New user of DWjuke and I love it! But I also have some questions

[quarterback]

What a great program.   I had looked at it (WinCab/DosCab) but was kind of turned off by the "singles" style of setup in the default skin.  I was interested in an album-based layout and thought that WinCab just wasn't for me.   

So, I just got my 15" ELO touch screen and decided to delve back into the jukebox thing and quickly realized just how skinnable this thing is.   I'm currently using cddrd which I really like.  I was torn between that skin and the CD4-# skins, but the skin graphics on cddrd are more appealling to me.   However, with over 1300 "albums", only having 2 cds to a screen is going to cause me problems.  Which brings me to my series of questions

- I'm looking for a skin like cddrd but with more albums per screen.  I'd also like a "skip" button and a "pause" button and could do without the "select" button since it seems to simply work by itself anyway.  Anybody around here want to take a whack at modding this skin for me

- Is there a way to scan through the alphabet?  I read something somewhere about advancing alphabetically, so maybe my best option would be to add buttons that advance one letter at a time?   

- I also read a post where somebody requested that you coulc click a button and one skin would replace the other, so you could go from one "view" of the cd covers to a closer view with the track listings (or something like that).  I would love to see that option because it would also help me solve my current issue of album-overload

- I'm not sure I understand how the software decides what's an "album" and what is not.  I have some "genre" folders full of songs by a bunch of artists.  Most of the songs in those folders are assigned their own "album" with 1 or 2 tracks in it.  But other mp3s in those folders seem to be combined into compilation albums named whatever the folder is named.  How does the database make those decisions?


Thanks for a great app, Chris.   And happy 2008 to everybody!
qb

[ebateman21]

Perhaps you'd be interested in this modified version of my CDBox2 skin. I added a pause button, a skip button, and a button to control radio mode (free play).

I left the select and clear buttons. I don't know how well the numbers will work on a 15" monitor, and select and clear would be useful for correcting mistakes. You might be interested in requiring a selection button push (the control is in the jukebox.ini file, under AutoSelect).

I could probably add a few next alpha buttons as well if you were interested.

Feel free to browse all of my skins here: http://web.newsguy.com/ebateman21/wincab/index.htm


cdbox2a.zip



ebateman21

[quarterback]

You ROCK ebateman!

Love it.    I did some tweaking (I linked the radio button to the "esc" key, so I could easily shut down the program as I was testing) and then turned the select key into alphabet forward.   

My biggest problem is having over a thousand "albums".  It just makes it pretty difficult to deal with without a 'search' or multiple-layout setup like blah69 suggests here.  But I love the way it looks and functions and your skin pretty much hits the spot

I also need to figure out exactly how it's dealing with all my random songs.  I guess I could go through and retag them all so it wouldn't create albums with only one or two songs.   I'm going to mess around with the non-ID3 tag option and see if I can get a better organized database.

Thanks again ebateman, and if you want to add some alpha button graphics for me, I wouldn't complain   

I don't really need the "radio" button either.  I'm leaving this thing on free play and just going from there.   
Thanks again!

[Chris]

ebateman beat me to the punch on most of it, but I cabn answer this:

- I'm not sure I understand how the software decides what's an "album" and what is not.  I have some "genre" folders full of songs by a bunch of artists.  Most of the songs in those folders are assigned their own "album" with 1 or 2 tracks in it.  But other mp3s in those folders seem to be combined into compilation albums named whatever the folder is named.  How does the database make those decisions?

If id3 tags are enabled (as they are by default), the program looks at the Album part of the id3 tag; if no data is present in that field, it should assign an album name called "Singles".  If the tags are not enabled, it uses the name of the folder IF the folder is more than one level away from the root of the search.  The assumption is that if the song is in a folder right off the root, then the folder is likely the name of the artist.  If it is more than one level down, it assumes the folder name is the album and the one above it is the artist.  Does that make any sense?

[quarterback]

- If id3 tags are enabled (as they are by default), the program looks at the Album part of the id3 tag;

- if no data is present in that field, it should assign an album name called "Singles". 

-If the tags are not enabled, it uses the name of the folder IF the folder is more than one level away from the root of the search. 

The assumption is that if the song is in a folder right off the root, then the folder is likely the name of the artist.  If it is more than one level down, it assumes the folder name is the album and the one above it is the artist.  Does that make any sense?

I think my folder structure might be confusing things (it's certainly confusing me! )

I have a number of genre folders within my main mp3 folder, but basically it's laid out like this :
mp3s > Heavy Metal > bunch of individual songs AND album folders

Everything is ID tagged (although I won't promise that every single song has every single tag filled in).    The full-albums that I have are all in their own folders within each genre folder.   Those seem to work out fine.  The problem exists with all the individual songs within the genre folders. 

