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Author Topic: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway, The Project begins..  (Read 15016 times)

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Level42

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All of a sudden I got offered to buy two pinballs (from different sources !).

One machine is unknown but "there's a flashlight on the top"......... it is claimed to work...no further info. Will get more info in a bout a week's time....

The other one is a 1980 Williams Firepower. Status unknown. Does anybody know this machine and how is it ?
(http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=2331)



I am very tempted if the price is right :P
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 04:31:18 pm by Level42 »

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« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 03:46:53 pm by shardian »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? Williams Firepower
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 03:58:44 pm »

Firepower is a good pin.  System 6 is a nice robust architecture once well shopped.  Can't go wrong with System 6. 

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? Williams Firepower
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 05:13:35 pm »
Yeah great reviews so far....seems it's "star wars themed" without a license....

Both machines are "in the way", so I hope to score a great deal on one of them......

The one with the flashlight was said to be "30 years old, or so....but my brother-in-law is not exactly an expert :) ) I hate it....he calls me, asks "what a pinball costs these days"....So I say, depends very much on age, status and what pin it is. So I ask, do you know the name ? No.  Do you know if it has electronic counters ? What are electronic counters....so I stopped there.....then he says, would somewhere between 50 and 100 euro be OK ? It has to move... so I took a gamble and said yes, but that I still want to see it before. Not so much for the money, but I'm not planning on moving out someone else's garbage.....but he claims it works.....
What I really don't want is en electro-mechanical machine. I'm sorry but I'm en electronics guy, not mechanical (the SW yoke scares me ;) ) and I am so used to the newer, faster pins....those golden oldies look nice but they are sloooooowwwww..... :D

I will get some cell-phone pics from the Firepower tomorrow (I saw them today on my nephew's phone, it looked pretty good on those).....and I asked him to get a price they want for it....
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 05:16:10 pm by Level42 »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? Williams Firepower
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 08:04:40 pm »
What I really don't want is en electro-mechanical machine. I'm sorry but I'm en electronics guy, not mechanical (the SW yoke scares me ;) ) and I am so used to the newer, faster pins....those golden oldies look nice but they are sloooooowwwww..... :D


Jump on the Firepower if it's a good deal for you.  Firepower is one of the great classic pins of that era!


Don't knock EM pins,  I always have at least one EM pin around, something about the feel and sounds of EM make them special.  Not all EM's are slow clunkers,  I've got some later era Williams EM's that, once properly shopped, play killer fast and are quite challenging.  I just let a Williams Hang Glider go,  that thing played just as snappy as any 80's solid state (but the theme was a snoozer).


D

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? Williams Firepower
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 08:58:24 pm »
Firepower can be a pretty hard game unless you are a really good player.  You might want to set it up to be pretty easy at first until you get used to it.  Suggestion : Set it up for free play, 5 balls, extra ball's instead of specials, and extra ball's instead of replays at 250000, 500000, 750000 & 990000.  That makes for a longer more enjoyable game.  Get used to hitting the 3 left or 3 right center targets as soon as possible to light the left outlane kicker because it will eat your ball constantly.  The right outlane has a post that is adjustable if you use the screw hole to the left it will make it drain less often.  If the machine needs any work read the Williams system 3-7 guide at http://marvin3m.com/fix.htm, also there are schematics at http://www.firepowerpinball.com

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? Williams Firepower
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2008, 04:31:51 am »
OK, the latest on the offered pins:

The Firepower is probably not going to happen. The seller apparntly changed his mind, but I'm not in direct contact (via-via-via). I gave up hope on this one.

The other one, I just received a call about and it seems this WILL happen soon !

It's a Williams Getaway. It should be working and it's going to cost me €60,-
My brother in law will even help getting it to me :D

IF this is all true, I will be one happy guy !!!

[Edit] Bit worried. It could also be the old Allied Getaway (http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=999&picno=3625)........BUT,BUT,BUT the very first thing my brother-in-law told me that "there was a flashlight on top". That old Getaway doesn't have one.....



The Williams DOES (hard to be missed:

« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 06:03:42 am by Level42 »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2008, 10:15:03 am »
Either way, get it for 60 that price.  It's a steal for either.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2008, 10:24:15 am »
Transaction was already done. Even without seeing it :)

It's just a matter of when my bro-in-law will have time....

