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Author Topic: payphone for gameroom...  (Read 76091 times)

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payphone for gameroom...
« on: January 14, 2008, 07:27:37 am »
Just came across this intructable that looks like it would fit into a gameroom quite well... http://www.instructables.com/id/Payphone-in-the-Home/?ALLSTEPS

shardian

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2008, 08:20:16 am »
They are regularly on ebay already modified for home use. I believe it was Bell South that sold a bunch of modified ones for charity a few years back.

Ken Layton

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2008, 10:52:27 am »
Yes you can get genuine Bell Telephone "retired from service" payphones on ebay. Many of the Bell Operating Companies are pulling out of or downsizing their payphone routes. A telephone reseller bought pallets full of them and has been selling them on ebay modified for home use (no coins needed). In general, these are genuine Western Electric/A.T.&T. cases (coin return bucket on the left) or GTE/Palco/Quadrum/hybrid cases (coin return bucket on the right).

Western Electric cases will generally come with a Western Electric 32a, 32B, or 32C series circuit board which was originally designed for telephone operator control of the coin collect/return relay coil.

GTE cases will generally come with a "smart" circuit board designed by the major private payphone manufacturers such as Elcotel, Intellicall, Protel, or Ernest Telecom. Early models (over ten years old) were operated by a small 'wall wart' style power transformer to power the circuit board and make the phone work. Later models (less than ten years old) are operated by the phone line in conjunction with a rechargeable battery similar to the battery in an emergency light or exit sign. If the battery is weak/dead the phone will not work. All "smart" board phones must be programmed in order to work. If you have purchased the respective board manufacturer's phone operating system program, you can program the phone yourself with your own computer, otherwise you must pay another company to program the phone like G-Tel (www.payphone.com). Be advised some older circuit boards from some manufacturers cannot be upgraded to dial area code numbers with anything other than a 1 or 0 as the middle digit.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 12:02:26 am by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2008, 05:41:03 am »
Yes you can get genuine Bell Telephone "retired from service" payphones on ebay. Many of the Bell Operating Companies are pulling out of or downsizing their payphone routes. A telephone reseller bought pallets full of them and has been selling them on ebay modified for home use (no coins needed). In general, these are genuine Western Electric/A.T.&T. cases (coin return bucket on the left) or GTE/Palco/Quadrum/hybrid cases (coin return bucket on the right).

Western Electric cases will generally come with a Western Electric 32a, 32B, or 32C series circuit board which was originally designed for telephone operator control of the coin collect/return relay coil.

GTE cases will generally come with a "smart" circuit board designed by the major private payphone manufacturers such as Elcotel, Intellicall, Protel, or Ernest Telecom. Early models (over ten years old) were operated by a small 'wall wart' styler power transformer to power the circuit board and make the phone work. Later models (less than ten years old) are operated by the phone line in conjunction with a rechargeable battery similar to the battery in an emergency light or exit sign. If the battery is weak/dead the phone will not work. All "smart" board phones must be programmed in order to work. If you have purchased the respective board manufacturer's phone operating system program, you can program the phone yourself with your own computer, otherwise you must pay another company to program the phone like G-Tel (www.payphone.com). Be advised some older circuit boards from some manufacturers cannot be upgraded to dial long distance numbers with anything other than a 1 or 0 as the middle digit.

Damn. How do you remember all that specific, detailed information about arcade machines, monitors, jukeboxes, changers, and now...payphones?

I just thought I'd mention that I've been researching payphones lately because I bought one for cheap recently (Intellicall 3003) and everything Ken has typed here aligns with what I've learned (would have saved me a lot of time if I'd just asked Ken to give me the rundown on payphones in general, lol).

Mine is an older model that is powered by a plug-in class II wall transformer (24 VAC 1.67 amps) and of course, it has a "smart" board, manufactured by Intellicall. If anyone gets one of these Intellicalls that have been selling for cheap lately, Intellicall seems to be a very helpful company. Not only will they patiently answer questions on their toll free number, but they will program your board for $25, or if your board is not working, they will repair and program it for $40. For $60 they will repair and program your phone, and give you the correct wall transformer and add an RJ-11 plug to the phone line (which is usually just two wires for hardwiring).

I don't know if my phone actually works or not yet. I'm still waiting for the wall transformer that I ordered from Mouser before I can test it. It is in decent shape cosmetically though (except for the handset, which looks like it was chewed on by a dog—though it is completely intact) and all the parts are there.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2008, 11:25:17 am »
Elcotel, Intellicall, Protel, and Ernest Telecom are the "big 4" manufacturers of private payphones and the circuit boards that operate them. These 4 companies have been around since privately owned payphones became legal in 1985.

The reason I know so much about payphones is that the video game/vending operator I worked for over the years was the first to jump on the private payphone bandwagon here in 1986. We had a route of 15 payphones locally. Some did very well indeed money-wise while others were so-so. Plus the fact my dad worked for the phone company and introduced me to all the guys in the phone company payphone division.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 12:29:57 pm »
More information for those with payphones from these manufacturers:

Ernest Telecom:

Joseph J. Ernest
www.ernestgroup.com
Phone: 1-800-456-8353 or (770) 242-9069
Located in Georgia
At one time Ernest Telecom payphones were sold and distributed by the Amway Company.
I understand they do not support payphones any more, but you'd have to contact them to see if they can help.


Intellicall:

www.intellicall.com
Phone: 1-800-800-9091 or (469) 522-1553
Located in Texas
--- Now out of business 2012 ---

Protel:

www.protelinc.com
Phone: 1-800-925-8882 or (863) 644-5558
Located in Florida
Manuals for Protel phones: http://www.protelinc.com/ProtelWeb/Manuals_usa.asp

Elcotel:

Elcotel was purchased a few years ago by QuorTech Solutions and is still very much in the payphone business.
www.quortech.com
Phone: 1-800-820-4680


For general information, parts, manuals, help, etc on many payphones please check out these links:

www.payphonehelp.com/quan.html

www.payphone.com

www.porticus.org/bell/telephones-payphones-modern.html

www.payphone.com/shop/instructions/Series5Manual.pdf (Elcotel Series 5 and Olympian 5501 installation/instruction manual, free download)

www.payphone.com/shop/instructions/PPayphone.pdf (commercial payphone converted to home use installation/instruction manual)

www.payphone.com/shop/instructions/Gtel1000Manual.pdf (GTel1000/Protel "200BB+" installation/instruction manual, free download)

www.payphone.com/shop/instructions/310Manual.pdf (Protel 310 installation/instruction manual, free download)

www.payphoneproducts.com (Midwest Payphone Supply)

www.paytelephone.com (North Atlantic, Inc.)

www.electronrepair.com/PayTech.html

www.theratecenter.com (programs/downloads current area codes/phone operating parameters to any payphone)

www.payphone2000.com

http://stores.ebay.com/Atomic-Threads    (sells manuals for payphones)

« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 01:13:21 pm by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 07:28:05 pm »
This would be our equivalent of those phones:



Would be nice, but these were only in cells on the streets as far as I remember.

In fact, I can't remember seeing a public phone since YEARS !


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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 03:59:18 am »
This would be our equivalent of those phones:

Would be nice, but these were only in cells on the streets as far as I remember.

In fact, I can't remember seeing a public phone since YEARS !

Those look cool, but not nearly as cool as the typical Western Electric style of payphone which was common from the '70s on (the private payphones like Intellicall, Protel, etc. look very similar with only minor differences in external appearance—though quite different internally). Here is a picture of a rotary and a touchtone version:



They weigh about 50 pounds and are built like a tank. The front chrome faceplates are solid and about 1/4" thick. The black housings are made from about 14 gauge steel and the vault plates are about 8 gauge steel.

The real Western Electrics are particularly cool because they use a brass bell ringer inside (the same ringer as is found on the legendary Western Electric model 500 desk and 554 wall phones). Those are the type of phones the phone company used to rent out to customers before the breakup of Ma Bell and the availablity of cheap Wal-Mart phones. I have a 554 in my kitchen:



And a 500 in my room:



These things have excellent sound quality and were built to last forever. You can see the brass bell ringer here:








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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2008, 11:07:00 am »
ha, I had one of those 500's as the house phone when I was a wee lad...in the late 80's. I bet I am one of the few of my generation to use a rotary phone that late. ;D IIRC, it was '93 or so before we got a touchtone phone - and even then it was a pulse dial. Definitely made it suck when I tried to call in to win those radio contests.

That thing was built like a tank, and was my favorite toy. I loved dialing it. It just had a "heft" to the dialing mechanism that wasn't the same on my fishcer price phone. :laugh2: I would hold the receiver button down and dial away.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2008, 01:42:24 pm »
ha, I had one of those 500's as the house phone when I was a wee lad...in the late 80's. I bet I am one of the few of my generation to use a rotary phone that late. ;D IIRC, it was '93 or so before we got a touchtone phone - and even then it was a pulse dial. Definitely made it suck when I tried to call in to win those radio contests.

There was a 554 in the kitchen and a 500 in my parents' room when I was a kid (both owned by the phone company of course). Mom let the phone company take them back in '86 (they had been there since '68 when my parents got married) and bought a couple of cheap $20 pushbutton phones from a department store. I hated those crappy phones and their pathetic sounding electronic ringers.

When I acquired the house I grew up in about 9 years ago, I made things right and put a black 554 back on the wall in the kitchen (which I searched for and bought online), which still had the metal wall jack that the phone company installed there in '68. It says on the handset:

Bell System Property
Not For Sale
Western Electric

Just like I remember as a kid.

A while later I came across a 500 that had been used as a kid's toy for God only knows how long. I got that for free and it went into my room.

A few years ago my niece was here and she wanted to call her mother. She went out into the kitchen and picked up the handset and just stared at it for a minute. Then she yelled to me, "Uncle? How do I dial this phone??" LOL.

Quote
That thing was built like a tank, and was my favorite toy. I loved dialing it. It just had a "heft" to the dialing mechanism that wasn't the same on my fishcer price phone. :laugh2: I would hold the receiver button down and dial away.

Yeah, they really were built to last forever. The last thing the phone company wanted to do was spend all of their time fixing/replacing their phones that they rented out. 

The 500 and 554 are the same internally BTW, aside from the repositioning of a few parts in order to fit their respective housings.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 01:45:31 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 02:08:23 pm »
Which brand / model is better for home use?

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 02:13:08 pm »
Which brand / model is better for home use?

Michael

A genuine Western Electric (also known as A.T. & T.) payphone that came from a Bell System company (Bell South, Qwest, Pacific Bell, etc.) as they are the easiest to convert for home use. Plus the fact they have the good old brass gong mechanical ringers to be easily heard in noisy environments.

All Western Electric single slot payphones have the coin return bucket mounted to the left of the coin box ("vault") door. Other manufacturers have it on the right of the vault door so as not to infringe on Western Electric's patents.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 02:18:48 pm by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 02:19:33 pm »
Which brand / model is better for home use?

