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patrickl:

--- Quote from: Havok on August 08, 2007, 09:18:14 am ---There is no replacement for displacement. Anything you do to your lawn mower, if I do the same - I get more power. You lose.
--- End quote ---
Isn't it harder to get higher revs on a V8 than on a "lawn mower engine".

In Formula 1 they get the same power from a V8 as they did from a V10 because they can make it rev a lot faster.

Havok:

--- Quote from: patrickl on August 08, 2007, 11:52:51 am ---
--- Quote from: Havok on August 08, 2007, 09:18:14 am ---There is no replacement for displacement. Anything you do to your lawn mower, if I do the same - I get more power. You lose.
--- End quote ---
Isn't it harder to get higher revs on a V8 than on a "lawn mower engine".

In Formula 1 they get the same power from a V8 as they did from a V10 because they can make it rev a lot faster.

--- End quote ---

For a street car that is exactly what you don't want - high rpms. I make all my power and torque right off the line, in the 2000 - 3500 rpm range. It's much more "streetable" that way. For a true race car, yes high rpm's are the way to go. It's very easy to get more horsepower to a V8 - just get more air into the engine. With a higher air density, you can introduce more fuel into the combustion chamber, and make a more powerful explosion to increase the output of the engine.

One thing that is nice about such a tried and true combination such as the pushrod V8 design, is that it has been around for decades, and the design flaws have already been worked out. Someone mentioned that they are low tech - which can't be further from the truth. There is just as much high tech involved with designing more efficient components as the latest vehicles. Properly maintained and responsibly driven, I would wager that a V8 engine would outlast a comparable power output turbo, just due to the extra strain involved with generating a higher output from a smaller powerplant.

** Edit **

Note to self: Self - you are spending waaaay too much time in EE...

shardian:

--- Quote from: Havok on August 08, 2007, 12:14:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: patrickl on August 08, 2007, 11:52:51 am ---
--- Quote from: Havok on August 08, 2007, 09:18:14 am ---There is no replacement for displacement. Anything you do to your lawn mower, if I do the same - I get more power. You lose.
--- End quote ---
Isn't it harder to get higher revs on a V8 than on a "lawn mower engine".

In Formula 1 they get the same power from a V8 as they did from a V10 because they can make it rev a lot faster.

--- End quote ---

For a street car that is exactly what you don't want - high rpms. I make all my power and torque right off the line, in the 2000 - 3500 rpm range. It's much more "streetable" that way. For a true race car, yes high rpm's are the way to go. It's very easy to get more horsepower to a V8 - just get more air into the engine. With a higher air density, you can introduce more fuel into the combustion chamber, and make a more powerful explosion to increase the output of the engine.


--- End quote ---

Do you even know what a turbo charger is? I mean seriously, you are saying that to increase power in a v8 muscle car you just increase the air pushed into the engine. That is what a turbo does! A supercharger is normally used on v-8 muscle cars and guess what, it does the same thing too.

patrickl:
You just said that your extremely souped up V8 had trouble with basically a standard V4 with turbo. Isn't the biggest part of the weight disadvantage you suffer from the engine?

That the newer V4 engines use a combination of fuel injection and turbo (and more valves). This improves both torque and horse power. Of course you could do that with a V8, but they don't. they just use the outdated technology which is struggling to keep up with a modern 4 cylinder engine.

The beauty of a modern engine is that you can rev high for a sprint or just drive normally and get 2 or 4 times the mileage of one of those old V8s.

shardian:

--- Quote from: patrickl on August 08, 2007, 01:36:21 pm ---The beauty of a modern engine is that you can rev high for a sprint or just drive normally and get 2 or 4 times the mileage of one of those old V8s.

--- End quote ---

Which is one reason that people still buy American cars with bigger engines - V-Tech, Z-tech...whatever they wish to call it. I'll simplify it with "power on demand" cylinder controls.

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