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Author Topic: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)  (Read 7388 times)

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XyloSesame

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Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« on: October 16, 2007, 05:30:54 pm »
I really don't want to complicate things as I get ready for my first build, and I certainly don't want to prolong the process,

but

while redesigning my Sketchup model to accomodate some minor changes, I realized that my planned monitor/bezel area is the perfect size for rotating my LCD monitor.

I wouldn't want a fancy-schmantzy motor driven clap-on-clap-off monitor, but it might be nice to have a manual rotation. I'll be mounting the LCD with the stock VESA mount that already has a tensioned 90 rotation; is there any reason I shouldn't take advantage of this?

Now is the time, obviously, for me to decide. Help me. Someone. Please. I feel like I'm being sucked in to the undertow of this hobby with my first project...

So, the question becomes, rotate or no?

knave

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 05:37:32 pm »
It sure is tempting...I've done some playing around with some of the dell 19" LCD's I have laying around and as long as you're cable management is up to it it's cool.  I've even thought of using a disc shaped bezel that will rotate witht the LCD.

But Simple is some times better.  Because of this I'm not rotating....Yet... ;D

XyloSesame

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 05:46:35 pm »
It sure is tempting...I've done some playing around with some of the dell 19" LCD's I have laying around and as long as you're cable management is up to it it's cool.  I've even thought of using a disc shaped bezel that will rotate witht the LCD.

But Simple is some times better.  Because of this I'm not rotating....Yet... ;D

I think I'll be OK with the cable management, and the disc-shaped bezel is what started my brain on this train in the first place.

I prefer simple as well, and want to keep the project it as straightforward as possible. But I also realize that one shot at a cab is all I'll probably get. So it's now or never...

javeryh

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 05:53:23 pm »
I think you need a degaussification doohickey in there of something if you are using a CRT.

gonzo90017

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 05:55:40 pm »
He's using a LCD.

I say rotate. I'm interested to see how you do it. I might do the same. I'll keep an eye on the thread to see what you come up with.

XyloSesame

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 05:57:00 pm »
He's using a LCD.

I say rotate. I'm interested to see how you do it. I might do the same. I'll keep an eye on the thread to see what you come up with.

Oy, so I'm the guinea pig? I've been known to use duct tape. A lot of duct tape. You might want to watch elsewhere...

javeryh

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 05:58:25 pm »
He's using a LCD.

 :dizzy:  Me no read so good.  Rotate an LCD?  DO IT!! 

DaveMMR

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2007, 06:01:07 pm »
I thought about rotating for a bit but then decided to just use a larger monitor (CRT - need to constantly degauss).  If you're using an LCD, then it'd be pretty simply to rotate.   Try it out.

bfauska

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2007, 06:03:53 pm »
If the VESA mount is centered in both directions on the back of the monitor then it should be really simple.  If the mount is off center in either direction then you will want to make something else up, that's not going to be as easy.  I say, if you want to keep it simple but get a reasonable bang for your buck then rotate only if it's a centered VESA mount.

ahofle

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2007, 06:19:19 pm »
This is just my opinion, but to me the biggest benefit of a rotating monitor setup is to get authentic arcade resolutions.  Probably over 90% of arcade games used a standard res CGA CRT monitor either horizontally or vertically oriented.  A rotating CRT setup allows you to have authentic resolutions for all those games (AND the scanlines go in the correct direction!).  The fact that you also get the same sized screen image both ways is a side benefit.  The only benefit to rotating an LCD is that you gain some screen size for vertical games since an LCD won't be running at true arcade resolutions anyway.  This is all personal preference of course.  Anyway it sounds like you have an easy way to do the rotation so I'd probably go for it.

FWIW, I went the larger CRT route like DaveMMR, but looking back, I wish I would have tried a smaller rotating CGA CRT setup.  Horizontal games like Robotron just don't seem right on a 27" display to me.  I also have problems getting the correct refresh rate on vertical games since I am using higher resolutions (and lower refresh rates) to simulate the correct number of lines. 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 06:24:13 pm by ahofle »

XyloSesame

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2007, 06:44:12 pm »
If the VESA mount is centered in both directions on the back of the monitor then it should be really simple.  If the mount is off center in either direction then you will want to make something else up, that's not going to be as easy.  I say, if you want to keep it simple but get a reasonable bang for your buck then rotate only if it's a centered VESA mount.

Good point. I'll check that out this evening...

