Removing The Click From Cherry MicroSwitches And Get Better Response

[fjl]

I and other people seem to hate the clicky sound and feel of the Cherry microswitches. The other option besides microswitches are leaf switches. Leaf Switches are known throughout the arcade world as having no "click" and for some players, they have a quicker and better response time. This is debateable depending on which arcade enthusiast you ask. Some preffer the soft feel of leaf switches and some preffer the click of microswitches since a click lets you know the button is pressed while a leaf switch has no sound indication that the contacts on the button are currently touching. I myself have never tried leaf switches but I do believe that they should have a better response since it doesn't work like a spring.

Microswitches have no springs either but they work in a way where a bent strip of metal constantly has tension put on it. So its kind of like a spring. At the end of the metal strip is an arm with a two sided metal contact, kind of like a two sided hammer. When the button is pressed on the microswitch, it moves the arm in the opposite direction of the tensioned metal strip. When pressed far down enough the tension is released in the opposite direction causing a hammer action on the contact end which is part of the click sound and feel to the microswitch. When the button is released the tension is returned and the arm "hammers" back into its original position. This is why you hear a click when pressing and releasing a microswitch. And I believe that the time it takes for the arm to return/click back to its original position can hinder its performance for certain games.

And if you are anything like me, you'd find this rather annoying. So I came up with a solution to remove the click and feel of the Cherry brand microswitches. I'm not here to say this will in fact improve the performance of the microswitches, make them as good as leaf switches or anything like that. But personally I feel that it does improve the feel and response of the buttons. Plus it removes the annoying clicking sound which I hate. Don't quote me on any of this. I suggest you try my method, test it out and base an opinion for yourself. Best part is that this method doesn't involve damaging the microswitches in any way so if you don't like the new feel then it's easy to return the microswitches to their original clicky selfs.

There are some VERY IMPORTANT things to take note of before deciding to do any of this.

First off, the microswitches are small sensitive mechanisms. When dissasembled there are many small parts that can easily get lost, missplaced, bent and damaged. So be sure to have a good clean and ample workplace. If you do not have good eyesight and dexterity then I would not recommend trying this out. Also If certain parts are removed from the casing, it will be very difficult to re-insert them back in correctly like the metal strip with tension. I had a hard time earlier today when I accidentally pulled out the moving parts. Took me like half an hour to put them back in properly. I will not be asking you to remove anything from the microswitch except the cover which can usually be safe to remove but you must still take caution since certain parts can get stuck to the cover. The last thing to take note of is that by choosing to use this method, you will no longer be able to use the "Normally Closed" contacts. So if your control panel uses them, then this will not work for you. I have only tried this with the Cherry brand microswitches which usually come with Happ Controls buttons. I have not tried this on the Zippy brand microswitches. It's possible to implement this on other type of microswitches but the process can be different. Others have tried. View some of the replies on this thread that others have given on modifying different microswitches.

The process of this mod simply involves inserting paper strips into the moving parts. The type of paper used makes a difference since some paper is different in thickness. For this I used white printing paper bought from Staples. This is actually quite easy to do and I don't claim to be some kind of genius to have figured this out since it's nothing grand.

Well enough babling, here is how to change the feeling and sound of your Cherry Microswitches. Sorry for some of the blurry pictures. I tried to take non blurry pictures but its usually hard to do with such small parts and a crappy camera.


Picture 1.
This is a picture of a regular Cherry Brand microswitch in its complete form. The NC is the "Normally Closed" contact while the NO is the "Normally Opened" contact. Remember that the NC will no longer be usable when doing this.


Picture 2.
This is a picture of the microswitch with the cover removed. It is actually quite easy to remove the cover with your fingernails or a small flat screw driver. The contacts usually stick to the cover so be sure to hold them in place or push them back down while removing the cover. Make sure your Cherry Microswitch contains all the same parts. If it doesn't then maybe its not a cherry switch and I recommend you do not continue. The letter A is where the metal strip with tension is located. B indicates the arm that moves up and down and C is the two sided contact that touches the NC and NO contacts. It's the part that hammers up and down and causes the "click" sound. D is the red pushable button on the microswitch. Its the only moving part that is exposed to the outside of the microswitch case.



Picture 3.
These are the small strips of paper you will use to detain and hold the moving arm "B" from hammering the contacts and making the clicky sound. Cut them to about the same size. They don't have to be exact but at least close to it. "1" will be the first paper strip and "2" will be the second paper strip.

*EDIT* BYOAC member Tiger-Heli was nice enough to create some templates to print out for some of the various microswitches. You can download it here And these are his notes;

Templates attached - Word and PDF formats.
Each square is 0.5x0.625 inches with center-line on fold.  Each sheet modifies 180 switches. I found that the squares folded to 0.25x0.625 work well for Step 1 for all three types the D4 series of switches with coil springs only.  (For these switches, you want to ensure the paper stays below the "lip" on the cover assembly for the microswitch).  For the Cherry Happ K-series switches, you want 0.4x0.625 folded to 0.2x0.625 or single sheets of 0.2x0.625 - Templates added for these, more below. Happy modding!!!

Picture 4.
Fold strip "1" in half. Be sure to fold and press down on it completely so that the bend doesn't cause the paper strip to open up or widen at the fold. Press down on it with your fingernails. Fold Strip "2" three ways as shown on the picture. DO NOT press down on the folds. It needs to be be able to push back. So just fold it slightly like on the picture.



Picture 5.
This is a representation of where we will stick the folded strip "1" paper. As you can see, it is between the NC contact point and the arms "B" contact point. This is why the NC will no longer be usable. The paper strip you see is standing up. We do no want it standing up and sticking out like it is. But this is just a representation of where it will be put and not its final place. It's better to press the button to move the arm down while inserting the paper strip.


Picture 6.
This has the paper "1" strip fully inserted. It's blurry so its hard to see but I slightly highlighted the paper in green. Note that I pushed the strip into the small groove/opening where "G" is located. That is very important. So insert it so it looks exactly like on the picture.


Picture 7.
Wow, a non blurry pic. This is a representation of where the strip "2" paper that was folded three times will be inserted. It's in front of the tip of the arm but this time it's not between any of the contacts.


Picture 8.
This is a picture with strip "2" inserted. Note that that the folds are slightly opened. This is to give it play so what when the arm pushes toward the folded paper, the paper will push back. I also pointed out where strip "1" is located. Note that both Strip 2 and 1 are pushed into that small square groove "G." Strip "2" must fit snugly inside groove "G" and touch the SIDE of the arm's contact not block the front of it.


Picture 9.
Here is another picture with both strips fully inserted. Once again note how both strips go into groove "G" and how strip 2 rests on the SIDE of the arms contact. The arm's contact is represented with "T."


Picture 10.
The gap between the Normally Open(NO) contact and the arm's contact "T" is also noticeable on picture 9 This gap is VERY important. You must have a gap! After adding strip "1" if you noticed that there is no gap, then you need to reduce the thickness of strip "1" by pressing down again on the paper after folding it or using thinner paper. You can also try using different thickness paper for strip "1" to reduce or increase the gap to your liking. Remember that the smaller the gap, the better response you can receive when pressing the button. Just don't make it too small because its possible that the gap will close and short itself after reinserting the microswitch cover.


This is where I test that everything came out right. Press on the microswitch button and see that all the moving parts work and that you no longer get a clicking sound. If anything seems iffy, then re-cut and redo the paper strips again. Remember that the point of this is to make the arm be able to move but not hammer down and make the loud clicking sound. If done right, the clicking will completely go away. In some vain attempts, the clicking will get reduced but will still be slightly noticeable. If so, try again because you did not do it right. This will most likely take a few tries before you get it right. It's possible that you'll find that there is no gap between contacts. Or that there is a gap but when pressed, the contacts don't touch. Also that the contacts only make contact when the button is pressed really hard or that it only makes contact for a split second after releasing the button. I'd had all these phenomenons happen to me while testing this out. So be sure to check for all these things before continuing. This is the tedious part.

