Kasco - Ninja Gun

[Kevin Mullins]

Any of you guys have or know of an old EM game by Kasco called Ninja Gun that is being parted out?

I need a gun assembly....... the whole dang thing.

[Xiaou2]

 I was lucky enough to get my paws on a Ninja Gun.   However,  Im certainly not
parting it out.

 You may have some better luck on the arcade collector news groups.
The collector scene is pretty tight knit.    But, sometimes they are
very slow to get back to you... so being patient is key.

 Knowing a well connected collector can be a godsend...   as sometimes
they start telling others what someone is looking for,  and sooner than
later,  a guy recalls who has one,  where it is,  and finally..  how much
it will cost ya.

 Btw - show us a few pics.   Im curious to the condition she is in,
and also, to see any differences.

 Mine blew something recently I think - as its not functioning correctly
When I get a new job, maybe I can finally have a tech go over it.

 
 To all:   These pics cant do the game justice.   Camera cant capture the
3d art depth, nor the black-light grow.

[Kevin Mullins]

Wow !!

You actually shocked me when I saw that someone had not only responded, but the fact that you also had a Ninja Gun machine.
Yours appears to be in very good shape.

That's the first good picture I have seen of the actual gun assembly.
Would it be possible to get a couple more?
Also of the contact plate assembly underneath maybe?

I haven't cleaned mine up yet since I picked it up. It also has a couple yellow spray painted spots where the old operator was marking his stuff in a combined warehouse that I need to get off. (no idea why he thought that was a good idea)
But otherwise it's in pretty good shape with few dings from moving it around. I'll take a couple pics if I get it wiped down at least.

I have posted on a couple collectors groups about this one and have had a few nibbles at some information, but nothing substantial yet. Just not a whole lot out there about these.

[Xiaou2]

 When I was maybe 7yrs old,  I played the game at a  Local  amusement park. 
I LOVED the game!      and had fond memories of it ever since.   Sadly, the
park shut down.

 Years later... I saw a Ninja Gun machine for sale locally!    Sadly,  at the time
I didnt have the money.   I was also suspect of the seller - for not having a
machine that fully worked.   The people that were there, wouldnt let me test it,
which told me that it hadnt been fixed at the time of sale.

 I kicked myself for not getting it anyways.


 Then I saw another one on ebay.   It went well above my range.   It was in perfect
condition...  but interesting, the gun was shaped like a Cross bow!   Id never seen it
like that before.

 And finally,  there was one that popped up within the last few years,  and I couldnt
resist, and  Pulled the trigger!       

 
 I never would have thought to have seen the machine more than once in a lifetime.

 Yet, its unlike any other Gun game of a similar nature.   Especially cool, is the addition
of Holographic lit up ninjas that fly across the screen - by using the 2way mirror.

 
 I will try to snap some more pics for you.   It would be a shame to kill such a great
machine for lack of a gun.

 One thing...  are you absolutly sure that the Op does not have the gun still?   Maybe
it just got misplaced?


   I was having a hard time getting mine calibrated.   Then I realized it was shorting
out..  and soon,  it stopped doing the entire timed  Ninja  sequence.      That was a
mere 2 weeks after I got it.   Well,  at least its in amazing condition,  and that a
few games out of it before it crapped out.

     

[Kevin Mullins]

Cool story behind your find on your machine.
For me, I've just always loved the EM type stuff and had never seen this game before so I was immediately interested in it...... just because. Well, I was working with a local fella that had this one sitting in a warehouse he was clearing out, non-the-less I ended up with it for the hefty price of loading it in my truck. 
Of course I already figured the gun would be a challenge to find, but the rest of the game was in good enough shape to make it worth searching for. And all the cooler once I do find one.

I like the way they incorporated the flying ninjas and the jumping ninjas along the bottom. Very ingenius use of lights and mirrors.
And of course the 3D cardboard cutout scene does indeed look cool when actully looking through the glass/reflection.

It has crossed my mind to see if the old operator that originally had this machine might have the gun laying around somewhere. But he's not the one I actually got it from, but I do know who had it before him. (the one that did the yellow spray paint markings) I'm hoping to make a visit to his shop sometime soon. Of course it's so piled up it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack type affair.

Bummer that yours quit on you so soon after getting it. From what I've looked at on this one, they're not very complicated as far as circuitry goes, so that's a plus. Simple logic type chips and such.

Did yours make any other sounds other than the gunshot?

Does the label above the coin slot and coin return on yours say it came from North American Amusement? If so, what the serial number?

A couple quick pics of mine as the sun was setting, so they're not all that great.
(still needs a deep cleaning too)

[Kevin Mullins]

Came across this flyer pic awhile back..... sorry it's so small, but I haven't found a full size copy of it yet. (I think it was an ebay item in Japan or something when I found it)

[Xiaou2]

I Have more detailed pics.   Contact me.   I sent you a PM.

  Heres a few to chew on...

[Xiaou2]

Ngun Tracer:

 A springy reader thats like a record needle that crosses over the
traces of the encoder board.     On this pic,  the encoder was removed,
so you see the bare mount plate.

PCB mnt:

 Here you can see the trace PCB mounted

Encoder front / back
 
  Notice the dark areas.   Thats from the frictional wear and dirt of
the reader head.   It makes it easy to see where the limits of the reader is,
by looking at the dark shape.

 There are a few jumpers on the rear that pass thru to the top,  so Ive
scanned both sides.

Rifle1

   Ive included a scan from the manual of the gun assy.

Night

   Its hard to really capture,  as the camera cant catch it correctly.. however,
with a little photoshop tweak - that is close to how typical night sceen looks

Sunrise

  Near the end of the game,  a red light pops on,  simulating dawn.  Its
quite cool.   Again, hard to capture.. and had to tweak with photoshop to
get the approximate effect.    Both are so much better looking in person.

Cab

 Shows the gun a little more clearly from the top.   I have more close up pics as well.



 The same label as yours,  serial was stamped odd tho.   The first letter was both
a R and a K on top of each other - but the K seemed more dominant.   

 K33 18 6


 As for sounds... I have it apart so cant tell.   But from memory,  there are a few
that I recall.   The "Pfff"  when you fire.   The  "ARRRR"  when a Ninja is hit.   
A 'Teek Teek"  when you hit a 'Holographic Ninja'.      Maybe the arr is only when
the ninjas climbing the wall falls.   cant recall clearly.     

 If a ninja is hit,  a 'Flasher'  located in between the artwork will flash very brightly like a strobe.  Very cool effect.

   

[Xiaou2]

more pics

 Close up of the Bottom of the Gun assy.

 Close up of Artwork unlit

 Closeup  of Sunset lit

 Closeup  Of Top of Gun pivot

 Artwork Artificially lit by me holding a white light over it,
so one can see it a little more clearly.   Again,  not true to
how it looks in-game.  Just to show the look, without being too
dark - as camera cant capture details well in low light.

[Virgil Tracy]

I have two Kasco machines but no Ninja gun, I have an air fighter and Fly Duck. The gun set up looks the same as a flying duck, so maybe widen your search for Kasco parts to include others.

[Kevin Mullins]

Fantastic information.....
I'll definitly have to browse around and look at other Kasco machines now and see if they have other shooters like the flying duck one.

The pictures are awesome, you have no idea how much help that is. Kinda hard to go looking for something if ya have no idea what it looks like. 
And if al else fails, there still may be a possibility of reproducing something that will work from other bits and pieces.
The piece you are calling the "encoder" I actually do have. It's the only piece that was left in the machine. (found it in the bottom)

The serial number on mine positively starts with a K  ..... K33125

The only sounds I've been able to bring up so far is the gunshot if I fart around with the wiring that is supposed to go to the gun. Of course not being able to actully shoot anything probably keeps me from hearing or seeing much else happen. (duh)
I was just curious if it was suppose to have any kind of sound effect type "tune" or anything in the background. Obviously there doesn't seem to be any kind of true sound board with roms or anything of that sort, so I figured it might have some simple "dinking and doinking" in the background.

[Virgil Tracy]

The flying duck has an eight track in it for back ground noises but sadly I dont have the cart for it.

[Kevin Mullins]

Is your Flying Ducks similar to the Chcago Coin version?
http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyer&db=arcadedb&id=664&image=1

[Virgil Tracy]

Nearly the same machine, I know there is an 8 track in the pipeline for it.

[Kevin Mullins]

I saw this the other day, is this the "pipeline" you were refering to for the 8-track?
http://arcadearchive.com/em/sound/index.htm
They have one listed for the Chicago Coin Version coming soon.

[Virgil Tracy]

Yes thats the one, it has been coming soon for a long time, but I will wait.

[Kevin Mullins]

For those that may be interested I came across a site that has a pretty cool collection of EM type game flyers of all sorts...... EM Flyers

Their home page: http://www.stubbens.se/

[Kevin Mullins]

I need an opinion from you guys.....

How do you think the look and gameplay of this Ninja Gun would be with a pistol type gun instead of the rifle?

I found a guy that has one and the guts of the assembly seem to match perfectly.... just that it has a pistol instead of a rifle.
He's in Canada, so I can't "try" it out or anything.

[Virgil Tracy]

I think it would look fine.

[Xiaou2]

Nice score.

  The pistol is almost the same as the Rifle,  and probably could be modified to
be shaped more like a rifle.

 The game might be a little easier with the lighter and shorter gun.   However,
I think it will work ok,  and should look ok too.

[Kevin Mullins]

Hey Xiaou2 -

I could use two measurements just to be certain if this will work if you don't mind?

One from the bottom of the metal base (not the cabinet) to the center of the pivot bolt.
And one from the bottom of the metal base to the top of the gun.

From the measurements he has sent me and the best "guesstamates" I could measure on my cab, it seems like it will fit great and be totally functional. I just kinda want to be as sure as possible before I jump to buy it. See pic.

He's asking $100 plus $30 shipping.
Which considering I don't have a gun at all and have had NO luck with finding another..... might still be the way to go.
I haven't made it to the old operators warehouse yet to poke around and see if it may be floating around there. So I may at least try and do that first.

[Xiaou2]

Give me a day or so, and Ill grab them for you.

[Kevin Mullins]

Cool.... I'm in no hurry and I really appreciate the help.   

[Xiaou2]

Top  10" & 3/16
Bot     3" & 3/16

[Kevin Mullins]

Thanks..... those measurements are very close to what he sent me on the pistol, so I'm pretty certain now I can make it work.

[Xiaou2]

Opps.  I just realized something.

 The bot measurement was from the middle of the bolt up to the top of the bottom of
the control panel. (not the bottom of the metal base, as I was not about to remove it)

 Meaning, I didnt take into account the CP thickness.

 CP thickness is 3/4"

[Kevin Mullins]

So that bottom measurement is about 3 15/16" then ?
(darn near 4")

The other fella measured the pistol model to be right at 3".  (?)

