Why no price guide?

[Jeff AMN]

In most hobbies, there seems to exist some sort of official price guide on games. If there is one for arcade games, I'm not aware of it. In know that there are many for pinball machines, but nothing really accessible for arcade collectors. It would be really nice if such a guide existed to help buyers out and to protect the value of restored cabs for sellers.

If such a guide exists, please point me to it. If not, this is what I'd like to see:

-Price of each game scaled by condition (PCB only, poor cab, fair cab, good cab, mint cab, non-working PCB)
-Price of games in certain markets (estimate at auction, classifieds, online auction sites)
-Price of NOS items
-General guidelines for things that may raise or lower price (harness modifications, dedicated vs. generic, original vs. refurb or replacement parts, etc.)

I know that it would take a disgusting amount of time for anybody or any company to handle this, but I'd pay for a yearly subscription to such a guide.

[Kaytrim]

Too many variables.  Monitor size & condition, Cabinet style, condition, converted, Controls and condition, Artwork if any and geographic area.  Don't forget if the items are even in the cab.

[Green Giant]

Probably cause ---meecrob--- bags on craigslist like to price these as antiques, ie. pacman for 1200.  

Then you get the mamer that wants a cab to mame up for 50.  

And lastly, the guys remaking originals for a profession and selling them globally, no idea on price but probably insane.

Someone would get pissed off.

But an effort by forum members on the wiki might work out.  Maybe a consensus we could all vote on.

[SavannahLion]

Good price guides helps protect your, "investment."

Bad price guides drive prices up or ruin local markets.

I think KLOV is a step in the right direction by attempting to track supply/demand. Something that needs to be done before prices could be figured out.

[CheffoJeffo]

I think KLOV is a step in the right direction by attempting to track supply/demand. Something that needs to be done before prices could be figured out.

If you are referring to the VAPS entries, then I disagree -- they can be horribly misleading and out of date (can't even remember my account information, so you can tell that I haven't updated in a while).

As far as price guides go, I think that vids are too fluid (downward in the past several years) and regional in price for a reasonable price guide.

[leapinlew]

Also...

The market fluctuates a lot from location to location.

[Apollo]

I agree re VAPS I haven't updated for about 3 years and my game boards have completely changed since then also there is absolutley no proof that VAPS members actually have the games they say they do.
Yes I'm sure you do have mint dedicated Tron, Star Wars, Dragons Lair, Robotron, Joust, Defender, Stargate, Tempest, Space Invaders, Galaxian, Scramble, Galaga and Berzerk cabinets....

[SavannahLion]

Is VAPS really that out of date? Shucks.

*SIGH*

I wish I had the time and money to tackle this. It sounds like a fun project now that I think about it. Create a script that scans eBay auctions for prices and queue them up. Allow senior members (based on signup date and forum activity?) to process and verify the queue before entering them into the database (location and pricing would be automatic, the condition might not be). Old prices from last year would carry less weight than new prices this year. Members can enter cabinet prices (along with pertenant information) into their member profile of cabinets they purchased or sold automatically creating a tracking history for specific cabinets. Members who abuse the system can have their entries collectively voted out by group vote.

Users can call an algorithm that calculated prices based on ?? or look at a history of entered cabinets and their prices to spot errant pricings or to watch price trends. Google API to utilize Google maps to see where each cabinet sold/purchase is located.

*SIGH*

But an effort by forum members on the wiki might work out.  Maybe a consensus we could all vote on.

I really like that idea but there's some immediate problems that I can't see around.

The Wikipedia fails with preventing minor edits to their pages. In other words, if I insert the single word "---steaming pile of meadow muffin---" on low-medium volume pages, it won't get discovered for weeks or even months. Longer if I tweak numerical values, like changing a cake recipe that calls for a 450 degree oven to 950 degrees. How often that happens with BYOAC, I don't know.

What's to stop someone from malicously altering a cabinet price of $450 to $4500 to their benefient? Restricting changes to members only is a first step, but throwaway registrations happen all the time.

Then there's maintaining month to month price fluctuations, regional pricing and condition.

An original <insert random game title here> cabinet in say.. Russia or Australia is going to go for insane amounts of money, regardless of condition, than the same exact cabinet here in the U.S. And a glut of cabinets in Houston shouldn't lower prices of impossible to find cabinets in California.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Here's why there's no price guide.

Someone just sold a Taito Crazy Climber, that is missing a door on the front, and has no sound, for $1625 on ebay.
I got my good condition Nichibutsu upright for $350 because it had a bad joystick.
The last ultra-rare Nichibutsu Crazy Climber Deluxe cabinet that I saw sell went for $1050, and was also missing the coin box door on the front.

The Nichibutsu cabinets are the more desirable cabinets, but people paying more than they should for other cabinets makes it hard to have any kind of accurate pricing.

[shorthair]

I don't think that's it. Most involved publications are funded.

[leapinlew]

Here's why there's no price guide.

