POLL: Would you like to see a Linux forum?

[Major Rock Hardy]

I know there are many of you out there who use Linux.  Some of you use it for your arcade cabs - I sure do.  Saint has asked me to post this poll to see how much interest there would be for a Linux-related forum.  I would suggest moving a few of my threads there (assuming that's possible) and future linux-related stuff would obviously go there.

For those of you who chose "What is Linux?" and are interested, here are some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/
http://www.gentoo.org/
http://linuxemu.retrofaction.com/
http://www.anti-particle.com/wahcade.shtml
http://www.mameblog.com/2003/06/linux_os.html (this guy's machine is what got me into this hobby)
... the list goes on

I have definitely heard arguments about what is better: Linux vs. Windows.  This is not intended to become one of those threads.

Arguments for/against having a Linux forum:
PRO:
1. Linux is a different OS with different problems/solutions than those in Windows
2. Linux-related threads often get buried quickly in other forums
3. Linux is open source (just like MAME itself) and very hack-able so there are many opportunities for HOW-TOs.

CON:
1. I can't think of any.

If you use Linux (for any reason) please feel free to expand the above list(s) or provide more links by posting below.

Thanks,
MRH

[shmokes]

I think that this is the first "Would you like to see . . . " poll that I have actually responded with a yes.  Linux itself, being an operating system, is as complex as anything that is done here.  It's also socially important, IMO, as an open source threat to the MS stranglehold on the market.  I have been wanting to get into Linux for a long time, and I've already downloaded it and plan, when I get a few spare hours, to set up a triple-boot system so I can start seriously using Linux.

I know that there are Linux support forums all over the internet, but this is MY forum.  My friends are here and when I have a question about anything, be it MS networking, ripping/encoding DVDs, whether certain laws or religions are detrimental to society, this is where I ask those questions.

I think a lot of people are interested in Linux, but the prospect of taking on something so daunting as abandoning the familiarity of Windows and relearning another OS from scratch, with all the thousands of minor new tasks to relearn like how to set up a printer or how to check/set IP addresses, etc., etc., is overwhelming.  Everyone knows that there are Linux forums where help can be had, but the prospect of going to a brand new forum, where you don't know anybody and are a "noob" asking stupid questions, and "why can't you learn how to use the ---smurfing--- search function before asking questions that have been asked a thousand times?" can be equally daunting.

So, long story short, I think it's a good idea and I think there is enough interest, not to mention enough Linux fanatics, to keep it from becoming a stagnant board with no activity. 

[Major Rock Hardy]

I think that this is the first "Would you like to see . . . " poll that I have actually responded with a yes. 

I appreciate the vote of confidence shmokes!  (you must be the other "yes" vote ) I also echo the other points you made.  I have been using Linux for over 10 years now but I still learn Linux tricks from posters here on this forum.

MRH

[TOK]

I gave this a YES, but a tentative one.

Since Windows XP is so robust, the only thing that appeals to me about Linux is that its free, which would be great for cabinet use. Among the things that don't appeal to me are that I've tried it (Mandrake) and wasn't that impressed with boot/shutdown times that were longer than Windows and that there really wasn't a good front end for it. I also had a heck of a time trying to get the NVidia beta drivers installed on it.

I'll confess my technical issues would been fixable had I spent more time learning, but until there is a front end like MaLa, I'm not really interested in putting in that time. A user base in this forum may have been able to get me right through the technical issues I had.

[Kaytrim]

If there was a forum dedicated to Linix development then the front ends might start coming out of the woodwork.  Of course some of the current front ends could be easily ported.  I am not an expert by any means on Linix or program conversion to said OS.  But I think it is doable.


TTFN
Kaytrim

[saint]

* saint lurks and watches...

[ChadTower]

Not really... while it's nice, it's only a small aspect of some cabinets, and really isn't a large enough topic (relevant to cab building) to have a whole section.