On picture 11 & 12, I found that all the moving parts where good so I connected my multimeter and tested the microswitch. It all works! No more clicking sound and better response. At least I think so.



Next you'll need to put the microswitch cover back on and retest it again with your multimeter. It's likely that something moved out of place and no longer works like it did when the cover was off. I used my Fluke meter which has a really fast continuity test. It will beep continuously for whenever the contacts are making contact.

I did this for all of my microswitches and feel a better and quicker response. I notice that a regular Happs Button will click or make contact half way before the button reaches its stop zone. This is still the same, you just no longer get the annoying click.

So let me know what you think! 

[fjl]

reserved

Added link to Tiger-Helis small paper strips templates.

[Havok]

Interesting modification. I would like to see how that holds up over time, however...

[ratzz]

Interesting modification. I would like to see how that holds up over time, however...

I must say, that was my initial thought.

These components are tested for 100's of thousands of presses. I used to work in a factory that had a dedicated machine to test a component it used in its product, and it ran all day and all night without stopping with a counter attached.

I would have assumed that these microswitches have gone through the same rigorous process, but the modification has not.

I too would like to see if this mod works some way down the line, but it's extremely interesting and a good writeup.

Anyone fancy building a hydraulic 'finger pressing' testing machine? 

Ratzz 

[javeryh]

This is good stuff (and a great write-up).  Even if it doesn't hold up over time this at least lays the ground work for someone like Randy to manufacture/modify these switches in a more permanent/durable manner.  I'm amazed at how many people keep pushing this hobby forward.   

[shardian]

Very neat mod! If I had to venture a guess, I'd say this is alot like GGG's new microleafs.

[Green Giant]

The idea behind this is great.  The only problem is the second piece of paper that acts as the spring.  Replacing that with some plastic and adding some super glue to ensure the paper doesn't shift would really help out.  Good work 

[knave]

Neat mod.  Very clever.  As for durability, there is no way the paper will last forever.  but for home use it could be years.  Strip "1" could be replaced with any thin non conductive material...plastic, wood(lol oh like paper) tape, glue, whatever.  Strip "2" Hmmm, How does the switch work without it.  I'm not convinced that paper will retain any springlike qualities for long...but as mentioned earlier in the thread plastic might work.

Lastly...while I think this is ingenious...I'm much too lazy to do this to a CP full of switches.  I don't mind the click anyhow.

[RandyT]

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say this is alot like GGG's new microleafs.

Interesting mod, but I just wanted to note that this has nothing in common with the Micro-Leaf™ Product.  The switches are completely different internally, and they are not modded like this.

RandyT

[rooterman]

That seems like a lot of work and tweaking, and I'm not sure the paper would last that long. Imagine doing this to all of your switches, it would take forever.

rm

[Franco]

We have a range of plastic shimming (stainless too) that would probaly be more robust. It comes in a wide range of thicknesses from 0.001" up to 0.030", one of which im sure would be ideal.

[fjl]

Thanks guys. Took me a few hours to write all this up so it makes the effort worth it.

This is not meant as some kind of permanent solution that will last forever. I should have mentioned that this is just something I was fooling around with to make the click go away. Even though I first tried it with paper, I did try some other things like electrical tape and different materials. But some of them only made it harder to do so I just stuck with paper for the walkthrough.

You can try it without strip "2" but then you will be getting a slight clicking sound when releasing the button. The same if you remove strip 1 but not strip 2 except the click will be when you press instead of release.

Yeah, it does seem like a lot of work. Especially the first time trying it out, but I suggest you try it just one one button. If you like it, you can keep doing the rest. Besides after you do it the first time, you will already know what you are doing and you should be faster at it.

And Randy is right, these are not leafswitches nor some kind of replacement for them. If you want the true leaf switch experience then I suggest you buy some from Ponyboy or Randy. This is just a small mod to remove the incessant clicking.


But anyways, has anyone tried this yet? What did you think?

[Tiger-Heli]

But anyways, has anyone tried this yet? What did you think?

Tried with a Honeywell switch that I had laying around - only used the #1 strip, though, not the #2.  Also just cut up a post-it note, not a thick piece of paper like you recommended.

Clicking was at least 50% less and would likely be inaudible in a panel.  Seemed to be more responsive as well.

Probably worth doing it right.

Thanks for documenting this!!!

A no-cost improvement is always a great thing!!!!

[knave]

I wonder how well a thin strip of plastic like from blister packaging would work for strip #1. It would last longer.

[Tiger-Heli]

I wonder how well a thin strip of plastic like from blister packaging would work for strip #1. It would last longer.

I was wondering that as well, or transparency film.

[fjl]

Sure, try different things. If you find something that works better then please share.

[leapinlew]

You better mark this date on the calendar

Good job Efjayel.  Usually you're irking me about something ... but not today. 

[patrickl]

Another option might be to buy low force microswitches. I saw a page from a guy who went crazy about his keyboard and mouse switches, but I guess his endgoal was the same (ie low force and just enough "click" to keep some feel in the switch: mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitches/

He advices the Saia-Burgess G3 M1 low force microswitches which require only 15g to activate them. Internally they look like leaf switches almost  Another option he mentions is microswitches with levers 

[Tiger-Heli]

Sure, try different things. If you find something that works better then please share.

Did some experimenting - tried both a piece of card stock and a business card and found both to be too thick.  The card would invariably slide out of place and cause the switch to short out.

However, I got very good results - 50% less click and more responsive - using a single piece of 20 lb paper cut to 3/16" x 11/16" in place of strip 1 - not folded and without a strip 2.

This will ride in the curved section of Arm B above and will bow a bit at the top (where the piece that becomes the COM contact meets the top of the switch, but doesn't seem to affect anything.

I'm anxious to see other people's take on alternative solutions as well though, so keep the ideas coming.

[Tiger-Heli]

Another option he mentions is microswitches with levers 

I think that's referred to as a Micro-Leaf^TM switch.   

[Tiger-Heli]

BTW - can a mod move this to the main board instead of Arcade Misc - it belongs there AFAI'm concerned.

[patrickl]

Does anyone have the Cherry D42X microswitches? I only have D42Y version. The X ones should be a lot lighter too (.15N instead of .75N) I would guess they would make a lot less sound too.

Personally I never cared so much about the clicking, but I hate the force it takes to activate them. The Cherry microswitches I have are just too hard to press. If I didn't press exactly at the right spot on the pushbutton it would tilt the button plunger and touch down on the other side without even activating the switch at all. I went with leaf switches now, but still, it would be nice if I could put my old pushbuttons to use in some other projects.

[Tiger-Heli]

No joy!!!

My Honeywell switches look and work similar to your and I think the mod might help.

MY Cherry switches are a different story.  First off, the case consists of four parts - the base, the cover and two plastic pins - there is no way to remove the cover without shearing the heads off the pins - not that it matters as the cover will stay on without them and the switch body will hold it in place anyway.

However, the guts of the switch are totally different as well - instead of a torsion spring built into the arm, mine had a tiny coil spring with a pre-load in extension on it - this gave a positive snap action to the switch and no piece of paper was going to quiet this.

Looks like I might be in the market for some micro-leaf’s after all - although the clicking really isn’t audible to me beneath the panel anyways.

[RayB]

just buy soft-touch microswitches. People don't seem to realize there are a variety of cherry switches out there, with differing levels of "resistance" on how hard you need to push on it, and the resulting "click" sound is proportionally more intense.  Get the softest ones... one inside a closed control panel you won't really feel or hear them.

[ids]

My $0.02

The buttons I ordered some time ago (translucents from LizardLick) came with cherry switches.  I find them very easy to open, and easy to apply this mod to.

