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Fozzy The Bear:

--- Quote from: demaximis on January 12, 2008, 11:43:14 am ---Sixty days is generally a long time to allow a merchant to deliver goods and services, and most should.
--- End quote ---

A genuinely honest merchant, shouldn't charge your credit card at all, until they actually have goods to ship to you and are actually sending them out of the door. It's not the customers responsibility to bolster up the cashflow of the merchant. If they don't have the goods to sell to you then they don't have a business! At the end of the day, if there is any delay for any reason, or they go over the time they have quoted for producing a custom built item, then that should be at the cost of the merchant not the customer.

Look at it this way, you wouldn't walk into a high street store and say:

Customer: "I'd like that TV set please, Here's a credit card payment for it."
Salesman: "Thank you sir, I'll just take the $650 from your credit card"
Customer: "OK I'll go get my car to put it in"
Salesman: "Oh! ermmm Sorry Sir!.... We don't actually have a TV Set for you, The supplier is waiting for some parts so they can build them and their supplier is out of stock we're expecting them in next month, but we're keeping your money anyway"

NO NO NO!!! This never happens.... you'd take your card to another store down the road that DOES have TV Sets in stock. Why should you treat the internet any differently to the way you treat the high street. For your own protection, you shouldn't.

The safest way to order on line is to ALWAYS! add a note to your order stating that your credit card is NOT to be charged until the day that the goods ship. If they still then charge your card without shipping the goods, you can immediately dispute it with your bank, as a fraudulent transaction. 60 Day limit or not!

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
fixedpigs:
fozzy...as much as i agree with you on most things regarding slikstik and all of christian's buffoonery...i have to point out something very important in the case of custom work...

anything custom should require a deposit of some kind before anything is done...this protects the seller to a point in case the buyer flakes out on the custom order...all of the work that goes into making something specific to one person would be very difficult to sell to someone else who might not like what the original buyer wanted...

usually a deposit to cover most of the cost would be all that is necessary to allow the seller to be able to sell the now abandoned custom order to someone else at a discount and still make some money for their labour...

i have no problem with merchants requiring deposits on custom work and special orders for this reason...

a television set is not a custom product and so your comparison doesn't really work too well...

i definitely think that slikstick is a bit shady(one of many obvious reasons) for requiring full payment on their panels well before they are completed...

 :cheers:


--- Quote from: Fozzy The Bear on January 13, 2008, 04:56:03 am ---
--- Quote from: demaximis on January 12, 2008, 11:43:14 am ---Sixty days is generally a long time to allow a merchant to deliver goods and services, and most should.
--- End quote ---

A genuinely honest merchant, shouldn't charge your credit card at all, until they actually have goods to ship to you and are actually sending them out of the door. It's not the customers responsibility to bolster up the cashflow of the merchant. If they don't have the goods to sell to you then they don't have a business! At the end of the day, if there is any delay for any reason, or they go over the time they have quoted for producing a custom built item, then that should be at the cost of the merchant not the customer.

Look at it this way, you wouldn't walk into a high street store and say:

Customer: "I'd like that TV set please, Here's a credit card payment for it."
Salesman: "Thank you sir, I'll just take the $650 from your credit card"
Customer: "OK I'll go get my car to put it in"
Salesman: "Oh! ermmm Sorry Sir!.... We don't actually have a TV Set for you, The supplier is waiting for some parts so they can build them and their supplier is out of stock we're expecting them in next month, but we're keeping your money anyway"

NO NO NO!!! This never happens.... you'd take your card to another store down the road that DOES have TV Sets in stock. Why should you treat the internet any differently to the way you treat the high street. For your own protection, you shouldn't.

The safest way to order on line is to ALWAYS! add a note to your order stating that your credit card is NOT to be charged until the day that the goods ship. If they still then charge your card without shipping the goods, you can immediately dispute it with your bank, as a fraudulent transaction. 60 Day limit or not!

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

--- End quote ---
Fozzy The Bear:

--- Quote from: fixedpigs on January 13, 2008, 10:10:10 am ---usually a deposit to cover most of the cost would be all that is necessary to allow the seller to be able to sell the now abandoned custom order to someone else at a discount and still make some money for their labour
--- End quote ---

Yes I see your point..... However, Christian was taking thousands in full payments and in many cases still hasn't shipped the goods. Due to his dishonesty The only people here with losses are the customers.

If he had a percentage deposit on custom items then that's a different matter, Many of his items were not custom sales at all, but stock item options. The only thing custom being with layout on some of the panels. Potential loss being only the MDF panel top and the labour cutting it. When you take that into account, he stood to lose nothing.

So I think it really does apply here.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
demaximis:

--- Quote from: Fozzy The Bear on January 13, 2008, 04:56:03 am ---A genuinely honest merchant, shouldn't charge your credit card at all, until they actually have goods to ship to you and are actually sending them out of the door.
--- End quote ---

I think you are probably being a little too draconian in your definition of "honest."  There has to be SOME element of faith in a transaction (on both sides), and I hesitate to call a merchant's honesty into question if I am charged for an item before it is shipped, but I receive the item in the agreed upon time-frame, and the item is in good condition (whether custom or not).  The entire economy of Ebay is based on this process (pay first/ship after), and there are plenty of honest merchants that utilize this service.  I recognize that your response was colored by your feelings about SlikStik (and as I have PERSONALLY experienced trying to consummate a transaction, I share your frustrations), but you have to judge each vendor's "honesty" on his or her ability to fulfill the basic elements of the transaction.  The fact remains that there is always an element of risk involved in arms-length transactions.  Fortunately, there are methods for both buyers and sellers to protect themselves.  That was the point of the post -- not to question what payment practices makes a merchant "honest."  And frankly, I'm not sure whether those practices are relevant to the issue of honesty, as long as both parties get what they bargained for.
ArcadEd:
Deleted.
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