Santoro

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2007, 07:40:23 pm »
It would be pretty cool to rig up a mercury switch and somehow have MAME and the FE adjust automatically as the rotation happened.  I haven't read up much... does MAME have the ability to switch orientation (NTTIAWWT) via a keypress?

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2007, 09:35:12 pm »
    Rotate!

 Cornchip.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 09:37:47 pm by Cornchip »

gonzo90017

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2007, 12:31:13 am »
Quote
Oy, so I'm the guinea pig? I've been known to use duct tape. A lot of duct tape. You might want to watch elsewhere...

Sounds perfect.  :cheers:

XyloSesame

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2007, 12:33:44 am »
If the VESA mount is centered in both directions on the back of the monitor then it should be really simple.

OK, the VESA mount is centered. Looks like I have no excuse. Time to reconfigure a bit to allow for rotation...

bfauska

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2007, 03:35:00 am »
This is how it always starts.  Simple little changes, and then, boom, you're surrounded in a cloud of dust creating a cabinet like nobody has ever seen.

It's even worse when people say crap like this... "You should probably automate that."

Seriously though, it probably isn't going to add that much work to make the bezel and monitor rotate, and it will give you a much nicer screen for vertical games.  :cheers:

Anubis_au

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2007, 07:25:08 am »
This is just my opinion, but to me the biggest benefit of a rotating monitor setup is to get authentic arcade resolutions.  Probably over 90% of arcade games used a standard res CGA CRT monitor either horizontally or vertically oriented.  A rotating CRT setup allows you to have authentic resolutions for all those games (AND the scanlines go in the correct direction!).  

Ahofle, I couldn't have put it better myself. In fact, I couldn't even have put the point across that well.  ;D

XyloSesame, perform this experiment: Run a vertical arcade game like Pacman on your monitor, without changing the MAME flags, so that MAME is downconverting the game to fit on a horizontally oriented monitor, with black side bars. Ask yourself, are you happy with playing all vertical games like that. Now, change the flag in your MAME ini file so that vertical games display rotated. Rotate your monitor to its vertical position. Is having the same game full size important enough to you to make the monitor rotating in your cab.

My original cab was a converted cab with a 25" screen. Vertical games were fine on that even with the wasted side bars, as the screen was big enough. Now I've bought a 20" for my build-from-scratch, and I want to rotate that. Mainly for the authenticity as ahofle wrote above. But furthermore, on a 20" screen, the pic is too small if you don't rotate, IMHO.

Also, my cab is also my first build from scratch, and I intend to go all out, because I don't have the space for multiple machines like some. If you are happy to build a second, dedicated vertical cab next, then you might decide to not rotate this one.

csa3d

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2007, 10:02:49 am »
I originally wanted to do a motorized rotation system (and still may, but not initially).  I ended up making an adjustable cross brace, hacking the VESA mount out of the LCD that came with the montior, removing the tilt portion of that, and mounting it flat to the brace.  You can see the results here.

My Control panel flips upwards, which allows access to the LCD under the glass for manual rotation.  I figured, in the short term, that the manual method (while less sexy) will be less likely to be damaged.  In my opinion, BYOAC member Edge has had one of the most elegant LCD rotation systems, which is s belt driven mount system he created with a vesa mount, some gears, bearings, and plumbing supplies.  His system could very easy be retrofitted into my design, which is my now plan b (instead of plan a). 

His example as follows:


If you do get this thing designed and motorized, I suspect the following questions are next on your list (as they are still open on mine).

1.  How do you limit the rotation to +/- 90 degrees.  Limit switches?  If you're not using a step motor.. you potentially will have a crooked rotation.

2.  Do you trust your limit switches.. what happens when one day they fail?  (always plan for the worst I say!)

3. Assuming you figure out step 1... are you expecting there to be a magical software solution to KNOW how to rotate the LCD based on the game selection?  This would rock out.. but I don't think anyone has "commercialized" a plugin for Mala (Swindus? Loadman?.. Edge? Fat fingers?) which would I'm guess have to trigger through a printer port to some piece of motor driving hardware.

4.  Speaking of which.. this needs to be fabricated by yourself as well.  I looked around on some electronics boards.. and felt overwhelmed quickly.  How awesome would it be if Team RandyT and Team Swindus got together and made an "out of the box" solution for Vesa mount rotation?  Is the market big enough for such venture is probably the real question.  I'd pay...