[Xiaou2]

Kev,  I have a strong suspition he measured it wrong.   The details on the assembly look
identical, and I seriously doubt there would be another revision with different specs (costs).

 My guess is that he measured it when it was mounted on the CP... or messed
something else up.

 Send this to him to Remeasure against.

 (extra measurements for future references.  I went 'measure happy' )


 BTW - its easy to measure poorly because the thing pivots.   If he measured the
shaft when it was slighly off-center,  it would read different.

[Kevin Mullins]

Dang.... that's a hella detailed measurement diagram.
"measure happy" 

Yeah, In the back of my mind I'm thinking it oughta be the same exact mount system. Just the logical thing to do from a manufacturing standpoint.
The only slight difference maybe being in the overall height measuring from the control panel surface up, because the gun itself is designed different. (not enough to really effect gameplay though)

[Xiaou2]

Arcade History Preserved:

http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=ninja-gun&page=detail&id=14578

[ninjagun]

Xiaou2, do you have the owner's manual for this game? If so, could you please make some scans of it for me? I just bought a Ninja Gun game locally and I need all the information I can get about the schematics for this game.
It seems the motors may need replacing or oiling maybe. The wall-climbing ninjas and the ones running in the background don't move as they should. It's as if the motors are trying to move (they do move slowly) but they don't have enough power to go at the proper speed.
The "holographic" ninjas also don't light up properly. Could it be I need to replace some bulbs? I checked them visually and none seem to be burnt out. I don't see any blown fuses either. Also when I shoot a wall-climbing ninja, I don't hear any voice effect. Only a "buzz" indicating a hit. Are you sure on your game the ninja says something?
Also, could you post some pics of the coin-mechs in your game? Mine looks original but doesn't seem to be a proper fit, as the quarters don't drop into the slot properly. I'm just wondering if a part is missing on the coin-mech on mine. Any help is greatly appreciated. 

And did anyone here put that Ninja Gun video on youtube? Nice! 

[Xiaou2]

http://www.xiaou2.homestead.com/ngun.7z

 I had to buy my manual from ebay.  It was a lucky find at that.  Seems to be complete,
but am not sure.

 Paypal donation to get mine fixed would be greatly appreciated.  Id also post a
full correct vid on youtube once its fixed. 

 The video on youtube, does not have the black nor red light,  is missing 3 ninjas,
and has no shooting action, nor any sounds.


 xiaou2@hotmail.com  is my paypal.  thx


 The sound effect is not an actual voice.  Its just a sound effect.

[Xiaou2]

 Btw - Here are the lights:

 I replaced my bottom non-working Blacklight with a slightly larger one.

 My machine does not seem to have a Blue light as seen in this other machine.
I think that its either an original blacklight.. or,  it was an attract mode light
for when the game was Idle.   If anyone has any info on this Id be interested to hear it.

 The Top mounted tube blacklight looks factory... as the brackets are the same metal
as the other parts.  A goldish color metal thats probably zinc coated.

 Ive not took the red light out to inspect it.  I suspect its a white light that is painted
red.  not sure.


(Just for reference,  the Serial on the machine with the Blue light was  K33 19 5 )


 The machine with the blue light also had an Odd backdrop.  Though, out of a few
people that Ive talked to, nobody has had a machine with this installed.   
 It also wouldnt seem to make sense cause it would look odd when the red light
comes on I believe.    But, for reference, heres the odd backdrop pic.   If anyone
has this on their machine,  post a reply.

[ninjagun]

Thanks for those pics. My game doesn't have a red light bulb. It has a white one, and I don't see any red paint flakes anywhere indicating it may have been painted red at one time.

And I have to double check later, but I don't think my machine has a black light bulb. It does have the tube blacklight though.

In the owner's manual it lists 2 fluorescent lamps @20w. One fluorescent lamp @15w BLB (meaning black light blue). And one effective red lamp AC110v60w. I won't mention the other smaller lamps in the manual since there should be no doubt as to their color. 

I can identify that my game has a one white and one black light fluorescent tube lamp. And a white light bulb, or lamp as the manual calls it, where the red one is supposed to be. I haven't checked yet for the blue light you mention on the other machine. But according to the manual there should only be one BLB.

My game doesn't have that funky backdrop either. Since no other Ninja Gun machines have that, it's probably safe to say someone made that and put it in their game to take advantage of the black light effects.

And Xiaou2 , what is exactly wrong with your machine? On mine it seems the motors with chains need lubricating or rebuilding/replacement. And the "holographic" ninjas don't light up correctly. And my gun needs a bit of calibrating and is missing the sights on top. But it's still playable in a limited way.

[Kevin Mullins]

And Xiaou2 , what is exactly wrong with your machine? On mine it seems the motors with chains need lubricating or rebuilding/replacement. And the "holographic" ninjas don't light up correctly. And my gun needs a bit of calibrating and is missing the sights on top. But it's still playable in a limited way.

Although I haven't messed with mine in awhile..... it sounds like we all have common issues with all of our machines. Motors being a bit jerky and not comepletely running, holographic ninjas not doing their thing. I'd bet that once one of us get to fixing we'll figure it all out pretty quickly. I'm thinking it has something to do with the simple logic that is triggering the relays and such. I would start with cleaning any and all wiring connections from board to board and then doing the same for the relay sockets.

 

[Xiaou2]

Well,  I just saw a pic of another machine that had a white tube light in the marquee section.
I do not believe mine has one of those.  I will have to recheck, and look for any screw holes where
one might have been.

 Its also possible that the manual has a misprint, or,  that they changed some things
on different revisions of the game.

 
 Im wondering if the bottom unit is supposed to be lit up with a blacklight tube and
a white light tube.   I do not recall the game being very bright when I played it
as a child...  so I have a hard time thinking that there was a white tube in there
that was on during gamplay.   Though, I do know that the hidden light is supposed to be
red.  I recall that very vividly.


 Kev,  tell us what bulbs you have, and their colors please.

mine:

 marquee - none
 control panel - blacklight tube
 center beam -  tube  (bulb was missing)
 bottom - red screw-in lightbulb
 
 
 As for my machine... it was registering shots without pulling the trigger.  After
a short time,  the Ninjas wouldnt go through their cycles.  Only the red light would
pop on at the appropriate time.  The once working holo-ninjas no longer light at all.
 
 I dont believe its a motor problem.  The climbing ones 'jerk' on purpose when
ascending.   I believe there is some sort of logic issue.   I suppose I could try to clean
the relays.  But I suspect some component is blown somewhere.


----

 And Ninjagun.    where is your white tube located??   Is it under the control panel,  or
is it below that - on the support beam?

[ninjagun]

The other machine with a white tube in the marquee section would coincide with the number of fluorescent lights listed in the manual if it's a 20watt like the one located on the support beam. I'll check mine to verify if there is a white tube in the marquee section.

The white tube on mine is located on the support beam, which is longer than the black light under the control panel. I looked at it today and it seems the previous owner replaced the original tube with one that is about 1/4 inch or so too long for the tube fixture, forcing the edges of the fixture outward (so I've removed it for now). And they also replaced the red light with a normal 40watt soft white light bulb. What kind of paint should I use to paint a light bulb red? Spray paint? Or what places sell red light bulbs?

Do you think all the lights need to be of the required wattage as stated in the manual for the game to run correctly? And also do you think if one light is out it could cause the game to malfunction? Sort of how Christmas tree lights won't light at all if just one is bad or not screwed in all the way? I've checked all the small bulbs for the holographic ninjas and they don't look burned out. And I've checked the 2 flasher bulbs that light when you make a hit. But one flasher bulb doesn't light at all even though it looks fine.

And there is a component on my game that looks like it may either be blown/melted or just have some kind of clear epoxy over it. Can't tell for sure. I'll take a pic of it and let you compare it to what you have.

And with the coin-mech on mine, it turns out it was put in reversed. Easy fix.

With the wall-climbing ninjas and the running ninjas in the background, should their proper movement look like that Ninja Gun game video on youtube?



Mine don't even move half that fast. But the 3 red/orange ninjas seem to operate fine.

Oh, and what does the game do when it's idle? Any movements or sounds?

EDIT: Checked mine and the marquee white tube is in there.  And the fixture has the same specs as the white tube in the lower part of the cab. So if there are no other revisions of this game, the manual would be correct and there is only one black light used in this game.

Also, the serial number on the back of my cab is 343 and says made in Kyoto, Japan. The serial number on the front control panel is K33 132. Anyone else have a number on the back of their cab? I think the number on the back of the cab should be considered the true serial number for the game. North American Amusement just distributed the game in the USA right? They didn't actually make the game did they?

[ninjagun]

Anyone know what the usual selling price for Ninja Gun is?  I got mine locally for $220, which I consider a good deal for a game you won't find too often.

I just saw this post while searching google:

Ninja Gun (gun game), 1970's Kasco: $899.00
Background is in excellent shape as are the targets. Cabinet, glass, and gun are in very nice to excellent shape. Delivery available depending on your location. Can package and ship via NAVL, R&L, or a carrier of your choice. You are responsible for all shipping charges. If shipped, packing/palletizing charges will apply and range from $75.00 to $225.00. Can pick-up.

http://www.xmission.com/~daina/classified/data/machines_for_sale.5.html

Note: Use the "find on this page" function in your browser to locate the exact posting.

[ninjagun]

Concerning the red light bulb, would a 130volt 60W light bulb damage anything if I use it instead of the required 110v bulb?

[Xiaou2]

 Well, I believe I have at least got the Ninja problem solved.    I decided to unseat a few of the
relays to see what they looked like.   The contacts looked brand new...

  I then decided to restart the game, and see if I could see any mechanical hesitation.
I pushed the climbing ninja from the rear, to make it go.   And actually, there seemed to
be some hesitation every now and then.  I wiggled the board, and the ninja took off.  Seemed
to be a poor connection or something.  I turned it off, then unseated the connector for that
ninjas motor controller.   I cleaned the connectors - even tho they looked new.  And reseated it.

 Bam!     She fired up, and everything was working again!   Seems if one assembly isnt
working, it stops almost all the rest of the action.


 Well, actually, my gun is still apart from when I took the PCB out for Kevin.  Will be a nightmare
to re-align and calibrate everything again      And, I still do not think this fixes the
short that is causing a random shot to be fired.   Ahh well..   at least most things are in order now.


 I took apart the Holo-Ninja assemblies to clean, and scan them as well.   The area behind the mirror
was incredibly dusty.   In fact there is a 2nd mini mirror inside there, which deflects the holo-ninjas
to the front mirror.  Cleaned both.

 

 I paid a little over $1000 (including shipping)  for my unit on ebay.   You were very lucky to score
this game for so little.   Sadly though,  a lot of people either do not know about these games,
or think they are all the same - and not worth playing.    To be honest, play is limited... but,  its
just so damn cool.  Its a real work of art in every way.

