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Author Topic: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards  (Read 5068 times)

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berlincam86

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looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« on: May 23, 2007, 09:45:01 pm »
I have a arcade jamma board i would like repaired. It is police trainer. All that happens is the red and green lights come on and thats it. Does anyone know how to fix this board? I do know a little about electronics so if you could give me something that it could be and what i could check that would be great. Otherwise i would like someone to fix it. Or if someone knows where i could get it fixed please let me know. Thanks.

psik0tik

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 11:08:05 pm »
I do but I live in Florida...Tampa to be exact. It could be a number of things
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berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2007, 08:56:30 am »
How much would it cost to fix?

ChadTower

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2007, 09:02:55 am »

That's like saying "my car won't start, how much will it cost to fix?"

Based on the desc we can't even be sure the problem is the board.

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2007, 09:05:30 am »
Well i thought maybe there would be a flat charge then parts or something.

ChadTower

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 09:09:29 am »

Usually there is, but it's based on labor time spent, when the tech can't assess the board before quoting.

grantspain

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2007, 09:40:49 am »
you need to check your monitor is running and the power supply voltages are present and correct,normally a very quick check is give the machine a credit and if you get sounds but no picture then you need to look at the monitor a bit closer,if you don't get any sounds or coin door lights then look at the psu

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2007, 09:44:24 am »
I have a rig that i use to check boards. It works fine for my other boards but this one does nothing. I bought this board on e-bay and i test them before i build a cabinet for them. I'm Pretty sure its something with the board.

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2007, 09:50:00 am »

If you're that into it, and have built yourself a rig and custom cabs, you may as well start learning how to troubleshoot a board now.  It is the next logical step.

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2007, 09:54:46 am »
Yea Thats true and i want too. but i don't know where to start all those components are so small and i'm not sure how to test them or what to look for. If it was something easy that i could visually see. (hardly ever) I could figure it out.

grantspain

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2007, 09:56:20 am »
when you referred to green/red lights are you talking about the leds on the game board

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2007, 09:56:36 am »
Buy this book.

It will start from "this is a rock" and go all the way though to "you just built a functioning game console from scratch".


berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2007, 09:58:14 am »
Yes its the red and green lights on the board itself and they are both on. I will look into that book. Thank you.

grantspain

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 10:03:01 am »
sometimes the actions of those led's act as a fault code,the manual should have this info

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 10:05:26 am »

Not being familiar with this board, I wonder... does the light of those LEDs at all indicate a good 5v?  Or would they be on a 12v line on that board?

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2007, 10:11:20 am »
Im thinking the green one is a ok signal and the red is a error signal. Im not sure the referance the voltages. I can take a pic of the board if that will help.

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2007, 10:13:59 am »

What I mean is that the without enough voltage going to the line that the LEDs are sitting on, they wouldn't be on in the first place. 

Red doesn't necessarily mean error.  Most power indicators are red.

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2007, 10:15:39 am »
Ok i just noticed that a big IC has a crack in its casing could that be it?

grantspain

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2007, 10:22:12 am »
Ok i just noticed that a big IC has a crack in its casing could that be it?
yes,a very good chance thats the problem-hopefully not a custom i/c

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2007, 10:26:07 am »
Here is a pic. My luck its special.

ChadTower

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2007, 10:30:44 am »
That might be your video driver chip.  Either way, unless this is an expensive board, that chip being cracked makes it a parts board to anyone but a really good solderer, IMO.

EDIT:  what rev is that board?

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2007, 10:33:23 am »
Ill attempt it but where could i get that chip?

shardian

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2007, 10:33:32 am »

That might be your video driver chip.  Either way, unless this is an expensive board, that chip being cracked makes it a parts board to anyone but a really good solderer, IMO.

by really good solder do you mean training an ant to wield a tiny soldering iron? The one time I tried to repair a SMD chip in a PDA docking station resulted in disaster, and it was nowhere near the detail and number of contacts as that chip. ;D

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2007, 10:34:52 am »
Ok maybe i wont try it then. Thanks for the help.

grantspain

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2007, 10:35:47 am »
you would need the correct smt desolder socket to change that chip,does anyone know if that company are still in business

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2007, 10:37:22 am »
1.3 is the revision.

ChadTower

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2007, 10:39:33 am »
It can be done.  I saw a guy do a chip much like that once, but it was very slow and precise, and he was an EE PhD candidate using solder paste and a Hakko rework station.  He ended up bridging more than a few pins and cleaning them up after the fact with wick.  He was also using a jeweler's magnifier headset.