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2008, 05:23:02 pm »
the later getaway was an excellent pin,we had quite a few of these-good fun and real good earners.in my opinion from the era of greatness of williams.
slightly off topic but my fave pins were addams,gilligans island,star trek next gen,getaway,party zone,bride of pinbot
i am particulary keen on gilligans as it was the first pinball i ever worked on  :)

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 02:44:33 pm »
It is confirmed. I mailed my bro-in-law a picture of the machine and he confirmed it was the same  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 03:21:12 pm »
Saw my brother in law the other day and we settled on moving the Getaway next wednesday. He told that the pin now was at the lunch-room (or how do you call a place where you have lunch at work ?) where he works, but that the bosses don't want it to stay there (guess what for ! :D).

So I guess it's working then......

So how heavy are pins ? Gotta get it up two floors.....I bet they are freaking heavy....

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 04:19:53 pm »
not too heavy,just strap up the top box when you move it

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 01:36:55 am »
I checked the manual and it looks like the top box can be tilted down.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 10:30:42 am »
And of course take off the legs.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2008, 10:41:30 am »
Take off the legs, strap the head down tightly, and you'll be fine with two guys.  Two healthy men should be able to move a DMD pin without trouble.  The only thing you should have an issue with is if there is a tight turn on the stairs, but in that case, you can put it vertically on a hand truck.  Two guys should have no issue with that either.

Moving a pin up stairs is a lot easier than moving vid.  A lot easier.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2008, 02:01:44 pm »
Thanks, very useful info guys !! I already hoped that the pin would be easier. In fact, I only succeeded in getting two videogames upstairs: one was the dominos (had to take of the marquee box) and this is a small cab, the other is the Pleiads cocktail.....all the others are impossible to make the turns on my stairs.....

Would seperating the topbox from the body be difficult ? (Lots of wires ?)

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2008, 02:10:26 pm »
Thanks, very useful info guys !! I already hoped that the pin would be easier. In fact, I only succeeded in getting two videogames upstairs: one was the dominos (had to take of the marquee box) and this is a small cab, the other is the Pleiads cocktail.....all the others are impossible to make the turns on my stairs.....

Would seperating the topbox from the body be difficult ? (Lots of wires ?)

Lots of wires.  They fold down so you don't need to remove the head... and they're designed that way from a wiring perspective.  It can be done but it's not nearly as simple as with a non DMD Williams.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2008, 04:19:09 pm »
It's here !!! :)

My brother in law (he's in the first pic) already had it strapped up on his trailer when I arrived at his work. It was still on it's legs so I carefully suggested to remove them first. He didn't have time for that, so we drove off.....
He did remove the flashlight on top first (and forgot it there, will get it later) and he did fold down the backbox. I had some heartbeats while driving behind him seeing how the poor machine jumped on some bad bumps in the road (I would have driven slower probably....) Anyway it did arrive in one piece, and it was only a 15 min. drive....

The machine is very nice ! It's not mint, but I'd rank the overal condition "good".

I fired it up and got a lot of lights turned on and the dot-matrix saying Factory Settings Restored-Bookkeeping cleared. I learned from the manual (everything still there, in the original Williams envelope) that this was probably due to bad batteries.

Now I tried to remove them, but they seem to be stuck on the lower clamp. I guess that could be because of leaking ? It doesn't really show though....

First pics:






« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 04:21:09 pm by Level42 »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2008, 04:27:56 pm »

For what you paid, if it has most of its parts and isn't full of rabid weasels, you got a great deal.  Nice.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2008, 04:53:40 pm »
Yes I agree very much....

First repair work will probably be replacing the battery holder...like mentioned here (great and LOADS of repair info there) http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2008, 06:10:05 pm »
Heh, some bozo soldered the lower ends of the batteries to the clamps !!! I understand why though, that battery holder is worse then some of the cheap China one's I've seen !!!  :dunno

Gotta pick a better one up tomorrow....


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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2008, 08:34:34 am »
Wow, that game looks to be in great shape, congrats!