 
 Im starting to think that maybe the guns tracker head has worn down too much over
the years.   Im not sure what the diameter of the thing is supposed to be.   I may have to
machine a new smaller tracer head to see if it works better.   As if its too thick, it may be hitting
too many traces at once - and causing misfires or other problems.

 
 My unit had a tube fixture that was an odd size, and the bulb I had bought was too large - by about
1/4"  - but i knew better than to pry it in.   I decided to replace the thing with a standard size
unit instead.

 Sadly, I didnt know about the top Marquee light till now.   I can see where there is one screw left
in the cab where it used to be.   I have no clue where its supposed to be wired into.   If anyone can
take a pic of the wire locations, Id be very happy. 

 More later...

 (Hopefully a new video soon    )

[Kevin Mullins]

marquee - none
 control panel - blacklight tube
 center beam -  tube  (bulb was missing)
 bottom - red screw-in lightbulb

Mine:
Directly behind the marquee - flourescent tube fixture (assumed white)
Directly below the control panel - Blacklight
Center horizontal beam in the front of the machine - White flourescent tube
Bottom - Red standard base screw in bulb

Mine has a fixture mounted directly behind the marquee. It's missing the tube, but I would assume it was white. I didn't measure it but it appeared to be an odd size..... reminded me of a jukebox bulb size. Kinda like Xiao2 had mentioned, usually just about a 1/4" difference from the standard stuff. I found a local sign/lighting/bulb supplier that carries the odd sized stuff, which is where I get mine for the jukebox, so I'll measure it and check there and let you guys know what i find out.

As for the red bulb - the 130V bulbs will work just fine. Those are rated at 130V for using in signs and such simply so that they will last longer. You'll find that most "sign" bulbs are rated at 130V. (my jukebox uses some 11W 130V so that's where I learned that) Sometimes I've seen red (and other colors) bulbs at Home Depot or Lowes etc. But check around for a sign/lighting/bulb supplier...... the prices are waaaay cheaper.
They may also carry the bulbs for the holographic ninjas as well. (I haven't looked to see what those bulbs are yet)

Glad to hear that some general maintenance and cleaning of the connections brought at least one of these machines back to life. I'll have to do that on mine sometime soon and see what happens. It will probably help alot, because it too used to work quite well when I first looked at the machine, but hasn't since. All of the machines we have and have come across seem to be clean and in good shape. so I'm assuming that maybe the tension on the connectors is just not all the greatest, so a good cleaning makes a big difference.

Xiaou2 - I wonder if you could simply unplug the "trigger" wires and see if your machine still randomly fires.
If it doesn't then it may just be a flaky trigger switch.
If it still randomly mis-fires with the trigger unplugged then it's probably a logic issue.

The marquee light was wired to a two terminal block at the very back of the machine on the right hand side (looking at it from the back) on that upper shelf where all the relays and such are near the marquee.
Couldn't take a picture for ya, it was already too dark out and mines in storage with no power yet. But I can try as soon as I get home from work if you still need it.

Can't wait for a new video!!...... I'm sure it'll be better than the one out on YouTube right now.

(dang...... I'm really itching to get a gun mounted on mine now)

[Xiaou2]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01bxPLnP2bk[/youtube]

 Ok, heres my first youtube vid      Sadly, its not the best.   I attribute it to the
dark conditions needed to capture the blacklight effect and keep out glass reflections..
as well as using crappy windows encoder program.   I didnt have anything else installed yet.

 Sadly, the beautiful sunset turned out the worst.  The cameras light sensor got confused,
and made it white and a real mess.

 I will do another vid at a later time when I get everything down pat.


 One thing I realized was that the lowest white tube would be completely too bright.
NOTHING like what I remember when I played it as a kid.    I popped a portable
florescent bulb in there as a test, and was horrified.

 Then, I decided to try something.   I took 2 semi-translucent plastic blue cups, and put
the same florescent bulb inside them.   I put some blue tarp scrap in the back to keep
light from leaking.  Then put the cup on the coin box,  which is approximately where the
blue bulb would have been.

 BAM! 

 Just about how I remembered it.   

 The blue light illuminates the feild just enough, but not so much as to kill the
blacklight effect.   Also, the display is meant to be dark, and bluish.. as its
supposed to be night time.   

 Im guessing that some revisions of the game were changed.   This could have
been due to the fact that bright light would have made it hard to see things
clearly.   But it also could have been many other reasons too.   Maybe the
middle tube was supposed to have a blue shielding,  but over time, they
deteriorated... or ops tossed them out.

 I will be picking up a real blue light soon,  so as to have the exact color effect
as it was intended.    In the bottom most tube spot,  I have a large blacklight tube.
I will just keep that in there too.

The vid really doesnt do the game justice.   But, at least it shows a working (mostly) game

 Pic appreciated,  just in case I get it wrong.   Tho, do not rush.  I wont be installing it
for a while.

 
 and yes, sadly, I hear the thing fire every once in a while on its own.  But,  there
seems to be a spot on the PCB that if the gun touches, it will fire on its own.  Again, Im
wondering if this is also a problem with the reader head being too think from wear.
I need another person to help me, cause I cant align things, and check the bottom
at the same time.
 

[ninjagun]

WOW! So that's how it's supposed to work. 

And I see you got your "holo" ninjas working. How many relays did you have to clean? Maybe I'll have time to try that with mine tomorrow. 

[Xiaou2]

 As I said, the relays were clean.  Sparkling actually.   It seemed to be a loose
connection on the motor driver pcb board.

 However, its still possible that the motors are failing.  Maybe the
internal brushes are almost gone.

[Xiaou2]

Well, today I went to grad a new blacklight tube.

 Turns out that they make various version of them.   There are the blacklights that
are clear / purple.    And there is a version that looks white, until you turn it on... which
then gives off the UV.   I chose the white one to see if it would work better.

 Well, I had mounted a 24" fixture on the support beam,  and using the new bulb,
it worked pretty darn good.   However, to me,  it still seemed a little too
bright.

 So, I took it out, and popped one of those clear/Blue party lights that you see at the
drugstores into a screw holder.    That looked so much better      I just have to
permanently mount it now.

 Maybe a smaller white/blacklight tube would have looked better than the large 24" one...
but I dont have anything to officially test it with.   Anyway,  AFAIK, they used blue lights
in them, and thats what I will use too 

[ninjagun]

Do you know of any places that might have a clear blue piece of plastic that could be used to put in front of the white tube? I'd rather do something like that instead of add an extra bulb. Or actually,  I think a sheet of blue, maybe even purple, cellophane hanging in front of the white tube would give the desired effect as well.

Colored cellophane samples
http://www.papermart.com/Templates/page.asp?GOCMP=Papermart%5FCampaign+%231+%2D+High+Sales&GOMTC=Phrase&GOKEY=cellophane&PAGE=47-0-10

Xiaou2 , show us how you mount and wire your new blue bulb. Will you power it from the existing wiring?

[Xiaou2]

 Some of those tubes can generate a bit of heat.   It could melt cellophane.  Plus it would be a lot of
work to construct the correct housing, as well as find the needed tint.

 More than likely if you wanted to go that route..  a better choice may be to use a sheet of
semi transparent blue plastic that has good thickness.   Then use a heat gun to bend it..  or
cut it into a box shape, and fix it together with hardware.

  The wiring will be wired to the tubes wires.  The mount will most likely be a simple metal strip.
I will post pics when completed.

[Kevin Mullins]

I haven't tried to fire my machine up in awhile.... but if I remember correctly, the lower white flourescent light was only on while the game was NOT being played. (attract mode if you will)
It turned completely off and the blacklight came on when a game was started. This would give it a darker and more blacklight responsive look to the backdrops and the rest of the scenery. Then half way through a game being played the red light would come on. When the game finished it's timer set both the blacklight and the red light would go out and the lower white light would come back on. (once again back into attract mode so to speak)

The upper white marquee light would remain on at all times I would assume.

Cool video by the way......

[ninjagun]

Hmmm, my game keeps the lower white light on all the time. Maybe there's a timer mechanism that needs to be fixed that keeps that light off during a game. That would mean Xiaou2 doesn't have to add that extra blue light.

[Xiaou2]

 Ok, there may be something wrong with my wiring then.

 Anyways..  I prefer the blue light in addition to the blacklight.     The blacklight
alone does not seem to illuminate the field quite enough.

 Its possible that the single small black light was supposed to be a  'white-blacklight'.
which would light things up brighter.   I dont have one to test it on tho..  and it does
not specify in the game.

 They may have also changed the manufacture process in blacklights too.   Making them
less potent due to health hazards.   Hard to say.

 Kev, I have to ask you for the specific places where the wires for the bottom
fixture is connected - in addition to the top marquee   hehe

 TIA

[Kevin Mullins]

I'll have to run a cord out to my storage building and absolutely double check the lighting sequence on my machine now. Just don't I don't give anyone the wrong information. But I'm almost certain the lower white light turned off when the game started.

Kev, I have to ask you for the specific places where the wires for the bottom
fixture is connected - in addition to the top marquee   hehe

No problem....... I'll try and snag some pics tomorrow for ya.

[Kevin Mullins]

OK... ran out there and took a look at the light fixture wiring on my cabinet. Hope my description will get ya started anyways. (at least enough to compare mine from yours)
And my wiring looked factory soldered onto the terminal tabs, so I'm pretty certain it's all original.

There is a terminal strip mounted in the front of the machine, directly behind the coin mech mounted on the right side of the cabinet.

Starting from the top going down.....
(don't count the mounting screw, just the terminals)

Screw terminal 1 - Blacklight and Lower White light (both share this terminal)
Screw terminal 2 - Blacklight
Screw terminal 3 - Lower white light

The blacklight has grayish wiring.
The lower white light has brown wiring.

Just the fact that they are on separate terminals (aside from the one shared) tells me that the two fixtures operate independently of each other. (i.e different timings)
But I'll still try to get out there and verify this with it running.

Marquee wiring:
See two terminal connection in pic that I attached below.
The marquee light has grayish wiring.

Let me know what you find out on your machine and if this helps.

[Xiaou2]

 Heya Kev,

   Thanks for the Info.  Will check it out soon.

  Tonight I touched up some missing paint on my Marquee.   I think I know why
they removed the marquee light now      The marquee's screen job was very poor.  There
are lots of bubbles where the paint is very thin in certain spots.  When lit, they stick out.

 The correct method would have been to use an airbrush... but all I had was acrylics.. so
I did the best I could do.   Looks fine unlit.  Not so sure about when lit  >.<

 I think I also changed my mind about the blue light too.   I think the fact that my basement
lighting in my shop was causing things to be too bright to see.   I noticed that the blue light
made the yellow background show up to clearly.  And that the game is supposed to be very dark
at first.