Someone just sold a Taito Crazy Climber, that is missing a door on the front, and has no sound, for $1625 on ebay.
I got my good condition Nichibutsu upright for $350 because it had a bad joystick.
The last ultra-rare Nichibutsu Crazy Climber Deluxe cabinet that I saw sell went for $1050, and was also missing the coin box door on the front.

The Nichibutsu cabinets are the more desirable cabinets, but people paying more than they should for other cabinets makes it hard to have any kind of accurate pricing.

Speaking of...

I lost my Nichibutsu at an auction for $425. It should've went for much more but the turn out was bad.

[CheffoJeffo]

I don't think that's it. Most involved publications are funded.

As opposed to, say ... Mr. Pinball ?

eBay definitely skews the results and regional differences are more pronounced for vids than for pins. And the lower cost of vids means more newbies, which further skews the numbers.

There is, to my mind, no way to get a solid, universal handle on vid prices, with the possible exception of a ahndful of true high-demand items (say, SW cockpit, dedicated MH, Quantum, etc).

[Malenko]

wouldn't it be slightly more feasible to just maintain a "estimated" value of working boards? Cabinet conditions and specifications vary too greatly, but the only variance in boards is working/non working and revision number, and I supposed wether or not its a bootleg

[ChadTower]

"official price guides" are the beginning of the downfall of any hobby.  We DO NOT want one.

[shardian]

A price guide for boards would read like a baseball card price guide: 1 hundred billion entries at $20-$30, and a handful of keepers that have slightly higher values.

[yugffuts]

@SavannahLion

I had this idea 2 years or so ago and posted it on KLOV, but the interest wasn't there.  I had proposed a DB where users could enter the data on local sales, ebay auctions, regular auctions, etc.  I think the options I had included were:

Dedicated/Converted
Overall Condition (0-10)
Complete/Parts
Location
Price
Where it was purchased (ebay, auction, local sale) -> If ebay, was shipping available?
Images uploaded for each sale so the user can make their own decision.

The major problems I found were:

Condition is subjective
People thought that either:

A) Some ass would put in 50 instances of Bad Dudes at $500 before selling his Bad Dudes (in order to inflate the value for himself). This could be handled a number of ways, but I never got around to implementing them
B) It would require input from a bunch of users to build the DB up to a respectable level, and rare games would almost certainly never be represented.

I had the page layout made, and coded in PHP with a MySQL DB if anyone is interested in picking up where I left off...

[Zeno]

I agree that you can only price boards in working/nonworking condition.  You can price cabinets.

My Dynamo cabinet converted by someone to a MK3 is worth a lot less then an original MK3 cabinet, even if they were both in the same condition. 

Plus, I like finding good deals on Craigslist.  You know, someone who wants to part with a working machine for $50.  If there was an easy price guide everyone and their brother could use, I think prices would go up.

On the flip side, I don't need a guide to warn me not to buy a working Capcom Bowling for $1100.

Just my take. 

[RayB]

The other variable in pricing is that there are vendors with high prices, but offering service warranties.


The problem with VAPS is they started off in the mid to late 90's and all these collectors joined up and entered their collections. THEN, the site crapped out and stopped functioning correctly. Some people's entries got erased. Some accounts got erased, and the long long down time caused more people to just forget about it.

I went back to it just last week and found that my ancient account was still there, but all entries are deleted. To re-enter them, they want us to look up ID numbers in KLOV. I can't be bothered. I have my collection listed here instead:  www.ggdb.com

[yugffuts]

Plus, I like finding good deals on Craigslist.  You know, someone who wants to part with a working machine for $50.  If there was an easy price guide everyone and their brother could use, I think prices would go up.

On the flip side, I don't need a guide to warn me not to buy a working Capcom Bowling for $1100.

Oh yea, that was the other problem.  People that would be needed to make the community effort work typically already know value, and don't want to share it.  A price guide/reference would help newbies more than veterans, and I suppose some 'deals' would disappear.

[ChadTower]

Generally what happens when price guides come out is it makes it a lot easier for newbie flippers to get into the hobby.  People who know nothing about the items start to buy them just because they now know exactly what they "should be able" to sell them for...

[Havok]

"official price guides" are the beginning of the downfall of any hobby.  We DO NOT want one.

I second that!

[Jeff AMN]

Ok, so maybe the price list idea isn't all that feasible, but I would love to be able to have some sort of resource to use to get those guys trying to sell their non-working Ms. Pac-Man machines for $750 to see the light. Ah well...

[shorthair]

Just make everything free.

[shardian]

Ok, so maybe the price list idea isn't all that feasible, but I would love to be able to have some sort of resource to use to get those guys trying to sell their non-working Ms. Pac-Man machines for $750 to see the light. Ah well...

Some people just won't see the light no matter what you do. It's a little thing called denial.

[Jouster]

Sweet!! I got dibs on Shorthair's cabs since he's giving them away for free!!   

Jouster

[BobA]

There was a price guide covering arcade games and consoles.

See Retroblast review http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/priceguide.html