Neighborhood problem turns violent

[DrewKaree]

(What is the f'n fascination for some people with owning pitbulls?

Nothing is more fascinating about pits then any other dog to a dog lover. Why are you trying to make a distinction?

 

Let's take a look, shall we?

pits are the dog of choice to thugs and people who you wouldn't want owning a poodle let alone a bigger dog. People who like to see blood and death would have to pick a big dog with big teeth to do this.

Not only are you NOT so stupid that you don't get WHY people "make distinctions", you are even capable of making the distinction yourself.

Why do you ACT stupid, when you clearly understand the point?

Was it just your knee-jerk reaction that caused you to misread "some people" as "ALL people"?

Try this next time.  Read what was posted.  Count to eleventy brazillion.  Read what was posted again.  Write down what you think was said.  Read what was posted again, and highlight words that lead you to believe you got the point.  Look at your interpretation of what was said, and see if any of the highlighted words match what your interpretation is.

You clearly haven't been able to match the highlighted words with what you believe has been said.

Not all dog owners suck.  The dog owners that are tops on the "SUCK!" column are the ones who mistreat their animals.  A close second are the dog owners that mischaracterize the point of people because they can't separate themselves in order to make sense of a discussion about the animals they clearly have discombobulated.

[DrewKaree]

Tommy, would you feel the same if people walked around with Tigers, or bears, or any other wild beast?  Why so protective just because a particular animal falls into the "dog" category?

If Tommy owned a tiger, bear, or any other wild beast, he certainly would. 

As an aside, and since this thread will get crapped up with pit bull talk anyway and I can't be bothered to find those threads ,  if I have to jump through hoops just to own a lethal weapon to protect my family, then I see no problem with identical hoops being enacted for "dangerous animals".  In my state, there are such hoops for tigers/whatnot.  I'm for consistency.  Stick your nose in my business about a gun, then stick your nose in my business about a potentially lethal animal. 

If noses aren't put into my business about a potentially lethal animal, then take them out of my business about a potentially lethal object I choose to own.  Then I'll take threats against my family and deal with them in a manner that police and animal control are incapable of doing. 

Poor decision making by the shooter, but not entirely.  He simply made a choice for a potentially lethal animal owner who was apathetic towards such a decision or felt like Tommy, that "they could control the animal"

[AcidArmitage]

a while back on my street, 2 pitbulls started chasing a jogger and luckily a passerby in a car opened the door and let him in ( i wouldve ran over the ---daisies---). The owner of the dogs had to move because the 2 pitbulls had bitten someone before. What did he get this time? a $500 dollar fine. its crap.


Even if they ban the breed (Miami cant have pitbulls), They just declare that the dog is a mix... its crap. crap crap crap.

[mpm32]

Here's the thing, if you have a large dog and you know in your heart that it has the tendency to bite, keeping it around is like having loaded gun laying around.

My wife and I got an Akita.  Had him from a puppy.  We researched the breed and learned their characteristics.  They rarely bark, and will give little warning if they are going to attack.  Not good if the dog is 120 lbs with a very powerful jaw.

Knowing this we took him to trainers and obedience school right from the beginning.  We knew having a dog like this was a big responsibility.

He turned out to be a great dog until he was around 5 years old.

He started snapping and became really aggressive to me and my wife.  Then he knocked my mother down and looked like he was going to bite her face. (Although she probably deserved it.  )

Around this time we were thinking of having kids, and there were kids in the neighborhood.  One day the little girl from next door came over to sell cookies or something and the dog almost got out and got her.  I said to her father that we think we might have to put him down.

We called the Akita rescue group in NJ to see if there was anything we could do.  They asked us the breeders name, looked them up and told us that almost every dog from that breeder had problems and had to be put down.  Crappy dirtbag breeder.

When the neighbor told his wife that we were going to put him down, she came over and being an devout animal lover gave me the card of an obedience trainer and said we didn't have to put him down.

Boy was I pissed, it wasn't like we hadn't tried everything we could.  Then I said, if he got out and attacked your kids, it would be your lawyers card you would be handing me instead of this card.

If he ever did get out and hurt someone I would not be able to live with myself since I knew he had the propensity to bite.

So, I took him and had him put down.  One of the hardest things I had to do.

People need to take responsibility for their animals even if that means doing what's hard.

[lharles]

Here's the thing, if you have a large dog and you know in your heart that it has the tendency to bite, keeping it around is like having loaded gun laying around.