 I also finally cleaned the yellow backdrop.  Used some pretty harsh cleaner, but it held up
just fine thankfully.  The material seems to be resistant to liquid..  tho, I didnt use a lot,
as not to push my luck.

 I also grabbed a few more shots of the sunrise.  This time, I bumped up my cameras exposure settings,
and it manages to do a pretty good job at capturing the colors.   Unlike the previous shots were
I had to manually tweak them in photoshop.

[ninjagun]

Kevin, did you ever buy that gun from that guy in Canada? If not, does he still have it? I'd buy it from him, since these things are hard to find. Let me know.

[Kevin Mullins]

No I haven't bought that gun yet.
Had put it off to get through the holidays and to also try and get a chance to check with the local operator that used to own my machine prior to the guy that I got it off of.

And was still juggling the fact that it's a pistol version and not the rifle.

I would assume he still has it...... don't think too many people are looking for one of those.

[ninjagun]

I just received a high quality scan of the Japanese Ninja Gun arcade flyer from someone who bought it on ebay.uk last November. They were kind enough to take the time and scan it for me, so I'll share it with my fellow Ninja Gun owners. 

Copy and paste this link into your browser, or you'll get redirected to the wrong page if you just click the hyperlink.

http://www.sozoryoku.us/images/ninja_gun.rar

And regarding the rifle for this game, it's actually a shotgun. I've been looking at some Remington shotgun stocks online and it looks like they could be used to replace or customize the gun stock used for this game.  This would be good so you can save wear and tear on the original stock, but most are over $60 so ebay might have better deals.

It's funny when you think about it, that your shooting at ninjas with a shotgun.

[quarterback]

You want Rosco or Lee lighting gels which are used in theater and film production.   They're called gels, but they're heat resistant plastic and are used in front of lights that are much hotter than anything in your game.   Sometimes you can find them at photography shops but they're really more of a theater supply item.  Check the yellow pages and make a couple phone calls and I bet you'll find a place that carries them.  You can buy them by the roll or the sheet and there are free swatchbooks that will let you look at all the different colors.

http://www.filmtools.com/leeshpaco5.html#top

http://stagespot.com/gel.html

http://www.rosco.com/us/filters/ecolour.asp

Do you know of any places that might have a clear blue piece of plastic that could be used to put in front of the white tube? I'd rather do something like that instead of add an extra bulb. Or actually,  I think a sheet of blue, maybe even purple, cellophane hanging in front of the white tube would give the desired effect as well.

Colored cellophane samples
http://www.papermart.com/Templates/page.asp?GOCMP=Papermart%5FCampaign+%231+%2D+High+Sales&GOMTC=Phrase&GOKEY=cellophane&PAGE=47-0-10

Xiaou2 , show us how you mount and wire your new blue bulb. Will you power it from the existing wiring?

[Xiaou2]

Heya guys,

 Can you be so kind as to give my video a rating?  Otherwise it falls too far off the list
for others to even find it.

 TIA

[ninjagun]

Ok, I'll go do that right now. 

[ninjagun]

Alright! I finally got all my ninjas doing their proper movement. It wasn't a motor or mechanical issue but a mere cleaning/maintenance issue. And comparing my machine in action to Xiaou2's youtube video, I'd say the action and timing is identical. 

So anyone having trouble with your ninja's motor not working properly or the holographic ninjas not lighting up, this is what to do first: clean your motor relay discs and contacts.  What I used to clean that build-up on the discs was WD-40 sprayed onto a dry cloth, a razor blade to carefully remove what build-up I couldn't wipe off, and a pencil eraser. It seems that keeping these contacts clean should keep the targets running smoothly for a long while.

Here are some pics on where the motor relay discs are and the grime you'll have to remove.





I also noticed that as I was removing the relay contacts to clean the discs, shots would be fired as the contacts touched the discs (no, I didn't have the power off  ). So maybe these contacts could also have something to do with gun firing or trigger issues. I'm not positive though, since I cleaned the discs and still have a firing issue when aiming at the climbing ninja on the right. Sounds similar to the problem Xiaou2 has.

And I still need to figure out why the white tube light at the bottom of the cab stays on until the red light comes on. It's supposed to turn of when you start a game so the black light takes effect, right?

Anyhow, at least the problem of the ninjas not moving/displaying properly is solved.

[ninjagun]

I noticed 4 screws in the top half of the back of my Ninja Gun cabinet. Is there supposed to be something there? Anyone else have these on their cab?

I didn't take a pic of the screws, but here's a pic of the game marquee lit-up, for any visitors to these forums who have never seen this game before.

[ninjagun]

Here's the lowdown on what's going on with my gun firing on it's own when I aim at the climbing ninja on the right. Even if the game isn't being played, but plugged in, I can aim the gun to the right  and it makes a firing sound. 

[Virgil Tracy]

Watching this thread makes me want to add more kasco machines to my collection, keep up the good work.

[ninjagun]

I'm sure we'll do our best. Next on the agenda is looking at the inside of the gun itself to see what the trigger connections look like. They probably need some maintenance too.

[Kevin Mullins]

It's really good to hear that so far most of the problems associated with these machines seems to be just the need for some general maintenance and cleaning. I'm gonna get my machine out and do alot of the same once I get a few other projects out of the way.
 

[Kevin Mullins]

Watching this thread makes me want to add more kasco machines to my collection, keep up the good work.

Does this imply that you have some other Kasco machines already?
I only know of a few that they made.
Of course any EM style game is cool in my opinion, but the Kasco ones seem to be the oddball make to find which to me makes them even more interesting.

[Xiaou2]

 Grr..  Mine has the same problem.   It wasnt doing it when I got it.. as it would only misfire
occasionally.

 Now its also doing what yours is doing..  where it automatically fires when its on the
right side climbing ninja     And not registers firing on that trace.

 Someone else suggested a wire in the gun might be hitting a bare spot, and
causing it to fire in that position.  Yet, somehow I think it may be a bit more than
that alone.

 
 Also, I had already cleaned and buffed all those spots before.. and still the Ninja didnt want
to move... so Im not sure what the deal is with that..  but good to hear your is going now

[Virgil Tracy]

Watching this thread makes me want to add more kasco machines to my collection, keep up the good work.

Does this imply that you have some other Kasco machines already?

Yes I do, on page one of this thread my two are listed a flying duck and air fighter

[ninjagun]

  Now its also doing what yours is doing..  where it automatically fires when its on the
right side climbing ninja     And not registers firing on that trace.

 Someone else suggested a wire in the gun might be hitting a bare spot, and
causing it to fire in that position.  Yet, somehow I think it may be a bit more than
that alone.

I looked at the wiring schematics and followed the black wire on the pin for that trace that is misfiring on the gun stylus board (NG PB 07) to the NG PB 02 board for the wall climbing ninja.

Long-story short, there is a blown relay on the NG PB 02 board that needs to be replaced. To verify, I swapped the NG PB 02 board with the one for the left wall climbing ninja target and can now shoot the ninja on the right wall, but the ninja on the left wall has the misfiring issue. The only ID I found on the relay is that is says OMRON Type LC2 N. I searched and can't find this part online. But maybe there is an alternative relay that can be used.

Here's the culprit that will make you put your soldering skills to the test, once you find and adequate replacement. 



I got to go to bed soon, but I did check the omron website to look for the part. But it seems they don't make it any more. http://components.omron.com/ 

So, I had a good weekend. I pinpointed most of the problems with my Ninja Gun game. Only thing now is to find a replacement relay & figure out why that bottom white tube light doesn't turn off when I start a game. 

[Xiaou2]

Im no good at electronics past a basic connection..  so very nice that you have come to the
same problem as my machine too.

 I always thought that relays were those huge see-thru blocks  such as the ones in the lightbox
on the right side.   Btw - Im suspecting that those are the problems with the main tube lights not
going on/off.   (as I can clearly hear one relay up there make the red light go on/off)

 I surely hope there is something we can use to replace those small relays with.
 
 Please keep us updated.

 

[ninjagun]

You're right, the relays I'm talking about  are those see-through blocks on the NG PB 02 boards.
I took off the clear case from the relay and just barely bent the pin that looked like it was touching the blue conductor inside. So that pin is not touching the blue conductor now, but the misfiring is still happening; it's just that the sound is lower when misfiring now. Shots from actually pulling the trigger during the game are at normal volume.

This is what the relay looks like. The small pin at the base of the blue conductor inside (or whatever that blue thing is called) looks to have shorted or something.

[Virgil Tracy]

What you are  calling the blue conductor is the relay coil that produces a magnetic feild to pull the switch contacts from normally open to normally closed. It would be highly unlikely that you would need to adjust any part of the relay.

A replacement relay would be easy to find if you know the coil voltage.

[ninjagun]

I still haven't found an alternative relay to replace the old one.
 
But I just wanted to ask you guys what the serial number is on the back of your Ninja Gun cabinet. Mine is 343.

[Kevin Mullins]

My cabinet number is 315.

[ninjagun]

Would some one here please tell me what the size of the spring is that goes on the bottom of the gun assembly? The spring on mine has been stretched by the previous owner and I'd like to find a suitable replacement. Don't forget to unhook it before measuring. Also, any ideas where to buy such a spring?

By the way, I've located an electromechanical gun assembly for a game called Top Gun by Midway. Once I get it, I'll see if it can be made to work on a Ninja Gun machine. Here's what the gun looks like. The size of the base-mount is exactly the same as the Kasco rifle.


I also found yet another gun assembly. The base-mount is round instead of square and has a bit smaller footprint. And this is actually a light or photo sensor gun. So it doesn't have the proper wiring, but I think it could be made to replace the rifle on a Ninja Gun machine. All that should really need to be done is have the proper wires connected from the trigger mechanism to the Ninja Gun wire assembly.

[ninjagun]

Just  a few questions for you guys.

How high was your coin counter on your machine when you bought it? Mine was at about 32330 when I got it.

And Xiaou2, what is your highest score so far? I know one of your targets can't be shot (same as mine), but my highest score is 111.

By the way, I still haven't found a replacement for the old relay switch yet. But I did buy a few red light bulbs.

[ninjagun]

 I took apart the Holo-Ninja assemblies to clean, and scan them as well.   

Do you mean you scanned them on your PC scanner? Just curious.

I was thinking of designing some new ninja targets on the PC and printing them out to paste on some thin cardboard so I can interchange them with the original targets. I noticed the targets only have a single screw holding them in place. So it would be interesting to see what can be done to customize the game a little.

I'd like to make some ninjas with more detail and colors in them. Don't they make fluorescent colored ink cartridges for printers?

[Xiaou2]

Yes, a pc scanner.