[shardian]

Not really... while it's nice, it's only a small aspect of some cabinets, and really isn't a large enough topic (relevant to cab building) to have a whole section.

The point that is trying to be made is that if a permanent forum was made for linux in relation to pc arcade gaming, would it have the effect of increasing the usage of linux.
Definitely an interesting discussion. As for me, I'm happy using windows and dos. I have enough stuff on my plate without adding another OS.

[ChadTower]

I saw the suggestion.  I don't really think it would increase the usage of linux until people started making packages and/or installs that are linux only.  A person who doesn't know linux now isn't likely to try to learn it to get a cab up and running unless there is a compelling reason.

[shardian]

I saw the suggestion.  I don't really think it would increase the usage of linux until people started making packages and/or installs that are linux only.  A person who doesn't know linux now isn't likely to try to learn it to get a cab up and running unless there is a compelling reason.

Hence the reason for a forum - to increase the amount of research going into linux emulation.

[shardian]

...Side note: An all-in-one disc that installed a trimmed linux build, a MAME emulator, and a decent front end would be very interesting indeed.

If that were the case, then I would be all in for a linux forum.

[ChadTower]

Hence the reason for a forum - to increase the amount of research going into linux emulation.

Right, but just slapping a forum out there doesn't motivate research on its own.  It would have to be a project based forum - for the type of RPM based install we're poking at here.  Or something similar.  If there's one thing we've demonstrated over and over here is that putting up a forum section does not guarantee much more than a new forum section.

[Kaytrim]

I just did a search for 'Linux' on the forums and there was 25 pages of posts relating to the one word.  There is definitely talk about the OS.  I know of one guy working with Randy for Linux versions of his software and drivers.  I understand that Linux is not used as much as DOS and WinXP.  The only only real hurdle that I am aware of is the lack of Front End development.  MAME is written in C++ so it should be easy to compile on a Linux box.  I don't know if there is a DirectX version for Linux that would be another hurdle as MAME seems to use it.

These issues would be best served IMHO by a separate forum.  This will give all the Linux gurus a central place to form the necessary think tank to deal with these issues.  As well as a single point to disclose the necessary information to the general public.  I know that the information is out on the net if a person wants to take the time and energy to look for it.  Most of us don't

TTFN

[Major Rock Hardy]

Hmmm...

A person who doesn't know linux now isn't likely to try to learn it to get a cab up and running unless there is a compelling reason.

CT, I might have agreed w/ you except for this:

... I have been wanting to get into Linux for a long time, and I've already downloaded it and plan, when I get a few spare hours, to set up a triple-boot system so I can start seriously using Linux.

I know that there are Linux support forums all over the internet, but this is MY forum.  My friends are here and when I have a question about anything, be it MS networking, ripping/encoding DVDs, whether certain laws or religions are detrimental to society, this is where I ask those questions.
...

So CT- shmokes might look to this Linux forum for help extending his hobby of BYOAC'ing to include a hobby OS. 

And as for a compelling reason?  What doesn't compel you might compel others.  How about an OS kernel you can strip down and recompile and test yourself so you can make it run as lean as you want.  (this is very easy in Linux - seems much more complicated than what is discussed in this thread about stripping down XP: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=59373.0)

Also, maybe a complete programming environment from the get-go (granted, this is only true for some Linux distros, not all) so you can hack the MAME source code (if you want, like suggested by uRebelScum here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=48679.msg474066#msg474066), then just type "make install" and you're done... or write your own programs in C/Perl/Python to do whatever you want (like beernut did here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=70738.msg725497#msg725497) or control LCD displays or a solenoid for a QBert banger or to email you game play statistics however often you like.

I'm surprised we haven't heard from Elvis, Whammoed, among others... To address another comment:

Among the things that don't appeal to me are that I've tried it (Mandrake) and wasn't that impressed with boot/shutdown times that were longer than Windows.

