can add the Molex 12v => SCART pin 8 and the Molex 5v + 100 ohm resistor => 2v => SCART pin 16 for auto switching and mode selection if required as not all TV's need this.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 07:07:02 am by Oracle »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #250 on: August 11, 2010, 01:29:50 pm »
That's all good, there's a lot of work involved in running the power in. What does the seller charge for all that?
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Oracle

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #251 on: August 11, 2010, 04:11:11 pm »
That's all good, there's a lot of work involved in running the power in. What does the seller charge for all that?


Not sure really. Probably a little bit more than the standard cable. You will need to make contact for a price.

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #252 on: August 12, 2010, 03:17:49 am »
I imagine that the extra cost would not be insignificant. I can make a basic cable in 25 minutes, but more complex cables take a lot longer.

Although I use some I have made myself, I would not *buy* a cable that simply shorts SCART 20 -> SCART 16. That works on *some* TVs only, and you have no way of knowing until you try it out. When I make cables for other people, I always include the molex for 12v & 5v input as standard. Saves on disappointments.
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XNIF

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #253 on: August 17, 2010, 06:34:09 am »
I hear some people say that a 75 ohm resistor would give better colours? Can anyone confirm this?  Can i break my tv or graphicscard when using a 75 insead of a 100 ohm resistor?  I'm using a 75 ohm cable...

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #254 on: August 17, 2010, 01:21:01 pm »
I've never heard anyone say that. The 100 ohm resistor that we mostly talk about in this thread is to pull 5v -> ~2v for pin 16. Your TV will either be switched to RGB mode or not.

Generally, there should be no resistance on the cable itself, but monitors are commonly '75ohm terminated' - it might even say that on the cable, if that is where you got yours from.
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wilch

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #255 on: August 18, 2010, 06:47:34 pm »
@Oracle, Thanks for the link, haven't heard of anyone selling these cables in England, might try it out and see if it fares better than my own effort.

@Zebidee, How much do you charge for one of your cables sent to the UK?

XNIF

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #256 on: August 19, 2010, 03:56:56 am »
Thanks for your response, maybe i misunderstood.

There is one question that remains: when booting my pc to windows XP the first minute or so is not in 15khz. Does this damage the TV?


Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #257 on: August 19, 2010, 05:13:31 am »
I have never seen any evidence to suggest that it causes any problems, no. I have two cabs that work like that with Soft15khz running them - they are about 2 & 3 years old. Never had a problem.
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #258 on: August 19, 2010, 05:15:02 am »
@Zebidee, How much do you charge for one of your cables sent to the UK?

Responded by personal message ...
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XNIF

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #259 on: August 22, 2010, 04:23:43 am »
i am going to try to build the cable myself and safe some money (i hope). As i have calculated it should not cost more than 10 euro's ?
So in short all i need is:

1) VGA male sub D connector ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=10884 )
2) A vga cable that includes RGB ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=12206 )
3) A scart connector ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=967 )
4)  A resistor of 100ohm ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=4909 )

I am not really sure about the resistor , i choose a 100 ohm with 5 watt?

If someone can confirm that these are the things i need, i will order. I am kind of a n00b on this so help is very much appreciated!

thanks!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 04:25:33 am by XNIF »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #260 on: August 22, 2010, 06:22:52 am »
100 ohm 1/2 watt will do.
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bkenobi

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #261 on: August 24, 2010, 04:05:23 pm »
Anyone have a US source for a SCART male connector?  I'm thinking of just buying a SCART-SCART cable from dealextreme and hacking it up.  Maybe I can open the connector, if not, it may be a bit more ugly looking.