Michael

If they are converted for home use then it doesn't matter. If you want it to charge for calls, then you'll need a COCOT. All of the brands mentioned by Ken besides Western Electric are COCOTs by default. Some Western Electrics are COCOTs too, like the one in the attached advertisement:


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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2008, 08:48:15 am »
A guy in Chicago is selling old Ameritech phones for $50.00.  They dont have the vault or keys, but do have a vault door.  Is this a good deal and where would I get a vault and keys?

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2008, 11:38:20 am »
A guy in Chicago is selling old Ameritech phones for $50.00.  They dont have the vault or keys, but do have a vault door.  Is this a good deal and where would I get a vault and keys?

Michael

www.payphone.com is an excellent parts source.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2008, 11:43:06 am »
ha, I had one of those 500's as the house phone when I was a wee lad...in the late 80's. I bet I am one of the few of my generation to use a rotary phone that late. ;D IIRC, it was '93 or so before we got a touchtone phone - and even then it was a pulse dial.


My grandfather still had one of those 500s as late as 1992.  He wouldn't get rid of it until his county implemented 911.  911 required a touchtone phone, or so they told us.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2008, 11:51:47 am »
Ken, can you clarify something here, as I think it needs to be. I am under the impression that home converted payphones CANNOT be operated on coins. Is there a way to do this, or is that a 100% factual statement?

Granted, you can drop coins in for fun, but they wouldn't do anything.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2008, 12:18:41 pm »
Retired from service Bell System "dumb" payphones required a signal from the telephone company operator to either collect coins into the cashbox or to return the coins to the customer. This is called "coin line service" which is normally only available to Bell system owned & operated payphones. That is why they are called "dumb" phones because they can't do anything without the telephone company's signal to "tell" the phone what to do with the money. If not converted for home use, coins would just sit in the coin hopper and jam up. The "dumb" circuit board in the phone can be set for price required to make a local phone call. As each coin is deposited, a very quick electronic pulse is sent to the telephone company operator or computer which tallies how much money has been put in. Once the correct amount is reached then the call is put through. In a home converted one, the coin hopper may have been removed or the relay coil is mechanically jammed into the "collect" position so that any coin inserted just falls into the cashbox. This can be a problem sometimes as when the coin relay armature is jammed it mechanically pushes a switch closed that shorts the phone line to ground signaling a constant busy signal. This is how the phone company knew the phone needed to be serviced. They'd call it's phone number and if it had a constant busy signal a coin collector was dispatched first. If the collector found the phone jammed with coins, he'd collect the money and clear the jam. If the problem was more serious the collector would have a service tech dispatched. The dip switches on the "dumb" circuit board are set to "free" pricing.

A privately owned payphone from one of the big 4 private payphone manufacturers has a "smart" circuit board inside it which, when properly programmed, will work with money on home phone lines and work as a fully functioning payphone. By law all payphones provide free 911 and operator calls. Many of the private payphones now have "volume control" functions for the receiver of the handset too.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2008, 12:23:40 pm »

Operators could send those pulses manually, too.  When I was small I used to put a penny in, then call the operator and tell her I needed to call for a ride home but the phone wasn't taking my dime... she would tell me to put it in again, when it didn't work, she would just activate the phone.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2008, 12:28:41 pm »
Exactly. The telephone company operators had "coin phone" control buttons at their consoles. These signals/pulses are not available on home or business lines. That's why the private payphone manufacturers developed the "smart" circuit boards since "coin lines" were not available to them.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2008, 12:41:31 pm »
Ah, thanks for that. So when is Saint going to give Ken a custom title? Something like "Smartest man in the room."

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2008, 12:45:25 pm »

smart circuit board inside

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2008, 12:55:28 pm »
Here is a picture of a Western Electric model 32-C "dumb" chassis (circuit board assembly) for use with telephone company coin phone lines.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2008, 05:00:38 pm »
Question for Ken:

Okay, so my phone (older Intellicall 3003) doesn't seem to work, which doesn't surprise me considering the cheap price and "as-is untested" status. When you plug it in (via the 24 VAC transformer), the coin hopper cycles, dumping any coins sitting in it into the cashbox.

However, when I connect the red and green wires in the phone line to the appropriate terminals on a phone wall jack, there is no dial tone—completely dead.

Assuming everything inside is hooked up correctly (which I believe it to be), would you say the  boardset is bad and/or needs to be programmed? Or maybe the handset is bad? Any suggestions for how I can troubleshoot it?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2008, 06:10:50 pm »
We never had any Intellicalls on our route. However, it's possible that you simply need to reverse the red and green phone wires.

If that doesn't help the phone may need to be "initialized" and/or programmed (contact the manufacturer or www.theratecenter.com).

Handsets are wired depending on the colors of the wires of your particular handset cable as there are several handset manufacturers out there. What color are the wires coming from your handset? There should be 4 wires.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2008, 08:45:08 pm »
We never had any Intellicalls on our route. However, it's possible that you simply need to reverse the red and green phone wires.

In the wall jack, I connected the red and green wires from the payphone to the same terminals that the existing red and green wires coming out of the wall were connected to. Are those sometimes backwards? I'll give it a try.

Edit: I tried it, but I guess that wasn't it. Since the coin hopper is cycling when plugged in, that means it is getting power, so that narrows it down to the board or the handset doesn't it?

Quote
If that doesn't help the phone may need to be "initialized" and/or programmed (contact the manufacturer or www.theratecenter.com).

Yeah, Intellicall said they can program the boards for $25 or repair and program for $40. I just want to try and make sure I'm not missing something before sending it to them.

Quote
Handsets are wired depending on the colors of the wires of your particular handset cable as there are several handset manufacturers out there. What color are the wires coming from your handset? There should be 4 wires.

The handset has 4 wires: green, black, red, and yellow. They connect to the backside of the keypad which has terminals that are labeled for the colors. The black and green go on the same terminal and then the red and yellow go on separate terminals.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 09:11:12 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2008, 09:20:48 pm »
I remember having some sort of "blue box" or "red box" or some color "box" program on my Commodore 64 that would generate tones.  A quarter sounds would be like 4 or 5 short beeps... I recorded that sound and took it to a payphone once and played it...I got a free call.

I didn't think it would work...but it did.

Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 10-28-21)

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2008, 11:20:44 pm »
Tip and ring being reversed shouldn't cause your phone not to have dial tone.  Some things you can try is briefly placing a small battery across the two leads going to the speaker of your handset and listening for a pop.  Also check your hook switch.  I don't have much experience with intellicalls but I know Protel boards have a battery, which if dead, will cause the phone to not have dial tone. 

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2008, 12:26:07 am »
I believe your handset wiring is this:

red and green are the microphone

yellow and black are the receiver

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2008, 01:00:13 am »
Tip and ring being reversed shouldn't cause your phone not to have dial tone.  Some things you can try is briefly placing a small battery across the two leads going to the speaker of your handset and listening for a pop.  Also check your hook switch.  I don't have much experience with intellicalls but I know Protel boards have a battery, which if dead, will cause the phone to not have dial tone. 

Well, the speaker of the handset works (the yellow and green wires make a pop through the speaker when connected to the positive and negative terminals of an AA battery). I don't know how to test the hookswitch. It makes a mechanical click sound when you press it down, like it is supposed to (like the click sound of a microswitch).

There is a short, fat, cylindrical-shaped battery on the boardset, a Sanyo "Laser Lithium" 3V, and it is highly dead—dead as in 0.00 VDC on the multimeter (I also tested the AA battery I used to test the speaker in the handset, just to make sure my multimeter was working correctly and I got 1.59 VDC). Maybe I'll call Intellicall and ask if that would cause the problem.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2008, 01:10:24 am »
If the battery is dead then the boards builtin test routine will not allow the board to come up. You'll need to replace the battery for sure and then test the phone again. The battery holds the memory of the phone's operating parameters, pricing, and programming. Chances are after replacing the battery the phone will need to be [programmed since the memory has been lost due to the dead battery.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2008, 01:33:36 am »
If the battery is dead then the boards builtin test routine will not allow the board to come up. You'll need to replace the battery for sure and then test the phone again. The battery holds the memory of the phone's operating parameters, pricing, and programming. Chances are after replacing the battery the phone will need to be [programmed since the memory has been lost due to the dead battery.

Well it looks like I'm sending the boardset to Intellicall. Judging from the $13 cost for a 3V Sanyo Laser Lithium at Radio Shack, those things aren't cheap. Since it will cost $25 just to program it, and only $15 more to repair and program it, then I might as well do that. Plus that will ensure that the boardset is working properly, whereas if I just bought a new battery, there could be other things wrong with the boardset that I don't know about yet.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2008, 01:38:05 am »
That sounds like a good plan. When sending the board in, ask them for any manuals too.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2008, 02:34:18 am »
This would be our equivalent of those phones:

Would be nice, but these were only in cells on the streets as far as I remember.

In fact, I can't remember seeing a public phone since YEARS !

Those look cool, but not nearly as cool as the typical Western Electric style of payphone which was common from the '70s on (t

I totally agree that the US phones look a lot better than that Dutch one....I remember seeing them in movies/tv and the push button dialing, and hearing the dial tones was really cool we thought ! (Was introduced later here).

So would a modified phone like that work when you use IP-phoning ?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2008, 09:24:57 am »
I am picking up 2 old Ameritech phones today.  What is the best way to tell if they are complete?  I will have a few to choose from, but they will not be plugged in.  Is there a good model or look to which i should choose?  From the photo I saw they said Ameritech and had the volume increse button on them.

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2008, 10:47:58 am »
See the porticus.org link in the earlier part of this thread for a look inside a complete phone. Volume controls on payphones are always optional equipment and only work with certain keypads and circuit board assemblies. If the phone already has a volume control on it then it has the correct parts installed.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2008, 11:43:25 am »
Ok thanks.  What happens if I dont the keys or a T-Bar?  Does someone sell T-Bars and can I drill out the key lock?

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2008, 11:45:31 am »
T-keys and locks are commonly available at the parts suppliers in the provided in the early part of this thread.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2008, 02:22:09 pm »
Does anyone know how to pick or drill a lock on a Western Electric / AT&T phone?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2008, 05:38:17 pm »
Is anyone soon coming to Europe and willing to carry one of those payphones as hand-luggage  ;) ;)

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2008, 05:52:57 pm »
Does anyone know how to pick or drill a lock on a Western Electric / AT&T phone?

Michael

You tube has some videos posted on this. Check under payphone lock and Medeco payphone lock.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2008, 12:08:54 am »
Ok I drilled out the center of the lock, but this thing still will not open.  Anyone have any ideas?  I am planning on getting a new lock, so I dont mind the destruction.  I still want to keep the housing in tack.  I have about a 3/8" hole, but the locking device is still working, how do i get it to disengage?