I tried just a small unfolded bit of paper for #1; this removed a fair bit of the click, minor change in feel and response, and seems to be holding up under moderate usage.

Added folded bit for #2, clicking gone, softer feel, more responsive overall.

So I think I'll apply this mod to all my buttons - it's really easy and quite cheap.  If the paper keeps coming loose, then maybe it's time to buy some other switches, but for now...

[fjl]

Finally, some feedback!

Thanks. Let me know how it holds up. I haven't built my cab yet so I need to see how it lasts over time from some good usage.

[Tiger-Heli]

Switch I took apart looked like this:

[patrickl]

From the specs I checked, my Cherry switches are like that too. I didn't feel like breaking them to find out for sure though.

[fjl]

Nice drawing. Spring loaded huh? 

[Tiger-Heli]

Nice drawing. Spring loaded huh? 

Yup - I didn't draw that though, I just stole it from Cherry's website.

[patrickl]

BTW in the specs for the Cherry D4 series microswitches, they show a low vs standard force configuration by moving (and changing)  the spring. This results in 15g or 75g activation force.

[Tiger-Heli]

BTW in the specs for the Cherry D4 series microswitches, they show a low vs standard force configuration by moving (and changing)  the spring. This results in 15g or 75g activation force.

My switches appear to be configured as the "Light force" version and they click more loudly than the Honeywell version that efjayel was trying to improve on.

It's not a huge concern to me, but anyway...

[RandyT]

BTW in the specs for the Cherry D4 series microswitches, they show a low vs standard force configuration by moving (and changing)  the spring. This results in 15g or 75g activation force.

It looks like there is also another structure added to connect the spring to in the lighter version.

This discussion illustrates a point I made in a different discussion.  These things are not created equal by a long shot and their outward appearance has little to do with what is inside or how they perform.

I'd like to bring up something else that might be useful in the context of this discussion.  "Snap" switches are an improvement over leaf switches in one very important respect.  That "snap" action makes a very fast, very positive closure of the contacts.  Undesirable switch "bounce" is virtually eliminated by this action.  So while minimizing the throw of the lever can be seen as desirable, preventing the "click" entirely is not necessarily a good thing.  And while one can mod a switch to quiet it down, the resistance provided by the switch isn't going to change much as it is a function of the spring arrangement used in that model.

FWIW.

RandyT

[fjl]

thing about the snap that I don't like is that it has to "snap" back into position so the buton can be used again. This mod prevents that "snap" back and allows it to work a little more like leaf switches in that after feeling it out, its easier to figure out the throw distance of the button and not have to allow the button to move back(snap) into its complete upward position to press it again.

[RandyT]

thing about the snap that I don't like is that it has to "snap" back into position so the buton can be used again. This mod prevents that "snap" back and allows it to work a little more like leaf switches in that after feeling it out, its easier to figure out the throw distance of the button and not have to allow the button to move back(snap) into its complete upward position to press it again.

I understand.  But one very important difference between the mechanics of a leaf switch and the mechanics of a "snap" switch that has been modified not to "snap" is that, unlike with the leaf switch, pressure cannot be brought to bear directly on the contacts of the modified snap switch.  The mechanism used for interference could result in unreliable contact closure.

RandyT

[patrickl]

This discussion illustrates a point I made in a different discussion.  These things are not created equal by a long shot and their outward appearance has little to do with what is inside or how they perform.

The design might look slightly different, but does it really matter if it uses a spring or a bent piece of metal under tension?

[RandyT]

The design might look slightly different, but does it really matter if it uses a spring or a bent piece of metal under tension?

Absolutely.

[patrickl]

The design might look slightly different, but does it really matter if it uses a spring or a bent piece of metal under tension?

Absolutely.

I don't really notice a difference though.

[Tiger-Heli]

The design might look slightly different, but does it really matter if it uses a spring or a bent piece of metal under tension?

Absolutely.

I don't really notice a difference though.

I do.

The Honeywell switches (bent piece of metal) have a moderate actuation force and a mild clicking which was easily 80% defeated by the single strip of paper inserted in Step 1 (even without the folded strip).

The Cherry switches (spring) have a very slightly stronger actuation force, but a comparatively loud clicking and a very positive "snap" (almost a hammer motion), in either the on or off position.  It hits hard enough that there is no way a piece of paper will diminish it on the NC contact (sponge rubber, maybe, or maybe removing the contact altogether), and even if you did, you still have a distinct click when it hammers the NO contact which would be tough to avoid.

Tear them apart and try to do something about the noise and you might change your opinion!!!!

[patrickl]

You claim the Cherry switches (with spring) have a higher actuation force. That's obviously wrong. The low force version needs an operating force of 15g which is about the lowest you can get. The one I have is rated at 75g and I measured it (crudely I must admit) to be around 80g.

My point was that it's not just the spring vs bent metal. It's the whole design.

I actually did take my Cherry D42Y switch apart and the noise almost disappears when I put some paper in there. You must have done something wrong when you tried. The trick is to destroy the snap action and I don't see why it wouldn't work on any other type of snap action switch.

Personally I don't really care about the sound, but I do agree that the switch works better without the "snap action". One problem I have with microswitches is that when I fire quickly sometimes the switch misses a press because of the long throw (especially the snap back). With the paper inserted this is much less of an issue.

I'd be more interested in lowering the operating force. The lowest force switches I have now are the Ultimarc T-Stick low force switches. These are actually "Micro-Leafs" and it takes between 20g and 25g to operate them. Wonder how much the leaf switches are, but they feel very light.

Another problem I have with microswitch pushbuttons is the problem they have with the uneven load. You get resistance only on one side. This means the plunger will be pushed into the side and sometimes it will not even activate the switch when the other side runs into the stop. The centered plunger tip of the leaf button is better there too.

:edit: Measured a leaf switch and it needs 100g to operate it. That's including the switch spring though. The whole microswitch pusbutton assembly (with Cherry D42Y) needs 140g

[Tiger-Heli]

You claim the Cherry switches (with spring) have a higher actuation force. That's obviously wrong. The low force version needs an operating force of 15g which is about the lowest you can get. The one I have is rated at 75g and I measured it (crudely I must admit) to be around 80g.

It's not obviously wrong...

In the first place, I don't know that the actuation force of the Honeywell switches is more than 15g.  In the second place, I don't know that the actuation force of the Cherry switches that I have is 15g (they have the same spring arrangement as the low-force that you posted a drawing of, but I didn't look at the model number.  In the third place, my Cherry switches are relatively new, and the Honeywell switches came off a wheel I bought off E-bay which had probably spent many years on location.

I actually did take my Cherry D42Y switch apart and the noise almost disappears when I put some paper in there. You must have done something wrong when you tried. The trick is to destroy the snap action and I don't see why it wouldn't work on any other type of snap action switch.

The spring provides much more snap action than the bent metal does.  How did you place the paper so it stayed in place on the D42Y switch and how did you do anything to minimize the snap action on the downstroke (the NO contact snapping down)?

Personally I don't really care about the sound, but I do agree that the switch works better without the "snap action". One problem I have with microswitches is that when I fire quickly sometimes the switch misses a press because of the long throw (especially the snap back). With the paper inserted this is much less of an issue.

Agreed, although the sound kindof pinpoints when the switch is actuated and released, so minimizing it would be good as well, from a purist standpoint.

Another problem I have with microswitch pushbuttons is the problem they have with the uneven load. You get resistance only on one side. This means the plunger will be pushed into the side and sometimes it will not even activate the switch when the other side runs into the stop. The centered plunger tip of the leaf button is better there too.

Never known this to be a problem.  I can understand in theory how it could be, but in practice I haven't seen any effects from it.

[patrickl]

I have about 10 different types of microswitches and they indeed differ in operating force, sound level, throw and built quality. The basic feel of them all is pretty similar too though.