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2008, 05:19:00 pm »
OK had a little time to take a 2nd look at the batteries and alas, the PCB has suffered from an earlier leakage of batteries.
The chip right under the batteries show blue pins, and there's more bad looking stuff on the front and the back of the board:






Well, the settings chip was not getting the 4,5 V from the batteries to keep it's settings. I measured across the terminals of all batteries, and they were ok.

Then I measured across all batteries, no voltage. I _did_ measure about 3V across Battery 3 and 2, so these were OK. It went wrong between battery 2 and 1. So I checked if there was continuity between the + of battery 2 and the - of battery 1 => open !

So I lifted up the battery holder, and there I could see that the PCB track running from Bat.2 + to Bat.1 - was "eaten" by the battery acid, around the - connection of B1.

Gonna solder a jumper wire and give it a try. Then it will be cleaning this mess with water and vinegar (50/50) and probably resolder lots of connections and replace that chip....
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 05:21:13 pm by Level42 »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2008, 05:32:12 pm »
Haha, no, it's not upstairs yet.....it's still in my living room, much to my wife's regret........

But I bet she's going to play this one a lot, because she always plays pin when there's one around :)

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2008, 12:53:10 pm »
Sigh....

Sometimes you have those days.....

First I was spray painting the Centipede CP....bought a new can as the previous was empty, turns out this one sprays a lot more paint at once....so I get "drops" in the paint because of too thick layer (just 3 of them, but this means more sanding and painting..... :( )

Then I got a helper foolish enough to try move the Getaway up two stairs. Well, we didn't reach half the first stair. The weight was not the biggest problem, but we noticed that we could never make the turn in the stairs with the top-box on.
So I figured to take a look how much connectors would need to be disconnected to get the top-box of. Too many for my taste....

So I thought to look under the playfield, and to my dismay I found an entire loom loose in there. Turned out this was all the wiring going to the front of the pin, like the credit interface, coin door, test buttons, flipper buttons etc. Well loose connectors are not the worst thing, but there was also cut wiring to the ball release, plunger coil and some more wires.....

Guess it's all fixable, just a lot of extra work...

and my wife's really not happy about the pin still in the living room :S
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 12:54:49 pm by Level42 »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2008, 04:59:04 pm »

That is definitely a bunch more work.  Look at it this way - even if it takes 20 hours, you're still coming out ahead.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2008, 05:59:44 pm »
Yeah, I realise that :)



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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2008, 04:13:22 pm »
I know it's a long shot, but does anybody own a Getaway here ?

Pictures of the inner front side would be very helpful in reconnecting all wiring that was loose when I got it.

Thanks...

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2008, 04:19:02 pm »

Clubninja used to, I think... not sure if he still has it.

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2008, 04:05:43 pm »
OK, I did some first work on The Getaway. I bought a three AA battery holder, which conveniently comes with a clip (like a 9V block battery) and then the two wires. I completely removed the old battery holder from the CPU PCB and soldered the + and - wires from the battery holder. Fixed that !

This is not my picture, but from that great repair manual which gave me this idea. It looks much like it, although I didn't see the need for the diode and got a three position holder):



I also connected the biggest of the loose connectors. That one has to go to the credit interface. Once connected I was able to credit the machine with the mechs, and I can control the set-up/test menu's with the buttons in the coindoor.

Of course running the tests I have a range of problems.
There is no sound. The majority of solenoids don't respond, I have a ramp-up error, and of course a shifter error, but that's not connected yet, so that figures.
I was able to store time and date etc. and the machine remembers it after power-off, so the battery fix worked out nicely.

Here's a pic of all the loose wires.....why would somebody do this, or why is someone so stupid to manage to get it like this ??



Also, the wires from the ball-launch solenoid and the one that's in the outhole are cut-off close to the solenoids.....There should be some wire from the ball-launch solenoid to the High-power PCB that's mounted under the playfield, but there are no connectors and no wires going either to or from it  :banghead:

[Edit]Forgot to mention that the dot-matrix works like new. Not unimportant since these things are pretty expensive...
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 04:16:44 pm by Level42 »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2008, 04:16:42 pm »
Bloody hell! You have your work cut out for you mister. :dizzy:

I agree, why would anyone cut out all of those wires??