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2008, 01:44:21 am »
Which lock? There are four locks on a payphone: two for the coin vault and two for the upper housing (where the dial and circuit boards are).
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 01:46:03 am by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2008, 02:00:36 am »
The vault door I got open with a screw driver.  There was no second lock on the valut.  The upper housing I drilled the ky lock and I still need a T-key for the other part.  It was the upper keyed lock I drilled and still cant get open.  I need to find or make a T-key too.

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2008, 02:08:22 am »
Here's a video:



Sometimes you can pound a large straight slot screwdriver into the key lock and force turn it with vise grips clamped onto the screwdriver shaft.

Remember that with payphone locks you open the keylock first which frees the rest of the locking mechanism to allow the T-key to finish unlatching everything. T-keys are available at the vendors (like www.payphone.com) I listed in the early part of this thread.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2008, 05:56:16 am »
So how much do these thing weigh ? 20-25 Kg ?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2008, 10:24:59 am »
Ken,

I watched the video, but my lock is already drilled but still latched.  I cannot get the internal mech to disengage the lock.  Now I have been trying to rip it out with needle nose pliers.  The damn thing is built like Fort Knocks.  Anyone have any ideas on how to destro the rest of it so i can get the mech to unlock?

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2008, 11:23:49 am »
So how much do these thing weigh ? 20-25 Kg ?

They weigh 45 to 50 pounds depending on the particular circuit board, keypad, and coin acceptor assembly installed.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2008, 11:25:25 am »
Ken,

I watched the video, but my lock is already drilled but still latched.  I cannot get the internal mech to disengage the lock.  Now I have been trying to rip it out with needle nose pliers.  The damn thing is built like Fort Knocks.  Anyone have any ideas on how to destro the rest of it so i can get the mech to unlock?

Michael

Hole saw for metal, sized slightly less than the diameter of the lock.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2008, 12:16:51 pm »
In indoor applications, payphones mount to a "backboard". You mount the backboard to the wall, then the payphone mounts to the backboard.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2008, 06:34:58 pm »
In indoor applications, payphones mount to a "backboard". You mount the backboard to the wall, then the payphone mounts to the backboard.

I've seen plastic ("composite") payphone backboards for cheap online. Do you have any experience with those? I was wondering if they are any good. And also, are the backboards all the same pattern? For example, would an Intellicall mount to a Western Electric backboard?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2008, 09:15:30 pm »
I know western (coin return on left) and GTE (coin return on right) style cases will both mount to this style mounting bracket (assuming you are not using an enclosure).

http://www.payphone.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=16225&cat=267&page=1

The back of your payphone should have at least one (preferably two) of these brass mounting studs that hold the payphine to the bracket while you screw a few screws to it.

http://www.payphone.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=16297

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2008, 12:56:21 am »
Most Intellicall phones should mount to conventional payphone mounts and enclosures. Payphone backboards have a billion holes already in them so chances are that at least ten holes will line up with any coin phone.

I suppose the plastic/fiberglass backboards would be ok in a home application, but I would never use them in commercial applications. The plastic/fiberglass backboards were very easy to vandalize and they had a tendancy to warp which in turn knocked the payphone out of level front-to back which in turn caused coin jams.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 12:57:57 am by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2008, 12:10:16 am »
Ok I finally got the beast open. :dizzy:  I cleaned it out and hooked up the phone line.  I did a test and I can dial out and I can receive calls.  I have just a few more questions:
1) Can I change the volume of the ringer?  I want it louder!
2) Can I change the volume of the handset?  This model doesnt have the volume on the base, but the other I have does.
3) Can I still set this up to take coins?  All the equipment is still in the phone including the relay.

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2008, 01:12:11 am »
Ok I finally got the beast open. :dizzy:  I cleaned it out and hooked up the phone line.  I did a test and I can dial out and I can receive calls.  I have just a few more questions:
1) Can I change the volume of the ringer?  I want it louder!
2) Can I change the volume of the handset?  This model doesnt have the volume on the base, but the other I have does.
3) Can I still set this up to take coins?  All the equipment is still in the phone including the relay.

Michael

Pictures please!

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2008, 01:23:01 am »
I dont know how to post pics here, so I sent 3 to your PM.

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2008, 02:20:15 am »
Ok I finally got the beast open. :dizzy:  I cleaned it out and hooked up the phone line.  I did a test and I can dial out and I can receive calls.  I have just a few more questions:
1) Can I change the volume of the ringer?  I want it louder!
2) Can I change the volume of the handset?  This model doesnt have the volume on the base, but the other I have does.
3) Can I still set this up to take coins?  All the equipment is still in the phone including the relay.

Michael

#1 Yes indeed! The rear brass gong has a cast aluminum ring around it with serrations. Turn that ring (it has click stops) one way or the other to adjust loudness. What it does is move the gong closer to (quieter) or farther away (louder) from the clapper. The gong has an eccentric hole in it. This is exactly the same ringer/gong unit used in Western Electric home telephones.

#2 Only by ordering a "volume control kit" for Western Electric "dumb" chassis. I think yours is a model 32-C (should be stamped in red ink somewhere on the circuit board frame near the connectors for the upper housing. Kit sells for around $30 I think.

#3 NO NO NO. Even though all the coin handling equipment is present in your phone, you need a telephone company "coin line" service to make the coin relay collect or return any coins deposited. Otherwise any coins you put in simply fall into the relay hopper and just sit there until it jams knocking the phone out of service. Coin phone line service is only available to Bell Telephone company owned and operated payphones not to homes or businesses. If you really wanted it to operate on coins then you'd have to shell out some money and convert it into a "smart" phone. This would involve buying a "smart" circuit board made by one of the big 4 private payphone manufacturers (Intellicall, Protel, Elcotel/Quortech, or Ernest Telecom), a keypad/hookswitch assembly configured to work with the brand and model of circuit board selected, a new coin relay/hopper assembly configured to work with the brand and model of circuit board selected. This could be very costly.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2008, 09:57:43 am »
Thank you Ken! :notworthy:

I will change the ringer.  I wont get the volume kit as the other phone I have has one on it already, so I will keep that phone for myself.  Too bad about the coin line.  I was hoping a software program could be used, I am not about to spend more money to change it to a smart phone.

Michael

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2008, 05:11:30 am »
What is different about a coin line? Can you get asterisk to emulate one for an attached coinphone?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2008, 10:42:38 am »
A PPO line or coin line is provided by the telephone company for use of dumb or bright payphones.  It basically uses a coin card at the network switch to:
1) Register coin pulses sent by the payphone.
2) Determine the coin pulses are of a sufficient amount to place the call (although,        generally now, phones on a PPO line will only allow you to place a local call using coins).
3) Send a collect or refund signal to the payphone based on whether the connection was completed or not.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2008, 11:30:37 pm »
Hey Ken I got a question for you.....

I recently acquired a bell system phone redone for home use.  It came with the mounting bracket, key, and other stuff.  I plugged it into my phone jack and got a dial tone, heard the noise when i push the buttons, and makes calls.  For some reason, the bells inside don't work at all when i get a call!  I found a guy locally who's worked for the phone company repairing pay phones and home lines, and had him look at it.  Within a couple minutes and barley doing anything, he tested it and it rang!  When I got it back home, I tried it, and no bells ringing on a recieved call!  Is there something i'm missing?  I live in a home close to 100 y/old and has a seperate box with brass ringers in the kitchen.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2008, 12:19:08 am »
Probably too many ringers on the line. Or that old brass ringer box is drawing too much line current.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2008, 09:13:58 am »
That is what i'm thinking.  I did try to plug it into the jack that's connected to that old ringer box in the kitchen.  The bells in the box somewhat rang but not the payphone.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2008, 12:25:28 pm »
Temporarily disconnect all other ringers in your house and then try just the payphone's ringer. It should work. In the old days many people only had one ringer and those old units drew alot of current.

Now it could be very possible that the particular payphone you have may have the wrong frequency ringer installed.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2008, 12:53:28 pm »
Quote
Is anyone soon coming to Europe and willing to carry one of those payphones as hand-luggage  Wink Wink

I want one too, but can't think of a good place to have it in my house.   :(

I don't know what it is about payphones and the phone system in general from that era that is so fascinating to me. 

On a gaming-related note, didn't the Atari 2600 get its name from the 2600 Hz signal used on certain payphones?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600_hertz

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2008, 12:55:23 pm »
I just did that.  I disconnected all the other phones in the house, and connected the payphone to the phone jack in the kitchen.  The one that has the old box ringer.  The box rings, but not the payphone.  I have five phones in the house.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2008, 08:09:55 pm »
Hey guys, I just acquired 7 brand new (boxed) payphones (on auction) complete with keys, overlays, etc. I was going to list them on ebay, but if you guys wanted first crack at them, by all means let me know.

They are completely black phones (coin door is matte black), internal coin holder is also black. As stated above, they are BRAND NEW in their original box.

I also happened upon 25 8-liners that I will likely be parting out as most are missing motherboards.

They appear identical to this:

http://www.payphone.com/shop/catalog/Elcotel_Series5_XG-p-16228.html

But with a matte black coin door.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 08:38:51 pm by ZeroQuest »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2008, 03:18:14 am »
ha, I had one of those 500's as the house phone when I was a wee lad...in the late 80's. I bet I am one of the few of my generation to use a rotary phone that late. ;D IIRC, it was '93 or so before we got a touchtone phone - and even then it was a pulse dial. Definitely made it suck when I tried to call in to win those radio contests.

That thing was built like a tank, and was my favorite toy. I loved dialing it. It just had a "heft" to the dialing mechanism that wasn't the same on my fishcer price phone. :laugh2: I would hold the receiver button down and dial away.

I'm right there with you.  We had a black rotary in the basement and a gaudy yellow rotary upstairs well into the mid-90s.  The first pushbutton phone in the house was one my sister bought for herself in 1993.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2009, 01:37:00 am »
There is now a couple of different sellers on ebay who are selling electronic control boxes to make the old 3 slot payphones coin operated again. They operate just like they did originally. Refunds coins if no answer/number disconnected and collects coins when call answered.

Here are a couple of the auctions:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Coin-Controller-for-Three-Slot-Payphone-or-Coin-Phone_W0QQitemZ110450930745QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b7637439

http://cgi.ebay.com/A-Coin-Controller-For-Your-Antique-3-Slot-Payphone_W0QQitemZ300361465530QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45eef03eba

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2009, 02:59:03 pm »
....<whistles>....lotta money.....
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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2009, 03:06:25 pm »
Hey guys, I just acquired 7 brand new (boxed) payphones (on auction) complete with keys, overlays, etc. I was going to list them on ebay, but if you guys wanted first crack at them, by all means let me know.

How much?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2009, 10:29:31 am »
Hey guys, I just acquired 7 brand new (boxed) payphones (on auction) complete with keys, overlays, etc. I was going to list them on ebay, but if you guys wanted first crack at them, by all means let me know.

