How 'green' are you?

[polaris]

just as long as you dont fall for the silly mistakes like turning the heating down when your too hot, always remove clothing first.
have you considered a second larger ac unit and possibly even a second oven in the garage maybe, i know its costly but you must be prepared to make tough choices if your gonna do any good.
stay away from those nonsense expensive A rated appliances too.

[Howard_Casto]

I would like to point out that that day I get married and sign away half of my possessions to someone I'll eventually get sick of is the day I've lost it.  Marriage is NOT the genetic drive of the male... sex is.  We are wired to plant our seed with as many women as humanly possible.  Several thousands of years of evolution have put this drive into us.  The "social engineering" of the past 300 or so years cannot override that.  So if by "something wrong" you mean they are smarter than the average stupid drone and choose not to fall into that trap then yes, their is really something wrong with them.  The divorce rate is sky high.... cheating on your spouse is so common that it's almost expected in some circles.  All of this points to the fact that marriage is an unnatural act.

Getting back on topic.....

The thing about being green is i's more of a way of thinking than an actual act.  When I do things from day to day I am conscious of the energy I'm using and try as much as possible not ot be wasteful.  When I purchase a new car, new light bulbs or anything of that nature I think the same thing and that mindset effects my decisions.  On the other hand, there's conservation and then there is what I like to call "being a crazy hippie."  I buy primarily florescent bulbs because they are reasonably priced and they reduce my energy consumption.  I do NOT buy hybrid cars because they are some made up b.s. by the auto/oil industry designed to distract you to the fact that sticking a redundant gas engine in an electric car negates any cost/energy benefit due to the extra wieght.  I don't have a bank of solar panels on my roof because they don't work well yet and they are very expensive.  When they get better I will though.  I walk to near by places. The walking is good for me and I don't mind, but if it's far enough away to where I do mind, ---my bottom--- is taking the car.  I don't buy hummers, pickup trucks or suvs, because they are a ridiculously inefficeint form of transportation unless you actually need to haul around 10 kids, or a piece of plywood every day.  On the other hand, you won't see me in a ford focus either because I like to drive without my knees hitting my stomache. 

Long story short, there isn't a whole lot you can do right now, but it is important that you do what you can.  it is also important that you pester your local politicans to do more because unfortunately, things like global warming aren't going to be solved by the indivdual alone as industry pollutes more than you could if you tried. 

[danny_galaga]

i actually bought a packet of two 11w wattsaver globes (equivalent to 60w  each incandescent). only two just to see which fixtures they will fit in. looks like i can replace 5 globes. so thats about 300w down to 55 or so with almost no effort! really though, if i just replaced my house mates light we'd half our bill!

On that note, I find myself in need of suggestions on how to use an additional 245w per day.  No reason, just wondering

i think if you tow one of your trucks, with the other one, and leave the handbrake on both of them that should do the trick (",) . oh, dont put the wheels back on either...

[shorthair]

...and "shut the heck up, who cares so much about $20"

If a guy makes it into his 30s and hasn't been married, it indicates he's had a really strange life or there's something -really- wrong with him.  Witness Polaris and his "it's a piece of paper" when he really means "oh god I'm so lonely"

Enjoy your mom's basement, single folks.

That last part is funny. The first part I don't know what he means there, and the second part (as well as the 'heck') just spells it out. PBJ has a distinctive kind of conservative outlook. Fine.


polaris: you misunderstood what I said. There's a difference of body mass unit, per gram of daily protein intake, between UK (or whatever affiliation the one you studied is with) and American systems - kilos for the former, pounds for the latter - which means that if we both weigh 150 pounds, the amount of protein intake in the UK system is less than half suggested in the American. As you follow one, I follow the other, our answers on the matter are different.

[polaris]

shorty
yep cheers dude youve cleared that up for me

howard
thank you

[polaris]

so a man needs a wife to stop him from being stupid.
i think someones wife is out of town at the moment.

[HaRuMaN]

Let's see a picture of your gameroom, polaris.

Silly you....  trolls don't have gamerooms!

