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ROM legality and dumping (mame - beatmania)
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johnperkins21:

--- Quote from: SavannahLion on February 26, 2008, 02:26:07 am ---
--- Quote from: johnperkins21 on February 26, 2008, 01:04:30 am ---It's a very tricky situation, and one the courts generally rule in favor of the corporations for. However, the DMCA does not prohibit creating a backup, and the Betamax Doctrine makes it possible to create legal backups. Each infraction that doesn't fall directly within the two (i.e. EULA strictly prohibits backups) would need to be handled on a case by case basis in civil court.

--- End quote ---

Betamax doctorine protects the existence of said machines/devices that could potentially be used to make backups, not the specific act of the backup.

--- End quote ---

For the most part you're absolutely correct, but there's still this:


--- Quote from: Sony Corp vs Universal City Studios ---(3) In summary, those findings reveal that the average member of the public uses a VTR principally to record a program he cannot view as it is being televised and then to watch it once at a later time. This practice, known as "time-shifting," enlarges the television viewing audience. For that reason, a significant amount of television programming may be used in this manner without objection from the owners of the copyrights on the programs. For the same reason, even the two respondents in this case, who do assert objections to time-shifting in this litigation, were unable to prove that the practice has impaired the commercial value of their copyrights or has created any likelihood of future harm.
--- End quote ---

You generally have to prove some sort of damages in copyright. What the court did here is to say that scenarios do exist where consumers creating a backup copy of a copyrighted work is, and should be, allowed. It doesn't specifically state "every consumer has a right to make a backup," but it does infer that it is ok in some instances and it's up to the copyright holder to prove damages otherwise.

You're more correct than I am as it's been a while since I've read much of it, but it certainly does more than just allow the manufacture of devices. The court's opinion is important in that it actually created limits on copyright protection. And this is a point directly related to our topic:


--- Quote from: Sony Corp vs Universal City Studios ---(12) Even when an entire copyrighted work was recorded, [p*426] the District Court regarded the copying as fair use "because there is no accompanying reduction in the market for ‘plaintiff’s original work.‘" Ibid.
--- End quote ---

Making a backup of software you've already paid for does not reduce the market for the original work. Again, it's tricky and attorneys make tons of money and spend an awful lot of time trying to figure out exactly what the courts intended. This is why most of these things come down to a case-by-case basis, and you're highly unlikely to be taken to court for creating your own personal backup. What the copyright holders are trying to prevent (and willing to pay attorneys for) is the unlawful distribution of their content. They usuall don't care if you paid for it and want to make a backup for yourself as long as you are sticking to the other terms of the EULA (i.e. don't share, only use one copy at a time, etc.)

Here's a link to the full text that I used:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/464_US_417.htm
mameupdate:
There are quite a few websites on the internet that sell roms, Some have been open for over 6+ years and noone seems to pull them or sue them.. I think roms are generally overlooked.
Green Giant:

--- Quote from: mameupdate on February 26, 2008, 12:37:24 pm ---There are quite a few websites on the internet that sell roms, Some have been open for over 6+ years and noone seems to pull them or sue them.. I think roms are generally overlooked.

--- End quote ---

All of those roms are old.  If they sold PS2 or xbox roms, they would get shutdown in a day.  If you have a copy of Zelda and it breaks, you can try to contact the orignial manufacturer about a replacement.  They will laugh at you.  The DMCA protects you if the original is not readily available, and used copies don't count.
mameupdate:

--- Quote from: Green Giant on February 26, 2008, 04:07:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: mameupdate on February 26, 2008, 12:37:24 pm ---There are quite a few websites on the internet that sell roms, Some have been open for over 6+ years and noone seems to pull them or sue them.. I think roms are generally overlooked.

--- End quote ---

All of those roms are old.  If they sold PS2 or xbox roms, they would get shutdown in a day.  If you have a copy of Zelda and it breaks, you can try to contact the orignial manufacturer about a replacement.  They will laugh at you.  The DMCA protects you if the original is not readily available, and used copies don't count.

--- End quote ---

Yea there old but so is beatmania, meaning why do people always question the legality here for mame roms when in theory no higher power seems to care anyway unless like you said its next gen games that are at the store.
ark_ader:

--- Quote from: mameupdate on February 26, 2008, 06:29:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Green Giant on February 26, 2008, 04:07:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: mameupdate on February 26, 2008, 12:37:24 pm ---There are quite a few websites on the internet that sell roms, Some have been open for over 6+ years and noone seems to pull them or sue them.. I think roms are generally overlooked.

--- End quote ---

All of those roms are old.  If they sold PS2 or xbox roms, they would get shutdown in a day.  If you have a copy of Zelda and it breaks, you can try to contact the orignial manufacturer about a replacement.  They will laugh at you.  The DMCA protects you if the original is not readily available, and used copies don't count.

--- End quote ---

Yea there old but so is beatmania, meaning why do people always question the legality here for mame roms when in theory no higher power seems to care anyway unless like you said its next gen games that are at the store.

--- End quote ---

Hold on a second,

Look at the original post and then compare the answers to the previous posts in this thread, and you can see the direction it is going.  We are not talking about using the copyright like in MAME roms and the arcade cabs of the world or 1000 in 1 mainboards.  We are discussing the fact that an original betmania is missing code, and the software available on the net can restore an original machine with that code.

The argument of DMCA, abandonware or if companies don't go after you for stealing their work, is moot in this case.  I think we are muddying up the waters, which should really be easy to answer. 

Besides we are all past the point of no going back if you have the full romset of any Mame distribution, especially if the Feds walk in. 

I'm waiting on an episode of Law and Order featuring this argument. 

It'll put a shiver down your back! :laugh2:
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