How much?
That post is from May 2008 and ZeroQuest hasn't logged in since Nov 2008.  He probably isn't going to see your question.   :o

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2009, 10:43:40 am »
Ahh...  I see...  Ken necro'd a 1.5 year old thread...    :banghead:

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2009, 06:01:15 am »
3) Can I still set this up to take coins?  All the equipment is still in the phone including the relay.

It might be possible to do this, actually.    However, it would require some experience with electronics to do this!    First you would have to know the voltage of the relay, the number of states it has controlling the coinbox and coin inserts and the pinout for it.   Next you would have to set up some kind of audio regonition or switch regonition when a nickel, dime, or coin is deposited and connect that to a PC.    Then, you would then need to connect the dial to the device (or make the input regonize audio touch-tones when initially dialed and delay them from going on the real phone line.     Based on the number one dials, you could then feed an audio signal into the handset speaker to tell the user "Please deposit X dollars and Y cents for Z minutes".    Then, you could then read the coin inputs to make sure that is deposited and then connect the handset to the phone line, make it dial the number, listen for a connection and start the timer.    The coin relay should then make the coins go into the slot after the call is connected, or when the person hangs up or just before needing to deposit additional coins.   

When the timer gets low, the system should play an audio message to "Please deposit X dollars and Y cents for an additional Z minutes"  Then, it should open the relay for depositing again and acccept the additional coins.   Give the user 20 seconds or so to deposit the coins, and if deposited extend the timer, and if the 20 seconds up, disconnect the line. 

It seems like that what you would need to do this is:

* Decoder for phone # touch-tones
* Touch tone dialer tones
* Pre-recorded audio of coin deposit instructions
* Audio mixer that supports phone line audio and computer audio
* Audio of "Please deposit" tones [Some Available from http://www.thisisarecording.com/pay_phone_deposit_required.html ]
* Interface for the coin relay voltage and amperage that can be controlled by a PC
* Interface for thethe coin mechanism to distinguish coins

This would take a fair amount of work to write the programming for this, but I think it could be done.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2009, 01:26:43 am »
Beautiful indoor payphone booth is on Olympia, Washington craigslist:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/clt/1468479340.html

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2009, 08:04:52 pm »
And yet another beautiful phone booth on Seattle craigslist:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/clt/1469553976.html


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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2010, 01:55:18 am »
It appears that Ernest Telecom (now known as Ernest Group) is no longer supporting or repairing or programming Ernest payphone boards. This leaves only the "big three" private payphone manufacturers: Intellicall, Protel, and Elcotel (also now known as Quortech Solutions).

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2010, 01:51:47 pm »
Here's a picture of the Wiltelco 5000 payphones made by Williams (the pinball manufacturer) in their Gurnee, Illinois plant. These phones have a vacuum fluorescent alphanumeric display located right under the "5000".

This photo is from 1988. I installed these in 1986 in the old (now converted into a church) Lacey Cinemas, an 8 plex movie theater in Olympia, Washington.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 01:53:31 pm by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2012, 01:49:44 pm »
I remember having some sort of "blue box" or "red box" or some color "box" program on my Commodore 64 that would generate tones.  A quarter sounds would be like 4 or 5 short beeps... I recorded that sound and took it to a payphone once and played it...I got a free call.

I didn't think it would work...but it did.



That would be the red box :)

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2012, 01:53:51 pm »
Damn I quoted a 4 year old post.  Go me!  :applaud:

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2012, 11:23:18 am »
Seems like quite a few payphones in my area are now being removed from the locations. Must have been at least a dozen of them removed from service in the last month.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #82 on: August 14, 2012, 01:26:56 pm »
Hello; I recently purchased a Western Electric single slot payphone. My intention is to convert it to coinless operation. I thought that by wiring the 2 phone leads to the R/G terminals, I would at least be able to receive an incoming call. The phone rings but no dial tone and lifting the handset does not pick up the call. Is a coinless circuit board required to use the phone at all? Is there troubleshooting that can be performed for this or is a coinless circuit board required. If so, do I need to provide any additional information to ensure I would be getting the right board? I did notice that there is a slot (currently empty) for a battery - looks to be 3v.  Is this required for all phone operation? Any information is appreciated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2012, 08:42:32 pm »
Sounds like you might have a privately owned payphone with a "smart" circuit board in it.

Regulated Bell Telephone operating companies generally do not use any batteries on any payphone boards.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2012, 10:54:00 am »
I installed the 3v battery (CR2) into the circuit board last night.  At first there was still no signal to the receiver.  I changed the battery orientation and I was finally getting a dial tone and could pick up an incoming call.  However, I immediate receive a recorded "error 1" message.  I assume that this means I must know program the circuit board, right?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2012, 11:00:33 am »
Sounds like you do have a "smart" board payphone. How about some pictures of the inside of your phone showing the boards?

This is what is inside a genuine Western Electric "regulated" telephone company payphone:

http://www.porticus.org/bell/telephones-payphones-modern.html
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 12:29:32 pm by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2012, 02:03:02 pm »
I have reviewed thos photos before and although they are very similar, the circuitry on the board is much more complex and has a "holder" for a 3v battery that was kind of hard to spot at first.  I wasn't expecting for it to even be there.  I will take pictures tonight and upload.  It was sure good to finally get a dial tone.  The message cuts in almost immediately but at least I know I'm on the right track.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #87 on: August 17, 2012, 08:45:48 pm »
Here are a few pictures of my Western Electric Single slot phone. A little dark but the detail looks good enough.  I'm assuming that programming the board is the next step, but I am unsure of the board type and the process.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #88 on: August 17, 2012, 10:04:13 pm »
That main board is an Elcotel "TSG" board. It is known as a "bright" board (not quite a full smart board) in that it does need some programming but still relies on some signals from the telephone company to operate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elcotel-TSG-Pay-Phone-Electronic-Chassis-Circuit-Board-/170889267576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c9cb4978

Quortech bought out Elcotel ten years ago and now Quortech is known as WiMacTel.

http://www.quortech.com/

Check with payphone.com to see if they can program it for you (a $25 fee).

The Rate Center programs most brands of payphones (for a small fee of course):

http://www.theratecenter.com/

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2012, 12:19:54 pm »
Thanks for all of the info Ken, I will contact payphone.com on Monday. 

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2012, 08:51:59 pm »
OK Ken, I've had some time to digest the information you forwarded and here is what I understand the steps to be:
1). remove my circuit board and send it to www.payphone.com for programming.
2). I figured I would then have to get a ratefile from www.ratecenter.com.  This step confuses me. I got on their website and reviewed the install guide.  This must have been a document written in the 80s because it is hard to compare with today's technology.  The thing I couldn't understand is how to actually download the ratefile to the actual phone.  The only thing I understand is how to download and unzip the file to my computer.  Getting it to the phone is a mystery to me unless I missed something.  It may be a mute point any way because her is what I would LIKE to do:  Since this is a phone in my garage  I would like all incoming calls to be free and all outgoing calls (no matter where or how long) to be a set fee like $0.25.  Is this an unreasonable idea?
3). Ken; you mentioned based on my circuit board that phone company intervention would be required.  Does this mean that I would have to get my hands on a "change controller board" to handle the phone company requirement?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #91 on: August 28, 2012, 01:18:44 pm »
I contacted Payphone.com and it was determined that I have a protel 8000 board and it required ANOTHER battery.  It is a specialty 4.8v unit that I never would have been able to find the location of the battery and the pinned connection to the circuit board.  Apparently this battery powers the coin relay and portions of the board.  Once I receive and install the battery, I have been given phone reset instruction that I'll give a shot.  Hopefully this works and I can move forward with the desired programming.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2012, 12:24:32 pm »
I installed the 4.8v Protel battery but had an awful time getting the phone to initialize.  I'm not sure but it seemed like the controller didn't recognize the keyset.  I finally disconnect/reconnected the battery and the connection to the front of the phone and was able to initialize the phone.  I can now receive calls and am prompted for $1.00 to place a local call.  Once the correct was deposited, the call went through.  I can't now remember but I'm pretty sure the coins weren't sent to the coinbox after the hang up.  From my limited experience with the phone and researching things on the internet, I am faced with one of two decsions:
1). Build/purchase a coin controller control board to process the coins on a completed call -or-
2). Program the phone to allow free outgoing calls

Are my assumptions correct?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2012, 02:40:46 pm »
Here's the manual for the Protel model 8000 board:

http://www.payphone411.com/proteldocuments/Protel_flash_8000Cv4.pdf

Details about the board:

http://www.payphone.com/Protel-Western-8000-Board.html

You change the programmable settings from "coin line" to "B1" (a.k.a. business line or non-coin line). Then have the phone downloaded with the latest rate files from payphone.com

That should make it work like it is supposed to (collect/return coins). Also, the rechargeable batteries on the board only charge when the phone is connected to a phone line and the handset is on-hook for about 24 hours if the battery is new or phone has not been used in at least 30 days.

Ram batteries:

http://www.payphone.com/Protel-RAM-Batteries.html

Payphone batteries:

http://www.payphone.com/Batteries-and-Battery-Chargers/
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 03:07:40 pm by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2012, 03:21:09 pm »
Hi Ken;
I actually downloaded the Protel Doc you referenced yesterday.  These are the initialization procedures supplied by payphone.com:
***
While phone is hung up, press and hold reset button.
 
While still holding program button lift handset.
 
Listen for a single beep on the handset, once you hear the beep release button.
 
Dial 00+payphone number+ * (star)
Phone beeps once
 
Dial 2801010024*
Phone beeps once
 
Dial 1861*
Phone beeps once
Then Hang up
***
They differ quite a bit from the process referenced in the document but should have converted to a non-coin line by the first step (ie 00+phone number+*).  I don't understand the other 2 codes in the payphone.com instructions but I got the expected "beep" from the phone. I will research other programmable options to see if I missed something.
I would really like to have a "custom" ratefile where all outgoing calls are a set amount ($0.25).  Is this possible?
The battery thing was really weird.  I installed the battery.  Originally tried unsuccessfully to program the board with a strange combination of beeps.  I kept the phone plugged into the phone line for 3-4 days.  Tried it again last night with the same results.  Unplugged/replugged pin connector from phone front to the board and unconnected/connected the battery.  All of a sudden. "Magic".

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2012, 03:25:20 pm »
For programming and rate file setup you will need to contact payphone.com or talk to tech support at Protel.

We never operated any Protel phones on our route so I am unfamiliar with programming/installing them.

http://www.protelinc.com/

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2012, 03:29:57 pm »
Thanks Ken; That was my next step anyway.  I'm slowly making progress. The phone now at least is acting like a phone.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2012, 03:37:40 pm »
Payphone.com sells a battery charger for the Protel 4.8 volt battery pack.

When connected to a phone line, the battery charge current is limited to 20 ma due to the restrictions of the phone line. Naturally, it would take a while to charge the battery. That's why they sell that external battery charger. The battery quick charges on that, then it's fully charged and ready to install in the phone. If you had a route of Protel payphones, it would make sense to buy the pricey battery charger.