BTW I measured the operating force by placing the switch on digital scales. I guess it's not very accurate, but it does come pretty close to what the specs say for the switches (for the ones I could find specs that is)

I actually did take my Cherry D42Y switch apart and the noise almost disappears when I put some paper in there. You must have done something wrong when you tried. The trick is to destroy the snap action and I don't see why it wouldn't work on any other type of snap action switch.

The spring provides much more snap action than the bent metal does.  How did you place the paper so it stayed in place on the D42Y switch and how did you do anything to minimize the snap action on the downstroke (the NO contact snapping down)?

I only used paper piece 1. This keeps the blade close to the middle and almost eliminates the snap action. The piece of paper is stopped by the spring (where the spring is attached to the blade). I guess I could simply glue/tape the piece of paper to the upper contact if I really wanted it to stay put. Actually i could fold a strip of paper lengthwise and make it go towards the NO contact too. I just wasn't sure what that was supposed to achieve and the effect of the paper on the NC contact did the trick already.

[fjl]

That's a nice  close up picture. What kind of camera do you have?
Those spring switches work in a rather interesting manner.

[patrickl]

That's a nice  close up picture. What kind of camera do you have?

Thanks, but that's actually not a close-up. It's a 100% zoomed crop of the other picture. I did put on my macro lens, but the light was bad (that picture is a 4 second exposure) and I got lazy. The camera is a Konica Minolta 7D with a 180m macro lens.

Those spring switches work in a rather interesting manner.

Your modification works pretty well on it. Maybe I should try putting piece 2 in also, but it looks like it will be a bit finicky to get it right and just the top piece alone got rid of about 90% of the sound and the snapping.

[ids]

I was quite skeptical about piece 2 but it made a huge difference.  However, your button is also quite different, and I'm not sure how much it could really help.  The button in the original write-up by efjayel is what I have, and I can only assume it helps moderate the "snap" to the lower position.  Your button does not have much metal hanging past the contact positions, where piece 2 could provide a moderating influence.

But what do I know....

[patrickl]

I tried piece 2 as well and indeed it still removes more of the sound and snap. It's now really almost noiseless and snap free. I'd personally go so far as to say that it's too quiet and offers no feedback anymore.

To make sure the pieces stay put, it would probably be better to do this from one piece of paper (or plastic) and fold it where piece 1 and 2 meet (like a Z shape).

This time with a proper close up picture:

[Tiger-Heli]

Patrick,

Thanks for the pictures, gives me some ideas.

BTW, I assume you realize that the switch you have pictured is the high-force variety and you are saying that you have low-force switches as well.

FWIW, my Cherry switches are D44LR1-AA (from the markings on the side), and according to http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/miniature/pdf/D4_Series.pdf if they are the low-force version, they require 75g to actuate.

I didn't have a digital scale to test anything else.

[patrickl]

Patrick,

Thanks for the pictures, gives me some ideas.

BTW, I assume you realize that the switch you have pictured is the high-force variety and you are saying that you have low-force switches as well.

You're welcome and yes I have the standard force D42Y switches (75g). A comparable US version would probably be D42CR1-AA.

FWIW, my Cherry switches are D44LR1-AA (from the markings on the side), and according to http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/miniature/pdf/D4_Series.pdf if they are the low-force version, they require 75g to actuate.

I didn't have a digital scale to test anything else.

Ah ok, thought you had a E21 series switch (because of your picture) You could try a kitchen scale to test the force. I just pushed it on and noted when it clicked. Digital is easier to read, but it should work with analog too.

Technical Specification TS-D4-00001 D4 Miniature Switch Series (European version 2004)

BTW don't let the spring come off. I did and I see no way to get it back on 

[Grasshopper]

Incidentally, does anyone here know of a good source for microswitches? Places like Happ and Suzo only seem to carry a limited range and are also very overpriced.

[Tiger-Heli]

Patrick - I posted the picture before I noticed what the side of the switch said.

Grasshopper - In the EU, you might try www.rapidonline.com - I ran across them on a google search for another project before I realized they were overseas.  In the US, you could try either www.mouser.com or www.newark.com and in Canada www.digi-key.com, although their prices seem to be a bit high.

(And other than mouser I can't say that these are great links but they all carry a good selection of electronics.)

[patrickl]

Incidentally, does anyone here know of a good source for microswitches? Places like Happ and Suzo only seem to carry a limited range and are also very overpriced.

Other options could be electrical components webstores like RS-Components, Farnell or Conrad

Oddly enough the Saia G3 switches are lot more expensive at the UK branch of RS-Components than at the dutch one.

[fjl]

I was quite skeptical about piece 2 but it made a huge difference.  However, your button is also quite different, and I'm not sure how much it could really help.  The button in the original write-up by efjayel is what I have, and I can only assume it helps moderate the "snap" to the lower position.  Your button does not have much metal hanging past the contact positions, where piece 2 could provide a moderating influence.

But what do I know....

Yes, the second paper is a cushion. Like I mentioned before, the arm snaps or hammers up and down, when you press and release the button. This is the click. Paper 2 cushions the "press" and prevents the arm from hammering down on the contact but still allows it to make contact. Paper 1 simply prevents the "release" from making contact or hammering back into position but also leaves a smaller gap between the contacts allowing for a smaller throw distance which gives the button a better response.

I've tried both, only using paper 1 or only using paper 2. Either one will have lower noise but together they both complement each other both in sound and response.

[Tiger-Heli]

This mod is incredible!!!

Few things in this hobby have ever come along (1Up’s spring removal is now the close second) that cost so little and created such dramatic improvement in gameplay, and on top of it all are completely reversible if you decide the mod is not for you.

This is not a fair comment to make, and but from everything I have read about the Micro-Leaf switches, this mod does the exact same thing in terms of feel.  (I haven’t used the Micro-Leafs, but after modifying my switches, they feel like I remember the arcade games when I was growing up).  To clarify that statement, the following statements would apply to the modified switches and are about identical to what I have read from reviews of the Micro-Leaf’s

1)   Virtually silent - can be slightly heard outside of the panel, but generally are quieter than the sound of either the spring compressing or the plunger hitting the microswitch.
2)   No aural feedback - the clicking gives you a definite “now I have clicked the switch” feedback.  The modification removes this and the switches have significant overtravel.
3)   Faster response time.
4)   Less actuation force.
5)   Requires the original pushbutton spring for accurate feeling.

I really feel bad for RandyT posting this, b/c I liked and considered purchasing the Micro-Leafs, and I was sorry to see them crucified in the main forum over the product name without even a decent review, and then a mod comes out that delivers as best I can tell at least 80% of the same benefits for no cost other than a sheet of paper and an hour or so’s work.

The Test:

I modified all of my Player 1 buttons.  I previously was using Cherry D44L buttons without any springs in the pushbuttons (ala 1Up).  I put springs back in my P1B4 and P1B5 and unmodified P2B4 and P2B5 buttons.  I then configured MAME so P1B1 was either P1B1, P1B4, P2B1, P2B4, etc.  This way I had:
P1B1 and P1B2 - Modified switches with no springs.
P1B4 and P1B5 - Modified switches with springs.
P2B1 and P2B2 - Standard switches without springs (previous configuration).
P2B4 and P2B5 - Standard switches with springs (standard configuration).
I also modified one of my Prodigy joysticks.  These use Cherry D42Y switches which are identical to the ones PatrickL posted earlier.  Once you get used to the short throw, I really like the sticks, but the Cherry switches are by their nature clicky and since the Prodigy mounts above the panel with a metal mounting plate they are (were) very clicky joysticks.  It doesn’t affect gameplay as much as it just seems unrealistic.  (Keep in mind I don’t have an arcade machine, I have a desktop controller, so often the volume will be just loud enough for me to know that something off-screen exploded, so the clicking is likely much more distracting for me than it would be for most others.)

