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UFC 81
ChadTower:
--- Quote from: odysseyroc on January 30, 2008, 10:58:29 am ---a good wrestler who's been seriously training in avoiding submission is really hard to submit. That's why Mark Kerr was Abu Dhabi champ back in the days. He'd just take guys down and kill their movement. If you can't move your hips, you ain't submitting anybody.
--- End quote ---
It's also damn near impossible to submit someone with the strength of a pissed off bear. You have to get it quickly and perfectly or they just rip the limb out.
CCM:
--- Quote from: ChadTower on January 30, 2008, 11:05:40 am ---
--- Quote from: odysseyroc on January 30, 2008, 10:58:29 am ---a good wrestler who's been seriously training in avoiding submission is really hard to submit. That's why Mark Kerr was Abu Dhabi champ back in the days. He'd just take guys down and kill their movement. If you can't move your hips, you ain't submitting anybody.
--- End quote ---
It's also damn near impossible to submit someone with the strength of a pissed off bear. You have to get it quickly and perfectly or they just rip the limb out.
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't say it's damn near impossible, there's plenty of strong mma fighters that have been submitted. Kevin Randlmen, Mark Kerr, Bob Sapp, Jeff Monson have all been submitted. The strength of 'a pissed off bear' isn't gonna be enough to avoid submissions.
Alot of people believe that pound for pound Matt Hughes is one of the strongest fighters in mma and he's been submitted.
You can be the strongest guy in the world and if you can't defend submissions, you're in trouble.
Now, I'm not saying that Lesnar doesn't have good submission defense (I don't think any of us know that based on his one fight), I'm just saying that brute strength alone won't save you.
ChadTower:
He doesn't have brute strength alone. Combine the strength with the wrestling ability and that is a very different story.
Did you really put Bob Sapp into this? ;D
shardian:
--- Quote from: CCM on January 30, 2008, 11:35:41 am ---You can be the strongest guy in the world and if you can't defend submissions, you're in trouble.
--- End quote ---
Example: UFC IV - Dan Severn Vs. Joyce Gracie. Severn was an excellent wrestler, was big, and strong as a bear. He lost because he wasn't a good striker, and he didn't know how to defend submissions. However, he learned that stuff and went on to be very sucessful in MMA.
When I think of Brock Lesnar in MMA, I compare him most closely to Dan Severn.
ChadTower:
You can't compare the guys from that era with the guys from today. The sport has evolved too far. That was proven pretty conclusively when Royce Gracie got his ass handed to him by Matt Hughes - that fight wasn't even close.
There is just no way Lesnar is going to come in without having learned decent submission defense. He's been working over a year for this and has world class trainers teaching him. If that were to happen they should all leave MMA and never return.
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