.117u1 and What it means to control viewers...

[Howard_Casto]

Within the next week or two.  I've made the changes necessary to have it work with .108 and beyond but I've yet to test it.  Also I intend to use the new built in dde to communicate with mamehooker so that code needs to be added.

[Shoegazer]

@Howard_Casto: I'm no doubt blind, but I don't see where there's a way to actually set the analog-digital mapping feature to "auto".  I guess part of the problem is I prefer to use MAME32, though I would have thought there would be a place to turn on auto-mapping in the MAME32 gui.

Actually, from Aaron's post earlier it looks like MAME simply does this inherently, i.e. without even setting anything at all, though it would be great if we were to see which mapping was actually chosen on a per-game basis, optimally within the <tab> pop-up menu, rather than through -verbose alone.  He also indicates there being three built-in maps for 8-way, 4-way normal and 4-way diagonal (ala q*bert) though it would also be great if it had a 49-way mapping for games like sinistar, and could also leave mapping alone for games that don't need it at all, like food fight and after burner.  Perhaps it does?  Maybe someone here that's spent time with this new feature knows better than I.

Shoegazer

[Howard_Casto]

Just to note I haven't sent any time with the analog in particular.  I just, you know..... RTFM!

(Look in the docs folder). 

[Shoegazer]

I noticed that MAME32 does not include the docs/config.txt file (as was suggested earlier) so I had assumed the documentation was either suspended until the functionality/code was complete, or that it wasn't yet completely accurate and was left out for the time being.  In either event I figured it was a "safe to post" question, though I'll also check the regular MAME binary for it.

Thanks,
Shoegazer

[u_rebelscum]

... I don't see where there's a way to actually set the analog-digital mapping feature to "auto".  I guess part of the problem is I prefer to use MAME32....

... looks like MAME simply does this inherently, i.e. without even setting anything at all, though it would be great if we were to see which mapping was actually chosen on a per-game basis, optimally within the <tab> pop-up menu, rather than through -verbose alone.  He also indicates there being three built-in maps for 8-way, 4-way normal and 4-way diagonal (ala q*bert) though it would also be great if it had a 49-way mapping for games like sinistar, and could also leave mapping alone for games that don't need it at all, like food fight and after burner.  Perhaps it does?  Maybe someone here that's spent time with this new feature knows better than I.

Err, the default in mame.ini is "joystick_map auto".  That's pretty self explanatory, I think.   
Not sure how mame32 does it, though; it might not be up to date.

The option -joystick_map is for translating analog joystick inputs to game's digital joysticks.  If the game used analog inputs, -joystick_map is ignored.  There is no 49-way or analog mapping, since those are not digital (IOW, not 4 switches).  FWIW, mame treats 49-way as analog inputs; instead of 256 or 128 or 2040 values per axis, it has seven.  If you want to change the way a stick works in a 49-way game, see if you can, in the game controls panel, change the slope, deadzone, end point, ect (not sure on the exact terms different manufacturers use).

I noticed that MAME32 does not include the docs/config.txt file (as was suggested earlier) so I had assumed the documentation was either suspended until the functionality/code was complete, or that it wasn't yet completely accurate and was left out for the time being.  In either event I figured it was a "safe to post" question, though I'll also check the regular MAME binary for it.

That mame32 doesn't have the file hints that mame32 hasn't caught up with official mame's new options.  New and changed options are one point that mame32 has to be edited to match, unlike most other changes.

It's a safe question, but no one knows much more than what the doc says, yet.    I've only tested it once and glanced at the source.  I want to get into it more, but can't ATM.

[hulkster]

forgive me if this is a dumb question (which it probably is)....

but because of this analog digital thing....will games like Attack from the Planet of Robot Monsters, and Ikari Warriors work? 

[Shoegazer]

Hey Robin,

Thanks for the info - so yeah, right after I posted earlier today I found this:

http://www.mamedev.org/source/docs/config.txt.html

...and way down near the bottom is a very detailed description of the analog-digital mapping feature, written in Aaron's usual easy-to-understand-even-for-dirt-stupid-beginners style.  Which, by the way, is how I feel ATM.  :/

In any event, totally cool.  He really did some great work with this update!  If I understand right, games that use an analog controller will bypass the digital mappings and handle properly provided that you have "ADStick" set to "Joystick".  And if you are right about 49-way joystick handling in MAME, that takes care of my controller wish list (well, force feedback aside).

Actually, it WOULD be kinda nice of MAME32 were updated to reflect these changes.  It would be nice to have the docs within the MAME32 binary, and to have an option to set the deadzone of the analog controller, and to have a way to set your own maps within the interface.  But hey, as Steven Wright said, you can't have everything, where would you put it...?

I'm going to test this new feature tonight, leaving my U360 set to analog.  I suppose the best test would be q*bert since the control differences would be the most obvious. 

Thanks,
Shoegazer

UPDATE: Tried the new MAME built-in mapping features and so far, they work like a dream.  Tried it with q*bert, food fight, pacman, ms. pacman and sinistar - seems to be a pretty good selection for the different settings.  Thanks Aaron (if you're reading this) for such a fine job!

