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I hate my job and want to switch rant

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zaphod:
I'm not suggesting they were not doing their own work.  The projects that were required each semester always had to be done on a small-scale, so you almost had to use Access for those.  This was '99-'02, so not many other easy alternatives.  So that is what they learned and what they thought would be used in the real world.  The textbooks spoke in generalities, not specifics so minimal mention of DB2, SQLServer, or Oracle. 

The group projects were one way for the college to get through the marginal students.  I always hated those and did not hesitate to be a butt-head to those in my group who didn't carry their weight.

My undergrad was a different story and I made a lot of beer money 'helping' students through the one or two required PC courses in our liberal arts programs. 

shardian:

--- Quote from: zaphod on February 15, 2008, 10:33:07 am ---Scary thing is, these kids are getting jobs with state agencies where the managers believe that same thing.  And people wonder why government has problems getting things done.

--- End quote ---

What really sucks about State, Federal, and even my company is that they wait to hire these clueless graduates until AFTER the highly experienced vets retire. All in the effort of saving a few pennies. They think these college kids - who have no clue about how "real life" works, are going to walk in and perform at the same level. Newsflash: It just ain't gonna happen unless they are trained properly. In most cases any more a college degree is just a piece of paper that says the person who attained it is at least somewhat intelligent, has a moderate working knowledge of the subject matter, and can be trained quicker than a person w/o a degree.

At the Corps of Engineers, they are basically shoving out all of their veteran Engineers and technical people. Their main charge is the lock and dams system. There is only a handful of people left that even have a clue how to build one, and almost all locks are due replacement.

At my job, I was hired and thrown into the fire. I've never been properly trained - not even close. They FINALLY hired another young guy, and he is well on his way to being done just like me. The last guy who was hired a few years before me was put in the shop for a time, put in the field for a time, and was properly trained over his first year. IConsidering all of the vets are a year or two from retirement, they have really missed out on an opportunity to pass on all of that knowledge.

ChadTower:

--- Quote from: pinballjim on February 15, 2008, 02:18:56 pm ---The point of college isn't to pump you up full of specific job skills, it's to teach you how to 'think' like a member of that chosen profession.
--- End quote ---


That's managementspeak garbage.  Pure and simple.  Engineers, and yes MIS grads are engineers, are expected to have a baseline level of skills when they graduate.



--- Quote ---Do you really expect fresh MIS grads to know everything about whatever niche database system you're utilizing?
--- End quote ---

Yes.  Absolutely.  I expect an MIS grad to know the difference between a single user application and an enterprise level DBMS.  I fully expect them to have at least a simple grasp on the difference in architectural requirements between the two.  That is, after all, specifically covered in an MIS program.



--- Quote ---We utilized a lot of MS Office products when I got my degree... but guess what... the terminology, structures, usage, etc translate at least 90% to other systems.
--- End quote ---

That's just out of context of what the guy said.  Knowledge of Access isn't going to get you 5% of what you're going to need in an Oracle environment.  I wouldn't expect a fresh grad to be a Oracle certified DBA.  I would, however, expect them to know enough to know how much they don't know.  If they don't know at least that much they don't know a damn thing.

ChadTower:

There is a reason engineering interns actually get paid.  They get paid because they actually have useful skills.  You can give them a narrow task and they will complete it to reasonable standards.  As they get closer to their degree they can complete larger and more professional grade tasks. 

There is a reason business interns do not get paid.

Either your computer science advisor was a business intern or your school had a terrible program.  I've studied in two top cmpsci programs - both were teaching practical skills to the people who were actually there to learn.  I did my first internship after my freshman year and was writing useful automation for my employer.

shardian:

--- Quote from: pinballjim on February 15, 2008, 02:36:35 pm ---Sounds like you should be hiring out of vocational academies or community colleges if you ask me.

Computer science adviser at my college used to tell his students, "if you want to be a programmer, drop out now and go to community college" and that advice was probably more rock solid than the school wished he would share with them.



--- End quote ---

That is very true. You learn next to zero practical knowledge in college. Trade school teaches you the practical stuff, but you then lack the foundation and theory to build upon  - you are stuck on that bottom rung.

I had more than one interview in which I was drilled about my hobbies and interests way more than my grades in school. At one interview I went to explain a course I had an issue with and the guy cut me off and said "You have a piece of paper that says you graduated, thats that matters."

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