I have a feeling your battery was not fully charged.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #98 on: September 05, 2012, 03:49:42 pm »
I surely would understand that. "Trickle Charges" are always at least an overnight process. I had planned to call payphone.com tomorrow to get an idea as to what programming options I have as far as simplifying the ratefile for my situation.  I was glad that my original call did prompt me for the $1.00 for the outgoing call because it proved that the coin processing worked. Writing this, I'm just not sure the coins were ejected into the box @hangup.  Is there any kind of circuitry/mechanism from the coin mech to the coinbox that would be required for the coin mech to know a coinbox is present?  There is a wire with a clip that is currently doing nothing that possibly could be attached to the box if it is required.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2012, 04:22:00 pm »
I think you are supposed to have something connected to that connector in picture 3 of yours. The gray and black wires it looks like.

There was an optional "coin level sensor" available that when the coins reached the top cover of the coin box, the phone would "call home" to report a full cashbox.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #100 on: September 07, 2012, 09:27:43 am »
I double checked the coin operation Wednesday evening and the change was actually being ejected into the coin box.  I had connected the gray/black wires previously.  The one bad thing that I discovered was that every time an incoming call would come in and you waited for more than one ring, the modem would kick in and disconnect the call.  All my initial testing was done standing next to the phone with my cell phone in hand.  Confused some people while attempting to call the house.  I called Payphone.com yesterday (who I highly recommend: very pleasant and cooperative).  I explained my desired usage of the phone and the issue with the modem noise on the line.  We came up with a solution of $0.25 for local calls and $0.50 for long distance calls with unlimited call time.  This was a perfect solution for me.  I get to use the phone as an actual payphone but don't make it a pain to use.  As far as the modem line noise, he couldn't eliminate the "call home" completely but he postponed it to after 15 rings.  This works out fine since the answering machine would kick in long before that anyway.  It took him a little while to send the program down to the phone but he called my cell to let me know it went fine.  The $25.00 programming charge was worth it.

A little masking and paint is all that is left.  I bought the mounting backing plate from payphone.com.  It's plastic but well made.  The holes to mount the phone and run the cord, line up perfectly. There are also plenty of hole options to mount to the wall.  I'll lag into studs on one side and use mollys for the other.

Thanks for all of your valuable help and insight.  These phones are great but obviously weren't originally made for home use.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #101 on: September 07, 2012, 11:06:38 am »
Pictures, pictures, pictures, please! :)

Let's see the backboard mounted with phone cable sticking out the hole.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #102 on: September 07, 2012, 11:24:53 am »
You got it.  I should have the plate mounted tonight.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2012, 08:24:14 pm »
I included a picture of the payphone wall mount plate.  There were no mounting instructions included but it's pretty straight foward.  My phone line is in a box nailed to a stud so I had one stud handy.  I used (2) 3/8" X 2 1/2" lag bolts on the stud side.  I had steel washers but couldn't use them because the bolt head would have protruded out of the recess in the plate.  I used 50lb wallboard anchors on the "molly" side since there was no stud there.  I was worried about using the wallboard anchor screw in the 3/8" mounting holes because of the slop.  I found some steel spacers at the hardware store that were actually a press fit in these holes and took up most of the slop with the anchor screw.  I had to cut a bit (maybe a 1/16") from the length of the spacers to accomodate the depth of the plate.  I also went up one size in width and increased the length of the supplied anchor screw just to be safe.  The phone weighs over 40 lbs.  Better to be safe than sorry.  As you can see from the picture there are a myriad of mounting holes in the plate.  The 4 pear shaped holes are for attaching the phone.  They line up fine with my phone.  You need 5/16" X 3/4" X 24(fine pitch) bolts in the phone holes.  I'll also try to use lock washers.  They'll fit through the large part of the pear shaped hole (barely) and will hopefully avoid any potential for the bolts working themselves out. 

I'm in the process of masking and painting the 2 phone halves.  It takes a while to cover everything with tape/newspaper/cardboard but it's easier than dis-assembling the phone from the case to paint.  This avoids any electronic issues on reassembly.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #104 on: September 09, 2012, 10:08:27 pm »
You're gonna need 4 of the brass phone mounting studs:

http://www.payphone.com/Brass-Mounting-Stud.html

They screw into the back of the phone from the outside. These are what "hang" the phone in those elongated slots in the backboard.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #105 on: September 10, 2012, 09:01:46 am »
Hi Ken;
Thanks for the info on the mounting studs.  I already did a "test" mount using the 5/16" X 3/4" X 24 (fine thread pitch).  They fit fine on the phone and mounting plate.  I will investigate the studs though.  Seems like there is a specialized part for everything.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2012, 10:56:42 am »
I wouldn't hang a phone without those mounting studs. They'll save you a broken foot.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2012, 11:07:22 am »
Ken;
I'll have to go home tonight and look at the back of the phone.  The 4 threaded holes on the back of my phone that align with the pear shaped holes on the mounting plate are 5/16" X 24, not 1/4 X 20 as advertised on the link you forwarded.  I don't know where the 1/4" X 20 studs would go.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2012, 11:10:41 am »
Contact payphone.com for the correct studs. I beleive there are different thread sizes dependent on whether you have a genuine Western Electric case or a GTE case.

North Atlantic has some:

http://www.naicomm.com/Security-Studs-p191.html
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 11:51:19 am by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2012, 12:23:46 pm »
Ken;
I've been thinking of this in between posts.  Here's how I think it works.  The 5/16" X 24 studs/bolts are for hanging the phone initially on the plate. The 1/4" X 20 studs are attached after the phone is mounted through the phone into the threaded inserts on the mounting plate.  These inserts are a smaller diameter than the ones on the phone.  This will ensure that no one could steal the phone by lifting it up and out. For security purposes.
I'm sure that there are special attachment studs for the phone too.  I will research your links further.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2012, 09:01:19 pm »
Ken;
I've been thinking of this in between posts.  Here's how I think it works.  The 5/16" X 24 studs/bolts are for hanging the phone initially on the plate. The 1/4" X 20 studs are attached after the phone is mounted through the phone into the threaded inserts on the mounting plate.  These inserts are a smaller diameter than the ones on the phone.  This will ensure that no one could steal the phone by lifting it up and out. For security purposes.
I'm sure that there are special attachment studs for the phone too.  I will research your links further.

That's correct. The brass security studs (5/16-24) screw into the threaded holes in the back of the payphone's lower housing, and interface with the keyhole slots in the backboard:



Those are actual security studs made specifically for the purpose of mounting a payphone. Some short 5/16-24 bolts from the hardware store may work, but unless you have a short sleeve on them to mimic the unthreaded portion of the real security studs, the phone may not quite align with the 1/4-20 screw holes while just hanging there.

After hanging the phone on the backboard by the brass studs in the keyhole slots, the 1/4-20 screws/bolts screw through holes in the phone's lower housing (4 available in the vault area and 3 available in the chassis / coin mechanism area) into threaded holes in the backboard. You need to remove the coin box, chassis, and coin mechanism first, for access to the screw holes:



By the way, that switch in the vault area with the gray and black wires is the "Vault Alarm Switch" - link. When you mount the phone, one of the 1/4-20 screws/bolts in the vault area will secure it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 02:36:56 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #111 on: September 13, 2012, 12:28:59 pm »
Thanks for the pictures Ken.  the one thing I didn't check was the alignment of the 1/4"X20 threaded holes with the holes in the phone.   The (4) 5/16"X24 bolts in the phone lined up with the keyway holes in the plate, so I figured everything was cool. 

BTW, I did try to buy the security bolts at payphone.com, but shipping came to > $12.00 for a $3.00 part.  That's not going to happen unless all else fails (just out of principal).  I also tried Nort Atlantic as you mentioned.  They have a $50.00 minimum order, so that was also a roadblock.
I really don't need the 1/4"X20 bolts any way since theft is really not an issue with my installation.  I'll make something work.  The important thing is getting the phone hung on the plate without "breaking my foot".

I've masked off both halves of the phone and will be painting this weekend.  I hope to have the phone mounted Sunday.  I'll report on my successes/failures.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2012, 02:56:56 pm »
Thanks for the pictures Ken.

No problem, but my name isn't Ken.

Quote
the one thing I didn't check was the alignment of the 1/4"X20 threaded holes with the holes in the phone.   The (4) 5/16"X24 bolts in the phone lined up with the keyway holes in the plate, so I figured everything was cool.

Yeah, the brass security studs have an unthreaded portion which is thicker than the threaded portion, and the unthreaded part is what rests on the bottom of the keyhole slots. If using hardware store bolts that are fully threaded, the phone is going to rest a little lower while hanging from them. The holes may still line up, as there is some margin for error built in. Even if they don't, you can lift up on the phone a bit to get the alignment you need while screwing in the 1/4-20 screws/bolts. The 5/16-24 hardware store bolts will keep the phone from falling on the floor while installing the 1/4-20 screws/bolts, and that's the important part.

Quote
BTW, I did try to buy the security bolts at payphone.com, but shipping came to > $12.00 for a $3.00 part.  That's not going to happen unless all else fails (just out of principal).

I don't blame you; it is patently absurd. They could be shipped USPS in a padded envelope for less than $2 (I know, because someone shipped me some that way).

Quote
I really don't need the 1/4"X20 bolts any way since theft is really not an issue with my installation.

When using the real brass security studs, the fit when just hanging from the keyhole slots is not tight; i.e., you can move the phone front-to-back about 1/8", and side-to-side some too. You want the 1/4-20 bolts just to tighten it down. They are dirt cheap at any hardware store anyway. I recommend truss head, or anything with a fairly low profile head. Hex head bolts can get in the way of mounting the chassis and the vault alarm switch. 

Quote
I've masked off both halves of the phone and will be painting this weekend.

Why mask anything off? You can just remove everything that you don't want paint to get on. Everything is easily removed from these phones; you can remove everything right down to the bare upper and lower housings in a matter of about 10 or 15 minutes using a screwdriver, a set of SAE sockets/wrenches, and a set of SAE allen wrenches.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 03:19:12 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #113 on: September 13, 2012, 03:47:51 pm »
Thanks for the valuable info.  Sorry about using the wrong name.  I wasn't paying as much attention to the "poster" as I should have.  As long as I have a little wiggle room for the alignment I should be fine.  From what I can see, the 1/4"X20 are mainly for anti-theft.  It appears that the 5/16"X24 will handle the "heavy lifting" support.  Without the 1/4"X20 bolts, anybody could just lift the phone off of it's mount.  I think even in the product description they are referenced as security studs.  I will certainly use a facsimile though as the prices preclude me from purchasing the "real things".

As far as masking vs assembly/reassembly, I have found it easier in the long run to take the simplest approach.  It might be cleaner and maybe faster (especially if you've done it before, which I haven't) to completely take everything apart, paint and then reassemble.  Masking and prepping has probably taken me @2hours.  After the paint dries, all I have to do is remove the tape and carboard and mount.  The only assemby I have to do is the locks since they were purchased seperately. 