Mandrake (if I'm not mistaken) is a quite heavy out-of-the-box linux distro.  In other words, a whole lot of crap is installed that you don't need for an arcade machine.  There are several linux distros that focus on installing only what you need.  Gentoo for one (what I use).  I do have a dual boot XP/gentoo linux box and linux smokes windows by far for boot times.

...Side note: An all-in-one disc that installed a trimmed linux build, a MAME emulator, and a decent front end would be very interesting indeed.

If that were the case, then I would be all in for a linux forum.

Right, but just slapping a forum out there doesn't motivate research on its own. 

I agree with that.

It would have to be a project based forum - for the type of RPM based install we're poking at here.

I think an all-in-one install CD sounds like a good project - we'll have to look into the MAME license to see if it can be bundled like that.  I think that would make a good sticky for the forum.  There was some work done (in Germany?) that got a sticky in the software forum (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56385.0), but I'm not sure the current status. 

I know my first experience with Linux was with an install disk (granted, before the days of broadband internet to the home) so I could screw around w/ it - so the all-in-one install CD might be a great way for others to get into the Linux hobby.  However, most linux users tend to become the install-it-and-tweak-it-yourself type - which is why I think it marries well with the DIY attitude on the Build YOUR OWN Arcade Controls forum. 

[ChadTower]

So CT- shmokes might look to this Linux forum for help extending his hobby of BYOAC'ing to include a hobby OS. 

shmokes is an IT professional that could do it with or without a BYOAC forum.  The fact that he hasn't is more telling than his comments that he has thought about it.

Either way, I used to be a Red Hat certified Linux admin.  I have no problems with Linux or using it in cabs and do think it is the right direction to be taking a lot of new software development.

What I don't see, however, is the need for a BYOAC forum on it.  There are plenty of other forums that would suit it better.  This isn't a MAME forum, IMO, and we would be well served keeping the IP minefield of MAME bundles something that is developed elsewhere.  When they get that done and they need advice on where to put that bundle, they can come here and get all the help they need.  Just because it is a useful concept doesn't mean it has to be done at BYOAC.

[Major Rock Hardy]

What I don't see, however, is the need for a BYOAC forum on it.

vote of "no" counted for ChadTower.

Just because it is a useful concept doesn't mean it has to be done at BYOAC.

I hope it will be at least as useful to the BYOAC community as is this forum on Drinking, Knitting & Boating:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=38.0

 

[Chris G]

I hope it will be at least as useful to the BYOAC community as is this forum on Drinking, Knitting & Boating

Blasphemy!   

[elvis]

What I don't see, however, is the need for a BYOAC forum on it.  There are plenty of other forums that would suit it better.  This isn't a MAME forum, IMO, and we would be well served keeping the IP minefield of MAME bundles something that is developed elsewhere.

By that logic, any subforum not directly related to "arcade controls" should be scrapped.  Including the software forum.

I think a Linux-specific forum is more than worthy.  Linux as a target OS for home cabinet builders is becoming quite popular thanks to both it's price point and near-infinite configurability, and with the learning curve itself being quite high, a dedicated forum would help a lot of people, I'm sure.

For the record, I am a Linux network/systems administrator and security consultant.  I've been using various Linux distros as my primary OS of choice for both server and desktop for just a pip over 10 years now.  My two MAME cabinets and MythTV/Emulation machine all run Linux, and I've helped a great deal of people build similar systems for themselves.  A dedicated forum here I think would limit the amount of repeat questions as topics get lost and pushed to later pages like they do in the generic "software" forum.

[ChadTower]

By that logic, any subforum not directly related to "arcade controls" should be scrapped.  Including the software forum.

I mostly agree with that.  A generic software forum, as it is, can handle the inevitable software related requests.  There will be some, that is unavoidable.  But this hasn't historically been a software forum and I prefer to keep it that way.  And I say that as a software engineer by trade.  There are so many good software forums out there - there are no other good cab building forums.

