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87 buttons REALLY neccesary??
paigeoliver:
Other than Street Fighter games, and other crappy beat em ups and Neo Geos how many arcade games actually use more than one or two buttons? I am leaning toward using just 2 buttons per player, sort of in a line shape like this.
o o
The first button exactly fits my index finger, and therefore would be perfect for games like Galaga. The 2nd button provides a little more flexibility and shouldn't get in the way.
Am I missing a lot by not going for the standard "eighty-seven" buttons??? I mostly plan on playing classic games, but I may have friends over who want to play some of the newer stuff (Final Fight maybe?).
Any comments welcome, and needed!
;D
austinrfnd:
The way I figure it man, is that if your building a cabinet, and it's not specialized, why not make it as universal as possible?
I say do the extra buttons, will it hurt to have extra buttons your cabinet?
Ghoul:
It's been a while since I heard final fight characterized as "the new stuff." ;D
This is a commonly asked question, and it's true the VAST majority of games use only two buttons. I think if you do not include a 6 button street fighter layout you might regret it. Look at the games you commonly play, if you really are only playing games that use 2 buttons then just two buttons is fine I suppose.
Remember that if you only have two buttons and you have a fighter-sized control panel to give enough elbow room for two players that the CP will look kind of barren or awkward (unless you do a good job with the artwork).
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 22, 2003, 02:30:05 am ---Other than Street Fighter games, and other crappy beat em ups and Neo Geos how many arcade games actually use more than one or two buttons? I am leaning toward using just 2 buttons per player, sort of in a line shape like this.
o o
The first button exactly fits my index finger, and therefore would be perfect for games like Galaga. The 2nd button provides a little more flexibility and shouldn't get in the way.
Am I missing a lot by not going for the standard "eighty-seven" buttons??? I mostly plan on playing classic games, but I may have friends over who want to play some of the newer stuff (Final Fight maybe?).
Any comments welcome, and needed!
;D
--- End quote ---
Not sure if this post was meant to be sarcastic (and no one else caught it) or not, (given the recent posts on "Are 6 buttons necessary) and "Diamond or square for 4-buttons"
In the hope that this is serious, or could be useful to others, here is some excerpts from a page I am doing on choosing a keyboard encoder, which should help this topic (although it is geared more to modular panels and 4 (or more) player support).
This is basically answering the more general "How many buttons do I need?, How many inputs do I need questions?"
Reality Check
Consider the following when evaluating an Encoder ?
For two-player games, many of the classics used only one button per player (Galaga, Gyruss, Time Pilot, Galaxian, Space Invaders, Mario Bros.). Even more used two buttons per player (Sky Shark, Twin Cobra, Tiger-Heli, (most vertical shooters, for that matter, Double Dragon, Rolling Thunder, and a lot of the horizontal scrollers, etc.) Three button games were somewhat rarer (Gun.Smoke, Missile Command, Blasteroids), but you could spread these inputs over player one and two if required. However, there were a fair number of 4-player 3-button games, and you could play any of these with only two people. There were a few four button games (Defender, Armor Attack, Rip-Off, Star Castle, and some Neo-Geo games, etc.) Of these, only Armor Attack and the Neo-Geo's were two player simultaneous. There were a few 5-button games, notably Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe, Star Gate and Space Duel, and the early Mortal Kombat series. Of these, only MK and Space Duel were two player simultaneous. Finally, I think only the Street Fighter and Capcom Fighter style games were six-button, simultaneous, but it is a good idea to support this games if there is any chance you (or your friends) might be playing them.
There are many 3-player and 4-player 3-button games. There are no 3-player 4-button games. There is only one 3-player 5-button game "Guardians of the Hood" in MAME as a test driver, and only one 3-player 6-button game "Powerpuff Girls", Status unknown.
There are three 4-player 4-button games - Dungeons & Dragons - Shadow Over Mystera, Dungeons & Dragons - Tower of Doom, and NBA Jam Extreme. There are no 4-player games with more than 4 buttons. Super Street Fighter 2 - Tournament Edition is 4-player but 2 players play at any time and alternate. War: Final Assault is 4-player with 6 buttons and a trigger stick with thumb button (8 buttons) but the game had 4 cabinets networked together, so it should be considered single player when designing a cabinet.
There are no 5-player games, however, I have included them in the considerations below, because it may be possible to play a 6-player game with only 5-players present using some of the encoders.
There is one 6-player 2-button game "Hard Dunk (emulated by Modeler and MAME, but the MAME version is 2-player only), two 6-player 3-button games - X-men and JSR Arcade - Second Chapter and one 6-player 6-button game, Clue (although I think that one may be bogus).
In addition, while these games expect discrete coin inputs, in most cases the P1 Start buttons, etc., while present on the CP, are actually mapped in parallel to the P1B1 buttons, so these can be eliminated when planning a CP.
(To be continued . . . )
Tiger-Heli:
In Perspective
The first thing this clearly means is the P3SW5 through P3SW8 and P4SW5 through P4SW8 inputs on the I?PAC/4 are meaningless as defined (they are still useful to have as extra inputs, but they won't be used the way they are named).
The next thing is that we can play 95% of all MAME games with 4-players and 3-buttons each support. So, we need 28 inputs total, plus 4 coin buttons or 32 inputs total.
For the three 4-Player 4-button games, we need 32 inputs or 36 with the four coin inputs.
Next would be support for six player 2-button games with one player missing. This requires 30 inputs or 35 with coin inputs.
Next jump is to six-player 3-button games with one player missing. This requires 35 inputs or 40 with coin inputs.
The next jump is six-player 2-button games - 36 inputs or 42 with coin inputs.
Finally we have six-player 3-button games - 42 inputs or 48 with coin inputs.
Little-Known Factoids
The case for more inputs - Okay, the most complex game (X-men 6P) requires 6 joysticks and 3-buttons each, so 42 inputs. Add 6 Coin and Start buttons and Pause and Escape and you have 56 inputs, which is what the I-PAC/4 provides. So are you throwing your money away on a MK64 encoder? Not necessarily. Consider the following: The I-PAC/4 above supports enough inputs for 6-player 3-button games, but all inputs are used. This means that Player 1 buttons 4 through 8 and Player 2 buttons 4 through 8 are used for some of the higher numbered player inputs. But you probably have these buttons available on your panel for Street Fighter type games, etc. So Player 1 or Player 2 can mess with the other player by pressing the 4 through 6 buttons and making the other player shoot or move, etc. A controller with more inputs allows you to make each key a dedicated button and avoid this.
The (very slim) case for more than 64 inputs - Surprisingly, 64 inputs proved to be ideal for my panels:
P1 and P2 Directionals and 6 buttons - 20 inputs
P1 and P2 Rotation and P3 directionals (combined) - 4 inputs
P3 buttons 1 through 4 - 4 inputs
P4 directionals and buttons 1 through 4 - 8 inputs
P5 and P6 directionals and 3 buttons - 14 inputs
6 coin and start buttons - 12 inputs
Pause and Escape - 2 inputs
Total - 64 inputs.
The only situations you would want more is either a) You want a lot of extra buttons for MAME admin functions such as Tab, Tilde, Enter, F12, F11, F3, F2, F8, etc., or b) You plan to use your panels for console (X-box, NES, Playstation) emulation, which often used 4 player games with 6 or more buttons each. However, in my opinion, these games were designed to be played on gamepads, and you would be better spending your money on a less expensive encoder and buying a bunch of USB gamepads.