[u_rebelscum]

forgive me if this is a dumb question (which it probably is)....

but because of this analog digital thing....will games like Attack from the Planet of Robot Monsters,

No change here.  You still need an analog joystick, which the original game had.  The difference was Hall Effect sensors instead of POTs, but they are interchangeable in many cases, so mame treating the game as an "analog joystick" is correct.  It's us users that are incorrect when we think POTs are the only way to have analog joysticks. 
(You did mean "Escape from...", right? )

and Ikari Warriors work? 

No change here either.  You still need a rotary stick (or spinner).

[Joystick Jerk]

The multimouse function sounds interesting, but is there a way to set up different pointer speeds for each mouse device attached to the computer? With my latest CP, the pointer speed with the trakball is a little slow, and with the spinner is a little too fast. I'd like to set up independant pointer speeds for each, but don't see how I can do it with the stock MS mouse configuration interface.

[Howard_Casto]

Not in the os itself but you can within mame by adjusting the analog sensitivity.  It's been in there for a while btw, this is nothing new.

[Joystick Jerk]

Not in the os itself but you can within mame by adjusting the analog sensitivity.  It's been in there for a while btw, this is nothing new.

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, I honestly never knew you could adjust that sort of thing within Mame.

[hulkster]

Not in the os itself but you can within mame by adjusting the analog sensitivity.  It's been in there for a while btw, this is nothing new.

k, so  you are saying that by adjusting some things in mame, those games are playable?  maybe i totally misread your statement, but you gave me a glimmer of hope.  and im guessing i could just make a ctrlr file for each game with the special sensitivity config?? 

[Howard_Casto]

No you have to go into each individual game and do it manually within mame.  Why the ctrlr files don't support it is beyond me. I know that the way mame parses the various files it would be difficult to implement, but it seems important enough that the effort should be made. 


You need to read the mame docs man, this is an old feature.  How you could not know of it is beyond me considering "analog controls" is an option in mame's menu whenever you press tab in a game with any analog controls.

[hulkster]

You need to read the mame docs man, this is an old feature.  How you could not know of it is beyond me considering "analog controls" is an option in mame's menu whenever you press tab in a game with any analog controls.

the reason i dont know about it is because i didnt know the official control type name ikari warriors and robot monsters used.  sorry i dont get my thrills from knowing every conceivable control type for every game.  ikari warriors = analog controls    sounds good to me. 

btw, a simple "its in the mame docs, but you just need to set the analog sensitivity for each game in the mame menu" would have sufficed.  but i guess im used to this kinda of crap from you howard 

[Howard_Casto]

btw, a simple "its in the mame docs, but you just need to set the analog sensitivity for each game in the mame menu" would have sufficed.  but i guess im used to this kinda of crap from you howard 

I don't mean to pick on you man, but I'm getting sick and tired of people acting like I've been rude to them when I haven't been.  You para-phrased exactly what I said!

When I said "how you could not know that is beyond me" I didn't mean anything other than exactly what I've said, perhaps you are reading too much into it? 

Analog settings have been in mame for at least 5 years that I know of, and in the tab menu like they are now, so like I said they are nothing new and I honestly don't see how you could miss them seeing as how "analog controls" shows up everytime you go into the menu. Maybe I should have been more clear... analog controls only show up when a game has analog controls, that's how you know you can set them!

I really don't appreciate you mocking the fact that I know a lot about controls either.  I don't enjoy it, I had to do it because we didn't get much help with controls.dat.  So thanks a bunch for insulting me for doing all kinds of hard work for YOUR benefit. 

Surely you at least knew that robot monsters wouldn't use a digital controller?

I'm very sorry if I've offended you, but let me nipp this right in the budd.  (I deal with this over at consoles enough, I don't need anybody starting here.)


I am an honest person so you should take what I say in no other form but literally.  If I think you are a jerk, I'll say "I think you are a jerk!"  If I think you are stupid, I'll say "You are stupid"  If I say something like "I don't know how you could have missed it, that is exactly what I mean.

So I apologize if your feelings were hurt.  To use the same phrase again though, how anything that I said could have hurt your feelings is beyond me.

[hulkster]

ha, well my feelings are not hurt, and im not even sure if its possible for me to be "hurt" on a message board.  if so, then ive got serious emotional issues.  i appreciate your hard work and the fact that you know so much about this stuff...hence the reason i post here...to get answers from the experts.  i never take for granted what other people smarter than me, like yourself, know.  i can appreciate your bluntness in your responses but i just think that  you can phrase your responses a little differently. 

i only "mocked" you because you essentially were mocking me.  i wasnt hurt, i wasnt offended, or off crying some where...but more or less just making fun of you for making fun of me.  you mocked...er...sarcastically responded....to me by basically saying "dude, quit being retarded, the answer is right in front of your face".  well first of all, its only right in front of your face if you know what you are looking at (which i dont).  if someone asked me what type of controls the two games i listed use, analog or digital...i would have no clue.  so anyway, i mocked you for knowing so much about nerdy stuff like this.  if you cant take a little of your own medicine, i apologize and i guess i will leave all sarcastic responses to you because you apparently are the master.

i know my nerdy stuff, and get mocked all the time by my friends.  no big deal because i enjoy it.  you get mocked about this nerdy stuff because you enjoy arcadey stuff, but it shouldnt be any big deal....

but hey, at least i learned where your sore spot is.     but chill dude, i appreciate your help, hardwork, devotion, etc etc etc and i wouldnt have cool software on my cap (like esc wrappers and such) if it werent for you.  so thanks!  but chill.