[beernut]

I certainly think that a Linux forum would be a great addition.  I use Linux almost exclusively including on my current mythtv/mame setup.  A Linux forum would be useful just like the Linux htpc forum is on avsforum.  While many many questions and advice are os independent many are specific to Linux and being able to sequester them off for those of us who are interested would be very helpful. 

Case in point is my recent post with my Linux GPWIZ49 code.  Only Linux users would find that interesting and it gets pushed down in the general forum so fast that some Linux users will miss seeing it.

Also, those of you who don't think that Linux has any great front ends should check out either advmenu from the advance mame project (even though it is defunct it is still a great front end) or my current favorite wahcade which is a Linux port of mamewah.    Wahcade is spectacular (just as mamewah is I am sure) and makes running a Linux only cabinet easy and fun.

Now, I am the last guy who would suggest that a Linux noob should take on building a Linux cabinet but what about all of us who haven't the faintest idea about the windows registry but can talk about debian vs suse or what settings for sdlmame work the best for us.  I have no idea how to set up a windows cabinet and really don't want to know but it would be quite helpful to have a place to share advice regarding compiling sdlmame or how to get a qbert knocker working smoothly under Linux (right now I don't know how).

While others could use the forum for discussing putting together an all-in-one mame distro I would use it more for asking specific linux questions and sharing my advice/success stories with other current linux users wanting to get into mame.

My thoughts anyway,
Mark Alston

[Major Rock Hardy]

Case in point is my recent post with my Linux GPWIZ49 code.  Only Linux users would find that interesting and it gets pushed down in the general forum so fast that some Linux users will miss seeing it.

This is the very reason I thought of asking Saint for a Linux forum.

[saint]

One more day for the poll - if you're gonna vote, vote now

[sirwoogie]

My opinion is that if we do OS specific forums, that it go as children under the Software section. If the topic is popular, then I guess we can consider it being part of a major board. I am of the opinion that Linux as a general topic is discussed in 100s of locations, and each is specific to the packaging (Fedora, Gentoo, etc.). When it comes to emulation topics, there is a ton discussed for the various emulators in other forums (most especially in arcade@home and Mameworld). Linux as it relates to arcade controls specifically is practically nil in implementation and discussion.

In a search across topics, only 9 hits come from a search across the entire forum! If you exclude the off-topic boards (EE), I get about 500 hits out of the 725k messages posted to this site (as of this writing). IMO, this should be a sticky topic in the forum, a Wiki entry, and a link to search the forums for linux topics.

In other words, my vote is no.

[missioncontrol]

but what about the Mac guys, won't someone thing of them?

I admit Linux does peek my curiosity as I try to find an alternative to M$'s resource hog Vista, but after going to a few Linux forums in the past it has really turned me away from it mainly because of the attitudes of the majority. And when th O.P. isn't happy with just one "We need a Linux forum" discussion thread and posts another, I fear the attitudes I've seen elsewhere will show up here:


http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71042.msg730702#msg730702

[Major Rock Hardy]

My opinion is that if we do OS specific forums, that it go as children under the Software section.

SirWoogie, good idea!

In a search across topics, only 9 hits come from a search across the entire forum!

I'm a bit confused by this, could you elaborate?

And when th O.P. isn't happy with just one "We need a Linux forum" discussion thread and posts another, I fear the attitudes I've seen elsewhere will show up here

Missioncontrol, I'm sorry you feel that way.  Just thought the "forum discussion" forum doesn't get much traffic, that's all.  I hope others do not feel that my advertising outside of the forum discussion place indicates any attitude.

after going to a few Linux forums in the past it has really turned me away from it mainly because of the attitudes of the majority.

I feel like most of my posts are helpful to others, not "RTFM noob" type of posts, which clearly don't help people.  That's what I really like about this forum is that there aren't very many "RTFM noob" posts.  Which is why I think a Linux forum here is better than a Linux forum elsewhere.  People here really try to help others who are getting into the hobby.