5.  Now that you've answered all the hard questions, how does your Bezel work?  There's been the round bezel under a square bezel technique, and an inventive camera shutter inspired design.  I'm planning on having a disk laser cut from a single piece of plastic, and rectangle cut of out the inside disk.. and permanently affixing the disk to the LCD.  Assuming I have this thing centered.. then it should turn w/o issue.  I've not tested this with foamcore yet.. but that's on my list of "coming up's"

So this is all not to discourage you.  This is me kinda talking out loud to another person who is kinda in a similar boat as me.. and i'd love to start conversations which could help everyone out who's tackling this.

Keep us posted on how you are moving forward if you don't mind.
-csa

« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 10:06:33 am by csa3d »

ark_ader

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2007, 01:11:44 pm »
Doesn't it depend on the types of games you are playing?   ::)

If most of your collection surrounds the vertical orientation, that that would be a easy one.  LCDs are indeed light, as in not as heavy as a CRT.  Motors, gears and the guarantee that the mount is strong and stable, is a lot to ask for in a first build.

If your games collection is horizontal then the difference is small compared to having the game rotate backwards and forwards your display, especially if this is your first build.  Those considerations would be benefitted to those with experience of woodworking.

I tried rotation, but failed and nearly damaged the LCD.  To put it an easier way: when you start your build, have this facility as a future option by having the clearance for the display, then test the orientation with the controls to see if there is any impact.  I cannot compare my woodworking skills with yours, but I bet you are like me, and have a strong desire to learn.   ;D

But to be perfectly honest, screen rotation is an option I would definitely miss on your first build.
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

gonzo90017

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2007, 01:31:22 pm »
I liked bfauska's idea.

XyloSesame

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2007, 03:01:54 pm »
I tried rotation, but failed and nearly damaged the LCD.
Nearly damaged your LCD? That doesn't sound good... Mind telling us what happened so we can learn from what went wrong?

I'm moving the rest of my thoughts to my project announcement thread as they're getting more into design than general advice...

DaOld Man

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2007, 03:47:16 pm »
Ok, here is a drawing I promised of a simple DC motor controller.
Opto-isolator Q1 is turned on by the computers LPT port.
Q1 turns on small SPDT relay K1.
K1 N.O. contact closes, turning on CWR relay.
CWR directs current flow through motor to turn it Clockwise.
Motor turns clockwise until limit switch CWLS opens.
CWLS turns off CWR, which stops motor.
When computer signal turns off, Q1 turns off K1.
K1's N.C. contact turns on relay CCWR.
CCWR rotates motor counter clockwise by sending reverse current through motor.
Motor rotates until limit switch CCWLS opens.
CCWLS turns off CCWR, which turns off motor.
Computer output ON= turn screen clockwise.
Computer output OFF= turn screen counter clockwise.
Diodes D1 and D5 and Capacitors C1 and C2 are to keep relays from chattering if voltage drops when motor starts (this may not be necessary if you have a small motor.)
Diode D2,D3, and D4 are necessary to protect the circuit.
Brake Rx is a power resistor, used to brake the motor by sinking back generated current when CWR and CCWR are both off.
Mechanical stops will stop the motor if a limit fails. Stalled motor will blow fuse.
If computer control is not desired, Q1 can be replaced with a SPST switch.
Or K1 can be replaced with a SPDT switch.
Switch up, screen CW
Switch down, screen CCW
Notice also I show an LED in series with Q1. This would just show the status of the computer signal, and is not really necessary..
Brake Rx and fuse would have to be calculated on type of motor used.
CWR and CCWR are both 3PDT relays, current based on motor current.
All relay coils voltages are same as motor voltage.
Power supply is not shown, but is fed into bottom of circuit. (- and +)

Cornchip

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2007, 04:42:13 pm »
  I'm trying to follow along (I'm not electrically inclined).  Q1 is the input that can be replaced with a SPST switch. Is the switch held for the duration of the movement or is it pressed once until CWLS or CCWLS are reached? (making this a single button push or single button hold?). Nice work....this is something I will definitely try for myself.

 Cornchip.

DaOld Man

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2007, 05:15:19 pm »
The switch would have to be maintained, or held.
Turn the switch on, it rotates. The switch stays on.
Turn the switch off, it rotates other direction. switch stays off.
A simple on/off switch can be used to replace Q1.
A SPDT (single pole, double throw) switch would have to be used to replace K1.
A toggle switch would do just fine.
here is a diagram showing the switch replacing Q1:

DaOld Man

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2007, 05:18:48 pm »
And here is the circuit with K1 replaced with a SPDT maintained switch.