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #114 on: September 13, 2012, 04:14:14 pm »
Thanks for the valuable info.  Sorry about using the wrong name.  I wasn't paying as much attention to the "poster" as I should have.

Not a problem at all.

Quote
As long as I have a little wiggle room for the alignment I should be fine.  From what I can see, the 1/4"X20 are mainly for anti-theft.  It appears that the 5/16"X24 will handle the "heavy lifting" support.  Without the 1/4"X20 bolts, anybody could just lift the phone off of it's mount.  I think even in the product description they are referenced as security studs.  I will certainly use a facsimile though as the prices preclude me from purchasing the "real things".

The 1/4-20 bolts/screws are indeed to prevent someone from simply lifting the phone up and off the backboard and walking away with it, but they also tighten the phone to the backboard. Without them, the phone will be wobbly (it won't fall, but you'll be able to easily shift it around, both side-to-side and front-to-back). They don't work the same as the stud / keyhole slot system on a conventional home wall phone, which is designed for a tight fit.

Now, using hardware store 5/16-24 bolts that are fully threaded may allow you to fine tune it so you get a tight fit in the keyhole slots, but depending on the length of the bolts you can find, you may run into problems screwing them in too far, thus interfering with reinstallation of the internal components of the phone (or if the internal components are still in the phone when you try to screw them it, they could prevent you from screwing them in far enough to obtain a tight fit in the keyhole slots).

The easiest way to mount your phone tightly is to simply get six or seven (or four at the very least) 1/4-20-3/4 truss head screws from the hardware store (which will come to a dollar or two); that's the way the phone was designed to be mounted.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2012, 04:28:55 pm »
That's exactly what I will do.  I have to admit, the 3/4" of the 5/16" bolts are a tad too long.  That's the shortest you can buy at the HW store and it's not worth trying to lop off 1/16". You're also right about the potential to screw the bolts in too far.  I made my test mount with all of the internal components installed.  There was a hard stop on at least one of the bolts.   I will use a lock washer to pick up some of the slack.  Can't use regular washers because the keyhole is too small. But like you said in an earlier post, I'll need a little wiggle room. to line the 1/4"X20 screws up anyway.  I'll pick up some 1/4 X 20 truss head screws and install for added holding power. 

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #116 on: September 17, 2012, 02:08:03 pm »
Weekend Update:  The back of the phone mounted to the plate without issue.  I Used the (4) 5/16" X 3/4" X 24 mounting bolts to hang the phone on the keyhole holes.  All of the 1/4" X 20 threaded inserts on the mounting plate lined up perfectly with the phone.  Other than dropping one of the 1/4" X 3/4" X 20 truss head screws into the coin return enclosure, I had no issues. I still had to go to the HW store to pick up the phone connectors to finish the wiring.  A car show kept me from doing that yesterday.  I did have to remove the keypad to give myself enough room to install the upper lock.  The good thing about masking around the areas to be painted is that I was able to preserve the stampings (yellow markings) on the inside of the phone and the back.  Owning an antique automobile has made me preserve originality as much as possible.

As soon as I finish the wiring and assembly, I will post a picture of the final product.  Hopefully this evening.  Thanks again.   

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2012, 03:39:21 pm »
@Jim Clark: Since you have the same Protel 8000 chassis as I do, and it was programmed by G-Tel like mine was, I have some questions about some strange behavior I've encountered with mine.

1. I can make and receive calls on the payphone without issue, and I can switch to another extension during a call (by picking up the handset on another phone and then hanging up the payphone) without issue. However, if I try to switch to the payphone during a call from another extension (by picking up the handset on the payphone and then hanging up the regular home phone on the same line), I can hear the person on the other end, but they can't hear me. After 25 seconds the payphone will say "error 6" and start beeping, which is the same thing that happens if you just randomly pick up the payphone's handset and do nothing but listen to the dialtone for 25 seconds. "Error 6" means:

"Handset off hook for more than 25 sec. and phone did not see any keypad or card reader activity"

So even though there is a call in progress, it doesn't seem to recognize that fact if the handset is picked up while the call is going on on another extension.

2. My payphone will ring for an incoming call even if the handset has been left off the hook. I think this only applies if it has been left off the hook long enough to say "error 6"; i.e., I don't think it could ring while an actual call is in progress.

Does your phone behave the same way?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #118 on: September 24, 2012, 12:24:39 pm »
I will check to see if my phones behavior is the same as yours.  Being that the phone is ~150' from the house in a detached garage, I will have to enlist my wife's assistance.  I never even thought to try how the phone would react with another extension.  I'll repost as soon as I can test.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #119 on: September 24, 2012, 08:46:08 pm »
I will check to see if my phones behavior is the same as yours.  Being that the phone is ~150' from the house in a detached garage, I will have to enlist my wife's assistance.  I never even thought to try how the phone would react with another extension.  I'll repost as soon as I can test.

Thanks.

By the way, I've confirmed that someone trying to call during an active call on the payphone will indeed get a busy signal (which is good; it would be screwy if it could ring while you were talking to someone on it).

I'd guess the reason why the payphone will ring when someone calls if its simply been left off the hook (long enough for the receiver to go silent), is so it can't be disabled by Joe Public leaving it off the hook. Otherwise, if someone left the handset off the hook on a payphone out in public, the owner/operator wouldn't be able to call into it to program it or check various other things, because he'd get a busy signal. It must have circuitry in the chassis that allows it to go "on hook" even if the hookswitch is in the "off hook" position.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #120 on: September 25, 2012, 12:33:49 am »
I know on Elcotel payphones there is a couple of programming options that would be handy here. One is called, "Use Payphone as Extension" and the other is "Time Off Hook". I'm wondering if Protel boards have anything like that in their programming?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #121 on: September 25, 2012, 09:20:28 am »
I know on Elcotel payphones there is a couple of programming options that would be handy here. One is called, "Use Payphone as Extension" and the other is "Time Off Hook". I'm wondering if Protel boards have anything like that in their programming?

Interesting. I'll bet they do. I'll call G-Tel and ask them about it.

I think that with the default programming (which you get when you initialize the phone), it works as a normal extension; but I'm not entirely sure. I did some testing of the phone before it was programmed by G-Tel, and I know I switched from phone to phone during a call without issue, but I can't remember specifically if I switched from a home phone to the payphone or if it was the other way around.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #122 on: September 25, 2012, 11:23:50 am »
I called G-Tel, and he said that Protels can't work as a normal extension; they have to detect the incoming call. He also mentioned that Elcotels can work as a normal extension.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #123 on: September 25, 2012, 11:40:50 am »
I know Elcotel's will work with extension phones. Several of our tavern payphone accounts were setup that way. Elcotel software starting with series 3 phone boards had the "Use Payphone as Extension" added to the software.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #124 on: September 25, 2012, 02:45:06 pm »
If the option is available, I wonder if that will require another $25 programming charge.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #125 on: September 25, 2012, 07:44:49 pm »
If the option is available, I wonder if that will require another $25 programming charge.

I don't think it would (they programmed mine 3 times before it was the way I wanted it, and they only charged me once), but according to Alfonso at G-Tel, the option to use as an extension isn't available on Protels (but he said it is on Elcotels, like Ken said). Also, I looked through the options on the Protel ExpressNet software ("Edit Options & Registers"), and I didn't see any option relating to using the phone as an extension.

It would be a nice option to have, i.e., if someone else in the house answers one of the home phones and it is for you, you could take the call on the payphone if you wanted; but I guess if it is a must-have option, one would need to replace the Protel chassis with an Elcotel chassis (and then it would definitely be another $25 to program it).

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #126 on: September 28, 2012, 07:55:23 pm »
Hi MaximRecoil:
I'm sorry it took me so long to respond to your request for my phone's behavior, but I've been tied up.  I finally got to it tonight and here's what I found:
1). Incoming calls with only the payphone - No issues
2). Incoming call: payphone picks up first, then an extension: payphone hangs up - call continues, speak/hear to extension OK
3). Incoming call: extension picks up first, then payphone: extension hangs up - call continues, speak/hear to payphone OK
4). Payphone receiver off hook for 20-25 seconds: beeping then "error 6" then line appears dead as you mentioned.  If you make a call to the phone at this time, the phone rings (even when off hook).  When you depress the switch hook, the call is connected.

I didn't notice any inability to be heard when one of the phones (extension or payphone) hung up from a call.
Did I miss something?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #127 on: September 29, 2012, 07:19:22 am »
Hi MaximRecoil:
I'm sorry it took me so long to respond to your request for my phone's behavior, but I've been tied up.  I finally got to it tonight and here's what I found:
1). Incoming calls with only the payphone - No issues
2). Incoming call: payphone picks up first, then an extension: payphone hangs up - call continues, speak/hear to extension OK
3). Incoming call: extension picks up first, then payphone: extension hangs up - call continues, speak/hear to payphone OK
4). Payphone receiver off hook for 20-25 seconds: beeping then "error 6" then line appears dead as you mentioned.  If you make a call to the phone at this time, the phone rings (even when off hook).  When you depress the switch hook, the call is connected.

I didn't notice any inability to be heard when one of the phones (extension or payphone) hung up from a call.
Did I miss something?

Interesting, and thanks for doing the test. Your payphone behaves the same as mine except for number 3, which is really strange (especially considering what the G-Tel guy said). In my case it goes like this:

3). Incoming call: extension picks up first, then payphone: extension hangs up (or not; doesn't change the results either way) - can hear caller but caller can't hear me; payphone "thinks" it is simply off the hook and starts beeping after 25 seconds and then goes silent.

I wanted to make sure that it wasn't the phone line wiring that was responsible, so I disconnected the payphone and hooked a normal home phone (Western Electric model 554) up to the line cord that I ran for the payphone, and it worked as a normal extension without issue; so there's nothing wrong with the wiring.

Is your phone service ordinary telco POTS? Also, what numbers do you hear when you dial *#62? This is supposed to be the firmware/software revision, and may be a little hard to catch the first time you try, but mine says: 8822000001 (before it says the numbers it says something that sounds like "dollar dollar"; no idea what that's all about [Edit: I believe that simply stands for DD, since Protel 8000 firmware revisions start with either CD or DD; DD being newer]).
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 07:43:14 am by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #128 on: September 29, 2012, 08:59:18 am »
My work used to have a payphone cabinet without a phone, that would have been great in a gameroom if I'd of thought of that :(

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #129 on: September 29, 2012, 11:46:09 am »
 MaximRecoil:

Try reversing the red & green wires of the incoming phone line inside the payphone to see if that helps with your problem.