[polaris]

Let's see a picture of your gameroom, polaris.

i dont have one.
the toys to which you are referring in my case , project arcade machine,  lots of records and a piano ,all in my living room but its there or the garden so not a tough choice. thats it mate, if i had more money to blow, id buy more records and a second piano and probably another record player and 2 cd players.
im not what your currently implying , have another go.
BTW im single ,not in the least bit concerned about it, i have a daughter who fills my life, and would want no partner in my life that would tell me what to do particularly if she tried to get rid of the piano or not accept that i will be getting a second piano, regardless of what space they took up.
you can imply about what i say about a piece of paper, but i dont believe in god so why get married in his eyes.

[polaris]

Silly you....  trolls don't have gamerooms!

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. 

again i'm happy to state you are a moron.
i was responding in this thread to a health issue, its you who has sought to abuse me , that would be the trolling you refer to wouldnt it, i was on topic , but honestly this wife of yours must be so grateful of me at the moment.
your obviously a person who argues illogically because you get off on it, so it must be nice for her to be having a break at the moment

[DrewKaree]

I would like to point out that that day I get married and sign away half of my possessions to someone I'll eventually get sick of is the day I've lost it. 

That's a rather safe defense you've put up there.  You'll have "lost it", so THAT'S why de wimmins leaving your vicinity don't bother you, and the sooner you can drive them away, the better!

I do NOT buy hybrid cars because they are some made up b.s. by the auto/oil industry designed to distract you to the fact that sticking a redundant gas engine in an electric car negates any cost/energy benefit due to the extra wieght.

Given the mileage they report, either there's a bigger lie being put forth than guys like Pat want to acknowledge, or you're wanting to argue that the electric part needs to be more efficient, rather than the gas part being too heavy so as to wreck all the hard work of the electric part.

No matter the angle you wish to take, you've helped me.  I'm going to buy a Prius and put it in the back of the truck Danny wants me to tow around.

It won't weigh as much as the one from the dealer, because I also realized I can remove the handful of batteries from the Prius and bury them close to a water supply somewhere.  If the local water treatment station wasn't fenced off, I could just toss 'em in one of the holding ponds.  Mebbe I'll see if Ed can hook me up on that one.

Would those batteries "work" better if they were tossed on the tire fire, or in a holding pond?

[Ed_McCarron]

What kind of batteries are in the prius?

Batteries are one of the things that are better off recycled.  Lithium, Lead, Nickel, Cadmium...  All messy and better to recycle than to toss into the waste stream.

I made a concious effort to do domething green today.  I told a fat guy to diet.  I figure he'll consume less resources and add less to the waste stream.

[DrewKaree]

What kind of batteries are in the prius?

Batteries are one of the things that are better off recycled.  Lithium, Lead, Nickel, Cadmium...  All messy and better to recycle than to toss into the waste stream.

That's just crazy talk right there

Those batteries HAVE to be better on a tire fire or in a water treatment plant's holding pond, no?

[patrickl]

I do NOT buy hybrid cars because they are some made up b.s. by the auto/oil industry designed to distract you to the fact that sticking a redundant gas engine in an electric car negates any cost/energy benefit due to the extra wieght.

Given the mileage they report, either there's a bigger lie being put forth than guys like Pat want to acknowledge, or you're wanting to argue that the electric part needs to be more efficient, rather than the gas part being too heavy so as to wreck all the hard work of the electric part.

The reason for the electric motor is because only an electric motor can be used in the "regenerative braking" that the Prius uses. If used properly (ie you don't brake to late, forcing the mechanical brakes to kick in), it recovers up to two thirds of the braking energy. It is the most important way to save fuel in stop and go city traffic.

The gas engine is needed because I don't think they are able to produce a useful fully electrically powerded car yet. Either the car is too small or it doesn't have acceptable range.

[DrewKaree]

The gas engine is needed because I don't think they are able to produce a useful fully electrically powerded car yet. Either the car is too small or it doesn't have acceptable range.

That line is bunk.  They're starting to import Smart cars here in 2008 (after adding more safety features, since they're not safe enough for our roads, evidently ).

If THOSE cars are "big enough" that people view them as reasonable transportation, then your "the car is too small" line is complete and utter bunk.  The smart cars claim mileage figures that are attainable for larger (e.g. less sardine-can-sized) vehicles, have negligible storage - to the point that they have to point out the cubic storage space when filled to the roof - and in general, have no compelling reason to choose them instead of a larger car.