 Id love to scan all of the artwork.. .however,  Im not sure I have the stomach to
do so.   

 Most of the artwork is stapled down in place.  And I believe the ninjas are
riveted.   Removing them would be a real challenge without damaging them.

 The holo section was easy, because it was a simple plastic section that was
silk-screened with artwork.   I have not scanned the paper ninjas because
of the bolt/rivet issue.

 I do not know of florescent printer inks for home pcs.   Yet, one could possibly
find a sign printer who could do it.   Or, one could use paints and a brush the
old fashioned way.    Personally, I love the original look of the ninjas, (and all the
rest of the art)  and wouldnt change them one bit. 

 Maybe it is because you have not seen your game properly lit up in
blacklight.   The video I posted is nowhere close to the real look... which
is just amazing to see in person.

 Btw - there are only like 5 colors that glow in blacklight... so, I wouldnt expect
that you could do much to the look to improve them.   Unless you are thinking to
make it an all 'daylit'  version... then its completely different story.   And if you
were - send your old art to me instead so I could scan it.

[Xiaou2]

 Heres partial examples.

   There are two sides to each artwork.

 
 On the Hangers... the plastic in orange.   On one side, its screened black and white.   Light
shines from the orange side thru to the white - and creates something like shown on the
right - which I simulated using a lightbox + scanner at same time.

 Yet, on the 'Flipping' Yellow ninjas... it seems to work oppositely.   The light is shown thru the
black/white side,  and the other side had a black boarder screened around the ninjas.
It may be that the color yellow didnt want to show up well enough when done like the
orange... so they did it this way instead.  Not sure really.

 Since Im not about to rip out the actual lights and light them all separately while scanning,
it will not be a perfect replication.  However, the screened art is preserved for the real game
in case replication is needed.

[Kevin Mullins]

I noticed that one fellow Ninja Gun owner has already spotted this auction and asked a question, but I figured I'd post a link.

Pretty cool...... never even heard of this one by Kasco.
I'll probably save all the auction pics for archiving.
And check out the gun itself !

KASCO - F.B.I. Shoot Out Gun

[ninjagun]

I need an opinion from you guys.....

How do you think the look and gameplay of this Ninja Gun would be with a pistol type gun instead of the rifle?

I found a guy that has one and the guts of the assembly seem to match perfectly.... just that it has a pistol instead of a rifle.
He's in Canada, so I can't "try" it out or anything.

After months of merely thinking about it, I'm FINALLY posting some pics of Ninja Gun with the Kasco pistol installed in place of the original rifle. 







It works flawlessly! The only difference in gameplay from the rifle is your stance when aiming. The pistol is all metal except for the handle, or grip, which is plastic.

Another difference is that the wire that connects the pistol to the game has a male connection. On the rifle it is a female connection. So now you have a male-to-male connection. 

Just use some heat-shrink tubing or something similar to keep the 2 ends held together. As long as they make contact, the game will work.

I don't recommend electric tape because it will leave a sticky residue and come undone over time.

[Kevin Mullins]

Awesome !! 

So glad it worked out for you.
I think we were all pretty sure it would, but it's soooo much cooler seeing it in place and fully functional.

So you have both the pistol and the rifle now correct ?

Envious..... I've actually been thinking about dragging my machine out and going through it and getting it operational even without a gun yet. I've been re-arranging alot of my machines and that is still one I would like to have out for show soon. 

[ninjagun]

Yes, I have both the pistol and the rifle.

You really should get your machine out and start cleaning it, etc. This post is a sign that means you need to get some use out of your machine and start enjoying it!  Once you get your game up and running that will be one less thing on your mind.

A few weeks ago I rigged the coin-return button on my Ninja Gun to activate the credit-switch. Now I don't have to open the front panel just to hit the switch and start a game. I didn't change or modify any of the original hardware. I just added a piece of wire that I cut from a wire clothes-hanger and some thread.

And remember, this pistol is yours when you're ready.

 

[fixedpigs]

Another difference is that the wire that connects the pistol to the game has a male connection. On the rifle it is a female connection. So now you have a male-to-male connection.

easy there now...there are kids that read this forum...!

that ninja gun looks bad ass...i hope to have an em game some day...

[ninjagun]

Another difference is that the wire that connects the pistol to the game has a male connection. On the rifle it is a female connection. So now you have a male-to-male connection.

easy there now...there are kids that read this forum...!

Something told me I wouldn't get away with saying that. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Ya know... I think I will go ahead and drag it out and go through my machine. 
Will be nice to see another one of these up and running again.

And I most appreciate that you still hold to your offer on the gun.
Will most definitely follow up with you on it.

And I have found that those male ends fit well inside a butt connector.
Just push one into each end, no need to crimp.
(there.... now your post doesn't sound quite sooo bad)

I think it was the 10 or the 14 gauge connector.
Some brands may fit a bit differently though.




 

[Kevin Mullins]

Well, I finally decide to drag this thing into the house where I could work on it and clean it up nicely. Haven't done much to it but get an idea how extensive it will be.
Besides, my little girl won't let me get into it without her sitting up on the front ledge and watching everything.
Which is cool, because the more I coin it up for her to watch, the more it seems to come back to life.
So basically a good cleaning of all the contact and connectors should do wonders for it.

The only thing that has me concerned is that most of the paper artwork needs cleaned, so I'll have to be careful with that. I wiped a few of the ninjas off with an ever so slightly damped cloth and it seemed to work fine without damage to the art or any kind of warpage.

The worst part is the "ground" art....... please tell me this isn't what I think it is.

[Kevin Mullins]

Quick question for those of you with functional machines ..... is this bulb assembly for like the gunshots or something?
(I haven't look through the manual yet for it)

I just noticed it there, but have never seen it do anything yet.
(of course I can't shoot anything yet either)

[Xiaou2]

 Its a Flasher bulb.   

 When you "Hit"  a ninja,  that bulb will create a very quick and bright flash.

 
 As for the bottom floor,  you may have to put down some paper layers over it.
(or cardstock...etc)

You might be able to paint it... but it you would have to be very good about
masking the other art... as any small dot will show up in the blacklight very
brightly.

 

[Kevin Mullins]

Kinda figured that's what that little bulb unit was.
It'll be neat to see it in action.

Pretty much all of the artwork has many years of warehouse dust and such on it, so I'll probably take a look at removing the entire setup as much as possible. Looks like some of the bigger pieces, like the ground, may be stapled directly to the cabinet though. Once again, just need to look into it deeper.

All in all it's in great shape.
A few extra bumps and bruises from being moved and stored than I would like, but should clean up nicely. There are a few dings on the metal "t-molding" which kinda sucks, but there again shouldn't be too noticeable once cleaned up.

Also have to find a set of locks for it. The only original locks left on it were on the coin box and one of the back doors. And of course I don't have keys for either of them, but they are already open at least.

[Kevin Mullins]

Hmmm... looks like that entire scenery assembly is removable, mechanics and all.
(except the yellow-green bacground color)

That should make working on it much easier, especially the artwork.
I'll have to snap a pic when I get it out.

[Xiaou2]

 Kev,

 Watch my video of the machine in action and you will see the flashes
when the ninjas get hit.

 If you decide to try to remove the staples to any of the colored artwork,
be aware that it may leave a white spot which will glow when black-lit.

 You may have to do some touchup paint afterwards.


 I cleaned mine with some cleaning solution on a lightly damp cloth.   
Worked really well.

 Dont forget, you will have to clean the mirror on both sides, as well as the
front glass inside..   and the "light ninja" assemblies on both sides as well.

[Kevin Mullins]

I'm a stikler on the staples.... when I restored a pinball machine for my step-dad I removed all the paper tags that were stapled to the body and when I put them back on I made sure to put the staples back through the same holes as the originals. Now is that anal or what?

The damp cloth seemed to be working well for me also on the few test spots I did.
So I'll continue to give that a shot as you recommended it as well.

I should be able to clean most of it fairly well without too much disassembly except for the ground piece, but I'll look at that closer when I pull it out to get some ideas together.

All the glass definitely needs cleaned. It's pretty nasty right now and the light ninjas don't show up very well.

Gonna go check out your video now........

[ninjagun]

Alright! Soon another Ninja Gun brought back to life!!!

[pinballwizard79]

ninjas don't use guns

[Xiaou2]

Nope they do not.  Its one of the reasons why they dont do very good against
they player who Has a Rifle.   

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01bxPLnP2bk&eurl=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=73371.40[/youtube]

[SithMaster]

Nope they do not.  Its one of the reasons why they dont do very good against
they player who Has a Rifle.   

I wonder how they do against a pistol.   

This game looks amazing.  Its a shame the ninjas don't throw stars at you or something.  After I read this I checked ebay to see if one was local to me and all I found was a Monster Gun.

[Kevin Mullins]

Browse around for any old Electro Mechanical game ...... I think they are all cool personally. 

Quick question for you current Ninja Gun owners - the "ground" artwork on mine clearly has water damage and I'm getting ready to repair that section..... is yours actually white or is it more of an off white ? (and I don't mean just dirty white, kinda of an eggshell white or something)

I may have to replace the yellow/green colored parts as well, but one section at a time for now.

[ninjagun]

You're right; kind of an off-white/egg-shell white color. Definitely not a "pure" white.

[Kevin Mullins]

A little progress..... found some mattboard at a local Hobby Lobby that seemed fairly close. This particular color i bought was called "Ivory Fiber". I didn't have a piece of the old with me to compare, so I probably could have gotten a little closer. But I think it should look good once it's all back in the cabinet.
One before pic and the rest are after the new ground scenery and some clean up on the whole assembly.
More cleaning yet to come........

[ninjagun]

Looking good! Reminds me that I need to start cleaning out my machine too.

Edit: I just cleaned out my game. I had to remove a rat's nest and droppings, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.  It was actually kinda fun taking out the artwork assembly to clean it! Now I gotta get a new fluorescent tube for the game tomorrow.

[Kevin Mullins]

Kinda plants a bug into ya once you start cleaning on it huh? 
I stayed up until like 2am again cleaning on mine.
(that and my 2yr old was "helping" earlier when I tried to work on it)

Dont forget, you will have to clean the mirror on both sides, as well as the
front glass inside..   and the "light ninja" assemblies on both sides as well.

That ain' t no lie.... mine was really caked with the dust on the mirror faces and the lighted ninjas. It's amazing how bright an brilliant everything looks now.

Cleaning wise all I have left is the top electronics shelf behind the marquee and the outside of the cabinet.

I have noticed my "running" ninjas have a slight issue. They're really a hurky jurky motion versus a smooth running action and that whole assembly is "noisy", kinda growling noise. So I'll have to take a look into that a bit more.
The only other thing I noticed is that my lighted ninjas show for a bit when I first start a game, like I might have knocked something out of time while cleaning the motor wheel or something. Before they only showed up about halfway through a game and when it was in the red light mode.
Everything else seems to be running pretty good though.
All in all aside from those couple minor issues so far everything else other than a couple light bulbs appears to be intact and working.