DaOld Man

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2007, 05:31:01 pm »
If you want to use pushbuttons, such as Happ, the circuit gets a little more complicated.
Here is a drawing showing the happs PB's.
You will need to change CWR and CCWR to 5PDT relays.
When clockwise PB is pressed, the N.O. CWR contact closes, and seals around the pushbutton. If you release the pushbutton, the relay stays on until the limit CWLS opens.
The N.C. CCWR relay contact is an interlock. That way you cant turn both relays on at same time by pressing both buttons.
If CWR is on, the circuit to CCWR is broken, and vice versa for CCWR.
The circuit for CCWR is basically same as the above.

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2007, 05:50:46 pm »
The switch circuits could also be replaced with a small programmable logic controller (PLC) called a "nutchip".
But I dont see much mention of using PLC's in this board.
What is a nutchip you might ask?
A nutchip is the brand name of a small integrated circuit that has 4 digital inputs and 4 digital outputs. One of the inputs can be used as an analog input.
The chip can be programmed to do a variety of things.
You write the program on your pc, download it to the nutchip via the serial port and you have a PLC that doesnt have to be hooked to the computer to work.
Want to learn more?
Check out:
http://www.nutchip.com/
And no, this is not a joke, and also no, I do not make anything off selling the nutchip or referring anyone to it.
I bought two of these to play around with, and I can see where they could come in handy for robotics or alarm systems, or to just learn about PLC's.
But who knows? With the minds we have on this board, Im sure we could use it on an arcade cab!

Cornchip

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2007, 08:52:02 pm »
 Wow...that Nutchip has some possibilities. I was doing some reading on the website and noticed that 'timeouts' are used for various things like making a LED blink etc. Could that also be used to control a relay and vary motor speed (over coming motor RPM that might be too fast instead of gearing). Also using a single illuminated Happs push button and using an input to cause the button to flash while moving the monitor.

 Cornchip.

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2007, 10:15:48 pm »
Wow...that Nutchip has some possibilities. I was doing some reading on the website and noticed that 'timeouts' are used for various things like making a LED blink etc. Could that also be used to control a relay and vary motor speed (over coming motor RPM that might be too fast instead of gearing). Also using a single illuminated Happs push button and using an input to cause the button to flash while moving the monitor.

 Cornchip.

Controlling motor speed as you mention is called Pulse Width Modulation (PWM).
DC drives use it to vary the time the current is on and how many times per second it is on, thus controlling the speed of a motor.
This is impracticable with a relay, due to the contacts of the relay arcing, and though it may work for a while, it wouldnt be long until the relay failed. Plus the noise (electrical) would be tremendous.
You could use solid state transistors instead of relays (this is commonly called a "H bridge"), and possibly pulse it with the nutchip to vary motor speed, I havent tried that so I dont know if it can be done, but it does seem feasible.
On the nutchip site they show an example of controlling a servo motor, so I think it is possible to PWM a H bridge.
As far as making the button light flash with the nutchip while motor is turning, yes this would be quite easy.

Here is a diagram of how the nutchip would hook up to my first motor controller.
Note that transistors have to be used to switch the relays (Q1 & Q2), because the nutchip's power output is limited.
Also, I think the nutchip needs 5 volts, so a 5vdc regulator will have to be used. (not shown).
You could program the nutchip to turn on appropriate direction when a button was pressed. The button's LED would flash until monitor reached end position, then remain solid on, or turn off, or remain on for a few seconds then turn off. The program could be easily changed, that is what makes PLC's so great.
I think I will use this on my monitor rotation.

csa3d

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2007, 10:56:57 pm »
Wow...that Nutchip has some possibilities. I was doing some reading on the website and noticed that 'timeouts' are used for various things like making a LED blink etc. Could that also be used to control a relay and vary motor speed (over coming motor RPM that might be too fast instead of gearing). Also using a single illuminated Happs push button and using an input to cause the button to flash while moving the monitor.

 Cornchip.

Just to throw this out to all the budding hardware developers, I'd pay for an out of the box solution to rotate a VESA LCD mount.  Seems like there are enough people who've switched over to LCD technologies lately that this might be something to look into.  This solution would contain hardware and software in a professional package equivalent to Randy's E-Ice campain in my ideal world.