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #262 on: August 27, 2010, 02:39:29 pm »
better buy a scart plug made for soldering purpose. industrial scart cables often have missing or crap connectors .

i ordered 20 of them some weeks ago. if u dont find any i can send one for shipping tax.

http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C168;GROUPID=3242;ARTICLE=17474;START=0;SORT=artnr;OFFSET=16;SID=25BPueH6wQARkAAD0TVeo84c93c7252918b42bb1520cfcb58c4e6

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #263 on: August 29, 2010, 02:22:45 am »
You can probably get them from a hobby electronics store (Jaycar stocks them in Aust). - worth asking your local store about if you want only one or two, anyway.

if you can get a header with 2mm spades at the back of the pins, then you can use 2mm female quick-connects instead of soldering! Unfortunately, the ads usually wont show this detail and the only way to really be sure is to open them up and have a look.
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bkenobi

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #264 on: August 29, 2010, 11:42:02 pm »
Austin would be a bit of a trip from Seattle for a couple connectors.   :cheers:

If you have a part number for the ones with the QD's anywhere, I'll take a look.

I built a VGA -> DB9 cable the other day (the other option for hooking things up), but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet.  I think the SCART cable is safer since I positively know the inputs for that (SCART is well documented), but if this works I'll probably be set.  I've just been too chicken to put a signal into it after reading the warnings about frying things with 31kHz on a 15kHz display.

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #265 on: August 30, 2010, 12:53:01 am »
Austin would be a bit of a trip from Seattle for a couple connectors.   :cheers:

Heh, I meant Australia  ;)
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #266 on: August 30, 2010, 01:06:29 am »
BAH!!!  Australia is even further.   :laugh2:

BurgerKingDiamond

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #267 on: November 02, 2010, 01:30:26 pm »
I have slightly different situation, but from reading this I think it should work. I want to connect my PS3 through SCART to an arcade monitor. An arcade monitor has R,G,B,GND, and SYNC right? So I can just connect the R,G,B,Sync wires from the monitor to the appropriate pins on the SCART? My only question is what to do to the GNDS for R,G,B. I'm sure this is obvious, but I just connect them all to the monitor GND?
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mvsfan

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #268 on: November 12, 2010, 07:59:11 pm »
another advantage is that your supply voltage is much higher, Thus, your Kw usage is .5. of course they probably just charge you double for it.

I tried to get 120/277/480 3 phase service here and was told i couldnt, even though the 3 phase line is right at the front of my property.

they told me that i just wouldnt use enough of it, and that was the whole point.

if i could have got it and installed smaller commercial units for AC, heat, water heater, etc, my electric bill would drop almost by half.

Imagine running every single low voltage appliance that you have like game consoles, etc on a master 480 low voltage power supply....

of course if i could have done it they probably would have just started billing me double per kw.

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #269 on: November 13, 2010, 11:30:55 am »
I have slightly different situation, but from reading this I think it should work. I want to connect my PS3 through SCART to an arcade monitor. An arcade monitor has R,G,B,GND, and SYNC right? So I can just connect the R,G,B,Sync wires from the monitor to the appropriate pins on the SCART? My only question is what to do to the GNDS for R,G,B. I'm sure this is obvious, but I just connect them all to the monitor GND?

Yeah, That is pretty much what you would have to do. Sorry about the late reply.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #270 on: November 13, 2010, 10:21:02 pm »
I have slightly different situation, but from reading this I think it should work. I want to connect my PS3 through SCART to an arcade monitor. An arcade monitor has R,G,B,GND, and SYNC right? So I can just connect the R,G,B,Sync wires from the monitor to the appropriate pins on the SCART? My only question is what to do to the GNDS for R,G,B. I'm sure this is obvious, but I just connect them all to the monitor GND?

Yeah, That is pretty much what you would have to do. Sorry about the late reply.