Just pulled this up:

Quote
The main video chip is stamped:

Rev 2 PCB Rev 3 PCB Rev 5B PCB
------------------------------------------------------------
XILINX P & P P & P
XC4310 Marketing Marketing
PQ160C 5380 AJ001 AT001
PC5380-9651 5380-JY3306A 5380-N1045503A
PROTO AKI9749

That is his video chip.

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2007, 10:43:51 am »
Ok its worth a shot to me anyway any idea where i could get a replacement?

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2007, 10:45:43 am »

No, but easiest answer would be a parts Police Trainer board.

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2007, 10:47:52 am »
ok Thanks ill look for another parts board then. You know anyone that would have one for sale?

psik0tik

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2007, 12:49:19 pm »
It's not that hard to solder those on..like he said you just need the right socket. I wouldn't do it with a regular soldering iron you will...I repeat..You will mess it up. I don't really have a going rate like Chad said it all depends on whats wrong with it. Get a voltmeter and put the red probe on pin 1 it should be marked on there somewhere..see where it says u118 on the board right in the corner of that chip that's pin 1. Take the black probe of the voltmeter and go around to each pin on the other side of the chip opposite from pin 1 (with the board plugged in) be very very careful no to touch any pins together..you could blow something up. Also you could wrap a thin piece of wire around each probe end if the tip is to big to touch each individual pin.  And see if you get any variable readings. That's a start :) Those little lights tell a huge problem list..anywhere from a blow cap to a faulty resistor. So just reading the lights without a manual will get you no where. The lights should be blinking in sequence if they aren't then reading those lights isn't going to tell you anything.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 12:56:05 pm by psik0tik »
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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2007, 12:59:39 pm »

A socket is a good idea but it could probably be done without it.  I'm picturing dipping the leads in solder paste, dropping the chip into place, and then using the reflow air gun to make the connections... would that do it?

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2007, 01:01:34 pm »
The lights arent blinking they are both on steady.

psik0tik

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2007, 01:28:14 pm »
Those pins are super close together..with solder paste you may bridge a connection. You could try it but you might want to put the solder paste on with a toothpic or something small and use little tiny amounts. Solder paste has a tendency to spread out. But all in all if you use small amounts it shouldn't wonder off the solder pad.
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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2007, 01:30:42 pm »

I don't think there is any possible way to do it without bridging at least a few pins at first.

shardian

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2007, 01:33:53 pm »
Those pins are super close together..with solder paste you may bridge a connection. You could try it but you might want to put the solder paste on with a toothpic or something small and use little tiny amounts. Solder paste has a tendency to spread out. But all in all if you use small amounts it shouldn't wonder off the solder pad.

Hence my disastrous experience.

psik0tik

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2007, 01:37:25 pm »
Yeah I'm sure you will bridge a few..all in all it's going to be a pain in the ass but if you have a steady hand and patience you may be able to do it. Just follow the golden with solder paste "a little goes a loooong way"


As for the chip I'll call around and get you in touch with someone that's got one.
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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2007, 01:41:35 pm »

What is the value of this board?  Is it even worth the trouble?

psik0tik

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2007, 01:44:29 pm »
It's this board..they go for around 200 to 300..by the way you didn't mess with the dip switches did you?

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2007, 01:46:31 pm »
I've seen several police trainer boards go for around $100 on ebay.

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2007, 01:49:28 pm »

Yeah, that chip is by far the worst thing on that board to try and replace.

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2007, 01:51:56 pm »
Yep that looks like the board i have and i havent messed with the dipswitches. I paid $50 for mine and i cant find anymore at all on e-bay.

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2007, 02:04:44 pm »

Yeah, that chip is by far the worst thing on that board to try and replace.


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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2007, 02:10:08 pm »

I mean, really, that chip is harder than the other stuff.


psik0tik

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2007, 02:59:54 pm »
Then there ya go it may be cheaper to buy another off of ebay. Withthe chip and cost to have a new chip soldered on it may be over 100.00.
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berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2007, 03:01:09 pm »
yep ill be looking for another on e-bay.

psik0tik

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2007, 03:02:47 pm »
Or look in buy/sell/trade on here and ask if anyones got one..it may be safer than buying on ebay. And you may get it a litter cheaper or may be able to trade some stuff out.

Thats an idea...Saint should set us up our own little auction thing.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 03:04:20 pm by psik0tik »
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berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2007, 03:39:29 pm »
I will try that.Thanks.

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2007, 07:31:16 pm »
I have a fully working police trainer board sat in my bits box, I would say make me an offer via PM but I suspect that shipping it would be a deal killer as I am in the UK

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2007, 09:19:16 pm »
If you want some more insight into soldering that thing down, I can offer my experience (yeah, I've soldered stuff like that).  The process is generally very time consuming and tedious, but tends to work well.  If that's the 0.5mm pitch, that's the toughest kind, but they're doable.