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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2007, 11:23:52 pm »
I could build a "black box" circuit but I dont have the means to mass produce them.
I guess I would first need to know the volts and max current of the DC motor you will be using, or is the motor to be included in the package?
I am considering building a rotating monitor in my first cab "Benny B's Arcade".
But I think I will use a 21 inch CRT monitor instead of the LCD.
This might require a hefty motor, or one geared slow.
When I build this new baby, it will definitely employ my rotate circuit, and Cornchip has given me the idea to use the nutchip.
It will most likely be awhile before I get to this project but when I do, of course it will be posted here..

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2007, 01:35:57 am »
Just to throw this out to all the budding hardware developers, I'd pay for an out of the box solution to rotate a VESA LCD mount.  Seems like there are enough people who've switched over to LCD technologies lately that this might be something to look into.  This solution would contain hardware and software in a professional package equivalent to Randy's E-Ice campain in my ideal world.

I second that. I'm having trouble wrapping my nut brain around manual rotation, let alone chips and circuit diagrams. This thread, while interesting, has quickly surpassed what little electrical knowledge I have.

Out of the box circuit with motor included would be my pref, and it doesn't even need to be pretty.

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2007, 08:47:45 am »
I could build a "black box" circuit but I dont have the means to mass produce them.
I guess I would first need to know the volts and max current of the DC motor you will be using, or is the motor to be included in the package?
I am considering building a rotating monitor in my first cab "Benny B's Arcade".
But I think I will use a 21 inch CRT monitor instead of the LCD.
This might require a hefty motor, or one geared slow.
When I build this new baby, it will definitely employ my rotate circuit, and Cornchip has given me the idea to use the nutchip.
It will most likely be awhile before I get to this project but when I do, of course it will be posted here..

I might eventually take you up on that when I get to this section, as at least this solution does help solve some of my rotational woahs.  Like I stated earlier though, It would be cool if "the product" shipped with everything you needed to make rotation possible.  Just screw your monitor into the VESA, mount it on a crossbrace that you fabricate, hook it up to your computer (for software implementation), then install the plugin to the front-end of your choice (MALA) and watch the magic.. impress your friends.  After all, this hobby is all about vanity!  :D

-csa

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2007, 02:18:36 pm »
I think I'm gonna try rotating my 20 inch LCD when build time comes but will probably go manual first.  Maybe have physical hard stops in both directions, a 2lb weight to default to horizonal, and a black pull cord coming out underneath the left bottom side of the CP box (out of sight).  Add a J hook underneath the bottom right side to tie off to and you're all set.

It wouldn't be too hard to automate after that though.  Just use a couple LEDwiz outputs to drive a battery-powered screwdriver (cheap 2 way DC motor) through a buffer.  Have level switches to stop motor action in both directions and use paper clips as J hooks so they will easily bend and let go of the cord if the motor doesn't stop when it should.  QED.

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2007, 07:08:30 am »
Ok before this thread is laid to rest, I thought I would pitch out one more option to people who may not be electrically inclined enough to build a relay or a PLC circuit.

Here is a drawing using a DC motor, two limit switches to stop the motor, two bypass diodes, and a Double Pole, Double Throw switch (DPDT)
At the top of this drawing, I show the back side of a DPDT switch. Notice it has 6 terminals.
To the right is the electrical schematic, which is just a lot easier to draw than the "real to life" drawing on the left.
The DPDT switch is really two switches in one (Double pole). It can be switched to connect a pole to the top terminal, or the bottom terminal. (Double throw).
Each pole switches at the same time.

Switch handle up, left center terminal connects to left top, right center to right top.
Switch handle down, left center to left bottom, right center to right bottom.

In the next diagram, I show the DPDT switch "turned on it's side".
(Left of the diagram is top of the switch)

I wire the top left terminal to the bottom right terminal. I wire the top right to the bottom left. (This forms an "X" on the switch's terminals.)
I then wire power supply negative to top right terminal, power supply positive to top left terminal.
The motor wires to the center terminals.

When you flip the switch, it reverses the current flow through the motor.
Switch up, motor turns clockwise (CW), switch down, motor turns counter clockwise (CCW).
Pretty simple huh?

Now we need limit switches to stop the motor from turning when the monitor reaches the correct position.
I have added two limit switches, both are normally closed.
The CWLS switch opens when the monitor reaches the end of clockwise rotation.
The CCWLS switch opens when the monitor reaches the end of the counter clock wise rotation.