Sort of like daisy-chainging your controls grounds.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #271 on: November 15, 2010, 06:41:44 am »
cool. My situation has changed so I won't be trying this afterall. I think it would basically work, but I think you need to amplify the signals some. Which is over my head.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #272 on: November 21, 2010, 01:50:26 pm »
Hi there once more,

The very first thing I made when I started on my first build was the VGA/SCART-cable. Since I'm no soldering genius and the VGA bit of the cable has some very small pins it was a MAJOR PITA. After a couple extra runs to the electronics store to get some replacement VGA connectors for the ones I screwed up, and with a ton of greatgreat help from you guys, I finally pulled it off. Somehow, the damn thing broke somewhere in the progress of moving the cab (my workshop is not at my house), so I had to start all over again. This time, now that the build is nearing completion, my soldering skills are much better, and I can honestly say I'm proud of the soldering job I did on my new cable. But... It's not working...

AFAIK, I used the exact same wiring as on the last one (I only left the Molex plug out, I considered it, but it's not really worth my trouble. I'll just put the tv in the right video channel manually.). Here's what I did:

VGA ---------------------------------> SCART

1                                                        15
2                                                        11
3                                                        7
13 & 14                                               20
5, 6, 7, 8, 10                                        17
Shield                                                  Shield
4, 9, 11, 12, 15                                     Not connected

What am I missing? :s

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #273 on: November 23, 2010, 05:19:03 pm »
guess u missed scart pin 16 to switch the tv to > rgb< . 5 volt + 100 ohm resistor taken from a molex plug or vga pin 9 will do the trick .most tvs might work with 5 volt without any probs . if ur tv doesnt switch to av when powered up u'd better wire the 12 volt to pin 8 .  

ps. soldering nerds are doin ok with classic 15-15 wired vga cables.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 05:26:07 pm by apfelanni »

orchidius

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #274 on: November 24, 2010, 06:39:43 am »
I know all other cables have this molex plug thing to get the 5v from the pc to the scart so the tv automatically switches to the right channel. I didn't install that cable this time because I didn't know it actually affected the signal transmitting from the pc to the tv. I thought it was only there for our convenience so that we didn't have to switch the tv to the av channel manually...

 I guess i'll try to get the molex working anyway then... I'll get back to you!

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #275 on: November 29, 2010, 04:32:52 am »
Shorting SCART 16 -> SCART 20 (sync) also works with many (but not all) TVs.
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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #276 on: December 03, 2010, 10:22:40 pm »
Hi all!

I can't get my Sony TV to auto switch to AV mode by sending 12 volts via molex to scart pin 8.

Diagram:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000009.htm

I've tested it on two other TVs and they perform the auto switching OK.

Any ideas?  ???

Any input appreciated. 

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #277 on: December 04, 2010, 03:53:35 pm »
hi there again,

I got it to work! Thanks again for your great help. I do however notice 2 minor issues:

1) I seem to lose a tiny bit of screen on the bottom. Half of my taskbar is not visible. Is that normal/adjustable?
2) The whole screen is vibrating a little bit up and down. Is that just because of a sloppy soldering job? Or is this adjustable?

Thanks!!

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #278 on: December 06, 2010, 12:20:24 am »
I can't get my Sony TV to auto switch to AV mode by sending 12 volts via molex to scart pin 8.

I've tested it on two other TVs and they perform the auto switching OK.

Some TVs don't auto-respond to voltage at pin 8. Rarely, some TVs don't respond, but also won't change mode unless the voltage is present. 

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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #279 on: December 06, 2010, 12:25:32 am »
1) I seem to lose a tiny bit of screen on the bottom. Half of my taskbar is not visible. Is that normal/adjustable?
2) The whole screen is vibrating a little bit up and down. Is that just because of a sloppy soldering job? Or is this adjustable?

1. That is just overscan - it is normal for TVs, and means that you lose ~5% around the edges. You might be able to adjust the settings a bit if you can access service mode. You can also choose video mode intelligently (e.g. use 288 line modes for vertical games with 256 lines, so that you can still see all the action).

2. Could be your TV. Adjust vertical hold (if present). Could also be poor sync signal in your cable. test the resistance (ohm meter or multimeter) along the sync lines of your cable. if it is any more than about an ohm, that could be what is causing the problem..
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