That they will sell is not in doubt - they will not import a car that WON'T sell, so the size of the vehicle you're referring to has to be smaller than a Smart car, and Matchbox has a hard time making a smaller car than a Smrt

[ChadTower]

I'm catching this a little late, but for once, pinballjim isn't so far off.  I've found that with arcade guys, more so pinball guys, if they don't have kids they are going to be a pain in the ass to deal with.  They're going to be very selfish, nickel and dime the crap out of you, waste your time intentionally to do it, flake off on deals with regularity... all things that someone with a family and demands on spare time can't afford.  I've had very few arcade deals with guys that don't have kids go smoothly.

[patrickl]

The gas engine is needed because I don't think they are able to produce a useful fully electrically powerded car yet. Either the car is too small or it doesn't have acceptable range.

That line is bunk.  They're starting to import Smart cars here in 2008

Now imagine filling that smart up to the roof with batteries needed to power it and see how "big" it is.

Anyway, of course electric cars are available already and the manufacturers are working on new models. For now they don't seem to be a big sell though. So whatever is causing that is the reason for it   Could be range, size, price or whatever.

I wonder if the extra batteries needed for a fully electrically powered care wouldn't weigh as much as a small petrol engine anyway.

after adding more safety features, since they're not safe enough for our roads, evidently

What kind of safety features are they adding? Perhaps a bigger airbag to accomodate americans not using a seat belt? They added ESC in europe after they were found to flip over too easily, but what else can they add.

[patrickl]

I'm catching this a little late, but for once, pinballjim isn't so far off.  I've found that with arcade guys, more so pinball guys, if they don't have kids they are going to be a pain in the ass to deal with.  They're going to be very selfish, nickel and dime the crap out of you, waste your time intentionally to do it, flake off on deals with regularity... all things that someone with a family and demands on spare time can't afford.  I've had very few arcade deals with guys that don't have kids go smoothly.

Does pinballjim have kids?

[ChadTower]

No idea.

[DrewKaree]

after adding more safety features, since they're not safe enough for our roads, evidently

What kind of safety features are they adding? Perhaps a bigger airbag to accomodate americans not using a seat belt? They added ESC in europe after they were found to flip over too easily, but what else can they add.

I have no idea.  There is a Suzuki dealership here that has 4 of those deathtraps selling for an astronomical $26,000, and they have to be sold as used cars (brand new models with the used car info sticker on 'em) due to some other regulations.

When my buddy wanted some more info on 'em, we looked online for 'em.  They get 45mpg and aren't slated for import until 2008 here, and the reason given was that they have to add several safety improvements or features (can't remember how it was phrased).  Due to them lacking these items already, that was cited as the reason they weren't already being imported.  It's also one of the reasons they have to be sold as used cars thus far. 

My flabber was gasted when I found out those things were $26k.  Mebbe that's their starting point, but they darn sure expect to sell them for somewhere close to that point.  That's an astronomical price for a car that looks like it would lose in a head-on collision with a Big Wheel/motorized wheelchair

[patrickl]

after adding more safety features, since they're not safe enough for our roads, evidently

What kind of safety features are they adding? Perhaps a bigger airbag to accomodate americans not using a seat belt? They added ESC in europe after they were found to flip over too easily, but what else can they add.

I have no idea.  There is a Suzuki dealership here that has 4 of those deathtraps selling for an astronomical $26,000, and they have to be sold as used cars (brand new models with the used car info sticker on 'em) due to some other regulations.

When my buddy wanted some more info on 'em, we looked online for 'em.  They get 45mpg and aren't slated for import until 2008 here, and the reason given was that they have to add several safety improvements or features (can't remember how it was phrased).  Due to them lacking these items already, that was cited as the reason they weren't already being imported.  It's also one of the reasons they have to be sold as used cars thus far. 

My flabber was gasted when I found out those things were $26k.  Mebbe that's their starting point, but they darn sure expect to sell them for somewhere close to that point.  That's an astronomical price for a car that looks like it would lose in a head-on collision with a Big Wheel/motorized wheelchair

$26k sounds outrageous. Overhere they start at €9k (like $12k), but a general price would be €12k ($16k) which is bad enough. Mind you, that's including the 60% of taxes we have on new cars overhere. So I would expect the cars to sell for a lot less than that in the US.

It's basically half a car.