Granted, I get a bit excited (geeked out) about helping others join the "Linux revolution", and this excitement is my only excuse for posting again in the Main forum.  So I hope you and others can forgive this little sin because at the end of the day it doesn't matter to me whether we have a linux forum or not - I am just trying to help people with their cabs and I see the potential Linux forum as a way to organize the help so those who are trying out Linux will have a good spot to look to read relevant threads about the possibilities of using Linux.

[elvis]

There are so many good software forums out there - there are no other good cab building forums.

I understand your desire - confine cab building to arcadecontrols.com, and keep Linux to linux-only forums.

The problem is the crossover.  Where do people who want to build a cabinet with Linux go?  Talk about MAME in an all-Linux forum and all you get is tumbleweeds and crickets as your post gets shoved downward into obscurity by the millions of other people asking how to make their email client work under Linux

Likewise, talk about Linux on a cabinet-building forum, and as mentioned your post disappears under a sea of people asking how to make MAMEWah work.

I wouldn't consider a Linux forum here on BYOAC to be a generic Linux forum.  I don't expect talk about configuring desktops and how to make mail servers.  What I do expect is chat about using Linux to make customised emulation boxes, and possibly even some side banter about CAD programs under Linux for cabinet design.  Not generic Linux talk, but talk specific to cabinet building itself, and how Linux can be of use.

[Major Rock Hardy]

Talk about MAME in an all-Linux forum and all you get is tumbleweeds and crickets

so true... even the advancemame forum sounds like this these days

[saint]

Let's see how this goes...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=39.0

[csa3d]

to chime in late:  I've tried installing Gentoo to use as an arcade OS to bypass the numerous XP hacks to boot right into a front end.  Needless to say, my cab will be running windows.  I had no idea how to fix issues which were mis-documented, outdated, etc.  While having another forum probably won't convince me to make the switch right away, if enough people made the process appear easy, I think a lot more folks would give it a go.  I mean.. isn't that why we all are here now.. to build something that someone else blazed the frontier on.

I say give it a go.  It's gotta be better then the Knitting forum..

-csa

[ChadTower]

And when th O.P. isn't happy with just one "We need a Linux forum" discussion thread and posts another, I fear the attitudes I've seen elsewhere will show up here:

There's even some of that in this thread - though it's not the nasty type yet - but it's here.  The whole "how dare you speak anything but praise for Linux" and refusal to accept that someone would prefer something else without a 5 paragraph rebuttal.  This attitude is much of why I moved away from Linux administration in my career.  I couldn't deal with the community imposed politics all day.

[sirwoogie]

In a search across topics, only 9 hits come from a search across the entire forum!

I'm a bit confused by this, could you elaborate?

That linux appeared specifically in a topic title (not contained somewhere in the topic thread).

[Level42]

Not really... while it's nice, it's only a small aspect of some cabinets, and really isn't a large enough topic (relevant to cab building) to have a whole section.

Agreed

[Space Fractal]

I voted yes, maily because I have created Multijuke to Linux as well (maybe the only BYOAC type jukebox application to Linux)?

It would been fine to move all moved Linux treads into once thread about it, because they are now overhelm the software forum.

[Major Rock Hardy]

In a search across topics, only 9 hits come from a search across the entire forum!

I'm a bit confused by this, could you elaborate?

That linux appeared specifically in a topic title (not contained somewhere in the topic thread).

ah.  Thanks!

[Level42]

Hey, we have 4 empty spots for new subforums now.... ! 

[shmokes]

Why not have a shmokes forum?

[saint]

Why not have a shmokes forum?

Done!

shmokes forum

[Chris G]

I actually couldn't help but execute a quick pause/hover before clicking that one... 

[missioncontrol]

I actually couldn't help but execute a quick pause/hover before clicking that one... 

yeah same here, but then I remembered Saint runs a respectable joint...

[ChadTower]

How much do you want to bet there actually is a lemonparty in there but he wanted to nail only shmokes with it?