For example, in the Heavy Metal folder I have 36 album folders (full of entire albums) but in the Heavy Metal folder I also have 150 individual songs and this is where things get funky.

Most of those individual songs end up having "albums" created for them within DWJukebox.  Unfortunately, since there might only be two songs from any given album, I end up with a bunch of 2-song albums.    The thing that confuses me is that OTHER songs from those individual files end up being part of some "Various Artists" album compilations within DWJukebox.   

I've done some cursory (but ONLY cursory) investigation to look into the ID tags for the songs that end up being put into the "Various artist albums", but I haven't been able to determine why only those songs are put into "Various Artist albums" while the other individual songs are put into their own albums.   

The songs that get put into the DWJukebox "Various Artist" albums are NOT tagged as being "Various Artists", so this is some determination that DWJuke is making.  I'm just not sure how it's making the determination between which individual song gets its own album and which individual song gets put into a various artist compilation.

[Chris]

Simple solution:  Put all the genre folders under a master folder called "Music" or "Genres" or something, and leave your SongPath alone.  Thus, all the genre folders will be two levels deep and will become the de facto "album" for songs without album tags.  So instead of a huge "Singles/Various Artists" album you'll have an "album" called Rap, one called Rock, one called Punk, one called Polka, etc.

EDIT: You won't see the change in the albums unless you delete the files in the DATA folder.

[quarterback]

Simple solution:  Put all the genre folders under a master folder called "Music" or "Genres" or something, and leave your SongPath alone.  Thus, all the genre folders will be two levels deep and will become the de facto "album" for songs without album tags. 

Well, that's how they are right now because the genre folders area all within a primary mp3 folder.

Not that I think it makes a difference, but the primary mp3 folder is actually "iTunes Music" and I have many genre folders within that "iTunes Music" folder
iTunes Music > Heavy Metal
iTunes Music > Jazz
iTunes Music > 80's Hits
etc

Is the problem due to the fact that I also have full-album-directories within each genre directory?

So instead of a huge "Singles/Various Artists" album you'll have an "album" called Rap, one called Rock, one called Punk, one called Polka, etc.

The big Various Artists compilations aren't a problem for me.  The only problem I have are the single songs that aren't put into a Various Artists album.  What I don't understand is why some of those single songs are placed into "albums" that only have 1, 2, 3, or 4 songs.  I just don't understand why some are considered part of an "album" when others aren't and are, therefore, put into "Various Artists".   

I thought it might be ID3 tag related (and maybe it is somehow) but all those single individual tracks have "album" tags.  The ones that are put into a "various artists" group have album tags as well as the ones that are put into 2-song "albums", but they're being treated differently.

[Chris]

Simple solution:  Put all the genre folders under a master folder called "Music" or "Genres" or something, and leave your SongPath alone.  Thus, all the genre folders will be two levels deep and will become the de facto "album" for songs without album tags. 

Well, that's how they are right now because the genre folders area all within a primary mp3 folder.

The point is to put them one level farther down in relation to the folder that your SongPath points to.  So if SongPath points to the "primary mp3" folder, you could either add another "mp3" folder between the primary MP3 folder and the genre folders, or point SongPath to the folder above the primary MP3 folder (but that will probably pick up a bunch of folders you don't want).

Well, that's how they are right now because the genre folders area all within a primary mp3 folder.

Not that I think it makes a difference, but the primary mp3 folder is actually "iTunes Music" and I have many genre folders within that "iTunes Music" folder
iTunes Music > Heavy Metal
iTunes Music > Jazz
iTunes Music > 80's Hits

I'm assuming that your jukebox.ini has:

SongPath=C:\iTunes Music

If your iTunes Music folder had a folder called Genres, and all the Genre folders were in that folder, they woud be two levels deep, which would make the jukebox assume they were album folders, as it assumes a structure of Music\Artist\Album where Music is the SongPath.

I thought it might be ID3 tag related (and maybe it is somehow) but all those single individual tracks have "album" tags.  The ones that are put into a "various artists" group have album tags as well as the ones that are put into 2-song "albums", but they're being treated differently.

"Various Artists" is a bit of a red herring here. Any album grouping that does not have at least 50% of its songs by a single artist will show up as "Various Artists".  If the album name is completey unknown, it will go into an album called "Singles".

Have you changed the StrictAlbum setting in jukebox.ini?  You definately do NOT want to be using StrictAlbum=* with your folder arrangement.

--Chris

[quarterback]

Simple solution:  Put all the genre folders under a master folder called "Music" or "Genres" or something, and leave your SongPath alone.  Thus, all the genre folders will be two levels deep and will become the de facto "album" for songs without album tags. 

Well, that's how they are right now because the genre folders area all within a primary mp3 folder.