Also, it might be possible your keypad assembly (a.k.a. "coin dial unit" ) may have a wiring error.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #130 on: September 29, 2012, 08:12:27 pm »
MaximRecoil:
I was uneasy about the difference between your phone's behavior on #3 on my previous post, so I performed the test again this morning.  I apologize because the results of my 2nd test was identical with yours.  On an incoming call, if the extension picks up the call first, the line is dead to the payphone.  I could not hear (although I'm not 100% sure my wife was speaking during the test, but it really doesn't matter anyway) or be heard.  The line appeared totally dead. So I guess the final proof is that these protel phones truely can not act as an extension. It's too bad because everything else acts as expected with the added advantage of making money for outgoing calls.
The response to *#62 was also: dollar dollar  + 8822000001 (same as your results)
Did you buy your phone from ebay from a guy in Alabama?  That's where I got mine.  They seem identical, but I'm sure there were thousands installed across the country.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #131 on: September 29, 2012, 09:10:41 pm »
MaximRecoil:

Try reversing the red & green wires of the incoming phone line inside the payphone to see if that helps with your problem.

Also, it might be possible your keypad assembly (a.k.a. "coin dial unit" ) may have a wiring error.

Yeah, this morning I was thinking about reversing the tip and ring wires, but rather than doing that, I entered diagnostic mode and did the loop current test as described in the manual:

Quote
Loop Current Test..........Dial [ * ] [ 3 ], if tip/ring properly connected, Voice = "Thank You".

(Failed)..........Warble tone in receiver = tip/ring are reversed or loop current from C.O. not detected by phone.


The voice said "Thank you" when I did the test. I also tested voltage and amperage of the loop current with a multimeter; it showed ~49 VDC @ 60 mA.

Also, I have two keypads; the one that came installed in it, and a standard 61C. The one that came installed in the phone doesn't have any alternate wiring options, not even for the handset, because it is all modular:



Both keypads produce identical results.

MaximRecoil:
I was uneasy about the difference between your phone's behavior on #3 on my previous post, so I performed the test again this morning.  I apologize because the results of my 2nd test was identical with yours.  On an incoming call, if the extension picks up the call first, the line is dead to the payphone.  I could not hear (although I'm not 100% sure my wife was speaking during the test, but it really doesn't matter anyway) or be heard.  The line appeared totally dead. So I guess the final proof is that these protel phones truely can not act as an extension. It's too bad because everything else acts as expected with the added advantage of making money for outgoing calls.
The response to *#62 was also: dollar dollar  + 8822000001 (same as your results)
Did you buy your phone from ebay from a guy in Alabama?  That's where I got mine.  They seem identical, but I'm sure there were thousands installed across the country.

Thanks for doing the test again.

I did some more tests of my own. I have 3 extensions in my house, plus the payphone. To add the line cord for the payphone, I simply connected its red and green wires to the red and green screw terminals within the modular jack that is on the wall beside my computer (then I ran the line cord under the floor and inside the wall that the payphone is hanging on). I also have a home phone (Western Electric model 2500) plugged into that same modular jack that is beside my computer. This results in the payphone being wired directly in parallel with the 2500.

My previous tests were done strictly with the 2500 and the payphone, and resulted in being able to hear on the payphone, but the transmitter was inactive and the phone would start beeping after 25 seconds and then go totally dead. However, this morning I did the test by first answering other extensions in the house (a Western Electric 554 in the kitchen and a Western Electric 500 in my bedroom), and I simply got a totally dead line when I then picked up the payphone's handset; i.e., I couldn't hear anything and it never started beeping; the same as you described.

I have no idea why it makes a difference which extension I answer first. Even though the 2500 is wired directly in parallel with the payphone; electrically speaking, the payphone is in parallel with all of the extensions; given that ultimately, I only have one phone line in the house. And like I mentioned earlier, when I disconnect the payphone and hook a normal home phone up in its place, it behaves as a normal extension no matter which other extension I answer first (which is exactly how one would expect it to behave).

I guess it doesn't matter though, because either way, the payphone doesn't work as an extension (unfortunately); I just can't imagine why it makes a difference which extension I pick up first, and that sort of bugs me in and of itself.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 09:25:46 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #132 on: September 29, 2012, 10:04:00 pm »
Maximrecoil;
My payphone is ~125 feet from the house in a detached garage, but is wired into the same single "bundle" that all of the extensions are connected.  This would imply that there is no preference to any of the extensions.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #133 on: September 29, 2012, 11:03:27 pm »
Electrically speaking, there should be no difference in any of my extensions either, but there is (though it is a meaningless difference in this context, because the payphone doesn't function as an extension either way).

For an incoming call, all 4 of my phones ring simultaneously (3 home phones, 1 payphone), and I can pick up any one of them and properly connect to the call. I can also make outgoing calls from any one of them without issue. This alone proves that they are all electrically in parallel with each other, given that there is no other way to make multiple telephones work on a single phone line than wiring them in parallel with each other (they all have to ultimately connect to the same single loop current from the telco). So as to why the [meaningless] difference that I described in my previous post exists: it is a complete mystery to me.

Edit: I figured it out; or at least narrowed it down. The difference has to do with the Western Electric 2500 itself. I disconnected the 554 in the kitchen and connected the 2500 in its place and then did the test on an incoming call by picking up the 2500's handset first, and then picking up the payphone's handset. I could hear the caller on the payphone but the transmitter was inactive (meaning they couldn't hear me), and then after 25 seconds it started beeping and then went completely silent, just like in my original tests; so that "feature" followed the 2500 to a different phone jack. When I put the 554 back in its place and tried again, it was just a dead line on the payphone (the same as when you did your most recent test).

The old Bell System Western Electric home phones, like the 2500, 554, and 500 all have networks in them with point-to-point wiring and terminal screws, so the wiring is changeable (unlike in "phone-on-a-chip" modern phones). There are various ways to wire their networks and still have them work properly, so the 2500's network is probably wired differently than the networks in my 554 and 500 phones, thus accounting for the [meaningless] difference.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 11:25:38 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #134 on: September 29, 2012, 11:32:57 pm »
MaximRecoil;
I agree.  There should be no behavioral differences when all phones are wired in parallel.  I will try a test from a different extension hopefully tomorrow.  We actually have an old analog rotary dial extension and I will try with that one. All testing to this point was done from a remote handset extension. 

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #135 on: September 30, 2012, 12:07:04 am »
MaximRecoil;
I agree.  There should be no behavioral differences when all phones are wired in parallel.  I will try a test from a different extension hopefully tomorrow.  We actually have an old analog rotary dial extension and I will try with that one. All testing to this point was done from a remote handset extension.

Oh yeah? What it is? A Western Electric 500? I love the old Western Electric rotary phones from the Bell System; I have two 500s and three 554s (554s are the wall mount version of the 500, same internals). The 2500 is essentially the same as the 500/554, except it is touch-tone; and they are still being cloned by several manufacturers to this day.

By the way, I don't know if you saw my edit to my previous post before you posted or not, but if not, the difference I described seems to be related to the individual phones themselves, not to the phone line wiring.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #136 on: September 30, 2012, 11:08:19 am »
Maximrecoil:
I realize the wiring would not be in the picture, but I'm also surprised that the phone itself could play a part.  The phone I have is a 30 year old reproduction of a 1920's farmhouse phone.  We actually bought it in the ATT store when we bought our first home.  It is a rotary dial but after more thought may convertto digital pulses.  I will try with this phone as well as a Western Electric digital wall mount that I have also had for >30years.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #137 on: September 30, 2012, 12:16:19 pm »
Maximrecoil:
I realize the wiring would not be in the picture, but I'm also surprised that the phone itself could play a part.  The phone I have is a 30 year old reproduction of a 1920's farmhouse phone.  We actually bought it in the ATT store when we bought our first home.  It is a rotary dial but after more thought may convertto digital pulses.  I will try with this phone as well as a Western Electric digital wall mount that I have also had for >30years.

All rotary phones send digital pulses natively; i.e., the dial simply opens or closes a leaf switch; two states; on or off; thus digital; specifically; binary digital. The dial mechanism has a cam that is against a leaf switch, so if you dial e.g. "7", the cam rotates 7 times as the dial is returning to its home state, thus opening and closing the switch 7 times. You can accomplish the same thing by pressing the hook switch 7 times at a steady and rapid pace (known as "switch-hooking"), assuming you do it within the margin of error that the telco equipment will accept. That margin of error seems to be a lot tighter these days than it used to be, making successful "switch-hooking" more difficult. The reason that works is because the dial mechanism's leaf switch and the hook switch are on the same circuit.

All of those rotary phones sold through the AT&T store back in those days had conventional rotary dial mechanisms, regardless of the exterior styling. The only attempt I've seen at updating a rotary dial mechanism is with some recent cheap Chinese-made knockoffs of Western Electric 500s (they are knockoffs only in a superficial sense, as they are very different internally), that use an optical system and a PCB to translate the dialed number to DTMF (touch-tone). These also include the * and # on the dial. See this thread for a review and pictures of one of those weird contraptions. These are not to be confused with other recent cheap knockoffs that sort of look like they have a rotary dial, but simply have ordinary pushbuttons where the finger holes would be on a real rotary dial fingerwheel.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #138 on: September 30, 2012, 06:18:12 pm »
I tested all different phone models in our home by picking up an incoming call with the extension first.  Here are the results:
Panasonic cordless: payphone line totally dead.
ATT Rotary: payphone line totally dead
Western Electric push button wall phone: payphone could hear conversation but could not be heard.  After ~20-25 seconds received "error 6" message.
This confirms MaximRecoil conclusion that the type of extension phone causes the payphone to behave differently on picking up the call.  Unfortunately this scenario makes the payphone unusable.  The payphone works as expected for all other scenarios.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #139 on: September 30, 2012, 09:44:43 pm »
This confirms MaximRecoil conclusion that the type of extension phone causes the payphone to behave differently on picking up the call.

Thanks for doing those additional tests. It is very strange that the type of extension phone could make a difference (though not a useful difference, unfortunately).

Protel is (or was) the most popular brand of smart chassis around. With hundreds of thousands of them out in the field at one time (during the height of payphone distribution in the late '90s / early '00s), it seems strange to me that there wasn't enough demand from payphone owners/operators for extension functionality for Protel to implement it. Elcotel obviously thought it was an important enough function to implement. I can see owners of bars in particular wanting their payphone to function as an extension. People often call bars asking to speak to a customer (or at least they often did prior to most everyone carrying cell phones), and instead of letting a drunk use your home phone that's behind the bar, they could tell them to pick up the call on the payphone.

I think I'll call Protel tomorrow and ask them about it. It is probably futile, but it won't hurt to try.

