Author Topic: Star Wars Cockpit......SHE LIVES !!!!! (Read 156795 times)

ChadTower · « **Reply #120 on:** July 29, 2007, 10:31:19 am »

I wonder if that stuff around the cap was done to repair the conductive paint around the anode cap... possibly from past arcing out of the anode.

Level42 · « **Reply #121 on:** July 29, 2007, 12:41:04 pm »

Mmm, I hope not

Check out other Amplifone CRT pics:

Look at the cup on the right:

Looks like the same gel/kit stuff to me, so I'm not really worried about that......

Man do I want that HVT........I guess the first second after powering it up after it's installed will be REALLY freightening

Almost forgot: big

to Jed Margolin for sharing all that great (Atari) info !!! And thanks for making Star Wars possible

Level42 · « **Reply #122 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:34:16 pm »

Just won a Star Wars orginal operation & Parts manual on E-bay......I forgot to look, but it's for the upright......

Does anybody have one for the cockpit he wants to trade

ChadTower · « **Reply #123 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:39:24 pm »

I have a DVD full of manuals at home... I'll see if I can find it and if it would be on there.

Level42 · « **Reply #124 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:58:42 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on July 30, 2007, 01:39:24 pm

I have a DVD full of manuals at home... I'll see if I can find it and if it would be on there.

Are these higher res then the one's on the net ? (http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/)

In the end, I really want an original one. I've got one for my Galaxian (ebay) and Centipede (was with the cab). Besides being it nice from a collectors point of view, the full size fold out schematics are a lot easier to use than the scanned 1 page one's....

ChadTower · « **Reply #125 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:19:38 pm »

Someone gave me the DVD a long time ago as a tossin on some purchase... and knowing the source, it probably IS those scans.

Level42 · « **Reply #126 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:46:36 pm »

Today was D-day. While I was typing a mail to Mark Shostak of Cinelabs, the doorbell rang and there was the mail man with a parcel in his hand. The HVT had arrived ! Very quick delivery, USPS

Needless to say it took me little time to grab my things and go over to my friend's place where the cab is.

First (acc. to Marks' excellent installation manual) I needed to move CR3 (big diode) to the solder side of the PCB, because on the blue version of the PCB this would be in the way of the new HVT.
I checked it while I had soldered it out of the board, measured fine.

Next I put in a fresh BU406D. Not taking ANY chances

Then it was time to put in the HVT....it took me a couple of minutes and a little, VERY careful bending of one leg...then it was a perfect fit. Soldered all the pins and the wires for the focus and heater, and placed the anode cup in it's position.

Then it was power-up time. One last final check, everything ok, let's turn it on. I was much more comfortable about it then I'd thought, the force was strong

Power up and...yes, we have neckglow !!!!......also, no smoke, all parts stay relatively cool, then I turned around to take a look at the monitor and there it was playing for the first time in......god knows how many years (at least

!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pict1: The two HVT's compared. One is bad, one is good....

Pic2: The moved Diode, easy

Pic3: The Cinelabs HVT in it's place.

Level42 · « **Reply #127 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:51:25 pm »

Pic 1: The fully repaired HV PCB, ready for many years to come

Pic 2: The new Anode cup...

Pic 3:.......need I say more ?

Level42 · « **Reply #128 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:57:42 pm »

I'll put up some video on youtube in a few minutes.....

More pics: What a lovely sight !!!!!

Level42 · « **Reply #129 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:58:51 pm »

2 more pics...

Level42 · « **Reply #130 on:** August 04, 2007, 06:06:41 pm »

First power up (not really, but I was too concerned with other things during the REAL first start-up, AND more excited

)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz5BumhBJ_4[/youtube]

I would like to thank Mark Shostak from Cinelabs for making this repair possible. Without his efforts in getting these replacement HVT's build, this would be one dead game. Also, he is great in his support through mail and very helpful: a big round of

and of course:

www.cinelabs.com

Also thanks to Micheal Kelley, who wrote the fantastic Amplifone FAQ doc. It has helped me A LOT in understanding the problems on the HV PCB and everything else. Again:

Level42 · « **Reply #131 on:** August 04, 2007, 06:19:46 pm »

OK, after playing about a dozen games, I examined the HV PCB again. The resistors are the parts that get relatively hot, but that's probably normal. All other parts feel fine.