I then fired up Tiger-Heli.  If you have played this game, there is a red drum on top of a building on the right on the first stage that is worth 10,000 points if you shoot it enough times.  I remember in the arcades, I could usually hit this 7 out of 8 times I played the game, so I used this as my test (I could almost never do it with the keyboard, could do it about 40% of the time with the 1Up mod).

Test Results -
Modified without springs - There is almost instantaneous activation and it is very easy to get off shots, however, I think there may also be some “bounce” where if you aren’t careful you will get off more shots than you intended.  The big plus is there is no tactile feel of when the shot if firing, which is a biggie for arcade realism.  I think this is about the equivalent of leaf switches with the leaves adjusted for minimum travel.  Probably ideal for Galaga or Asteroids.  Hitting the barrel was easy.

Modified with springs - Activation is longer (seems to take longer - the distance would be the same, but there is more force (actually, there is more distance as well because the spring holds the plunger higher.)  This is what I remember from the arcades.  Hitting the barrel was pretty easy, but you had to concentrate on nailing the button, like the arcade game.  Feel was very good with no real lack of realism.  This is probably the most authentic and would also be a good setting for later games like Mortal Kombat that actually used micro-switch buttons.

Standard without springs - This is what I was used to using.  The click really takes away from it.  Not as much the sound as much as the constant awareness that “I am pushing the button down and now it’s clicking so the switch is closed.”  It’s not something that’s consciuously annoying, but it is there nonetheless.

Standard with springs - After being so used to without springs, I didn’t like this at all.  Travel is very long and it is very difficult to rapidly press the buttons.  Better than using a keyboard, but that’s about it.

Prodigy Joysticks - I saw no difference in gameplay.  I found the D42Y switches harder to modify but got 3 of the switches silent outside the panel and one much quieter than non-modified.  The modified stick still had slight clicking so apparently there is some noise of the actuator hitting the microswitch still present - but it is much quieter than the unmodified stick.  Both sticks are very responsive, so any increase in responsiveness was minimal, but that was not desired anyway. 

Conclusion - Tough call between the springs (arcade accurate) and without the springs (easier) If you give yourself 5 lives instead of 3 you probably won’t want the springs.  I’ll probably use them - I just have to find my old ones that I thought I’d never use again (I stole my admin button springs for the test.)  UPDATE: Found the old ones - good thing too, b/c after this if I had to buy new ones from RandyT they would likely be $2.70 each (price of the micro-leafs) or at least $1.35 each (price of full pusbuttons).  (j/k - kinda).

Tips and pointers:

I only did the Step 1 part of the mod (paper over the NC contact).  For me with that done, the switch was quieter than either the spring or the plastic plunger hitting the plastic actuator and I think there is a possibility of the Step 2 paper sliding down and shorting out the swing arm from hitting the NO contact, so good enough was fine for me.

For the D44L switches, I initially tried with a 5/8”x1/4” cut up business card.  This was too thick and resulted in the switch being stuck closed.  Next I tried a single 5/8x1/4” strip of 20lb paper.  This was too thin and didn’t stop the noise and also was free to slide out of position in the switch.  Finally, I ended up as ejfayel initially recommended, with a cut piece of 5/8x1/2” paper folded in half lengthwise.

The D42Y’s use much thicker plastic and feel more solid than the D44L’s.  They also have less internal free space.  When I tried with a 5/8x1/2” folded paper, the cover crushed the paper causing the switch to be stuck closed.  I didn’t mark exactly, but the solution was to cut 1/16” or so off the strip prior to folding it.  I also recommend putting the paper as far right (near the side that the terminals exit on) as possible.  The mod works fine with these changes.

I didn’t trust myself with a ruler and scissors to make straight lines, so I used a bunch of text boxes in Microsoft Word, printed that out and cut strips along the box edges.  I had 5/8”x3/8” strips with 1/8” gap between rows from the Honeywell test, but two rows plus gaps was perfect.  You can easily modify more than 50 switches from a single sheet.

Go ahead and cut the plastic rivet heads off the Cherry swithches.  You will destroy them taking the covers off anyway, and the covers will stay on without them.

After you remove the cover - check to be sure all the metal bits are still in the indentations designed for them, they tend to fall out from them.

As Patrick said, DO NOT  REMOVE THE COMMON GROUND, SWING ARM, SPRING, AND ACTUATOR ASSEMBLY.  I did and it took well over a half-hour to put it back and it wasn’t easy.  Ejfayel warned about this with the Honeywell switch style and that took five minutes by comparison.  Also, the D42Y’s are a bit prone to dropping the spring off as you remove the cover, and it is also a pain to get back on.

With the cover off, I pushed the actuator down and inserted the fold end of the paper first - it should look like Patrick’s earlier picture, but the paper will fit into the groove near the contacts and then wedge between that and the vertical part of the COM terminal.

Thanks again efjayel for discovering this!!!

Apologies to RandyT for doing a comparison based on hearsay.

[RandyT]

Apologies to RandyT for doing a comparison based on hearsay.

While I don't think a comparison without actually comparing the items in question is appropriate, I do think that this mod provides an improvement to the stock switches.  But I honestly think that only part 1 should be done and that in a very controlled fashion, with the right materials to prevent maintenance problems down the road.

That being said, I have done a similar mod to a few switches here and while an improvement to the stock switch, they still do not respond the same way as the Micro-Leafs.  I don't want to crap all over this good thread with product info, but it's relevant due to the number of times it has come up here.

So here are the differences between this mod and the Micro-Leaf switch. 

The Micro-Leaf™:

Has less tactile feedback (Virtually none)

Is quieter (barring the use of the interference part #2, which probably will cause more problems than part #1)

Can be user adjusted from very sensitive, providing "hair trigger" performance by default, to being less sensitive by tweaking the metal blade as one would a leaf-switch.

Has a much lower actuation force.  Using a digital scale, actuation of the modified Cherry required roughly 3 times the force of the Micro-Leaf switch.

Does not have foreign material inside the switch that might break down and interfere with the contacts.  It doesn't take more than a few paper fibers between the contacts to cause a potential problem.

Doesn't require time consuming modification / maintenance.

Costs about as much as, or less than, a low actuation force standard microswitch, which still appears to require more force than the Micro-Leaf.


This is based on my tests and research with both items.  I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other Micro-Leaf users on how the mod compares so it's not thought that my findings are skewed by bias. But they would have to take the time to modify a switch or two, so I don't know how likely that will be .

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Hmmmn, it's very tempting at this point to order a couple of Micro-Leafs just to do a valid comparision.

I still think these modified switches seem like what I am reading from your comments of the Micro-Leafs^TM.  I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but here is how I see this:

But I honestly think that only part 1 should be done and that in a very controlled fashion, with the right materials to prevent maintenance problems down the road.

I ended up only doing Part I.  Too much potential problems from part II with only minimal probable gain.
 

The Micro-Leaf™:

Has less tactile feedback (Virtually none)

I'm not sure what you are going for here.  With the unmodified switches, there is aural feedback (you hear when the switch clicks).  With the modified ones, there really isn't any aural or tactile feedback when you are mashing buttons.  I suppose you could make the argument that if you slowly and deliberately depress the modified switches, you might feel when the plunger contacts the microswitch actuator (errm, colored tab part), and that might not happen on a Micro-Leaf, but it would happen on a normal leaf switch as well (I don't think the plunger is in contact with the top leaf when the switch is not depressed).

Is quieter (barring the use of the interference part #2, which probably will cause more problems than part #1)

Maybe, but as I said, the click is much quieter even with only #1 done and to me is quieter than either the compressing and expanding of the spring in the pushbutton assembly, or the pushbutton plunger hitting the colored tab of the switch, so I don't know that additional quieting would help.

Can be user adjusted from very sensitive, providing "hair trigger" performance by default, to being less sensitive by tweaking the metal blade as one would a leaf-switch.