The point is to put them one level farther down in relation to the folder that your SongPath points to.  So if SongPath points to the "primary mp3" folder, you could either add another "mp3" folder between the primary MP3 folder and the genre folders, or point SongPath to the folder above the primary MP3 folder (but that will probably pick up a bunch of folders you don't want).

If your iTunes Music folder had a folder called Genres, and all the Genre folders were in that folder, they woud be two levels deep, which would make the jukebox assume they were album folders, as it assumes a structure of Music\Artist\Album where Music is the SongPath.

Gotcha.  I misunderstood the two levels deep. Part of the "problem" is that these directories are also used by iTunes when accessed by two other computers and are utilized by MusicMatch when accessed from another computer.   While it wouldn't be impossible for me to re-arrange the folder structure, I'm trying to avoid it.     

I have another related question.  Is there a way to exclude specific subdirectories?  You know, like putting something like "-c:/iTunes/crapIdontWantTohear" in the ini and having it skip those but still catalog "c:/iTunes/StuffILike"?

"Various Artists" is a bit of a red herring here. Any album grouping that does not have at least 50% of its songs by a single artist will show up as "Various Artists".  If the album name is completey unknown, it will go into an album called "Singles".

Have you changed the StrictAlbum setting in jukebox.ini?  You definately do NOT want to be using StrictAlbum=* with your folder arrangement.

I should check that.  If it's on by default, then I'm probably using it.   

Thanks Chris

[Chris]

Gotcha.  I misunderstood the two levels deep. Part of the "problem" is that these directories are also used by iTunes when accessed by two other computers and are utilized by MusicMatch when accessed from another computer.   While it wouldn't be impossible for me to re-arrange the folder structure, I'm trying to avoid it.     

OK... looks like I'll have to solve it on my end then by allowing you to specify a custom folder structure for non-tagged items. 

I have another related question.  Is there a way to exclude specific subdirectories?  You know, like putting something like "-c:/iTunes/crapIdontWantTohear" in the ini and having it skip those but still catalog "c:/iTunes/StuffILike"?

No, but there probably should be.

Have you changed the StrictAlbum setting in jukebox.ini?  You definately do NOT want to be using StrictAlbum=* with your folder arrangement.

I should check that.  If it's on by default, then I'm probably using it.   
[/quote]

It should not be in the default jukebox.ini, but sometimes when I'm testing I forget to revert a setting back before I package the build, so anything is possible.

[quarterback]

Gotcha.  I misunderstood the two levels deep. Part of the "problem" is that these directories are also used by iTunes when accessed by two other computers and are utilized by MusicMatch when accessed from another computer.   While it wouldn't be impossible for me to re-arrange the folder structure, I'm trying to avoid it.     

OK... looks like I'll have to solve it on my end then by allowing you to specify a custom folder structure for non-tagged items. 

Don't do that on my account.  I have a number of options here and I can work something out for myself.  I was just confused as to why it was 'seeing' some of those individual tracks differently than others.

I have another related question.  Is there a way to exclude specific subdirectories?  You know, like putting something like "-c:/iTunes/crapIdontWantTohear" in the ini and having it skip those but still catalog "c:/iTunes/StuffILike"?

No, but there probably should be.

That one I won't discourage you from adding     Not because it's a huge problem, but just because I think it would be a nice option and could be useful.

Have you changed the StrictAlbum setting in jukebox.ini?  You definately do NOT want to be using StrictAlbum=* with your folder arrangement.

I should check that.  If it's on by default, then I'm probably using it.   

It should not be in the default jukebox.ini, but sometimes when I'm testing I forget to revert a setting back before I package the build, so anything is possible.

FWIW (and don't take this as a complaint, because I'm grateful your juke even exists!) but the jukebox.ini file is still listed as "read-only".  It's not a tough fix on my end, but I noticed some posts that indicated a couple other people had problems saving their changes because of this.

[Chris]

Don't do that on my account.  I have a number of options here and I can work something out for myself.  I was just confused as to why it was 'seeing' some of those individual tracks differently than others.

Well, it's not a difficult change.  Anything that can be configurable probably should be.

That one I won't discourage you from adding     Not because it's a huge problem, but just because I think it would be a nice option and could be useful.

It shouldn't be difficult to add.

FWIW (and don't take this as a complaint, because I'm grateful your juke even exists!) but the jukebox.ini file is still listed as "read-only".  It's not a tough fix on my end, but I noticed some posts that indicated a couple other people had problems saving their changes because of this.

Nothing's a complaint; every comment, good or bad, improves the software.  I haven't bothered to fix this in 3.1.4 yet because I am hoping to release 3.1.5 this weekend.

[quarterback]

  Anything that can be configurable probably should be.

Nothing's a complaint; every comment, good or bad, improves the software. 

Well let me throw out a couple other things I thought about while trying to figure out this "various artists" problem.