I put the HV PCB back in it's place.

I again sat down and examined the screen. For a start: It looks amazing after 25 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes its' been in storage for quite some time, but still....this game saw a lot of action, despite it's good looks. The coin counter is around the 77000 mark (so it earned a lot of money for the operator !).....

While playing, the picture is great.....I totaly LOVE vectors !!!

I had never played SW on a real arcade cab, only in MAME with joystick control (which completely sucks of course). The control of the yoke is amazing and adds SO much to the game...

Anyway, when the game is running in attract mode, I do see some problems with the screen. First, there is a convergence problem in the lower left corner. It's possible that this can easily be corrected with a degaussing coil. However, it can also be that it already has been corrected by the internal degaussing....
Then, there is clearly some geometric problem.....my guess is that that is a matter of replacing caps on the deflection board.
Also, when the letters are displayed, the letters are not completely perfect. They seem a bit "crooked". I also think this can be a cap problem.
Then, the most obvious problem, is that the screen starts to flicker when there is a LOT of text on the screen. During gameplay, there is no problem at all....This again could be caps, maybe even the big blue on the power supply.....

So, I took the deflection and game PCBs out, and brought them home to work on them. They look amazingly good, especialy the game PCB set.

Check out the pics.....

WunderCade · « **Reply #132 on:** August 04, 2007, 06:32:56 pm »

WOW. Brilliant Level42.....absolutely brilliant!!!!

It's like you're giving birth, man...LOL.

Level42 · « **Reply #133 on:** August 04, 2007, 06:40:03 pm »

Quote from: WunderCade on August 04, 2007, 06:32:56 pm

WOW. Brilliant Level42.....absolutely brilliant!!!!

It's like you're giving birth, man...LOL.

Did you see the video ?

Thanks !!!!

Level42 · « **Reply #134 on:** August 04, 2007, 06:55:29 pm »

It's not completely processed at the moment I write this, but a video of actually playing the game should be here soon:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=e2uZ4J09K-4[/youtube]

Enjoy

!

arcadefever · « **Reply #135 on:** August 04, 2007, 07:15:43 pm »

i wish i was there when you power it on !!!!

this remind me the day i power my Asteroids for the first time

great job !!!!!!!!!!!!

i love the video ...

JimmyU · « **Reply #136 on:** August 04, 2007, 08:21:15 pm »

Congratulations. This game needs to be saved.

Level42 · « **Reply #137 on:** August 05, 2007, 01:15:49 am »

Ahhhh, Asteroids.......definitly one of the top three on my wishlist still

Thanks Fever and JimmyU !!

The link I posted earlier of playing the game (well as much as possible with one hand and holding the camera......) was not working I changed it in that posting, but here it is again:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=e2uZ4J09K-4[/youtube]

Sorry about the bright light on the right side of the screen. The cab was pretty near a window and it was a very sunny day yesterday. But I guess the video says enough

OK, I'm not off to Bruno (Darth Nuno's) lair !!!!

Level42 · « **Reply #138 on:** August 06, 2007, 03:34:38 pm »

Looking back at a fantastic weekend !

Repairing the wonderful Amplifone saturday and visiting Darh Nuno's lair on sunday !

Bruno, you and your wife were perfect hosts ! You are a collecting giant !!!! Actually playing Computer Space felt scary ! I was afraid to touch it. Lovely cabinet !!
There were just too many games to play !!!

I really really liked Starblade and the SW Trilogy. I still didn't give Dragon's Lair a serious try, o well.....next time better

Thanks again for a wonderful day, great hospitality and friendliness !!!

I hope to be able to receive you in my gameroom next year !!!!

dweebs0r · « **Reply #139 on:** August 06, 2007, 04:18:44 pm »

Wow!!

I am so jealous! That is awesome.

-D

Havok · « **Reply #140 on:** August 06, 2007, 04:28:09 pm »

Congratulations! Glad to see you brought it back from the dead.

But, you played the easy level on the video... Pansy...

Level42 · « **Reply #141 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:13:22 pm »

Hahaha, remember, I'm just a beginner

And also, I was playing single handed, had to hold the camera with my other hand

Thanks guys.....I've got to get some new caps for the deflection PCB. And I'm thinking about a better way of providing enough amps on the HV-pcb. Those resistors are waisting energy in heat, there must be a better solution. Maybe I can simply use a switching power supply, but I haven't seen many that can deliver both high amps at + AND -24V.....