A temp controlled iron with a decent tip is a must for this, but you don't need to go incredibly fancy and get a top of the line Metcal.  Hot air helps, but isn't required.  I use a Weller WESD-51.  Set your temp reasonably.  You want it hot enough to flow solder rather quickly, but not so hot that you're burning the board up.  I usually stick to between 300-350C.

Getting the old chip off is easy.  Just take a sharp knife and shear all the pins off of the package, being very careful not to cut into the board itself.  Then take your iron and "wipe" the leads off the pads.  Be careful that you let the lead/pad warm up before applying any lateral pressure, otherwise you'll tear the pad off the board (and that is not easily repaired at all).  I've had good luck intentionally getting the leads to stick to my iron, then wiping the iron on the sponge to remove the leads.

To solder down chips like that, I generally flux the row of pads and drag solder, then clean up the excess flux and use solder wick to remove bridges.  Basically, you apply flux to the bare board along all the pads not worrying much about where it goes since the soldermask will usually keep most of the solder in the right place.  Position the chip (this is BY FAR the hardest part) and tack down the corners.  Then you get a SMALL "blob" (just a little drop) on your iron and drag it gently along the very edge of the lead/pad interface.  The flux will suck the solder in and form the joint.  With a little practice, you can get the angle on your tip and your drag speed just right so that you won't form too many bridges.  You'll have to back off and apply some more solder to your iron tip frequently (the people who are really good at this can feed the solder in as they drag).

You'll have some bridges, so clean up with solderwick, then use either flux remover or simple rubbing alcohol to remove the excess flux (there will be tons) before it dries.  A visual inspection (possibly with extensive magnification) for bridges is usually more effective than attempting to electrically test.

1-0.8mm pitch is really easy with this method, but 0.5mm pitch can get a bit tough.  If you want, you can also try reflowing, but you'd need a stencil to get the solderpaste on cleanly enough to prevent bridges.  Reflowing does make positioning easier as the surface tension of the solder/flux tends to help center the chip on the pads.

Suffice to say, if you have trouble soldering big stuff, this probably isn't even worth trying - get somebody else to do it.  If you mess up, you'll likely destroy the board and/or chip in the process.

berlincam86

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2007, 09:23:27 pm »
Sounds good but the problem is i cant find a new chip. Any ideas where i could get one?

MonMotha

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2007, 01:28:56 am »
Heh, good point - I didn't really address that part.  The easiest way to find one would be to take it off another board, hence people recommending you find a non-working one "for parts". 

However, removing a chip like that without destroying it is even harder than soldering it down.

I've heard very good things about "ChipQuik" desoldering kits.  They come with a very low temp solder that you gradually replace the existing solder with (by wicking almost all of it out then adding new and repeating a few times).  Eventually, you'll get to where you can get the whole thing to flow at once with a simple hot-air soldering tool, and you use forceps to just lift it off the board.  These kits aren't overly cheap, though, at around $35-55 at Fry's or online.  You'd probably need a hot-air gun for this, though a cheap heat gun on low might suffice in a pinch if you're cheap.

Of course, all that is much easier said than actually done.  I've never had to attempt something like that, so I can't really say much.  Figure you will at least somewhat damage the board you're removing the chip from due to the heat, but you shouldn't care too much if the board is otherwise non-functional.

The rule of thumb is that you can either remove the chip in one peice while toasting the board, or you can remove the chip in an unusable state without damaging the board, but not both.  Trying to do both usually results in damaging both parts.

Taking the above rule to the extreme, I have heard of people cutting the board around the chip of concern, then mounting it upside-down in a toaster ovenwith a tray right below to catch the chip.  You then heat the board to the point of reflow and hope that everything reflows at about the same time (hint: it usually doesn't).  If you get really lucky, the chip just falls off the board.  If you're not lucky, the chip partially falls of, bending a bunch of the pins on the part that hasn't reflowed yet.

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2007, 07:58:55 am »
Sounds like fun either way. Ill just try to find a cheap board that that chip works in and tranfer everything else. To the guy that has one i sent you a pm let me know if you got it.

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Re: looking for someone that repairs arcade boards
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2007, 03:04:23 pm »
Sounds good but the problem is i cant find a new chip. Any ideas where i could get one?


Those custom SMT IC's are impossible to source.   I've got a whole box of different boards with bad custom's (mostly damn Konami boards) that I've relegated to parts board duty.

Good rule of thumb, bad SMT custom IC's = easier/cheaper to find a working board.   Trust me, I do board repairs and even I won't bother with these for my own route machines!!!


D