[DrewKaree]

I'm guessing it's because nobody else has them here...some kind of "value" cost increase

Seems prices when they're offered here next year will be in line with what you're saying, so I can't for the life of me fathom why they think the "cache" of having one of these a year early is worth $14k

http://www.smartusa.com/faq.html

I have no idea what's different from previous years, but there's all the info they're putting out.  Seems that the press release I read was either incorrect, or they re-figured their info.  Doing the conversion using Google gave me a figure of 46 mpg, to be exact.  Their figures for 2008 for the U.S. are 40 "plus" mpg.

My CRX got that, looked a hell of a lot cooler, and didn't make me fear a bicyclist would total my car

[ChadTower]

Miatas are about as reliable as a politician and tend to dissolve on any collision.

[boykster]

5th Gear tv actually did some pretty intensive crash testing of the SMART car, and believe it or not, it fares VERY well in collisions with other cars, some largish cars even.  I'd feel MUCH safer in a SMART car than in any american econobox.  Of course on teh road surrounded by gigantic SUV's it would be pretty intimidating, but around town as a city car (which is what they really are) would be just fine.

In this crash test, they run one into a concrete barrier at 70mph and it was pretty bad, but I can't see any small car faring much better than this car.

http://steveintheuk.com/2005/12/21/december-2005-fifth-gear-smart-car-crash/

[jbox]

so I can't for the life of me fathom why they think the "cache" of having one of these a year early is worth $14k

Some people are just "those kind of people"? Who buys the top-line CPU's instead of the other ones which are 5% slower and 60% cheaper? Who buys the pre-order Zuper-Box Mega-Whopper-Huge-Big pack when everyone knows that a year from now it will be $100 cheaper? To some people the value of having something right now is much more than others. 

[ChadTower]

Yeah, dumb people.

[DrewKaree]

so I can't for the life of me fathom why they think the "cache" of having one of these a year early is worth $14k

Some people are just "those kind of people"? Who buys the top-line CPU's instead of the other ones which are 5% slower and 60% cheaper? Who buys the pre-order Zuper-Box Mega-Whopper-Huge-Big pack when everyone knows that a year from now it will be $100 cheaper? To some people the value of having something right now is much more than others. 

I see the few hundred as somewhat an impulse buy type of thing.  $14,000 more is outside my ability to see as an "impulse buy".  Seems to me that those who could view $14,000 as an amount they have no problem dropping on impulse aren't the type who're gonna be driving around in a tuna can on wheels.

Boyks, when the front of the car is as close to your body as the back of the car, I'm never ditching the feeling that I'm a missed blind-spot check away from becoming a semi's new tire. 

Heaven help the poor soul who's claustrophobic and has to ride in one of those as well.

[Buddabing]

I'm guessing it's because nobody else has them here...some kind of "value" cost increase

Seems prices when they're offered here next year will be in line with what you're saying, so I can't for the life of me fathom why they think the "cache" of having one of these a year early is worth $14k

http://www.smartusa.com/faq.html

I have no idea what's different from previous years, but there's all the info they're putting out.  Seems that the press release I read was either incorrect, or they re-figured their info.  Doing the conversion using Google gave me a figure of 46 mpg, to be exact.  Their figures for 2008 for the U.S. are 40 "plus" mpg.

My CRX got that, looked a hell of a lot cooler, and didn't make me fear a bicyclist would total my car

I'd buy one if the price was right, I'd say about $10k USD.

I think the word you're looking for is "cachet".

[patrickl]

I'm guessing it's because nobody else has them here...some kind of "value" cost increase

Seems prices when they're offered here next year will be in line with what you're saying, so I can't for the life of me fathom why they think the "cache" of having one of these a year early is worth $14k

I only mentioned some basic prices. There are more expensive models. A while ago I was in the Amsterdam auto show (AutoRAI) and they had a smart (think it was the Brabus "pimped" version) that cost something like €25k ($32k). The cabrio is more expensive (by about 3k) than the coupe version and from looking at it you can hardly see the difference. Their idea of cabrio is more a sunroof.

[/quote]I have no idea what's different from previous years, but there's all the info they're putting out. [/quote]Well there simply is a new model coming up. Perhaps for the old model it was too just expensive to make it comply with US regulations (could be as simple as having to move the taillight an inch up). The new model was probably designed with both US and European rules in mind then.