To be continued

P.S. I guess Chadtower is still recovering from the shock of me getting this beauty back to live ! Before that, we were almost chatting here

ChadTower · « **Reply #142 on:** August 07, 2007, 08:47:09 am »

Haven't been paying attention to Projects the last few days... that's awesome. Great to see that thing running again.

Hard to tell from the pics but if the text lettering is off, but not wavering, I'd guess it's one of two things: a slight issue with the game PCBs or the convergence on the tube. Both are a bit of a pain to track down but totally worth doing. I'd put my task list in this order:

1) replace the power supply filter cap
2) cap the monitor
3) retin the edge connectors on the PCB

If none of those take care of the issue:

4) repin the harness connectors
5) reseat the game roms, cleaning legs if necessary

and then if you still have any issues, start debugging the game board itself.

That monitor is spectacular. Definitely present pics to the Vectorlist for more advice, they're the very best resource on these games.

RobinHolland · « **Reply #143 on:** August 07, 2007, 12:34:34 pm »

Great that you fix it

I see it soon

Level42 · « **Reply #144 on:** August 07, 2007, 02:26:23 pm »

Hey Robin, sure thing !!!

Just saw a nice link on the Vector list. If anyone still thinks an oscilloscope can't be used as a vector game monitor, check this out !!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY_2J3ckCSQ[/youtube]

Pretty cool. Apparantly this has been done by a 15 year old kid, using the stereo outputs of a soundcard...... this could mean a new Mame coming up that doesn't need a Zektor Vector ?

ChadTower · « **Reply #145 on:** August 07, 2007, 02:31:16 pm »

Saw that this morning... the calculations involved in the rotation of that "helix" shape is very, very impressive. That is some serious math, using the voltage outputs of the sound card stereo channels as X and Y inputs.

I wonder what ranges he's using. If it's too far outside of the 12 to -12 range, it will be hard to get it to work on a fixed rate vector monitor. Of course, if he's good enough to do this, he's good enough to get it working in the proper range for a monitor.

shardian · « **Reply #146 on:** August 07, 2007, 02:38:52 pm »

Quote from: Level42 on August 07, 2007, 02:26:23 pm

Hey Robin, sure thing !!!

Just saw a nice link on the Vector list. If anyone still thinks an oscilloscope can't be used as a vector game monitor, check this out !!!

Pretty cool. Apparantly this has been done by a 15 year old kid, using the stereo outputs of a soundcard...... this could mean a new Mame coming up that doesn't need a Zektor Vector ?

That is super kick ass. The graphics that melted into raindrops made my jaw drop.

ChadTower · « **Reply #147 on:** August 07, 2007, 02:42:16 pm »

Yeah, that gets REALLY good a couple minutes in. That is definitely the product of greater processing power than was available in 1984 when the original vectors were made. I'm actually kind of scared at the potential vector graphics would have now if you threw the type of horsepower at it that drives today's refractive reflective realtime texture morphing 3d games.

mcfreak · « **Reply #148 on:** August 07, 2007, 03:10:56 pm »

Man, that is homepage worthy if anything ever was...

ChadTower · « **Reply #149 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:23:12 pm »

Oh my... I may have to play with this when I get back from vacation.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/scopeshapes

BrentRadio · « **Reply #150 on:** August 07, 2007, 05:36:01 pm »

I THINK that the screen flicker with the text is normal. Mine does the same thing, and I have had the monitor boards completely rebuilt with new cap and the new flyback.

Anybody know for sure?

Brent

Level42 · « **Reply #151 on:** August 07, 2007, 05:42:36 pm »

I'll ask this later on the Vector list....

Did you also replace the "Big Blue" in the power supply ?
Could be the problem....

arcadefever · « **Reply #152 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:26:58 pm »

Quote from: Level42 on August 07, 2007, 05:42:36 pm

I'll ask this later on the Vector list....

Did you also replace the "Big Blue" in the power supply ?
Could be the problem....

it could be,
i will just change it... that the first thing i replace in my asteroids

BrentRadio · « **Reply #153 on:** August 08, 2007, 05:22:40 pm »

I replaced the big blue and rebuilt the power brick and the ARII board completly. I'm pretty sure the flicker isn't due to that. I think it's normal.

