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| ATWindsor:
--- Quote from: FrizzleFried on January 10, 2008, 07:45:49 pm --- --- Quote from: Mameroom on January 10, 2008, 07:36:46 pm --- I do not "Back" christian. I am taking "His" money. --- End quote --- NO! You are taking the money of folks who paid for panels they didn't get! And to do so is DISHONEST. An HONEST man wouldn't do such a thing. --- End quote --- Thats like saying that grocery store is talking the money from the people here, becuase they let Christian buy bread there. The responsibility for taking peoples money is Christians. You have been very clear that Christian have the repsonsibility for this, not the people of the forum, and I agree witht that, but the people buying from him are not "talking peoples money" either, just as little as people in here are "talking peoples money". I would also like to point at that an action can be a contributing cause, without the person(s) taking that action beeing the repsonsible and/or to blame. Lets for arguments sake say it's true that Cristian honors less orders if people in here complain, then the complaining can be a contributing cause, however it's still Christian that is to blame and has the responsibility for beeing so unprofessional. Maybe that was what Scott was trying to convey? Who knows, if so he has not worded himself in a very good matter, so I don't agree with a lot of his posts here. But it has understandingly been a lot of feelings involved here, and quite a lot of posts have come through in a way that might not have been the posters intentions. Quite a few posts here give the impression that the poster is only gloating about silkstik shafting consumers and going down, though i doubt that was the posters feelings. Personally I feel Scott has gotten a lot of grief for beeing vocal in this thread, even though I don't agree with him, and a few of his posts are quite angry. I have full understanding for people wanting to boycott everyone buying from Christian, but I would urge people who just want to boycott Mameroom to at least look at Scotts other posts in the forum, and see if his actions in this thread are a one-time thing, clouded by feelings, or a general trend, and then make your descision. Personally I'm trying to not judge peole from the things said in this thread becuase of the amouunt of feelings and money involved, that can make people from all sides say and/or do things that in retrospect was not wise. I don't know if this even is interesting for people, or if a lurkers word carry much weight, but I felt like giving my view after following this thread for quite som time. BTW I wan't to thank people for this thread, I was myself looking into ordering a panel when I found the thread. |
| Zakk:
--- Quote from: ATWindsor on January 12, 2008, 04:30:24 am ---I don't know if this even is interesting for people, or if a lurkers word carry much weight, but I felt like giving my view after following this thread for quite som time. BTW I wan't to thank people for this thread, I was myself looking into ordering a panel when I found the thread. --- End quote --- We were all lurkers once... Still...how does it feel to know, that if you had stumbled on slikstiks "still functioning" website, and fired off a paypal payment for $1000 or so, that they would have accepted the money and given you nothing but the justification that fozzy made them mad?? THAT is what we are trying to ensure doesn't happen, nevermind gloating. In fact, there's nothing to gloat over, since stango has publicly stated that he is taking his ill gotten goods and using it to bolster his new company. Nothing AT ALL to gloat over. I'm just curious how forgiving or tolerant you would have been if you had found this AFTER you had lost your money. |
| demaximis:
--- Quote from: pmanili on January 11, 2008, 08:59:28 pm ---One thing I still don't understand is why didn't those who never received their panels from SlikStik reverse the charges on their CC? After almost three months of waiting, I just contacted my CC company and got my money back. I'm just curious, it seems so easy. --- End quote --- I believe that the answer to your question is that many purchasers did not initiate chargeback proceedings in the appropriate time period allotted under the Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA), which governs chargebacks. Under the FCBA, a chargeback must be filed, in writing, within 60 days of the date of the statement listing the questioned charge (NOT 60 days from the purchase date, unless the two dates are the same). Some banks, as a courtesy to their customers, will extend the period beyond 60 days in extenuating circumstances, but that is usually only in the case that the bank believes it can recover the funds (which is probably not the case here). I was not going to post in this thread again, as I was able to successfully recover the funds I "lent" to Slikstik for a spinner that didn't ship after 30 days of ordering, but I thought it made sense to remind everyone reading this thread that there are ways to protect yourself when purchasing items online -- there are plenty of other