Like I said, I actually don't mind the "various artists" albums because they basically become "Greatest Hits" for my songs which are already divided up into genres.  As I was trying to figure out a potential solution, a couple thoughts came to my mind.  One possible "solution" I came up with was to change the "Album" tags for all my random songs and identify them as "greatest hits" in an effort to force DWJuke to put them all together instead of breaking some apart.  The downside to this would be the fact that I'd be screwing up the accurate "album tags" by making them inaccurate.   So I had two other thoughts.  I'm not sure how exactly these would be implemented, but I'll throw them out there anyway:

- 1- Use of the "Comments" tag to organize/group songs.    While I don't want to screw up my "Album" tags just to group songs, the "comments" tag is one that I don't care about at all, so I thought maybe there could be a way to have DWJuke organize songs by info in the "Comments"

-2- The other thought was to actually utilize the "Genre" tags to group orphaned songs (those not in specific album folders).  Again, I'm not sure exactly what the syntax would be to use these, but the genre tag seems like it could be useful here

-3- As a followup to #2, I'd really like to be able to select songs based on genre.   Again, this goes back to the fact that I have over 10,000 songs currently loaded up, and will have more if I add ALL my mp3s.  With all those songs it takes forever to get to ones that I want to play.   This problem is compounded by the fact that I have a lot of different kinds of music, but there are times I'd want to skip entire genres all together.

For example, there are times I'd like to cue up a bunch of quieter, more mellow songs.  But in order to accomplish this, I'd have to scan, album-by-album, through all my Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Dead Kennedy's etc.  The alphabetic-advance doesn't help here obviously.  So if I could somehow ONLY show songs of a certain genre, that would make song selection much easier.  In the best case scenario, there would be some way to change genres on the fly through a button or something.

If this is completely impossible, I think the other option would be for me to have multiple data-bases.  I would create one database of "Metal", one database of "Mellow" one database of "1-hit wonders" etc and then somehow be able to load (or change) from one database to the other.

Of course, maybe this is already possible somehow and I just don't know it

Just some thoughts.
Thanks
qb

[Chris]

Like I said, I actually don't mind the "various artists" albums because they basically become "Greatest Hits" for my songs which are already divided up into genres.  As I was trying to figure out a potential solution, a couple thoughts came to my mind.  One possible "solution" I came up with was to change the "Album" tags for all my random songs and identify them as "greatest hits" in an effort to force DWJuke to put them all together instead of breaking some apart.  The downside to this would be the fact that I'd be screwing up the accurate "album tags" by making them inaccurate.   

Well, you could turn off ID3 support altogether.  Then all of your non-albumed songs would become part of an album called "Singles".  The big problem would be that the artist names would all be their genre and not the actual artist.  To try this, set UseID3=False and delete the contents of your Data directory.


<quote>
So I had two other thoughts.  I'm not sure how exactly these would be implemented, but I'll throw them out there anyway:

- 1- Use of the "Comments" tag to organize/group songs.    While I don't want to screw up my "Album" tags just to group songs, the "comments" tag is one that I don't care about at all, so I thought maybe there could be a way to have DWJuke organize songs by info in the "Comments"
</quote>
I currently don't read the Comment data at all, so I'd have to do some tinkering.

<quote>
-2- The other thought was to actually utilize the "Genre" tags to group orphaned songs (those not in specific album folders).  Again, I'm not sure exactly what the syntax would be to use these, but the genre tag seems like it could be useful here
</quote>

This is slightly complicated by the fact that Genre can hold multiple values.

<quote>
-3- As a followup to #2, I'd really like to be able to select songs based on genre.   Again, this goes back to the fact that I have over 10,000 songs currently loaded up, and will have more if I add ALL my mp3s.  With all those songs it takes forever to get to ones that I want to play.   This problem is compounded by the fact that I have a lot of different kinds of music, but there are times I'd want to skip entire genres all together.

For example, there are times I'd like to cue up a bunch of quieter, more mellow songs.  But in order to accomplish this, I'd have to scan, album-by-album, through all my Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Dead Kennedy's etc.  The alphabetic-advance doesn't help here obviously.  So if I could somehow ONLY show songs of a certain genre, that would make song selection much easier.  In the best case scenario, there would be some way to change genres on the fly through a button or something.

If this is completely impossible, I think the other option would be for me to have multiple data-bases.  I would create one database of "Metal", one database of "Mellow" one database of "1-hit wonders" etc and then somehow be able to load (or change) from one database to the other.
</quote>

This is coming, in the form of filters.  You will have the ability to filter on-the-fly on obvious things like artist, genre, and decade, and can create custom filters to have the same effect as multiple databases.  The problem is the simple database engine I built is not indexed in this fashion; I need to either build a much more robust database or move the system to using a real database like SQL.  This is of course a non-trivial overhaul; it is coming but it will mark a major version change.