My wife and I got an Akita.  Had him from a puppy.  We researched the breed and learned their characteristics.  They rarely bark, and will give little warning if they are going to attack.  Not good if the dog is 120 lbs with a very powerful jaw.

Knowing this we took him to trainers and obedience school right from the beginning.  We knew having a dog like this was a big responsibility.

He turned out to be a great dog until he was around 5 years old.

He started snapping and became really aggressive to me and my wife.  Then he knocked my mother down and looked like he was going to bite her face. (Although she probably deserved it.  )

Around this time we were thinking of having kids, and there were kids in the neighborhood.  One day the little girl from next door came over to sell cookies or something and the dog almost got out and got her.  I said to her father that we think we might have to put him down.

We called the Akita rescue group in NJ to see if there was anything we could do.  They asked us the breeders name, looked them up and told us that almost every dog from that breeder had problems and had to be put down.  Crappy dirtbag breeder.

When the neighbor told his wife that we were going to put him down, she came over and being an devout animal lover gave me the card of an obedience trainer and said we didn't have to put him down.

Boy was I pissed, it wasn't like we hadn't tried everything we could.  Then I said, if he got out and attacked your kids, it would be your lawyers card you would be handing me instead of this card.

If he ever did get out and hurt someone I would not be able to live with myself since I knew he had the propensity to bite.

So, I took him and had him put down.  One of the hardest things I had to do.

People need to take responsibility for their animals even if that means doing what's hard.

I logged in after reading what you wrote just to say thanks for the story.  You painted a nice picture textually and made a point at the same time.  Good stuff. 

[shardian]

Here's the thing, if you have a large dog and you know in your heart that it has the tendency to bite, keeping it around is like having loaded gun laying around.

My wife and I got an Akita.  Had him from a puppy.  We researched the breed and learned their characteristics.  They rarely bark, and will give little warning if they are going to attack.  Not good if the dog is 120 lbs with a very powerful jaw.

Knowing this we took him to trainers and obedience school right from the beginning.  We knew having a dog like this was a big responsibility.

He turned out to be a great dog until he was around 5 years old.

He started snapping and became really aggressive to me and my wife.  Then he knocked my mother down and looked like he was going to bite her face. (Although she probably deserved it.  )

Around this time we were thinking of having kids, and there were kids in the neighborhood.  One day the little girl from next door came over to sell cookies or something and the dog almost got out and got her.  I said to her father that we think we might have to put him down.

We called the Akita rescue group in NJ to see if there was anything we could do.  They asked us the breeders name, looked them up and told us that almost every dog from that breeder had problems and had to be put down.  Crappy dirtbag breeder.

When the neighbor told his wife that we were going to put him down, she came over and being an devout animal lover gave me the card of an obedience trainer and said we didn't have to put him down.

Boy was I pissed, it wasn't like we hadn't tried everything we could.  Then I said, if he got out and attacked your kids, it would be your lawyers card you would be handing me instead of this card.

If he ever did get out and hurt someone I would not be able to live with myself since I knew he had the propensity to bite.

So, I took him and had him put down.  One of the hardest things I had to do.

People need to take responsibility for their animals even if that means doing what's hard.

Kudo's to you. Being a dog owner means alot more than filling a bowl with food and scooping poop. I bet that was very hard, but there really isn't much you can do for a dog with BRED social characteristics.

[tommy]

pits are the dog of choice to thugs and people who you wouldn't want owning a poodle let alone a bigger dog. People who like to see blood and death would have to pick a big dog with big teeth to do this.

Not only are you NOT so stupid that you don't get WHY people "make distinctions", you are even capable of making the distinction yourself.

Why do you ACT stupid, when you clearly understand the point?

Only the wrong people make this distinction when they choose to own these dogs, the people who are up to no good or are oblivious cause animals to attack.

There are 3 types of dog owners. One type is the regular owner who does not enforce any rules or boundaries with their animal and is really not in control of that situation and really does not know what it did wrong and was not looking for the dog to cause harm but it does anyway just by the owner not putting in enough time until the dog happens to bite someone, these people think the dog is born and nothing more is needed to ensure the dog is raised properly other than feeding it.

The second type of dog owner is not a dog owner at all, but is a person looking to make money off these dogs and only wants to see bad things happen and breed dogs to fight dogs. These dogs get loose and attack and bite anything it comes in contact with no matter what.

