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Carriage Bolts On your CP: Tacky, or Tasteful?
MaximRecoil:
--- Quote from: RandyT on January 31, 2008, 05:18:11 am ---I'm going to guess your panel has carriage bolts on it :)
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I own three original arcade machines and nothing else (four if you count the gutted machine in the shed). Two of them have visible carriage bolts and one of them does not. I didn't make the decision, the manufacturers of them did.
--- Quote ---Regardless of what you wish to believe, in the English language "going the extra mile" means putting in additional effort to achieve a desired end.
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Yes, and it also carries with it certain implications, like all words and phrases do, due to common language application. If someone puts forth extra effort but gets worse results ("worse" in regard to whatever goal is deemed most important), then people wouldn't generally say they "went the extra mile". For example, if the important goal is to remove rust, and someone stays up toiling away all night with 2000 grit sandpaper and only removes half the rust; would he be said to have "gone the extra mile" compared to someone who removed all the rust in a short time with 40 grit sandpaper?
--- Quote ---As I mentioned earlier, it costs more and takes more time to hide them than to just drill some holes on the panel and push some bolts through. They hid them and they did it intentionally at an extra cost.
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I didn't disagree with that. I disagree with the "extra mile" characterization of this, due to the implication of this phrase that the results were an improvement over the easier alternative.
--- Quote ---And if you believe that the complaints of operators forced the manufacturers to use the bolts, then how do you explain a very recent game like Gauntlet Legends which has no exposed bolts? Are they thumbing their noses at the operators, or did they just wish to not sully the extremely artistic presentation of the cabinet with exposed hardware?
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You would have to ask them. I only suggested a possibility. I didn't claim to know the reasoning behind each and every case. You are the one that is implying that you know.
--- Quote ---Personally, I dislike the concept of a "generic" cab in an Arcade. You actually did bring up a good example. When the manufacturers (and operators) no longer cared about presentation, the arcades lost something special. Generic cabinets (usually coupled with "do-it-yourself-marquees") lowered the bar, and probably helped in some perhaps not-so-small way to hasten the decline of the industry.
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That is something different altogether. Do you find the design of the Dynamo to be ugly based solely on the design itself (and not what the generic cabinet trend represented to the industry)? Keep in mind that a Williams Joust, Atari Centipede, Data East Karate Champ, Taito Double Dragon, etc., all follow roughly the same lines, and that general style is the first thing that pops into most people's minds when they hear "arcade machine".
--- Quote ---But I'm seeing that you don't quite get the idea of personal preference. It's possible for an individual to like or dislike anything for no other reason than that they do. You seem to be putting way to much effort into justifying something so basic. Certain manufacturers found exposed hardware offensive, while others took the more utilitarian approach. It prerogative, pure and simple. They obviously preferred one way over the other, so why is it so hard for you to accept that we can behave similarly?
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I'm simply pointing out the irony, given the context.
--- Quote ---T-molding is seen as an acceptable means of finishing man-made wood products that do not inherently have a good edge-grain. It's used on many a commercial product. The thin veneers used as an alternative are no better or worse. Just a different option selected for a specific purpose.
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It is chosen primarily for its durability and ease of replacement (sound familiar?). This is a very important consideration for products intended for a commercial environment. In any event, neither the T-molding nor the cheap man-made wood-stuff material that it is attached to rank very high for "style" or "good taste" (which is the oppostite of "tacky").
It is kind of like worrying that your leopard-print couch looks "tacky" next to your harvest gold shag carpeting.
MaximRecoil:
--- Quote from: patrickl on January 31, 2008, 05:28:54 am ---The finishing and wood on the cabs coming straight out the factory was not furniture grade. We make cabs better now. Better paint, better wood, better joysticks, better artwork, better designed cabs and less showing bolt heads. We take pride in our built and built what we feel looks nice. Maintaining the style of the originals, but not the poor finishing.
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Better paint: Do you think you can best the factory finish on a Nintendo cabinet for example? This is a heat cured epoxy finish that some people mistake for a laminate.
Better wood: How so? Most people use MDF. Plenty of original cabinets also use MDF. Another option is plywood. Again, lots of original cabinets also used plywood. In the case of original cabinets made from particle board, then either MDF or plywood is indeed a better choice IMO.
Better joysticks: Which joysticks are you referring to exactly?
Better artwork: This is a highly subjective claim if you are referring to the art content itself. However, most BYOAC cabinets do not use screen printed artwork while nearly all original cabinets did.
Better designed cabs: "Better designed" how? Perhaps better designed to play hundreds of games, but that is comparing apples to oranges so to speak.
--- Quote ---I really don't see what the fact that some original cabs had bolts showing has anything to do with if we want to show them now. Some cabs did show them and some not. So you can make both arguments from that. It's completely useless.