By the way, is your WE pushbutton wall phone a 2554? If so, it is fundamentally the same as my WE 2500 desk phone, which for me was also the phone that allowed me to hear but not be heard when picking up the payphone.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 10:08:42 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #140 on: October 01, 2012, 09:30:37 am »
I stand corrected again.  The Western Electric phone was actually replaced by the payphone.  The extension in the house that I tested with is a lookalike but turns out to be an ITT Model 255444 MBA-20M.  Thanks for following through with Protel.  I am looking forward to their response but I don't hold out too much hope for a solution.  If you need any further info on my phone/setup, let me know.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #141 on: October 01, 2012, 11:49:12 am »
I stand corrected again.  The Western Electric phone was actually replaced by the payphone.  The extension in the house that I tested with is a lookalike but turns out to be an ITT Model 255444 MBA-20M.  Thanks for following through with Protel.  I am looking forward to their response but I don't hold out too much hope for a solution.  If you need any further info on my phone/setup, let me know.

The ITT 2554 is the same thing as the Western Electric 2554; all parts are interchangeable. ITT was licensed to manufacturer Western Electric designs. Prior to the breakup of the Bell System, they were one of a few companies that sold phones to independent telcos which were then leased to subscribers. After the breakup of the Bell System, they sold directly to the public. They are still around, under the name Cortelco, and they still make the 2500 and 2554 phones. In fact, they even made 500 and 554 rotary phones right up until 2007.

Protel was useless by the way; they simply said they don't support payphones anymore. I said, "But you still sell payphones," and he said, "But only to distributors." I don't know why he thought that was relevant. Regardless of who you sell to, if you manufacture and sell something, you should be prepared to support it; period.

However, I did call a guy at Triad that I've already talked with a few times, and who seems to know his stuff, and he confirmed that the Protel can't work as an extension. He says the transmitter doesn't get enabled because it didn't detect an incoming call, and no money was inserted / no number dialed. He said there is no way around it. This is the same thing the G-Tel guy told me the other day, so I guess that's that.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #142 on: October 01, 2012, 12:03:52 pm »
First I've heard of Protel saying they don't support payphones anymore. They still have payphone stuff on their website. Protel was one of the first companies to get into the deregulated payphone manufacturing back in the late 1980's.

You could convert the payphone to an Elcotel board. However, that would also mean swapping out the relay coil and keypad to Elcotel versions. With Elcotel, you can definitely use it as an extension with no problems. The only drawback with Elcotel boards is they don't have the double gong ringer, only a cheap warbler ringer. We got around that by connecting some Radio Shack mechanical ringers like these:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062696

http://support.radioshack.com/productinfo/DocumentResults.asp?sku_id=43-174&Name=Telephone%20Accessories&Reuse=N

And don't forget, with Elcotel boards, you can program alot of the options yourself at the phone if you have a copy of the software manual. You don't necessarily need the computer program to program some things with an Elcotel. Sure the program is nice to have and speeds up programming.

http://www.payphone411.com/elcoteldocuments/manuals/CompactFieldGuide_ser5.pdf

Intellicall is still very much in the payphone business:

http://www.intellicall.com/

UPDATE: Intellicall has gone out of business a couple of years ago.

You might try talking to the folks at Midwest Payphone Supply for help with any payphone board problems:

http://www.payphoneproducts.com/
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 08:13:35 pm by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #143 on: October 01, 2012, 11:34:39 pm »
First I've heard of Protel saying they don't support payphones anymore. They still have payphone stuff on their website. Protel was one of the first companies to get into the deregulated payphone manufacturing back in the late 1980's.

It may be a very recent thing, or it may depend on who you get on the phone. I have called Protel once before, a couple/few weeks ago, to ask some questions about batteries and programming. The guy answered my questions, but when I asked if they repair and program their chassis (because I didn't know if my payphone worked or not at the time), he said, "We're trying to get away from payphones," and he mentioned that there are various other companies that repair and program payphones. This morning when I called their technical support number, whoever answered wouldn't even answer the simple question about using their payphone as an extension. He simply said they don't support payphones anymore, and offered to give me phone numbers of places that sell Protel payphones; suggesting I call them.

Being able to use the phone as an extension isn't important enough to me to replace the chassis. My payphone is right in my living room and I live alone, so there really isn't any reason that I'd need to use it as an extension. It would be a nice feature to have, but not critical for me. I suspect it would be a more important feature for Jim Clark though, considering his payphone is in a detached garage and he doesn't live alone, meaning someone else in his house might answer a call when he's in the garage, and he'd have no way to pick up the call out in the garage.

Quote
Intellicall is still very much in the payphone business:

http://www.intellicall.com/

They seem to be in business judging from their website, but just try to contact them. I have another payphone that I got for cheap several years (Intellicall chassis in a Tidel housing) that I was thinking about getting to work about a month ago (before I decided to find a Western Electric payphone), and I tried to contact them quite a few times and I could never get anyone on the phone. I also sent an email and never got a reply. And according to Teresa Sanders, Inside Sales Coordinator, G-Tel Enterprises Inc:

Quote
Everyone in the industry knows Intellicall went out of business years ago.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 11:37:14 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #144 on: October 02, 2012, 01:03:54 am »
From the Intellicall website:

 INTELLICALL HAS MOVED

New Address:
Intellicall, Inc
1333 W. Campbell Rd., #197
Richardson, TX 75080
 
NEW LOCAL PHONE NUMBER
214-635-4683

Toll Free 1.800.800.9091

Copyright © 2012 Intellicall Inc. All Rights Reserved

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #145 on: October 02, 2012, 03:57:02 am »
From the Intellicall website:

 INTELLICALL HAS MOVED

New Address:
Intellicall, Inc
1333 W. Campbell Rd., #197
Richardson, TX 75080
 
NEW LOCAL PHONE NUMBER
214-635-4683

Toll Free 1.800.800.9091

Copyright © 2012 Intellicall Inc. All Rights Reserved

Yes, those were the numbers I tried quite a few times about a month ago; no one ever answered (though at the time a voicemail recording identifying itself as Intellicall did answer). However, if you try either of those numbers right now, you get a recording which says:

"The seller of the 2007 BMW on AutoTrader.com is using Privacy Shield to protect personal contact information. We are calling the seller now ..."

Whoever owns those two Intellicall phone numbers has apparently repurposed them as contact numbers for selling his BMW.

So Protel is still around, but they are trying to distance themselves from payphones; Intellicall is MIA; and I can't find a site for QuorTech (Elcotel), aside from wimactel.com (the first result in Google for "QuorTech"), which doesn't even seem to be a manufacturer, but rather, a telephone services company.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 04:14:01 am by MaximRecoil »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #146 on: October 02, 2012, 11:10:46 am »
The people who would know anything at all about payphone manufacturers today is the California Payphone Association:

http://www.capayphoneassn.org/

California Payphone Association

1866 Clayton Rd Ste 213,

Concord, CA 94520

(925) 602-5367

It might be an idea to contact them.

Quortech (Elcotel) USA office:

Quortech Solutions, Inc.
3445 Seminole Trail, Suite 249
Charlottesville, VA 22911
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 03:52:21 pm by Ken Layton »

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #147 on: October 05, 2012, 10:53:39 pm »
Man, there are things that take me back in a good way....and there are things that don't. A payphone is one of 'em that don't.
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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #148 on: October 06, 2012, 05:04:44 am »
Man, there are things that take me back in a good way....and there are things that don't. A payphone is one of 'em that don't.

Why's that?

For me, even if I had no nostalgia for them, I would still want one, because of their iconic appearance and how tough they're built. For example, I've wanted one since I was about 10 years old in the mid '80s, and it obviously wasn't nostalgia then, since they were still everywhere at the time, and I wasn't old enough to be nostalgic about anything anyway.

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #149 on: October 08, 2012, 08:15:10 pm »
Man, there are things that take me back in a good way....and there are things that don't. A payphone is one of 'em that don't.

Why's that?

For me, even if I had no nostalgia for them, I would still want one, because of their iconic appearance and how tough they're built. For example, I've wanted one since I was about 10 years old in the mid '80s, and it obviously wasn't nostalgia then, since they were still everywhere at the time, and I wasn't old enough to be nostalgic about anything anyway.

Pay phones are a symbol of depravity for me, and were before I knew the word. And as child when I saw the old Dick Tracy cartoon, already decades in syndication, I wanted a watch phone. Or, what I have now, a smart phone.
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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #150 on: October 09, 2012, 06:39:48 am »
Pay phones are a symbol of depravity for me, and were before I knew the word. And as child when I saw the old Dick Tracy cartoon, already decades in syndication, I wanted a watch phone. Or, what I have now, a smart phone.

Payphones are a symbol of wickedness / moral corruption for you? That's odd. Would you care to elaborate?

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #151 on: October 27, 2012, 01:05:56 am »
I have scanned all of my Elcotel payphone manuals, product bulletins, Troubleshooter newsletters, and Payphone Network Manager manuals.

They are now posted here along with other brands/models of payphones:

http://www.payphone411.com/manuals.html

Additional documentation here:

http://www.payphone411.com/documentation.html


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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #152 on: October 27, 2012, 10:45:12 pm »
I know Protel 2000 and 7000 (not positive about 8000) can be used as an extension but it is kind of a hassle to do so.  There has to be a number programmed with no cost in the auto dial.  We used 211.  The procedure for it to work (has to be done in this order) is to answer a call on the extension, pick up the payphone, hang up the extension, dial 211 on the payphone.  The phone will then try to call out thus opening the microphone so you can talk.  This works 90 percent of the time and is only a workaround. 

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2012, 02:38:43 pm »
Interesting method. I never thought of that.

Of course with an Elcotel board, you just set it in the programming for "Payphone as Extension".

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #154 on: November 11, 2012, 12:20:53 am »
The G-Tel model 707 desktop style payphone. It looks like a bigger normal desktop telephone and it takes only quarters. This payphone plugs right into an ordinary phone jack. There is an "owner bypass key" that fits into the lock on the back of the payphone. Turning the key in one postion the phone operates strictly as a coin phone. In the other position the phone operates for free just like any ordinary telephone.

Attached is the instruction sheet that accompanied the phone and shows the dip switch settings.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 12:25:08 am by Ken Layton »

Ken Layton

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #155 on: October 31, 2014, 08:16:06 pm »
The manuals for the AT&T Private Payphone and Private Payphone Plus are now scanned and posted here:

http://www.payphone411.com/att/manuals/AT&T%20Private%20Payphone.pdf

http://www.payphone411.com/att/manuals/AT&T%20Private%20Payphone%20PLUS.pdf

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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #156 on: November 26, 2021, 02:08:05 pm »
RIP Ken! He thanklessly helped hundreds over the years. He'll be sorely missed by many.

I picked up a keyless elcotel (GTE) payphone over the summer and had to break into the vault. This is how I did it with a 4" angle grinder. You can order a new "vault door" of ebay for less than $20. You'll still need a T-Key.

FYI: To get the upper phone open, I drilled a quarter inch hole about a half inch above the key lock and bent the lock cam over with a small drift pin and a hammer.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 02:17:51 pm by MTPPC »
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Re: payphone for gameroom...
« Reply #157 on: December 27, 2021, 04:41:19 pm »
Thought a payphone in the arcade would be an interesting mod until I saw the cheapest one I could find was $300 before shipping, and who knows what that would be if they are 45+ lbs.