They are losing so much money on it  they basically restarted the whole smart business. They dumped the extra models (4 seater and roadster) and redesigned the basic model. Guess one part of the new strategy is to try and sell it in the US too.

I had one on my drive way (loaner when a car was in the shop for service), but it simply looks scary to drive in. They say the shell of the car stays intact, but it just doesn't look like the people inside will remain intact. Feels like the back of your head is on the rear window. maybe the new model will be better (it will be slightly less small at least)

[danny_galaga]

I wonder if the extra batteries needed for a fully electrically powered care wouldn't weigh as much as a small petrol engine anyway.

more. i love the idea of electric cars and when i have some cash i want to build some kind of electric streeter (they do really good 1/4 mile times). but as they stand there is a big issue with range and weight with traditional batteries, and cost with lithium ion. the idea of a hybrid is more to average out what a petrol engine is doing. a petrol engine is most efficient if it just runs at a certain constant speed as in a generator. in a normal car, the constant acceleration/deceleration means you need a much larger engine than required to just hold the speed. electric motors have huge torque from 0 rpm to top so the combination of the two should give the best of both worlds- car with an engine of about 40 hp with electric performing like a regular 100 hp motor...

[polaris]

i agree they seem a bit tiny ,and i wouldnt say they are reasonably priced. you probably get a nonsense tax break here for buying one , that'll be about £50 or something silly. i do like them though. but i like minis too.
in our cities though they are a dream and i can see one day soon cars like that being the only ones allowed in cities.
congestion charges in london relate to the engine size in your car and 4x4 are being taxed ar a higher rate already.
 a marathon runner raced a car across london ,and won. these tiny things may help, but obviously that doesnt account for motorway driving after leaving the city, i can imagine people not feeling safe on motorways next to lorries.

[patrickl]

With only 2 seats and only space for one shopping bag in the "back", the smart narrows it's market quite a lot (basically single women with no hopes/wishes of getting kids). Especially since for the same money you can buy a car twice the size.

On the other hand, in the Netherlands they use smarts for "ambulance" and "firetruck" and in Belgium for taxi's:

[shorthair]

They had ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like this in sci-fi movies in the late 70s.

[ChadTower]

Plus single women who don't care if they die in a collision with anything bigger than a walnut.

[patrickl]

They had ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like this in sci-fi movies in the late 70s.

When people mention an electric car I always have to think of the C5 that Clive Sinclair produced in the 80s.

[ChadTower]

These?  Niiice.

[danny_galaga]

With only 2 seats and only space for one shopping bag in the "back", the smart narrows it's market quite a lot (basically single women with no hopes/wishes of getting kids). Especially since for the same money you can buy a car twice the size.

On the other hand, in the Netherlands they use smarts for "ambulance" and "firetruck" and in Belgium for taxi's:

actually, they would be great for taxis in congested cities (",). that ambulnace looks like it is a 3 wheeler 

[patrickl]

With only 2 seats and only space for one shopping bag in the "back", the smart narrows it's market quite a lot (basically single women with no hopes/wishes of getting kids). Especially since for the same money you can buy a car twice the size.

On the other hand, in the Netherlands they use smarts for "ambulance" and "firetruck" and in Belgium for taxi's:

actually, they would be great for taxis in congested cities (",). that ambulnace looks like it is a 3 wheeler 

Why would it work better than a normal car in a congested city? It stil gets stuck in traffic. Or do you mean it pollutes less? I seriously hope they wont show up with one of those when I'm going somewhere with some suitcases

I think the ambulance has a door open (Actually it's a paramedic car, but ambulance sounds cooler)

[patrickl]

These?  Niiice.

Yeah, cool huh? Well, back then they were considered cool, although not many were actually sold.

[ChadTower]

Still cool.  If I could find one in the $300 range I'd strongly consider it to drive around the block on.

[AtomSmasher]

With only 2 seats and only space for one shopping bag in the "back", the smart narrows it's market quite a lot (basically single women with no hopes/wishes of getting kids). Especially since for the same money you can buy a car twice the size.

On the other hand, in the Netherlands they use smarts for "ambulance" and "firetruck" and in Belgium for taxi's:

actually, they would be great for taxis in congested cities (",). that ambulnace looks like it is a 3 wheeler 

If they made them into taxi's, then they would look exactly like the Johnny Cab from Total Recall