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Carriage Bolts On your CP: Tacky, or Tasteful?
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patrickl:

--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on January 31, 2008, 04:24:04 am ---
--- Quote from: patrickl on January 31, 2008, 04:02:31 am ---I don't see what the big debate is. Some people consider them tacky. Even if they are authentic. So?

--- End quote ---

Because considering a common feature of arcade machines to be "tacky" while not considering the rest of it to be "tacky" is laughably ironic.

--- End quote ---
So?

Bad paint jobs, "broken" joysticks, sticky buttons, cigarette burns, peeled off CP art and what not where "authentic" too.

There is tacky as in style or as in poor finish. Some people who built their cabs now (and then) think bolt heads are poor finishing. Indeed we often use better wood now too.

I really don't see what any fault that poorly built machines might have had in the eighties has anything to do with what we built now.
MaximRecoil:

--- Quote from: RandyT on January 31, 2008, 04:19:39 am ---If not for reasons of aesthetics, please tell me what the manufacturers had in mind when they paid more and further complicated the manufacturing process to have weld nuts or threaded inserts installed.  And operators would indeed repair those units with carriage bolts because aesthetics were way below expedience on the priority list.
--- End quote ---

I don't agree with your "going the extra mile" characterization if that extra mile was a mistake, or arguably a mistake. The "going the extra mile" phrase implies an improvement gained through extra effort and/or cost, and also implies that the alternative is a lazy shortcut with lower quality results. That is not necessarily the case. I would imagine that a good deal of operators complained and some manufacturers listened.  


--- Quote ---Wow.  I made a general statement about ugly cabinet design, and you went all specific on me.  I guess there's one that sticks in your craw as well, thus proving my point.

RandyT
--- End quote ---

No, it didn't prove your point. I gave you a specific scenario to show you how your invalid analogy could be made valid. Thinking that a single cabinet design is ugly is not analogous to thinking visible carriage bolts are "tacky", because a single cabinet design is only representative of itself, while visible carriage bolts are representive of a huge amount of cabinets spanning most of the manufacturers at one time or another. So if we change your analogy to a common style of cabinet, a style that could be considered almost archetypal, then it becomes more valid.
MaximRecoil:

--- Quote from: patrickl on January 31, 2008, 04:29:51 am ---So?

Bad paint jobs, "broken" joysticks, sticky buttons, cigarette burns, peeled off CP art and what not where "authentic" too.
--- End quote ---

That's not how they came from the manufacturer (unless they were defective). However, many, many cabinets came from the manufacturer with exposed carriage bolts, and in some cases, lots of them.


--- Quote ---There is tacky as in style or as in poor finish. Some people who built their cabs now (and then) think bolt heads are poor finishing. Indeed we often use better wood now too.

I really don't see what any fault that poorly built machines might have had in the eighties has anything to do with what we built now.

--- End quote ---

T-molding could be considered "poor finishing" too. It is certainly a lazy way of finishing an edge, which is why you would never see it in high-end furniture or cabinetry.
RandyT:

--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on January 31, 2008, 04:42:28 am ---I don't agree with your "going the extra mile" characterization if that extra mile was a mistake, or arguably a mistake. The "going the extra mile" phrase implies an improvement gained through extra effort and/or cost, and also implies that the alternative is a lazy shortcut with lower quality results. That is not necessarily the case. I would imagine that a good deal of operators complained and some manufacturers listened. 

--- End quote ---

I'm going to guess your panel has carriage bolts on it :)  Regardless of what you wish to believe, in the English language "going the extra mile" means putting in additional effort to achieve a desired end.  As I mentioned earlier, it costs more and takes more time to hide them than to just drill some holes on the panel and push some bolts through.  They hid them and they did it intentionally at an extra cost.

And if you believe that the complaints of operators forced the manufacturers to use the bolts, then how do you explain a very recent game like Gauntlet Legends which has no exposed bolts?  Are they thumbing their noses at the operators, or did they just wish to not sully the extremely artistic presentation of the cabinet with exposed hardware?


--- Quote ---No, it didn't prove your point. I gave you a specific scenario to show you how your invalid analogy could be made valid. Thinking that a single cabinet design is ugly is not analogous to thinking visible carriage bolts are "tacky", because a single cabinet design is only representative of itself, while visible carriage bolts are representive of a huge amount of cabinets spanning most of the manufacturers at one time or another. So if we change your analogy to a common style of cabinet, a style that could be considered almost archetypal, then it becomes more valid.

--- End quote ---

Personally, I dislike the concept of a "generic" cab in an Arcade.  You actually did bring up a good example.  When the manufacturers (and operators) no longer cared about presentation, the arcades lost something special.  Generic cabinets (usually coupled with "do-it-yourself-marquees") lowered the bar, and probably helped in some perhaps not-so-small way to hasten the decline of the industry.

But I'm seeing that you don't quite get the idea of personal preference.  It's possible for an individual to like or dislike anything for no other reason than that they do.  You seem to be putting way to much effort into justifying something so basic.  Certain manufacturers found exposed hardware offensive, while others took the more utilitarian approach.  It's prerogative, pure and simple.  They obviously preferred one way over the other, so why is it so hard for you to accept that we can behave similarly? 


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on January 31, 2008, 04:50:16 am ---T-molding could be considered "poor finishing" too. It is certainly a lazy way of finishing an edge, which is why you would never see it in high-end furniture or cabinetry.

--- End quote ---

T-molding is seen as an acceptable means of finishing man-made wood products that do not inherently have a good edge-grain.  It's used on many a commercial product.  The thin veneers used as an alternative are no better or worse.  Just a different option selected for a specific purpose.

RandyT
patrickl:

--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on January 31, 2008, 04:50:16 am ---
--- Quote from: patrickl on January 31, 2008, 04:29:51 am ---So?

Bad paint jobs, "broken" joysticks, sticky buttons, cigarette burns, peeled off CP art and what not where "authentic" too.
--- End quote ---

That's not how they came from the manufacturer (unless they were defective). However, many, many cabinets came from the manufacturer with exposed carriage bolts, and in some cases, lots of them.
--- End quote ---
The finishing and wood on the cabs coming straight out the factory was not furniture grade. We make cabs better now. Better paint, better wood, better joysticks, better artwork, better designed cabs and less showing bolt heads. We take pride in our built and built what we feel looks nice. Maintaining the style of the originals, but not the poor finishing.

I really don't see what the fact that some original cabs had bolts showing has anything to do with if we want to show them now. Some cabs did show them and some not. So you can make both arguments from that. It's completely useless.

Unless you want to make an exact replica of a specific cab there is no need to show bolt heads in order to be "authentic".
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