The third owner is a responsible person who knows about the bad rep and possible bad habits that were bread into the dog and take every precaution necessary to make sure the worst in that dog will never come to light by being strong with the dog, making sure the dog knows who is in control and giving it love. This works, I am proof of it and would put my life down in front of this dog and he would for me.

It is possible to make this sort of distinction about these dogs based of the owner of the dog, but real dog lovers and owners are not the ones letting these dogs get out of control and are NOT the ones who's dogs are attacking people. These people should not have to take the blame and be lumped in with the other two dog owner types.

With all that said, these rules and 3 dog owner types does not only apply to pit bulls but applies to any dog or animal a person could own. This could even apply to kids in some ways.

[shardian]

Tommy, you are not on trial here. This is a specific case that is dealing with one of those guys who gives pit owners like you a bad name. If you are so worried about YOUR rep, why don't you join some action group that works to get these dogs out of the hands of bad owners, shuts down bad breeders, outs dog righting rings, etc. Sitting at your pc and ranting "my dog is good, so all of them are good, see!" doesn't accomplish anything.

[tommy]

I'm not defending myself  but I want you all to understand what is going on and it is more than meets the eye at first look.

[patrickl]

With all that said, these rules and 3 dog owner types does not only apply to pit bulls but applies to any dog or animal a person could own. This could even apply to kids in some ways.

Yet the distinction still is that if a pit bull goes out of control that it maims or kills. If a poodle gets out of control it might put a tear in someones pants.

It's just like saying it's fine to drive 150mph on the highway since race car drivers can do this too. Obviously you don't solve this by making people drive slower you solve this by ... ehm yeah what?

[saint]

Shardian - your thread on a specific incident. Do you want me to clean out all the pro/con pit-bull stuff or leave it?

[tommy]

I'm done with the pit bull stuff if they are.

[shardian]

Shardian - your thread on a specific incident. Do you want me to clean out all the pro/con pit-bull stuff or leave it?

Can you just get rid of Tommy's posts? It would make it much more easy to ignore him.

Nah, it's okay as is. I'd prefer the pro-con pit stuff to end though.

[shardian]

Nah, it's okay as is. I'd prefer the pro-con pit stuff to end though.

No offense, but why exactly did you start this thread if that wasn't what you wanted to happen?

Thanks to Tommy, this has turned into the pit bull page, and you post a story about your neighbor committing vigilante justice on a pitbull?

Don't act surprised when things happen as everyone expects them to.   

I was just posting an incident that was relevant to a previous incident I had posted about. That was personal to me. Thought you all might find it interesting.

[ChadTower]

I have the perfect compromise.  People can have their pit bulls and sharidan's family can be completely safe from them.  The dogs can even roam freely without causing fear.

Put them in an Atlasphere!

[tommy]

Chad, you really should stop driving your car, one day by no fault of your own some idiot who does not know what they are doing is going to crash into you and it's too dangerous to risk.

[CCM]

Chad, you really should stop driving your car, one day by no fault of your own some idiot who does not know what they are doing is going to crash into you and it's too dangerous to risk.

Wow, you really are making less sense with every post....   

[tommy]

It was a reference to owning a dog and it's possible dangers and the dangers to driving a car. Either you stop both or you get rid of the idiots who cause the problems.

[ChadTower]

It was a reference to owning a dog and it's possible dangers and the dangers to driving a car. Either you stop both or you get rid of the idiots who cause the problems.

Can we put tommy in an Atlasphere?  There is a really steep hill probably 50 stories high not far from my house.

[tommy]

It was a reference to owning a dog and it's possible dangers and the dangers to driving a car. Either you stop both or you get rid of the idiots who cause the problems.

Can we put tommy in an Atlasphere?

That will work for me, put me somewhere where I don't have to deal with stupid people with stupid ideas.

[ChadTower]

If tommy ideates in the woods, but no one is there to hear him, was his idea still dumb?

[CCM]

It was a reference to owning a dog and it's possible dangers and the dangers to driving a car. Either you stop both or you get rid of the idiots who cause the problems.

Can we put tommy in an Atlasphere?

That will work for me, put me somewhere where I don't have to deal with stupid people with stupid ideas.

That wouldn't work for you,  you would still have to deal with yourself.

[patrickl]

Tommy always makes me think of the book "Flowers for Algernon".

[ChadTower]

Tommy always makes me think of the book "Flowers for Algernon".

