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Help with CP design
DaveMMR:
--- Quote from: XyloSesame on September 09, 2007, 01:30:57 am ---
--- Quote from: DaveMMR on September 08, 2007, 12:00:18 pm ---I've got a 25" CP with standard SF button layout and it fits 2 people just fine
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Thanks for the insight and expertise - I've been working up a model with the joys/buttons closer to center to lose some width and it's good to hear that it is comfortable. This design is 34" in width; I'm not sure I could shave 10-or-so inches to get it down to your panel, but I would love to try...
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Oh, I didn't mean to try making your panel 25". ;D I brought it up mainly to assure you that if you need to cut a few inches for any reason (or move joysticks closer), you can with relative safety. The design of my cabinet (scratch-built Centipede design) wouldn't really accommodate an overhung panel. I'm assuming by the design that yours will overhang. Take your cabinet width, add maybe a couple of inches to either side, and that'd be your ideal CP width.
severdhed:
the original panel on my cabinet was 23", i cut the sides of the cabinet and made it 30", that is plenty of room for a 2 player panel with trackball, spinner, and 4way.
beernut:
There are definitely two schools of thought on control panels. Franken and Classic. I currently own a SlikStik CO2 which is definitely a franken panel and am building a classic CP which is 26" for my cabinet which has all the nearly all functionality of the CO2 except for a 2 1/4" trackball vs the 3" on the CO2, and no two player smash tv. Still has a spinner though.
If I were you and I hadn't bought any of my parts yet, here is what I would do. Replace the 8-ways with either 49 ways or U360's this would allow you to eliminate the dedicated 4 way. This would allow you to trim quite a bit of width off your panel right there.
Then, regarding the asteroids layout, remember that when playing you don't really need all five buttons packed together and with mame you can assign any button to any game action. Thus, what I am doing is laying out the controls so that asteroids uses two buttons from the player one controls and three from the player two controls and thus plays pretty much exactly the same and eliminates a lot of clutter on the CP. Buttons 1 and two from player one and buttons 2 and 3 and 4 from player two.
This is also, in my opinion, the best way to layout defender. Player one controls are used for the joystick (and with the U360 or 49way you can hold the joy hard right so that it is very close to the buttons for reversing easily) and reverse and the player two buttons are used for thrust, fire, smart bomb and hyperspace. I use player 2 buttons 2 and 3 for thrust and fire and button4 for smart bomb and button 7 for hyperspace. If you are a huge stargate fan add an extra button by the trackball for use in centipede and for hyperspace and then change the hyperspace button layout above into invisio.
With modern joysticks and interfaces like the U360 or 49 way with the GPWIZ49 it is easy to escape the franken panel life.
I kinda just turned your panel into mine. Sorry about that but at least it's food for thought.
Mark
XyloSesame:
Wow, thanks to everyone for all of your help and opinions. I feel kinda lost as I've never played on a Frankenpanel. They always look so cluttered compared to dedicated/original panels.
--- Quote from: DaveMMR on September 09, 2007, 10:42:08 am ---I brought it up mainly to assure you that if you need to cut a few inches for any reason (or move joysticks closer), you can with relative safety.
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Exactly what I wanted to do. I'm not very fond of extreme Frankenpanel overhang in cabs.
--- Quote from: severdhed on September 09, 2007, 11:37:49 am ---the original panel on my cabinet was 23", i cut the sides of the cabinet and made it 30", that is plenty of room for a 2 player panel with trackball, spinner, and 4way.
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30" or so is my goal. I've got a model in a 29" frame (pic below).
--- Quote from: beernut on September 09, 2007, 11:52:33 am ---I currently own a SlikStik CO2 which is definitely a franken panel
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SlikStiks were a basis for my design and inspiration. I originally modelled mine to mimic the CO2, then decided to take my own route. One of the most obvious changes was losing dual joys for P1 and P2. No two-player SmashTV for me...
--- Quote from: beernut on September 09, 2007, 11:52:33 am ---If I were you and I hadn't bought any of my parts yet, here is what I would do. Replace the 8-ways with either 49 ways or U360's
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I wish I could. I only have partial approval from the wife on this project, so my budget is slim to none. I'm accumulating parts from eBay and the forums; it's cheap Happs for me. Even if I lost the dedicated 4-way, though, I'd still need room for a spinner. It doesn't seem like I'd really save space eliminating a dedicated 4-way placed next to or near the spinner. It would be cleaner, but not necessarily smaller...
--- Quote from: beernut on September 09, 2007, 11:52:33 am ---what I am doing is laying out the controls so that asteroids uses two buttons from the player one controls and three from the player two controls and thus plays pretty much exactly the same and eliminates a lot of clutter on the CP
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If I shrink my panel, I'll probably go with a joystick/button combo for Asteroids rather than the original 5-button layout. Of course, after play I might decide to re-map buttons and lose the joystick control altogether; I like your suggestion of combining P1 and P2 buttons for Asteroids. Also, I was thinking of mapping P2 button 1 for Centipede or trackball games requiring a fire or dedicated button. I'm taking the viewpoint that this will be an ever-evolving project.
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For all of the Frankenpanel players out there: Do you find the P1 button clusters get in the way when using a dedicated 4-way above the P1 controls? Does the P2 joystick impede spinner control or access? It seems like my palm or forearm would naturally want to rest on P1/P2 controls when using either the 4-way or spinner...
severdhed:
my last panel had a similar layout to yours...
i found that the 4 player stick was usable, but it felt awkward being that far back, and the buttons were mildly annoying. if you used your right hand, they werent really in the way, but if you used your left hand, it kinda sucked.
the spinner had similar issues. it felt weird reaching back that far to use it. I didnt have any buttons back there so I had to use the standard player 1 buttons for trackball and spinner games, which also sucked, but it looks like you will not have that problem.
i kept my panel that way for a while, but after several months of playing that way, i found that the spinner and trackball very rarely got used at all...not nearly as much as the 4way stick...so i redesigned my panel to make it a little more user friendly. i removed the trackball and spinner, and moved the 4way stick to the center of the panel, along with 2 buttons. now the 4way stick feels good and is easy to use with either hand. and because of it's location, you can easily use the original player 1 buttons with your left hand, or use the other buttons with your right hand. I am much happier with this panel than I was with the other one. I dont really miss the trackball or spinner at all. The only real negative is that I have to hook up a usb mouse when i want to do windows stuff on the cabinet, since the trackball is gone. and the fact that i wasted a good bit of time doing mouse hacks and building the spinner from an old hard drive.
the top of the panel is 30"x12" the box is 29" by 11" and is made of 5/8" wood. I am gettign ready to build a new box for the panel, i want it to be sloped just slightly since it is level now..and i want to clean up the woodwork, this time i am going to borrow a sander so it doesnt look like crap.