Unless you want to make an exact replica of a specific cab there is no need to show bolt heads in order to be "authentic".
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You are misunderstanding what I am saying. I never claimed that someone should have exposed bolt heads in order to be authentic (especially since not all cabinets had them). I am saying that the claim that exposed bolt heads are "tacky" is a ridiculous piece of irony, given the context.
I don't care how people decide to build their own cabinets—with or without visible carriage bolts, I couldn't care less. It is the claim that one or the other is "tacky" that is ridiculous.
RandyT:
--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on January 31, 2008, 05:52:49 am ---I own three original arcade machines and nothing else (four if you count the gutted machine in the shed). Two of them have visible carriage bolts and one of them does not. I didn't make the decision, the manufacturers of them did.
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What do you suppose the decision was based upon?
--- Quote ---I didn't disagree with that. I disagree with the "extra mile" characterization of this, due to the implication of this phrase that the results were an improvement over the easier alternative.
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They must have thought it was, or they wouldn't have done it. I'm sure they believed they were "going the extra mile".
--- Quote ---I didn't claim to know the reasoning behind each and every case. You are the one that is implying that you know.
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All I know is common sense and having designed commercial kiosks for a few years. One basic rule is to hide hardware if possible, and it usually is.
--- Quote ---That is something different altogether. Do you find the design of the Dynamo to be ugly based solely on the design itself (and not what the generic cabinet trend represented to the industry)? Keep in mind that a Williams Joust, Atari Centipede, Data East Karate Champ, Taito Double Dragon, etc., all follow roughly the same lines, and that general style is the first thing that pops into most people's minds when they hear "arcade machine".
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No, it is not. I can honestly say that I do not prefer generic cabinets in an arcade setting, and that really all the justification that is necessary. It is my preference. See how that works? But I will humor you and say that each of the games that you mentioned own that similar design. They had specific artwork that connected the game to the cabinet design and so-on. The generic cabs are just generic cabs with no personality, merely a similar shape.
--- Quote ---It is chosen primarily for its durability and ease of replacement (sound familiar?). This is a very important consideration for products intended for a commercial environment. In any event, neither the T-molding nor the cheap man-made wood-stuff material that it is attached to rank very high for "style" or "good taste" (which is the oppostite of "tacky").
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Again, it is a subjective terminology. Retro modern is pretty tacky by todays standards, but was considered "classy" in the 70's. And the T-molding is as much about defining the look and feel of the game as it is to protect / hide the edges. Unless you would now like to take the position that a Pac-Man cabinet would look the same with green T-molding on it.
RandyT
MaximRecoil:
--- Quote from: RandyT on January 31, 2008, 06:17:13 am ---What do you suppose the decision was based upon?
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Who knows? Different companies tend to have different priorities and ideas.
--- Quote ---They must have thought it was, or they wouldn't have done it. I'm sure they believed they were "going the extra mile".
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Yes, they probably did believe they were "going the extra mile". I wonder if operators believed they "went the extra mile" as a T-nut started spinning in place when they tried to remove the bolt, due to gunked and rusted threads from several months or years' worth of soda spills.
--- Quote ---All I know is common sense and having designed commercial kiosks for a few years. One basic rule is to hide hardware if possible, and it usually is.
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All hardware isn't necessarily given equal considerations. Hardware that mounts a joystick, which needs routine maintenance, and is subject to the likes of soda spills, may very well have different considerations (beyond subjective aesthetics) than hardware that will rarely, if ever, have to be removed.
--- Quote ---No, it is not.
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Yes it is a different thing altogether. We were talking about ugly cabinet designs, and you went off on something different.
--- Quote ---I can honestly say that I do not prefer generic cabinets in an arcade setting, and that really all the justification that is necessary. It is my preference. See how that works? But I will humor you and say that each of the games that you mentioned own that similar design. They had specific artwork that connected the game to the cabinet design and so-on. The generic cabs are just generic cabs with no personality, merely a similar shape.
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So apparently you don't find that general shape to be ugly.
--- Quote ---Again, it is a subjective terminology. Retro modern is pretty tacky by todays standards, but was considered "classy" in the 70's. And the T-molding is as much about defining the look and feel of the game as it is to protect / hide the edges. Unless you would now like to take the position that a Pac-Man cabinet would look the same with green T-molding on it.
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Look and feel was a secondary consideration. Once you have already decided to use T-molding (and pretty much all of them did make that very decision) because it is a cheap and durable method of finishing and protecting the edges of the cheap wood, then it is a small matter to specify a color of the T-molding when you order it.
patrickl:
I guess you stated "tasteful" in the poll. That's about all we need to know really. There is no right or wrong when the question is a matter of taste.