 

[shardian]

Tommy always makes me think of the book "Flowers for Algernon".

I highly doubt Tommy knows that one, but if he did he would say "Yeah, but I'm only like the guy in the middle of the book".

[shardian]

Chad, you really should stop driving your car, one day by no fault of your own some idiot who does not know what they are doing is going to crash into you and it's too dangerous to risk.

As always, Tommy has missed the point. I'll fix it for you.

Chad, go take your car, perch it on that hill, put it in neutral, give it a shove then turn your back on it and don't worry where it goes from there.

Now you have a decent analogy of what the problem is.

[CCM]

Tommy always makes me think of the book "Flowers for Algernon".

I highly doubt Tommy knows that one, but if he did he would say "Yeah, but I'm only like the guy in the middle of the book".

 

[ChadTower]

All right!  I guess my car has free will!  Sweet! 

[tommy]

The idiot is in control of the other car, as is the idiot letting his dog run wild.

[shardian]

The idiot is in control of the other car, as is the idiot letting his dog run wild.

No, the idiot made the choice to let his "car" run wild. Whatever happens with the "car" outside his comfy house is of no concern to him...until someone comes up with a gun after his "car" ran into his daughter and her dog.

Ya dig?

[CCM]

The idiot is in control of the other car, as is the idiot letting his dog run wild.

Don't be so hard on yourself, Charlie.

[tommy]

You guys are impossible, you don't agree with a person and that's fine, I guess, but then you just act like a bunch of fools in an attempt to make jokes.

[ChadTower]

We don't make jokes, we let them run loose around the neighborhood and don't care who they attack.

[tommy]

We don't make jokes, we let them run loose around the neighborhood and don't care who they attack.

That's not very responsible. 

[Jouster]

Here's the thing, if you have a large dog and you know in your heart that it has the tendency to bite, keeping it around is like having loaded gun laying around...

WTF...aren't you supposed to be posting in the cheesecake thread??  Get back to work!

Jouster

[Jdurg]

One thing you have to keep in mind is that if aggressiveness and violent attacks are in the DNA of a creature, all the training in the world means nothing if the dog becomes ill or injured.  If a chihuhua(sp?) and a pitbull are both given the same obedience training and same domination routines by a competant owner, yet both dogs manage to come down with a cancer that causes them pain but shows no other outward symptoms, the pitbull is genetically more likely to lash out with a vicious attack than the chihuhua.  No training in the world can prevent that.

Is that likely to happen?  I can't tell since I don't know the cancer/illness rate in canines.  I'm just stating that training is very important and crucial to a well-behaved dog, but it won't remove what genetics has already put into place.

[tommy]

I can agree with most of that, but who is not going to go crazy with  brain cancer.   

[mpm32]

WTF...aren't you supposed to be posting in the cheesecake thread??  Get back to work!

Jouster

Oops, sorry back to the thread where I belong.   

[DrewKaree]

I'm not defending myself  but I want you all to understand what is going on and it is more than meets the eye at first look.

Incorrect.  You in fact ARE defending yourself.  You understand EVERYTHING about this, yet can't understand your inability to separate your SELF from the discussion and are clearly acting as if you're needing to defend yourself.  You're unable to see the argument clearly and as such, seem incapable of getting your actual point across WITHOUT it seeming as if you're doing exactly what Shardian stated.

Look for yourself.  You're all the proof you need:

This works, I am proof of it and would put my life down in front of this dog and he would for me.

You need to figure out some way to take SEVERAL steps back and look at the situation and reassess why you are seemingly "attacked" and your knee-jerk reaction to it.

The idiot is in control of the other car, as is the idiot letting his dog run wild.

Maybe channeling Ziaouche can help you realize the problem with your own argument

 

[tommy]

It's funny to see what you choose to quote from me and how you make it work for you.

I am constantly under attack because of my pit bull beliefs and I think you are not capable of even knowing what the hell you're talking about as a part-timer here these days.

If people want to continually attack pits I will be here continually defending them. End of story.

So many people here want to bad mouth these dogs at every turn and I'm not defending myself, I truly want others to see another point of view to break the habit of people hearing bad stories about these dogs and stop this crazy idea that they are all bad from going any further. All people hear are stories of this dog did this and that dog did that but maybe, just maybe if they can get an idea of the kind of person who may have owned these dogs that did this or that people may be able to put two and two together and see it was not really the dogs fault.