You will also notice two diodes.
These diodes provide a reverse path for the current to flow, when the limit switches are open.

Follow the center diagram. I have drawn a red line to denote negative current flow to the motor, and a blue line to denote positive current flow from the motor.
When the switch is turned to the up or clockwise position, Current flows from the negative power supply, through the right side of the switch, through the CWLS switch, through the motor. Now the line turns blue and the current flows through diode D2 (Because the CCWLS is open until the motor starts to turn), through the left side of the switch, back to power supply positive.
The motor turns until CWLS opens, breaking the circuit and stopping the motor.

Now we flip the switch to "down" to turn the motor CCW.
The current now flows from negative through the left side of the switch, down through CCWLS, up through motor, turning it CCW.
The current flows out of the motor through D1 (remember CWLS is open at start, so D1 provides and alternate path),  around through the right side of the switch, back to power supply positive.
Motor turns CCW until CCWLS opens.

This is just about as simple and cheap way of reversing a motor that I can think of.
It does have its drawbacks though. It is not nor can it be made automatic. (My goal).
Plus you will have to mount a switch somewhere. It will most likely be a "bat handle" switch and wont match your others, although you could hide it.
Also, the switch, the limit switches, and the diodes must all be rated to handle the current of the motor. Also, motor braking cannot be applied, so mechanical stops become a must have thing. (Although I would use them in any design anyway.)

Ok, I'm getting off my soap box now.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 07:11:28 am by DaOld Man »

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2007, 10:55:59 am »
   Simply the best info yet posted on this topic thus far. This DPDT design is almost exactly what I did for my machine. One thing  (perhaps small) that I did not do is install the diodes. I understand the reason a diode is used (current only flows one direction) but not in this application unless it has something to do with the switch design itself (more contact points than a standard DPDT) making diodes unnecessary. Are diodes still a possibility here? I used an Allen Bradley surplus part from a panel at work #800T J631 that has a spring return to center and reversed contacts either side of center. It hides nicely under the front of the CP with the use of a custom bezel.

 http://www.westburnedirect.ca/alberta/Assets/prodtec/Elec/381.pdf

 Cornchip.

 

« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 11:13:13 am by Cornchip »

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2007, 12:03:40 pm »
Nice looking setup there cornchip! Cool video too. :applaud:
I used the diodes in my drawing to allow reverse current to pass around the opened limit switches.
The diodes have nothing to do with the DPDT switch.
Its just that with my drawing, you flip the switch to one position, it stays in that position.
The monitor turns until it opens a limit switch. The limit switch opening stops the motor.
Now when you flip the switch to rotate in the opposite direction, the motor wont start because the first limit switch is still open.
Here is where the diodes come into play.
Since the current is flowing in the opposite direction, the motor starts because the diode allows the current to flow around the open limit switch.
The limit switch closes as soon as the monitor rotates off the stop, but the diode is necessary to allow the motor to start turning.
In your spring return to center switch, limits are not needed, so diodes are not needed, however if someone held the switch after the monitor has reached its mechanical stops,
(I'm assuming you have some sort of mechanical stop), damage could be done to the motor by trying to run it when it cant turn anymore.
In this case you may still want to use limit switches, and the easiest way to handle those are using the diodes IMHO.
BTW, the DPDT switch is doing the same thing as the two relays CWR and CCWR do in my first drawing.

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2007, 12:56:44 pm »
 Ok...it is the difference in the switch (I have limits also making this a crash free design). When I reach either limit switch my power is cut to the motor if the key is held. Release the key to center and all power is removed. Flip the key the opposite way and the other closed limit will allow travel back to that limit. If I stop the rotation half way through I can always go back as both limits will be closed. The switch design is 'interlocked' preventing a ground out.

 Cornchip.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 01:04:24 pm by Cornchip »

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2007, 01:44:02 pm »
Looks good.
Do you have a schematic, or wiring diagram?

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Re: Complicated Diversions (Rotating Monitor, Yes or No)
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2007, 04:40:38 pm »
  I might need your help cleaning up my diagram. The switch I have has 8 connects. I think it is really just two identical double contactors that move at the same time (reversing only the + and - and both limits). I have no idea how to draw the switch but I'll give it a try. When I have it I will scan it to JPG.

 Cornchip.