Brent

Level42 · « **Reply #154 on:** August 08, 2007, 06:20:29 pm »

Mmm, I can't tell, because it's the freaking first time I laid my eyes on SW on a real vector.....

I still think it's a bit strange....Of course, the text requires a lot of calculations and movement of the beam(s)...it could be....maybe I could ask Jed Margolin, after all, he designed the hardware !

I'll still have to recap the deflection PCB, and maybe I'll do the game PCB as well. All these caps are 25 years old now....

If we accept the flickering as normal, there are still some issues:
1) convergence. I'll need to demagnetise. Don't have a demagnetiser, will ask my uncle....
2) geometry. If you look closely at the exploding battlestar on the Youtube video, you can see that the circles are not correct circles but a bit "egg" shaped. Could be a cap thing...
3) the letters show openings etc. Could also be caps. I got a nice list of things to check on the vector list, will work through them and see the results.

Only 2 days of working left and then it's 3 weeks holiday

First week, I guess I will take at least one full day for working on the Amplifone !

P.S. I just realized that I still have to clean the inside of the bezel AND the CRT front itself !!! Simple as it sounds, I know that this will improve the picture even more

Does anybody know a good place to get Low ESR, 105 degree caps ?

Level42 · « **Reply #155 on:** August 08, 2007, 06:53:35 pm »

About the oscilloscope demo:

Take a look what I found on Jed Margolin's site:

QUOTE:
It might be interesting to program a PC to take the inputs from the sound card and display them on the screen in XY mode. Then connect the channels to an stereo FM radio and tune across the dial.

It might also be interesting to program Lissajous figures and play them through the sound card.

And, finally, even today with all the sophisticated graphics that people do, Lissajous Figures are still compelling to look at.

Run the program in full-screen mode with the lights out and you will see why.

Jed Margolin
San Jose, CA
May 23, 2001

UNQUOTE

So, this is a pretty old idea, and this comes from the man who designed vector hardware for Atari !!!

Check out the page where this came from:
http://www.jmargolin.com/mtest/LJfigs.htm

He even wrote a program that creates these figures....you can find it on that page...

......

lettuce · « **Reply #156 on:** August 09, 2007, 05:49:36 pm »

Does the game PCB still have the high scores saved on it?

Level42 · « **Reply #157 on:** August 09, 2007, 06:31:25 pm »

Yeah, good question, it crossed my mind a couple of times but still forgot to check:

In the beginning of the second video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=e2uZ4J09K-4) you can see the high score table. I had looked at it when I first started the machine, and thought that at least the top three were not real high scores, since clearly they are OBI, WAN and HAN. THe other one

Level42 · « **Reply #158 on:** August 09, 2007, 06:52:55 pm »

continued.....

The other one could be real I thought at that time. I had clearly overseen that JED was listed on position 6 !!
I bet all the others are Atari employees who worked on the project (or only test-played the game).....nice

!

I just checked it with the operation manual, and indeed it shows the exact same table as in the manual so the answer is no, the novram didn't save the high scores.

Not a big wonder after 8 years of unpowered storage, and who knows how much longer...(should I complain with Atari ?

)

I probably didn't score enough in my testing to get listed. I was focussing on the monitor much more than on the gameplay...

However I can test the novram from the set-up menu. WIll do so next saturday and let you know.....

Level42 · « **Reply #159 on:** August 11, 2007, 10:12:13 am »

Working on the PCB's now....

I discovered that the cooling gel under the big deflection transistors is very dried out and not forming a complete "film" anymore. Gotta fix that before running the game for longer periods....need new mica plates for that...

I also discovered that I have a damaged trace on the vector PCB ! I know where it runs between....gotta check what it's for.... and fix it

Amazing, cause the PCB's look so good otherwise. The only thing of concern is that the Texas Instruments speech chip has REALLY corroded pins....I guess Texas is not the best place to produce electronics parts ?

I've been doing more surfing and find more and more great info. Check out www.ataricade.com...great site with lots of info....

On one of the news pages I found a link to a guy who simply decided to turn a regular Happ arcade monitor into a vector.....the only real difference apart from the controlling PCB's is the yoke. So he "simply" hand-wound a brand new one !!!!!!!
Check it out: http://www.jrok.com/xfer/xystuff/ This is


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