[Kevin Mullins]

Remember that small flyer pic I found on ebay awhile back???

Here's a better version for those of you who may not have come across one yet.

[Kevin Mullins]

I was just reading back through this thread because I tend to loose track of things already discussed....... and lighting seemed to have a few questions and now that I'm working on mine again I can be more specific as it seems to absolutely unmodified in any way.

Should have:

Marquee - 20w Fluorescent - Sylvania FL20SBL
(Which is NOT a white light, it is actually a "white" blacklight, the ones that produce UV for like aquariums and or plant grow lights)

Bottom tube light - 20w Fluorescent - Sylvania FL20SBL
(Which is NOT a white light, it is actually a "white" blacklight, the ones that produce UV for like aquariums and or plant grow lights)
 
Which explains why Xiaou2 thought his looked tooo bright with the standard white fluorescent light.

Smaller middle fluorescent - 15w Fluorescent - Sylvania Blacklight Blue F15t8/BLB
(this is more of the traditional dark blacklight to really make the fluorescent colors pop out)

Standard base bulb in the floor of the cabinet - Effective Red Lamp AC110v 60w - RED bulb Mine has a truly red bulb, almost painted look to it but from the factory. It's not like the translucent/transparent "party bulbs"....... it's a solid red.
Here's a 130v example which would actually last longer than the standard bulb. (typical an industrial use such as signs, etc.)
http://www.amazon.com/Watt-Light-Bulb-Incandescent-Volt/dp/B000CP3870

All of the "lighted ninja" and "game over" or "replay" lights are 24vDC 5w.
Similar spec bulb found here, but I'm sure I could find a closer match with some more searching around.
24v 5w Globe Bulb BA9s base

I can also tell you that the lighting sequence on mine goes something like this:
Game at Idle - Bottom UV light ON, smaller Blacklight ON
Start game - Bottom UV light ON, smaller Blacklight ON
Halfway through game - smaller Blacklight ON, when RED light bulb comes on the bottom UV light goes out
End of Game - small Blacklight remains ON, RED bulb goes out and bottom UV light comes back on and it's back to the same as Game at Idle

As for the small Blacklight.... it's on all the time, I just mentioned it in each step for clarification.

[Kevin Mullins]

Here are some pics on where the motor relay discs are and the grime you'll have to remove.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?2d15dfe0ba.jpg

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?8b1d6b80f1.jpg

What happened to these pics ?
I looked all over this thread for them and finally realized they had just disappeared.

I need to compare my lighted ninja controller to someone elses and see if my timing is correct on it.
Seems like when I turned the wheel to clean it that it had slipped from the motor.
So I need to see where someone elses is timed at when a game ends.

[ninjagun]

Wow! Thanks for the info on the lights.

I need to replace the white fluorescent lights in my game with the proper "white" black lights. Where could I get these locally? Should I look in the aquarium section at Wal-Mart, or a pet store? 

[ninjagun]

It seems freeimagehosting.net is having problems.

Here is a pic of the timing disc for the lighted ninjas.

[Kevin Mullins]

Thanks for the pic upload..... that's exactly what I needed to see.
And your pic clarified my best guess as to where the disc should be timed.
 

I would think any good pet store would carry them.
They are apparently used on Terrariums as well.
Or a good plant nursery maybe.
I'm sure they could be had through a lighting store, if you have one around that specializes in bulbs and such.

I think they are considered a 24" bulb ...... I measured one of mine and it was 22 3/4" not including the little prongs. So if you include those it would be right close to 24". (adds 1/2" each side)

[ninjagun]

I typed in "FL20SBL" on Google and the only websites with those lights are in Chinese.

[Xiaou2]

 Nice work so far 


 As for the bulb length.. its a very odd size.   Your best plan is to replace the lamp
assembly with a modern width unit.  That is what I did.  The bulbs I found were all
for 24",  and would not quite fit into the smaller factory assembly.

 Sadly, the lamp assembly I choose doesnt seem to want to fire the bulb up all the time.   Make sure to get a good quality lamp assembly.


 I tried the  f20t12-bl   White Blacklight bulb,  and thought it was way too bright.
I then changed it to use a full sized Black Backlight bulb tube... and even that seemed
a little bright.. but much much better.   

 (Im going from Memory of the original machine from when I was 6 or 7 yrs old... as well as my personal artistic viewpoint/opinion of what I remember and or should look like)


 I suppose if you were on-location,  with lots of ambient lighting/sun,  you would
might need the extra light of a  WBL bulb.   This may have prompted a change from
the original design, to a new spec due to complaints.


  I prefer the dark night look.  IMOP The sky should look blackened, not yellow/green (which happens when lit up with White BL bulb).  The blue/green backdrop
art should blend in well,  without standing out too much.  Much like viewing things
at night would be.


 I believe there may have been a few revisions to the machines..  because Ive
seen machines which had blue light blubs in a screw-in socket assemblies.

 
 So, chalk this up to personal opinion...   but I wanted to warn you..   because I
feel Ive wasted $20+ dollars on a bulb that I will never use for this game.

[Kevin Mullins]

Xiaou2 is right ..... the new Sylvania equivalent is this.
Which matches correctly except for the overall length.

I thought the ninja Gun bulbs would be the 24", but I just remeasured everything and sure enough, they won't fit. 
 

The new Sylvania Blacklight BLUE has pretty much the same story. (the new bulbs are too long)
http://ecom.mysylvania.com/sylvaniab2c/b2c/z_login.do

I had the same problem with the fluorescent light on my jukebox, I'll check with the place I got that one from and see what they say.

[Kevin Mullins]

Reset the timing on mine and all seems MUCH better.
Matches both videos on youtube to a tee.
(although Xiaou2's actually works better than that other machine on youtube) 

My orange lighted ninjas only make it half way across the first couple times and then they seem to work fine, so will have to take peek at.
Traced it back to one of the relays on the top shelf behind the marquee. Cleaned them up a bit more and they work fine now.
What it was doing was causing the relay down by the lighted ninja contact wheel on the bottom of the cabinet to cut in and out basically turning them on and off making them start the lighting sequence over again.

[ninjagun]

Since the FL20SBL lights give off ultraviolet rays,do you think over time they could fade the colors of the artwork in the game?

I know the UV rays from the bulb may not be as intense as direct sunlight, but just wondering if the UV rays could affect the art, or even the circuits behind in the marquee, in a damaging way. What do you think?

[Xiaou2]

 UV will fade things over time.   However,  these games are very old, and do not look
too faded.   I dont think the UV levels are high enough to be a cause for concern.

 However, you could use possibly spray a top coat of clear that has UV
protectant over the art if you were really worried about it.


 As for my Video... it was token with 2 blacklight tubes.
(the small and large)

  No white blacklight bulb... as to me,  the white-blacklight bulb was way too bright.

[ninjagun]

I think I'll try a blacklight for the bottom light as well.

And just for the heck of it, how do you think the marquee would look with a blacklight in it?

[Kevin Mullins]

My marquee was missing the original bulb, but since I still had one original working UV type bulb in the bottom section (same fixture) I put it in to see what it would look like compared to a regular "white" bulb. It definitely gave it a different glow versus just being "lit up". It made the graphics pop out better, kinda ominous looking as well.

I also found out why that bulb was missing to begin with I think ..... the starter was bad and they are some sorta screw type instead of the two pronged type you see everywhere nowadays.

[ninjagun]

  As for the bulb length.. its a very odd size.   Your best plan is to replace the lamp
assembly with a modern width unit.  That is what I did.  The bulbs I found were all
for 24",  and would not quite fit into the smaller factory assembly.

 Sadly, the lamp assembly I choose doesnt seem to want to fire the bulb up all the time.   Make sure to get a good quality lamp assembly.

I just discovered that you don't need to replace the original lamp assembly in order to fit the newer 24" bulbs. 

There are 2 screws at both ends of the original lamp assembly.  They are located underneath the assembly next to the sockets for the light bulb. First, remove the innermost screws so you can remove the shielding from the bottom of the assembly, then loosen the remaining screws to adjust the sockets to fit the 24" bulb.

You may have to leave the shielding off the assembly but that's a minor thing compared to replacing the whole assembly.

I discovered this by comparing the top and bottom 20w light assemblies on my game. The top is indeed the original assembly, but it had a 24" bulb in it that fit perfectly. I compared it to the bottom assembly which is also original, but a 24" bulb wouldn't fit correctly in that one. That's when I realized that the top assembly had its bottom shielding removed. I immediately thought, "Yeah! Now I can go buy some 24" black lights!".

[Kevin Mullins]

Good info on the fluorescent fixtures. Will have to check that out for sure.

Wanted to know if any of you had found the "Spare Parts" bag in your machines ?
I found the small brown bag in my machine which had a few spare bulbs, a couple fuses and such with it.
But it was kinda cool because I needed two bulbs, one for the GAME OVER and one for the REPLAY lighting..... guess what.... there they were in the bag.
Nothing like popping in 30 year old spare parts and having them work like new again.

The manual mentions the spare parts kit. Seems like all I was really missing was the Red bulb and the Hex wrench from the list.

The coolest thing I found in the bag were this little row of numbers screen printed on aluminum and it also has a peel and stick type backing. Ironically enough, while cleaning the top electronics shelf behind the marquee I had just noticed that you could adjust the counter and adjust the Replay point in the game. (the manual also verified this and shows how)
Well, guess what these little printed numbers are for.......

Also noted that I had the original coin mech which was another bonus.

[Kevin Mullins]

I don't know if any of my other pics showed where the guy who had this machine in a warehouse went around and 'marked" all of his stuff with spray paint. (I think he shared the space and that's how he could tell what was his or something stupid)
Anyways..... both the glass and the control panel had been marked twice.....once with white paint and then again with yellow paint.
The glass obviously not a problem. Scraped it right off with a razor blade.
The control panel on the other hand is what concerned me as I didn't want to destroy the laminate finish or "dull" it in any way.
What I ended up doing what using some regular furniture polish which would soak in a tad and soften it just a hair at a time. Then I could just ever so gently scrape at it without having to get very aggressive. Did this over and over again for about an hour.
Took some time..... but well worth it. 

[Xiaou2]

 If you take of the metal shield on the lighting assembly... the bulb could easily fall out of
the end holders...  as the end holders are the held in place by the shield assembly.

 If somehow you can squeeze it in there,  and the holders are probably at bad angles... and will be very prone to the bulb slipping out.


 Blacklight tubes are pretty expensive, imagine them falling and breaking into pieces
and getting stuck in assemblies and mariring up the artwork.