I think you are pretty close to hair trigger with the modified switches without springs in the push-buttons.  You can also somewhat tweak the responsiveness by how many folds of paper you use in Step 1, although I'll admit bending the blade is less cumbersome.

Has a much lower actuation force.  Using a digital scale, actuation of the modified Cherry required roughly 3 times the force of the Micro-Leaf switch.

I would like to see detailed comparisons on actuation forces.
PatrickL's and both of my (unmodified) Cherry switches are 75g.
Patrick stated that an installed pushbutton with the Cherry switches and springs was 140g.
Patrick stated a leaf switch with the springs are 100g.
Cherry makes low force switches which are 15g, which if the math is correct would be 80g when installed in a pushbutton.

Would be curious to know the actuation force of the Modified Cherry's and the Micro-Leaf swithces (either in or out of the buttons), both of which are unknowns at this point.  (I'm not sure how much the mod reduces the actuation force, but it apparently reduces it enough that I thought I should add the 65g springs back in.)

Does not have foreign material inside the switch that might break down and interfere with the contacts.  It doesn't take more than a few paper fibers between the contacts to cause a potential problem.
Doesn't require time consuming modification.

Valid points (combined both into one quote).  (Although in my case, I probably need to bend the tabs on the Micro-Leafs, which takes some time (I won't pretend that's as long as modding the switches)).

Costs about as much as, or less than, a low actuation force standard microswitch, which still appears to require more force than the Micro-Leaf.

Agreed.  OTOH, most buttons already come with microswitches, so modding them costs a single sheet of printer paper and your time.  Using low-force switches or microleafs requires an investment of at least $2.75 per button (or twice what the basic button switch combo costs, still requires swapping the switches out (simple) and leaves you with a bunch of switches that you no longer need.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other Micro-Leaf users on how the mod compares so it's not thought that my findings are skewed by bias. But they would have to take the time to modify a switch or two, so I don't know how likely that will be .

I'd like to hear that too.

[patrickl]

Has a much lower actuation force.  Using a digital scale, actuation of the modified Cherry required roughly 3 times the force of the Micro-Leaf switch.

The Saia Burgess G3 switches need only one fith (15g) the operating force of the switch I have (75g). What kind of "weight" are you talking about with the MicroLeafs, is it 25g?

Costs about as much as, or less than, a low actuation force standard microswitch, which still appears to require more force than the Micro-Leaf.

I've seen the G3 switches for 72 cents (when ordering 5 or more).

[patrickl]

Maybe it would be an idea to mount MicroLeafs or modified microswitches to a Leaf switch button assembly. I'm wondering if it's not the centered plunger that makes these feel better to me.

[RandyT]

I'd really rather not continue on about the Micro-Leafs in this thread.  They really don't belong, as we are talking about two totally different types of switches here.

But I'll finish with the following; the actuation force of a Micro-Leaf is rated at 8 grams, almost half that of the "low force" standard switches.  Switches cost what they cost depending where you buy them, the specs  / brand you want and how many you purchase.  I've seen switches of these types costing several dollars each.  But, it doesn't matter what they cost if they never really get you where you want to be.  If they do, and you can get them cheap, you "win" .

Also keep in mind that changing the position on the resistance curve doesn't alter the highest resistance.  It may alter the shape of the curve, but the actuation force (peak of the curve) will ultimately remain the same.  I tested the mod as you did without a spring in the pushbutton.  Because the internal resistance of the modded switch is intentionally dampened at higher plunger levels, the spring-less button has a "mushy" feel compared to the more snappy return of a Micro-Leaf equipped button with a spring in it. 

The pre-actuation travel of the plunger was also still longer. The actuation point does not move with the mod.  On the modded switch, the metal flexes and "snaps" at exactly the same point in the downward stroke.  You can get faster cycling if you can stop the up stroke at the right spot and continue downwards again, but there is no way to, say, move that "hair trigger actuation" to the top of the switch motion with this mod.

You will probably only understand the difference by actually comparing the two (as I have done.)  But if what you have with the mod is good enough for you, then there is no need to look further.  Likewise, there is also no need to state that what you are happy with is the same as something you haven't seen or used, as it just isn't the case here.

RandyT

[patrickl]

But I'll finish with the following; the actuation force of a Micro-Leaf is rated at 8 grams, almost half that of the "low force" standard switches. 

Cool 

Switches cost what they cost depending where you buy them, the specs  / brand you want and how many you purchase.  I've seen switches of these types costing several dollars each.  But, it doesn't matter what they cost if they never really get you where you want to be.  If they do, and you can get them cheap, you "win" .

Yeah really. Some microswitches seem to made of pure gold. I saw microswitches ranging in price from 30 cents up to 23 euro a piece in the list (same site that has 72 cent switches).

[patrickl]

I'm not sure how much the mod reduces the actuation force, but it apparently reduces it enough that I thought I should add the 65g springs back in.

Actually, I didn't notice a reduction in max operating force. Maybe it's just a feel thing? Pressing a leaf switch felt lighter to me than pressing the plunger of the microswitch. When in reality the leaf was stronger.

[Tiger-Heli]

Actually, I didn't notice a reduction in max operating force. Maybe it's just a feel thing? Pressing a leaf switch felt lighter to me than pressing the plunger of the microswitch. When in reality the leaf was stronger.

True, now that I think about it, the biggest problem I had with the mod without springs was that the buttons felt "too loose" or too easy to hit an accidental double-click.

[Tiger-Heli]

But I'll finish with the following; the actuation force of a Micro-Leaf is rated at 8 grams, almost half that of the "low force" standard switches.

Thanks Randy, that helps put it in perspective.  And your comments about the resistance curve and moving the actuation point makes sense also and helps me understand the difference.

Likewise, there is also no need to state that what you are happy with is the same as something you haven't seen or used, as it just isn't the case here.

I didn't quite say it was the same, I said it was 80% of the Micro-Leafs, based on what had been previously posted.  On second thought, maybe I shouldn't order the Micro-Leafs for comparison, b/c I have a feeling if I tried them I would never again settle for less. 

[fjl]

the actuation force of a Micro-Leaf is rated at 8 grams, almost half that of the "low force" standard switches.

Just how much force is that? Cause I've played some arcades before where the button was so sensitive that simply resting my finger on the button would activate it. Found that rather annoying.

Nice write up tiger-heli. Glad to see you really enjoy my mod and put it to use on different type microswithes. 

Although, what is this 1up spring removal mod you speak of? I'd like to check that out.

[Tiger-Heli]

Just how much force is that? Cause I've played some arcades before where the button was so sensitive that simply resting my finger on the button would activate it. Found that rather annoying.

I don't want to drag Randy's product through the thread anymore, but to give you perspective -
PatrickL's and both of my (unmodified) Cherry switches are 75g.  (Coil spring switches)
Patrick stated that an installed pushbutton with the Cherry switches and springs was 140g.  (Which makes the spring in the pushbutton 65g).
Patrick stated a leaf switch with the springs is 100g.
Cherry makes low force switches which are 15g, which if the math is correct would be 80g when installed in a pushbutton.
Randy's switches are 8g - which is half of the low force cherry switches.  Now you are going to use the pushbutton springs with Randy's switches which makes the total activation force of Randy's pushbuttons about 73g.

So Randy's switches with the pushbutton springs and my switches without the pushbutton spring are about the same force.  (This is the unmodified switches, although it's debatable whether the mod changes the actuating force, although I added the springs back after the mod, so it made some change.)  Assuming your bent leaf spring switches are approximately the same force as the coil spring ones, you can approximate the force of Randy's switches by using an unmodified switch and removing the spring from the pushbutton.  (I am not implying that this will give you the feel of Randy's Micro-Leafs just that it should take the same force.)