Slikstiks out there, and while this thread has done a great job of warning prospective purchasers about the real risks involved with ordering from THAT company, it never hurts for all of us to remember that anytime we do business online, we are usually dealing with strangers. So, a few tips: 1) Credit Cards. If you can pay with a credit card, do so. In my experience, those banks which do the best by their customers when dealing with disputes are American Express, followed by Mastercard. Visa is third, and Discover comes in dead last. If you are dealing with Discover, make sure that you document everything - in writing - as they will usually default to the letter of the law. Nothing says they can't do this, but be on your guard if that is your card of choice. Credit cards backed up by local banks and credit unions are also pretty good about protecting their members, but YMMV depending on the bank and your relationship (a large account there may help persuade the bank to rule in your favor in the event of a close dispute). 2) Paypal. Paypal inserts itself between the payor and the payee, directing funds from your bank (worst option) or your credit card (best), and slaps fees on top of the process. If you are going to use Paypal, if you can, ALWAYS change the default payment option to a credit card. Otherwise, your funds are IMMEDIATELY deducted from your account, and you lose the protections of the FCBA, and are left only with Paypal's dispute process, which you agreed to be bound by when you opened your account. This process is not as consumer-friendly as the FCPA, and you have little recourse to appeal any decision. If you use Paypal, but use your credit card, you can utilize both processes to pressure the merchant, and you can still initiate a chargeback with your credit company. ** A little note about chargebacks -- they are extremely punitive on the merchant. There is a fee associated with them (charged to the merchant - sometimes as much as $50 per transaction) by the credit card companies, and multiple chargebacks can lead to suspension or revocation of charge privileges. Multiple chargebacks can have the effect of sending a teetering company over the edge because of the fees involved and the loss of banking services. 3) Timing. What happened to many folks in the Slikstik debacle is that they were persuaded to keep on waiting for their panels/parts without challenging the transaction when they had a chance to recover their funds. Sixty days is generally a long time to allow a merchant to deliver goods and services, and most should. In certain circumstances, there may be a perfectly valid reason why goods/services haven't been delivered in the 60 day time frame, but at that point, the burden should shift. NEVER hesitate to intiate a chargeback in these situations. You can communicate to the vendor that you have done so to protect your interests, and you can always withdraw the dispute. What you CAN'T do is initiate the dispute after the deadline (unless the bank is lenient as above). A merchant with good intentions should understand your concern, and should work to either deliver the goods on time, provide a refund for the initial purchase and allow you to "re-charge" to restart the clock, or - best case - agree to charge you upon shipment. I know this doesn't get anyone their panels or equipment, and for that I'm sorry. But, maybe it will make someone a smarter consumer for the "next time." |
| CheffoJeffo:
:applaud: :cheers: :applaud: |
| MaximRecoil:
--- Quote from: Mameroom on January 11, 2008, 09:04:08 am ---Scott Glazer from Mameroom publicly states: "PEOPLE OF BYOAC...YOU, AND YOU ALONE HAVE A CHOICE ON HOW THIS ENDS. ALL CUSTOMERS WILL RECEIVE THEIR PRODUCTS...IF AND ONLY IF YOU REMAIN SILENT AGAINST CHRIS".... ...wow, a bold (but factually accurate) statement...what do you do? --- End quote --- No, that is not a "factually accurate" statement. You have no evidence that Christian would have fulfilled his obligations even if Fozzy had built a golden statue in his image and sacrificed a lamb at its feet. So, "The People of BYOAC" had no choice in how it ended, only Christian had that choice. There are a few problems with your proclamation here, and these problems reflect negatively on you: - You are accepting Christian's claims as gospel, i.e., when he says that if people here play nice, then he will make good on the orders, you believe that to be as sure as the next sunrise. - You fail to see the twisted logic behind his little arbitrary ultimatum, i.e., you fail to see that him fulfilling his obligations and how people treat him on a forum have no logical connection. - Believing this to be a perfectly valid cause & effect scenario, you place the blame squarely on "The People of BYOAC" for Christian's reneging. Now there are plenty of potentially valid causes for the effect of Christian not being able to fulfill his obligations, but people here being "mean" to him is decidedly not one of them. Your willingness you indulge some overgrown child's fantasies of how the world should work is why people here are coming down on you. |
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