 That would be a really stupid thing to risk just because you didnt want to spend 15 min installing the proper fixture.

 Its literally Two wires and two screws to replace the assembly, and takes only a
few minutes of time to accomplish.     
 

[ninjagun]

Xiaou2, I'll post some pictures later of how the readjusted assembly looks without the shielding.

I was in a rush earlier (had to get ready for work) and left out some important details. 

The metal shield is not what keeps the holders in place. There is a metal brace, one at each end, inside the assembly, that keeps the "holders" in place. The light holders are screwed onto the braces. Unscrew the braces from the holders.
You can easily slide these braces back and forth inside the assembly and even remove them if you have to. You can just slide them toward the center of the assembly to give yourself enough room to bring the holders out from under the brace.
You then screw the holders back on top of the brace, not behind it, using the hole in the brace closest to the edge of the light assembly. You'll need at least a 3/4" or 1" screw to attach the holders onto the brace. Adjust the ends of the holders so that they are flush with the outer edges of the light assembly. Now you can install any 24" fluorescent tube. 
 

[ninjagun]

Wanted to know if any of you had found the "Spare Parts" bag in your machines ?
I found the small brown bag in my machine which had a few spare bulbs, a couple fuses and such with it.

No, I haven't found any spare-parts bag in my machine. Where did you find it? In the marquee section?
Luckily though, I found someone selling a Ninja Gun machine for parts last week and bought it (no gun however). So that should make up for it.

And about adjusting the replay points; I did know about that. I have mine set at 20 points.

I didn't know you could adjust the counter though. How long can you actually set the game to play for?

[Kevin Mullins]

I found the spare parts bag in the bottom of the cabinet along with the manual. (which is missing a couple pages)

I believe the only thing adjustable is the replay trigger "counter" .... not the game play length. Maybe I mis-worded something in my description.

But definitely looking forwarded to seeing the details on the newest addition to the Ninja Gun collection.
 

[ninjagun]

But definitely looking forwarded to seeing the details on the newest addition to the Ninja Gun collection.
 

Actually, it's in really bad shape. It's missing the front access panel as well as both back panels. It has no power cord or gun, and some of the artwork inside is torn, possibly missing. It's also missing the all the metal trim. I'll fix what I can on it.  But I mainly got it for using the hardware inside as spare parts for my main Ninja Gun. Maybe I can finally get that wall-climbing ninja target to work properly.

[Kevin Mullins]

Well, it sounds like you have a spare parts machine at least. (wouldn't even think of using a complete machine just for parts) And seeing how hard it would be to find extra motors and whatnot for these... then it a good thing.

Finally got my "running ninjas" to "run". Pulled the sprocket and chain assembly off and unbolted the motor and was able to use some light 3in1 oil to lubricate the motor shaft while it was running. If you've ever touched the chains on these machines you have probably noticed how thick the oil feels, almost tacky/gummy. Oiling the motor and chain really brought out some junk and freed it up nicely to where the motor wouldn't strain and the little ninjas could run again.
Which by the way is apparently what the tiny allen wrench in the spare parts kit might have been for. The hex screws that lock the sprockets onto the motor shafts are TINY.

Probably should do the same to all the motors and chains, but the others a re a bit more difficult to get at. (not horribly, but enough) Will probably try to find a way to do it without complete disassembly.

One thing I HIGHLY recommend is noting or better yet taking a picture of the ninja positions and especially the contact wheel positions BEFORE removing anything.
These machine are definitely based on timing..... and getting one of those contact wheels off really throws the whole thing off. I've learn that each contact wheel really does some multi-tasking and can effect the timing of any number of other parts.

Which also made me wonder if some of ya'lls left climbing ninja targeting issues may be timing related. Since the guns are not optical or anything it is solely based on gun position and ninja position matching. (i.e also timing) So maybe even though your gun is positioned pointing at the left ninja, the game doesn't recognize that the ninja is actually there at the same time. Might be related to one of the contact wheels. Of course with me not having a gun yet I can't test this theory out fully.

[Xiaou2]

 You can use  Radio Shack's  Component cleaner to remove the gunk on the chains without
removing them from the spockets.   

 The stuff is really amazing at eating grease/gunk..etc.   Ive cleaned  trackball and  filthy dirt impacted rollerblade bearing with it... and they spun like brand new afterwards. 
(actually, spun better than new.  Longer spin time)

 It should come with a hard bristle brush extension.  If not, you could always use a
med to hard bristle toothbrush.  (probably better, cause more surface area will make
cleaning easier and faster)
 
 Be careful when cleaning though... as splattered spay could get on the artwork.  You
should cover all surrounding art with towels or something.

 
 Component cleaner has a bit of lubrication on its own.  However, Id suggest some
light  3-in-1  oil  after cleaning the chains.


 Also, remember that these motors are quite old.  Its very possible that the brushes
are worn down to almost the bare contact wires.   I know some people do rebuild
motors.   You might even be able to cut down a larger brush as well.

 My friends  Race Drivin  had brushes worn too far.   Cleaning the carbon soot
off the motor contacts really helped to eliminate the intermittent force feedback.
(jumpy - like the ninjas)    However, new brushes were the real savior.

[ninjagun]

.....made me wonder if some of ya'lls left climbing ninja targeting issues may be timing related. Since the guns are not optical or anything it is solely based on gun position and ninja position matching. (i.e also timing) So maybe even though your gun is positioned pointing at the left ninja, the game doesn't recognize that the ninja is actually there at the same time. Might be related to one of the contact wheels. Of course with me not having a gun yet I can't test this theory out fully.

The climbing ninja issue has been narrowed down the the circuit board for that ninja target. And as I said in a previous post, it looks like a bad relay on that board is causing the problem.

Both circuit boards for the wall climbing ninjas are the same. So I've swapped the boards, and whichever ninja target is running off the "bad" circuit board just won't register as being hit when you shoot it. The motors seem to run perfectly and I'd say the timing is accurate. Mine plays just like Xiaou2's video.

Hopefully that spare parts Ninja Gun has a good circuit board I can use. It should arrive next week sometime.

[ninjagun]

I bought two black lights today. Wal Mart sells them for $9.84

I tried one in the marquee. Not good. Too dark.

I put the other one in the bottom light fixture and it's okay, but still a little too dark. And you can't really appreciate the artwork with a black light on all the time.

At least we know the white black light is the original way this game is supposed to be played. But it's hard to find a white black light locally. I went to Pets Mart, and a local aquarium store but they don't carry them. 

Kevin, could you show me some pics of how the marquee and artwork look with the white black light?

[Kevin Mullins]

Kevin, could you show me some pics of how the marquee and artwork look with the white black light?

Yeah, a standard blacklight would seem to be too dark to me as well.
Which is why I believed they used the UV "white" blacklights, it doesn't wash it out by being too bright and also still helps with the fluorescent effects a bit.

I plan on taking a short video of mine working here shortly for more comparison amongst our machines and also some decent pictures once I get the chance to. I'll probably slide the front glass out so there's no glare and such for the video.

[Xiaou2]

 Under what conditions are you trying to play your machine?

 If your room lighting is too bright... then sure.. you will have trouble seeing.


 Also..  are you using the newer thin blacklight tube?   or the older 1"+ diameter?

 As the thinner bulbs let out a lot less light than the older bulbs. (less surface area)

 
 As stated before... there is no telling if the spec listed on the manual is
universal to all machines.    Ive seen one machine that used a standard screw in
bulb fixture that looked 100% factory.   

 Also, as stated, I vividly recall the game being dimly lit.   Imop,  there is no way that the
sky should look bright at night... which is what happens when you use a white
blacklight bulb.   

 I say, Turn out all the lights, and enjoy the black light goodness.   Arcades back in
the day were dark,  partly for that reason.   Most all were black light driven.


 As an Artist, I can tell what the artwork is representing.   Its using dark colors, such
as the trees in the foreground being deep dark blue.   That represents moonlight lighting.   The blue/green walls also note that its dark out..  or they would be grey. 

 You can light your machine any way you want.. but believe me... the Artist who
designed these surely would cringe seeing it lit in a way that does not represent
its original design.


 Btw - you may want to try one of those blue party lights instead of the wblb.
It would give a little more brightness,  without being too bright and yellowing
the skies.

[Kevin Mullins]

We turned out all the lights to try and take these pics, but the camera just can't capture it correctly. But maybe it'll give an idea until I can shoot a quick video.

Pic 01:
UV WBL behind marquee - The purple graphics really pop out great but can't really be seen in the pic.

Pic02:
Game lighting at idle and during first half of game. Small blue blacklight on and bottom UV white blacklight. (ninjas do glow when they start moving about)

Pic03:
Halfway through game - Red light on, bottm UV white blacklight off, small blue blacklight still on. (some ninjas showing this time)

These pics really don't do it justice, so maybe I'll try a different camera later as well as a video. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Can be seen in the marquee picture, but I just noticed my machine has starting showing 1 point automatically when I turn it on. (used to be zero like it should be)
 

[ninjagun]

Well, mine does that too so welcome to the club.

Thanks for the pics. Try the balance or white light adjustments on your camera and see if that makes the colors more accurate. I found that helps with my digital camera; and it's an older model 2 pixel.

[ninjagun]

 Under what conditions are you trying to play your machine?

 If your room lighting is too bright... then sure.. you will have trouble seeing.

 Also..  are you using the newer thin blacklight tube?   or the older 1"+ diameter?

 Also, as stated, I vividly recall the game being dimly lit.   Imop,  there is no way that the
sky should look bright at night... which is what happens when you use a white
blacklight bulb.   

I'm playing my machine with the lights off and I'm using the 1" diameter tube. I don't have trouble seeing the targets. It's just that I think the black light takes away the color from the artwork and doesn't let you appreciate it as well.

A black light tube does seem a bit too dark, but I'll leave it in until I find a white black-light. As we all agree, a normal white fluorescent tube is just way too bright to use. When playing the game in total darkness, even a white tube in the marquee seems too bright. It contrasts with the black light in the bottom and it's kind of annoying, but not too much. Kind of like trying to watch TV and having a lamp turned on, on top of it.

If you take a look at the Ninja Gun game pictured on the Ninja Gun flyer, you can see that the lighting of the game is such that you can see a yellow background and the light blue of the fortress wall. I'd say that suggests the original lighting for the game.

I know the sky wouldn't look bright at night, but it also wouldn't turn red all of a sudden. Maybe Kasco intended the game to simulate sundown (or afternoon), night, and sunrise. I did some Googling and the sky can appear red at sunrise or sundown so that could explain why Kasco used the red light. Just speculation of course.

Compared to other EM games that used black lights by Chicago Coin, Midway, etc., one would think that Ninja Gun is supposed to be as darkly lit as those games. But Ninja Gun does use 3 different lighting modes during game play. So I would think each mode is intended to be distinct.