Nice write up tiger-heli. Glad to see you really enjoy my mod and put it to use on different type microswithes. 

I'm having a ball, I'll likely upload templates for the paper slips sometime next week.

Although, what is this 1up spring removal mod you speak of? I'd like to check that out.

It's simple and what I described above.  Basically, about 5 (or more?) years ago, member 1Up suggested removing the spring from inside of the plunger of a standard pushbutton and letting the spring of the microswitch provide the return on the plunger.  This does three things:
1)  Actuation is lighter, since you now have only 75g on the plunger from the microswitch, not 75g from the micro plus 60g from the spring.
2)  Actuation is faster, since the plunger is now resting directly on the microswitch and doesn't have to travel a few mm before making contact.
3)  Switch is a bit quieter b/c you don't have the "hammer" effect when the plunger hits the micro, and you don't get the metallic twanging you sometimes hear from the expansion and compression of the pushbutton spring.  (This is minor, though).

I highly recommended the mod with unmodified switches, but with the modified ones, I thought it made the switches too mushy, too likely to double-press, and too much of a hair-trigger like you described.

[patrickl]

I don't want to drag Randy's product through the thread anymore

Why not? Both solutions try to achieve the same goal, so it does seem a fair comparison.

Anyway, I tried the light force (T-Stick replacement) switches and that makes a huge difference too. These switches (likemost joystick switches I guess) have a hinged lever over the plunger, but I doubt that matters much.

When there is no tough microswitch force building up it just feels much better. It feels more like the "glide on air" effect you get with leaf switches.

I'd love to be able to get some force graphs of the action (distance pressed vs force). I'm pretty sure the graph will tell why things feel better or worse.

I still have problems with the snap back not happening though. Maybe it's because I'm "trigger finger challenged", but when I fire in fast repeat I tend to miss shots because I don't let the button go up enough. Maybe paper piece 2 would help there.

[Tiger-Heli]

Why not? Both solutions try to achieve the same goal, so it does seem a fair comparison.

Partly b/c he stated he didn't want to discuss it in this thread, and mainly b/c I have no experience with it, so it would all be "Randy and other Micro-Leaf^TM users said it did this ..."

These switches (likemost joystick switches I guess) have a hinged lever over the plunger, but I doubt that matters much.

Seems to be a mixed bag there (if I am understanding you correctly).  The Prodigy joystick do not have this, nor from what I've read do Happ Comps.  Happ Supers and I think the Reunion's do, and Randy's Micro-Leaf's do, so it may make more difference than you think, but I can't say for sure.

I still have problems with the snap back not happening though. Maybe it's because I'm "trigger finger challenged", but when I fire in fast repeat I tend to miss shots because I don't let the button go up enough.

Did you have the springs in the pushbuttons installed.  There likely is a relationship between the actuation force and the amount of snap-back force, as I don't seem to notice much of a problem with that with the 75g switches, but that is just hypothesis as well.

[patrickl]

I still have problems with the snap back not happening though. Maybe it's because I'm "trigger finger challenged", but when I fire in fast repeat I tend to miss shots because I don't let the button go up enough.

Did you have the springs in the pushbuttons installed.  There likely is a relationship between the actuation force and the amount of snap-back force, as I don't seem to notice much of a problem with that with the 75g switches, but that is just hypothesis as well.

I tried with and without the spring and I have the problem both with the 25g and the 75g switches. It's more like I move my finger up and down fast to fire and sometimes it just doesn't come up far enough. Then the switch does not snap back and when I press down again nothing happens. Guess I should just lear to pull up my finger higher, but then I don't have the problem with leaf switches (not sure why not though).

In games it shows as an incomplete stream of shots.

[Tiger-Heli]

Patrick - you probably don't want to hear this, but I think that's somewhat what Randy was getting at with the hair-trigger activation.

FWIW, I've seen the incomplete stream of shots both in MAME and in the arcade (assuming those were leaf buttons), so I'm just used to it, I guess.

I've also seen players lay down a rapid sequence of shots in games like Asteroids (which were definitely leafs), although I was never great at that either.

[patrickl]

Patrick - you probably don't want to hear this, but I think that's somewhat what Randy was getting at with the hair-trigger activation.

Well I was protesting against the name rather than the product itself. Although for that much money I would opt to buy more leaf switches.

I was never great at that either.

I guess I should face the fact that I'm neither that great

Does make sense that "hair trigger" activation would reduce the issue. In fact, efjayel's mod does reduce it a bit already and by experimenting with "piece 2" it might even be better.

[RandyT]

Does make sense that "hair trigger" activation would reduce the issue. In fact, efjayel's mod does reduce it a bit already and by experimenting with "piece 2" it might even be better.

Here's my take on it.  With the actuation point at the center of the throw, it's hard to know while playing that you have allowed the switch mechanism to return far enough to "reset" the action.  There is no reference you can use to know, so the result is overtravel or undertravel, leading to the issue you are experiencing.

If the moment of actuation was moved very close to the top of the motion, with the "reset" occurring just at the point where the button is at rest, one can use the a repetitive light tap and know that the button will fire every time.  This is far more difficult to do with the actuation buried in the middle of the travel.

The reason it works so well with a leaf switch setup is that the buttons themselves have very little resistance and when given a little pressure, rest on the leaf.  The leaf has more resistance than the button, so you have a tactile reference point and a very small amount of travel required beyond that point for activation.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Templates attached - Word and PDF formats.

Each square is 0.5x0.625 inches with center-line on fold.  Each sheet modifies 180 switches.

I found that the squares folded to 0.25x0.625 work well for Step 1 for all three types the D4 series of switches with coil springs only.  (For these switches, you want to ensure the paper stays below the "lip" on the cover assembly for the microswitch).  For the Cherry Happ K-series switches, you want 0.4x0.625 folded to 0.2x0.625 or single sheets of 0.2x0.625 - Templates added for these, more below.

Happy modding!!!

I have some new news on this mod.

First off - I modified all the switches on my panel.  When I tested it, 3 of the switches showed they were stuck closed - two of the pinball flippers and the Shazaaam! Button (which are all vertical).  I pulled the wires to the switches, and when I pulled the lid of the panel up to pull the wires I noticed that the 6 button (Coin 2) came on.  I took this switch out and when I popped the cover off, the spring and sliding contact piece came out, so I think the switch may not have been properly re-assembled to begin with.  Oddly, I did not remove the remaining switches, but simply plugged the wires back in and they were working fine afterwards.

Based on the above and some other results that I will get to later, I am downgrading this mod to “not ready for commercial use” (especially with the Happ-Cherry microswitches that efjayel posted originally, although these were not the ones that gave me problems).  What I mean by that is, for example, RandyT’s switches are rated for 1,000,000 cycles (I think he said), and he can comfortably ship them across the country and be sure they will work.  These switches seem to work fine now, but I’m not counting on 100 games of Tiger-Heli without having to re-adjust them in my own panel, much less shipping them to someone else.  It is however a free and fairly simple mod to do and works quite well when done properly (and re-doing the mod or removing it when/if it fails is not a big deal either) - I encourage anyone that doesn’t like the clicking microswitches to at least give it a shot.

Three of the switches on my panel turned out to be the Happ-Cherry-Bent leaf switches that Efjayel described initially.  These are similar, but not identical to the Honeywell switches I had.  I found them easier to work on than the D44L and D42Y switches, but harder to modify.  The switches were identified as KWJA0017 95073301, so possibly we can find some specs on actuation force.  Done - http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/miniature/k.htm - also 75g.  Cherry does make a 25g version of these.

Differences - I believe the KWJA’s are a later design.  The cover is easier to remove (no faux rivets to destroy or cut off), the top and bottom contact plates are identical, and all the pieces are firmly retained in the plastic.  The D44L and D42Y switches contact plates wobble a bit until the two halves are clicked together.  Also, the contacts themselves are centered on the KWJA’s and offset toward the outer cover on the D4 switches.  The D4 pivoting contact tends to torque and twist a bit as it actuates, but the coil spring gives it a much stronger “snap” as it pivots down.