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2008, 04:22:41 pm »
It looks like someone opened the playfield while this loom was stuck somewhere, or something like that. The top pins of the big connector on the credit PCB were bent...

I just need to find the right color codes for the right connectors. Most of the wires still have the connectors, so that's just that. But there is a number of wires completely ripped off....

O, the test also indicated some ground short on some switch rows, but I can imagine that......

Also, f.i. the knocker connector was pulled. I reconnected it and it works fine......Weird, why remove it ?

The sound connectors puzzle me. There are two connectors on the sound board that should go to the speakers. Those connectors are in parallel according to the schematics. The connectors were loose. However each connector only has one wire.....how are the speakers hooked up like that ?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 04:24:48 pm by Level42 »

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Re: Pinballs offered, should I bite ? UPDATE: Williams Getaway IS HOME !!!!
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2008, 04:30:44 pm »
Also, f.i. the knocker connector was pulled. I reconnected it and it works fine......Weird, why remove it ?

Win a replay at 2am while the wife is asleep in the room above the gameroom. You'll understand once you recover from the beating.

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Haha, yeah it IS very loud. My son (yesterday) and my dad (today) got startled quite a bit when I tried it in the solenoids test...

I love that sound though, one of the things that really reminds me of the old arcade days :)

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Ok two questions:

How is the sound wiring supposed to run from the soundboard connectors to the speakers ? I have two molex connectors, both with a black/yellow wire. On one connectors the wire is on pin 2, on the other it's on 3. (Which would make sense if one is supposed to be the ground, the other the signal.

I've checked the diagrams, and the two output connectors on the soundboard are completely in parallel to each other.

Is there supposed to be one wire with the signal going from one speaker to the other (incl the bottom speaker ?) and then returning to ground on the soundboard through the other molex connector ?

When I'm now running the sound tests, I can hear something resonating to the sound of the music/effects, but I don't get any sound from the speakers.

Another question: Is there somewhere a single complete wire loom diagram ? There's nothing like that in the manuals that came with my machine.

ChadTower

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I'll check when I get home if I have PDFs of the Getaway manuals.  Maybe there is one you're missing.

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Could be.

This machine is getting more and more a mystery. I just checked the bottom speaker and there is simply NO wiring attached !?!!?!

This is going to be a tough cookie...


[Edit]Ooooohhh, just found the black/yellow and black wires part of the loose loom near the bottom speaker. Amp conn. missing on one, mounted one, connected both to the bottom speaker and WE HAVE SOUND ! Yeah, feels good, 2nd repair done :)

About two dozen to go..... :laugh:
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 10:56:16 am by Level42 »

Level42

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Another connector successfully reconnected. I can now "start" a game, but without the ball-kicker wired up, it won't do much other than play the begin-game sound (starting engine) and try a few solenoids to release balls....anyway, another baby step....

Level42

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Toss a ball onto the PF and play it anyway.  :D


Hah, tempting !
Not sure I've hooked up the flipper buttons right....I'll give it a shot :)

ChadTower

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Careful playing without the glass on... last year I was doing that testing something and actually had an airball fly up and smack the backglass.  Did not damage it - but what a wtf moment that would have been.

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Chad.........this is scary.

I just gave it a spin, and well some things actually worked (like the Supercharger :) !!!) When I pushed the right flipper button, the left would go, so there's obviously something I guessed wrong :)

But now, all the balls are locked in places that it won't release the balls anymore. I stupidly lifted the playfield again, and of course, a ball fell out, right on the topglass that I had parked on my couch for the moment. Of course I had put it on it's side, so it survived, but we had a good startle there !

Still fun to some things working......

I can hear solenoids go at random so there's still a lot to do.....some nice progress though :)

ChadTower

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Heh.  It's a law of physics... if you have a large sheet of glass in a place it shouldn't be, something will fall on it.  Always happens.  I'm paranoid enough now that I have a couple of backglass sized sheets of plywood around.  When I take a backglass out I immediately sandwich it between those sheets for protection, even if it's only for a few minutes.

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OK, left button now activates left flipper !
Right button now activates right-top flipper, but not the bottom one. Already see the problem: loose wire on the coil....no time to solder now....

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Maybe this guide can help you:

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index1.htm#list