[Xiaou2]

 The colors in the artwork are nice...  However, there is no doubt that they are
made to simulate night time.   You can tell by the palette of mostly greenish blues.
You can also see that the temple top is blue green.. where as many temple tops
are painted bright colors with spots of reds.   The greenery is not bright greens.. its
still bland bluegreens.      Yet the door is painted brown...  Why?   Because its in the
shadow where the moonlight does not hit it.


 I believe the yellow was there in the backdrop for two reasons.  1)  To give the
sunrise a much better look.  2)  To give the flash bulbs effect more pop. (when you hit a
ninja and the flash bulb goes off,  it makes the sky lighten up for a split second)


 And yes,  All of the other BL  games are very dark in nature.   While Ngun is
different... I believe,  as Ive said,  that there were some executive desigions made
to change the lighting.    Remember that this game may be one of the last few of the
EM gun games.   Its one if not the only one, that had both EM and actual
electronic component circuitboards.     

 At that state in time... Arcades may have already started to see "video" CRT games.
Arcades lighting may have changed to be a little more bright than the typical
penny arcade.   As such, extra lighting was needed to compensate for brighter
rooms... and complaints by Ops who's customers couldnt see the game well at all
in such conditions.

 
  I can tell you that no sky is yellow at night.... and if the sky was yellow.. the artwork
would reflect a much different palette with very vivid colors instead of the bland
ones you see.

 And as said,  I have seen at least one machine that used a different lighting scheme
that looked old and factory... so,  its very plausable that things were changed from
the original designers intentions.


 If you like a Yellow sky during play... then thats your business.  I personally think it
looks like Crap like that...   and do not believe any good artist would have intended
that.

[Xiaou2]

 Well, I fired up a few games today.   

  WOOT!!!   The Non-Working Ninja is working again!!!

  I played a few full games... and all was fine... until...   I got a Replay!

 Well,  it so happened that after getting the replay light on... a few more
points and it went out.   Very odd.   Tried a few more times, and same thing...

 So,  I then stopped at 80pts... waited for game to end, and pressed the
replay button.

 Fired up a free game..  however,  after only a few points... it popped the
replay light on again.    Mid game,  I pressed the replay button.. and it went
out, while wiping my score away.   But then it came back on soon after.

 Seems like the Relay that controls the Replay is acting up now. 

 Ahh well..  at least the  Ninjas all work now 

 
 You know, I did notice that the lighting is a bit dark... so I can understand wanting
to brighten it up.   I just think the WBL is way too much.   I think I will stick to using a
blue party light,  with a slightly darkened shield to darken it down even a little further.

 I did notice that the blue light, mounted near the small black light tube,  helped to
illuminate the forground trees a little more.   Gota experiment with different
lighting brightness and mounting placements...

[ninjagun]

You should check the dials on the replay score counter. They may not be sitting properly. For instance, maybe the dial for the 8 or zero is just set a little above or below its center point. 

Now that all your ninja targets are working, could you make us a new video? 

[Kevin Mullins]

 

[ninjagun]

[Kevin Mullins]

Well,decided to try and shoot a couple quick videos of my machine running while our 2yr old napped...... needless to say they are not that great. I tried darkening the surrounding lighting in order to capture the full effect of the games lighting, but all that did was make it hard for my camera to capture any good detailed footage. (aperture lighting and all that good rot) And of course my machine does not have a gun, so it's just a show of the ninja and lighting mechanics really. They are all kinda boring without any sounds and shooting action going on. Also note that these videos don't do this machine justice at all.
 
It's really hard to describe the way things really look in person, the scenery, the figures, the lighting, it's all definitely part of a well thought out design overall. Even the progressive game play which we haven't really talked about. It's starts off slow and mild and adds more and more ninjas as you go, then when the light turns red it gets even more complicated.

Anyways, the main video clip is of the machine with it's own lighting, the second with a camera light on, the third is some from the back showing the insides running a little and the last one is.... well .... I just got bored let's say.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrVP8_E1EDs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ctp2kgfeYM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqMtcIP2wzo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU6Vz8e-HqE[/youtube]

[ninjagun]

Thanks for the videos, Kevin! 

I noticed that you need to adjust the metal dividers that are in between the lighted rope-ninja targets. Correct placement of those metal plates should be between each image of the lighted ninjas. No part of the metal plate should be on top of them. These metal plates keep the light focused on each individual image of the ninja target.

[Xiaou2]

Actually, it might be more than just alignment.  Sometimes the divider assembly lifts up
a few mm... and you have to bend it down.

 The reason why Ninjagun posted this... is cause when a hanging ninja is
lit.. you can see part of the other ninja next to him lit..  cause the light is
seeping to the next area.
 

[Kevin Mullins]

It's funny you guys both noticed this..... it's one of the key things I needed to look into further after noticing it when I was doing all the cleaning.
When I cleaned the jumping ninja section I actually removed all the dividers to clean the silk screened area and noticed all the dividers perfectly split each figure. But with the swinging ninja I was able to slide the piece with the images on it out and clean it easily, so the dividers didn't have to get removed. Basically all of those are right where they were when I got it. When I was putting it all back together I noticed that those for the swinging ninja didn't divide the characters very well at all, some are not even close enough to bend into place. not sure why either. Thought maybe it was intentional to give a more fluid effect to the animation by having just a tid bit of the next one showing while it progressed through the sequence quickly. But the more I watch it, the more I see it. Guess I'll pull all the dividers and see what kind of arranging and tweaking I can do to them.
And the bleedout or "glow" effect from the dividers being a little off the screen is something I spotted right off and was going to address that when I addressed the other issue. Really didn't notice it much until I cleaned all the glass and character screens, then it stood out like a sore thumb.
Didn't have any of these issues whatsoever with the jumping ninja. Go figure.

[Xiaou2]

 Well,  if I recall,   the dividers are thin aluminum.   They can bend pretty easily.
Its very possible that the factory did not have time to adjust them all 100%...
or simply forgot one here or there.

 Mine was also a bit off.   I noticed it when I went to clean it up.   After fixing
it,  it looks so much better now.

[ninjagun]

In the third video at 1:32 you can see the dividers for the 3rd ninja from the left and 4th ninja from the right definitely need to be straightened.

I've checked my machine and the dividers are screwed into a slot in the board. That slot is at the proper straight angle for each divider. Simply straightening out the dividers following that angle should bring them to their proper position.

I had to bend some of them to the proper position when I got my machine and virtually each one is exactly straight. Maybe just one may need a very slight bend to keep it between ninja targets.

[Kevin Mullins]

Definitely gonna have to take a second look at it.
I grabbed a quick pic when I had it apart during cleaning, kinda blurry but should give an idea of what I was describing as "not even close".
The red arrow is pointing to where the one is actually touching part of the framework causing the bend. The green arrows point two a couple that clearly show that even if straightened wouldn't split the images correctly.
I'll probably pull all the dividers on that section and start one at a time and see what I can get out of it.

[ninjagun]

Hey, Kev, your ninjas are reversed! You've got him swinging backwards.

I thought something looked "different". Is that the way they were when you got the game?

Flip the artwork for these ninja targets and it should be easy to align the dividers. 

[Kevin Mullins]

 
Seriously?

That's the one all I did was unscrew it, slid the graphics part out, cleaned it and slid it back together.

So does the colored side or the white side go against the bulb assemblies on your guys' machines?

Both the jumping ninja and the swinging ninja on mine had the white side against the bulbs.
(colored side facing inward towards the mirror)

Also just noticed while looking at some of my pics that if some of the bulbs sockets and dividers were slightly rearranged, or switched, then they would fit better with the bulbs being directly over the image and the dividers actually dividing the images better.
(make any sense) But I know the dividers on the other scene had slots in the wood where they set and I don't think the bulb sockets did, so it shouldn't be possible that they are mis-arranged.
Also because the one that the bend in it from being up against the frame work just doesn't seem like the craftsmanship style you see elsewhere on these machines.
Gonna have to look at the machine itself again for further investigation otherwise I'm just speculating.

Here's a little better pic of that section set in place in my machine.

[ninjagun]

The orange-color side goes against the bulbs.

With the back-flipping ninja, the white side is against the bulbs.

[Kevin Mullins]

Hmmmm ..... very interesting.

Wonder if Xiaou2's is the same as yours or mine?

Guess I shouldn't re-arrange any dividers and such until I take a look at the "backwards" situation.
But I know for a fact that mine came with the white side against the bulbs.
(heck, it's the one staring you in the face as soon as you open the back up)

[ninjagun]

His is the same as mine. So there should be no doubt.

See his post on page 2 of this thread. It's the 2nd post from the bottom. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Ah yes .... and he had a pic of his swinging ninjas in action up a bit further from that and also I checked out his video again..... and sure enough, that might make a huge difference if I flip that piece around. That would totally change where the dividers fall and would also help with some of the bleedover as well.
 

[Kevin Mullins]

ninjas don't use guns

Nope they do not.  Its one of the reasons why they dont do very good against
they player who Has a Rifle.

Saw this as a T-shirt and chuckled when I thought about this thread.

[ninjagun]

Nice shirt!

By the way,  did you correct your backwards ninjas?

[Kevin Mullins]

Yeah .... I got the swinging ninjas turned around.

Wow, what a difference.

Just barely had to tweak the dividers to get them to split the images. Much different from before when they weren't even close. (makes sense now)
And the images are much clearer now because both the bulbs and dividers are lined up correctly with the images.
Still have an ever so slight bit of bleedover coming from under the dividers. Was able to tweak most if it out, but there are a couple that just won't cooperate quite enough. (will play with it some more of course)

Tried to get a couple pics, but they turned out poorly.

[ataritoobin]

I realize this is an old thread, but it also happens to be one of the most comprehensive sources of Ninja Gun information on the net.

Curious if anyone has some good pics of the upper Glass/Marquee retainer? Seems as though it's made out of wood with an aluminum face.

Curious of the dimensions and how it attaches as mine is missing - thanks!

[CaptainNeo]

I just joined the Ninja Gun club yesterday.      Does anyone have a picture on how the control disc in the bottom right corner is suppose to be aligned?  I took mine off to clean it.  didn't realize it wasn't keyed and there isn't anything in the manual I have that says what the starting point is suppose to be at, in conjunction with the micro switch cam.

[CaptainNeo]

I wanted to add some pictures of mine.  Finally got everything working correctly, thou, one of my wall climbers runs backwards sometimes.   Not sure why, but it's something on one of the boards.  When i swapped PB 02 to the other side. the problem followed it, so I know its' board related.  Would like to upload some pics, but don't know how on this site.

[gloogun]

This is an old thread, but a good one. Lot's of great info

I am planning on running a reproduction set for the interior artwork and targets. I've started an interest thread here with details:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=450077

Let me know if you need a set!