KWJA modification:  These switches cannot be modified with the same paper that was used for the D4 switches.  What you want is a piece of 0.62x0.4 (not 0.5) paper folded tightly in half.  This sits in the valley of the bent spring actuator.  I tried this on one switch and got the switch to read open, briefly closed as the actuator was pressed, and then open again as the actuator was fully depressed.  This might explain Patrick’s missed shots if he was using these switches.  The solution for these switches is to move the paper further away from the contacts.  You want it back by the vertical section of the COM terminal, not wedged against the right side near the NO and NC terminals like you would on the D4 switches.  Even with that, I usually would get a switch that read stuck closed, but I could take a jeweler’s screwdriver and push up on the contact arm toward the NC contact and that would usually get the switch working fine.  However, with the D4 switches, I usually had a visual gap of at least a mm between the arm and the NO contact AFTER the paper was installed.  With the KWJA’s, I could just barely make out any gap or sometimes could not even make out a gap.  It seemed to work fine on the multi-meter, but it doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy on the longevity of the mod’s success.

D4 Modification:  About the only thing I learned is the switches can be finicky about the thickness of the paper used.  The paper seems to vary, thinnest to thickest as follows:
Tight fold, inserted crease first.
Loose fold, inserted crease first
Tight fold, inserted crease out
Loose fold, inserted crease out
Having the paper too thick results in the switch either stuck or sticking closed, too thin results in louder clicking (but still much quieter than unmodified).  I modded about 3/4ths of the switches loose fold, crease first, before I discovered this, and I DID NOT go back and re-do them.

Theory and talking points:

I don’t understand WHY the mod works.  Most of the noise to me seems to come from the switch hammering down, with a slight click when the switch is released.  This mod looks like it should quiet the release and not do much at all about the downstroke click, yet it works very well.

Hair-Trigger - On both the modded and non-modded D4’s, I did not have a digital scale, but using a multimeter, I was virtually unable to depress the plunger on the switch at all before the switch clicked down and registered closed.  With the plunger springs in the buttons removed, the button plunger literally rests on the switch plunger.  I don’t see how you could get faster actuation than that - granted, you don’t get a positive return as you would with the springs, but …

Feel - Again, I didn’t have a scale, but the mod significantly changes the feel of the D4 switches.  With the unmodified switches, there is moderate initial pressure, then as the coil spring snaps the swing arm down, the pressure is less as you continue to depress the switch, and as you release the switch, the pressure gradually increases until the switch snaps up, and then the pressure tapers back down.  With the modified switches, I don’t notice any change in resistance as the switch is pressed and released.

[RandyT]

Theory and talking points:

I don’t understand WHY the mod works.  Most of the noise to me seems to come from the switch hammering down, with a slight click when the switch is released.  This mod looks like it should quiet the release and not do much at all about the downstroke click, yet it works very well.

This is simply the effect of reducing momentum.  Shorter distance, less momentum, softer impact, less noise.

Hair-Trigger - On both the modded and non-modded D4’s, I did not have a digital scale, but using a multimeter, I was virtually unable to depress the plunger on the switch at all before the switch clicked down and registered closed.  With the plunger springs in the buttons removed, the button plunger literally rests on the switch plunger.  I don’t see how you could get faster actuation than that - granted, you don’t get a positive return as you would with the springs, but …

Every switch has a measurable actuation travel.  It's in the specs for the switch published by the manufacturer.  This number will not change with this mod.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Every switch has a measurable actuation travel.  It's in the specs for the switch published by the manufacturer.  This number will not change with this mod.

Fair enough, but for these particular switches it appears to be 0.047 inches MAX, which I still say is barely measurable.

[RandyT]

Every switch has a measurable actuation travel.  It's in the specs for the switch published by the manufacturer.  This number will not change with this mod.

Fair enough, but for these particular switches it appears to be 0.047 inches MAX, which I still say is barely measurable.

You do realize that it's a little over than 1/24th of an inch, right?  "Barely measurable" by my standards would require another zero to the right of the decimal point

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

You do realize that it's a little over than 1/24th of an inch, right?  "Barely measurable" by my standards would require another zero to the right of the decimal point

To notice by feel?

[RandyT]

To notice by feel?

Well, that would depend on who you talk to.  People who tweak their leaf switches for hair trigger actuation are probably leaving only a third of that distance between the contacts and there is no reset travel requirement.  While no microswitch based solution can claim to do that, ones with shorter actuation distances or the ability to be adjusted will get you closer.

RandyT

[fjl]

Thanks for those templates Tiger-Hell. I added it to my original thread.

[clockwork]

So for those who've implemented this, how's the mod holding out?

[Numbski]

Just thought I'd point out that I did this mod to 4 matsushita switches that were in one of my Seimitsu joysticks.  Works fine.   We'll see how it holds up over time, but dang it's a whole lot quieter now.

[Xiaou2]

 Just thought Id point out that a bent metal piece made of 'spring steel'  IS A SPRING.
Its just not a  'Coil Spring'.

 
 As for the paper mod...  its wont last very long.  Also, because the springs tension
may be designed to operate effectively at certain distances... its new leverage
points and or distances  may eventually cause it to change enough to lose its springy-ness altogether.

 
 The biggest problem with Leafs is that they can get out of alignment because
they can bend past their intended positions.    Adding a bottom bracket to prevent
that would solve it.   You might even cushion the bottom of the switch with a
small piece of rubber.


 One could also use a smaller leaf switch,  and install it into a  Microswitch
type frame.   An additional spring might be nessessary to keep the leaf
from eventually staying closed.

 The hybrid leafs may not last quite as long as typical micros... however, they
would be a lot more responsive, and have no clicking.

[dmworking247]

I first read this thread when it started, and I've just come back to it because I tried to try my "own mod of this mod", based on the initial comments that paper would not be very durable.

I decided to REMOVE the 'normally closed' pin (which I never use), and replace it with a chopped-piece of a regular plastic cable tie.. It is plastic so its much more durable, and it wedges nicely in the spot where the 'normally closed' pin used to be, keeping it in place.

I never expected the thread to get so long-winded and technical though... all very good information, but from my perspective this is an (almost) free 'take it or leave it' mod that you can make (and subsequently reverse if you wish) to your cheap micros.

The micros I use here aren't genuine happ/cherries but you can see the similarities. By my estimation the mod I used halved the pressure required to 'click' the switch, reduced the 'click' volume by 70-80% and COMPLETELY removed the 'return click'.  You can also seemingly modify the 'sensitivity' of the switch based on how far you push the cable tie into the switch.



Thanks to efjayel for a the original great tip!

[mrbones]

After receiving the latest cherry switches (with silver tabs and no black lettering) on my Happ buttons, something had to be done. The latest switches have more travel and more clicky noise than I've ever felt or heard in my life. But, I think they were easier to modify. I put a cut piece of small zip tie on the top contact. Super glued in place. It cut the switch time travel down and the button only has a small click. Much, much better!

[jasonbar]

I messed around w/ some paper in a Cherry switch tonight.  I got it to be nice & quiet & have a smoother feel, with a bit of cut paper.

Any long-term reports on how the paper holds up over time?

Thanks,
-Jason

[jasonbar]

Howdy-

I printed out & cut & folded all of Tiger-Heli's .5 x .625 rectangles with the center-line fold.

Then I realized that I have Cherry Happ K-series switches & needed the .4 or .2 wide ones.


Sooo, if anybody wants a free set of a full sheet of the .5 x .525 rectangles cut & folded, lemme know.  I'll gladly accept a $1 PayPal donation to cover a stamp & a walk to the local mailbox.

 

Thanks,
-Jason