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Author Topic: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards  (Read 766726 times)

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SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #200 on: December 17, 2007, 03:51:10 pm »
It's exactly this problem.
cabMAME changes the speed at which the soundbuffer is read, so that there are no buffer underrun/overrun hickups.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #201 on: December 17, 2007, 04:02:33 pm »
I guess I should ask what is the consequence of this problem; what does the user experience?  Is it stuttering sound or something like that?
I have not played a lot with the recent MAME releases but I don't recall having experienced sound problems with triplebuffer and running kunfgum at 60Hz (original ran at 55Hz).
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 10:55:32 pm by TheManuel »
"The Manuel"

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #202 on: December 17, 2007, 09:03:54 pm »
I am amazed the mame team hasnt implemented this hack. What are the percentages of people who actually run mame at the exact refresh rates?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #203 on: December 18, 2007, 03:41:01 am »
for example the good old pacman runs at 60.61 Hz.
So if you run it on exact 60.00Hz, you are running with ~98,99%.

So this makes pacman about 1,01% slower (and the sound pitch those 1% lower).
I guess only real fanatics hear the difference :)

---

The NeoGeo would be the same, but faster.
natively running with 59,18 Hz, you would run at 101,38% on 60.00Hz.

that would make the game a little faster and the sound pitch a little higher.

---
But... R-Type for example is a example for this being pretty bad.
On a normal PC-VGA-Card, you would have something like 800 x 600 @ 56Hz, which pretty good hits R-Types 55Hz.
However on Soft-15kHz or the ArcadeVGA, it will run at 401 x 256 @ 53Hz, which makes R-Type run with ~96,36% which you most likely will hear (although its not that bad as it sounds).
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 03:47:24 am by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #204 on: December 18, 2007, 07:54:32 am »
Quote
The NeoGeo would be the same, but faster.
natively running with 59,18 Hz, you would run at 101,38% on 60.00Hz.
that would make the game a little faster and the sound pitch a little higher.
Now you have me lost.  You said a few posts above that MAME does not change the pitch:

Quote
you SHOULD, however mame doesn't change the pitch so if doesn't generate enough samples if the emulation is lower than 100%, and you get too many samples if it's faster than 100%.

Besides, doesn't one of those new parameters, refresh or refreshspeed automatically adjust the sound rate (I think this is what you aluded to when you said MAME alters the sample rate).


Also, catching up with this post, it should be noted that this problem only applies when using syncrefresh (which is on automatically when choosing triplebuffer in full-screen) because MAME runs the game at the refresh rate of the monitor.  If not using these features, MAME runs the game at the original speed regardless of monitor refresh and screen tearing ensues.
"The Manuel"

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #205 on: December 18, 2007, 09:38:05 am »
Now you have me lost.  You said a few posts above that MAME does not change the pitch:

Besides, doesn't one of those new parameters, refresh or refreshspeed automatically adjust the sound rate (I think this is what you aluded to when you said MAME alters the sample rate).

Yeah I was trying to describe cabMAMEs behavior.

And for those new MAME features (it should be refreshspeed), well... It doesn't work too good, still have cracking and jumping sound.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #206 on: December 18, 2007, 10:06:06 am »
OK.  Thanks.

I'll check out your build if I run into sound problems when I get a monitor.
"The Manuel"

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #207 on: December 18, 2007, 01:49:21 pm »
Manuel: It worked well for me. I just compiled the hacks into my own mame build.

Sailer I do have a question. I am running d3d, artwork all on, tripple buffering, and 25scanline.png and 640x480 resoultion in desktop

I tried using same settings with ddraw and it just centers the game in the middle of screen. The gaems all fit on screen and artwork and overlays looks good.  get some tearing espically noticable when playing zaxxon. Should I stick with d3d or is ddraw better? If so how do I get ddraw to work with the aartwork and fill the screen instead of cropping and centerizing?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #208 on: December 18, 2007, 03:25:28 pm »
Err... Don't know, I don't use artworks at all :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #209 on: December 21, 2007, 10:46:03 am »
Ok Sailor was doing some testing and I have a question. My setup is an Nvidia Geforce 7950GT Running

forceware 163.75 drivers. I have all 3 modes installed on soft 15khz. I also added a custom31khz.txt

with these 2 entries (modeline '1024x768@60p' 65.0 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -vsync -hsync
modeline '800x600@60p' 40.0 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 -hsync -vsync)so my desktop would not

flicker as per your instructions. I have a (Billbas BL27CB0P 27" 15~48 kHz
Autosync™CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA/XGA Penta-Resolution V-Freq. 47~90 Hz) Monitor.

Now I am running mame with ddraw, no hardware stretch, switch res on and certain resolutions

instead of getting  15khz horz and 60khz vertical I am getting double that on each. I will list out each res

mode i have tested and exact values I am getting. My questions area as follows:

Is it safe to run the arcade monitor @120+khz vertial even if specs say 90khz?
Why isn’t the monitor running these resolutions at the 15khz/60khz range??
If its a limitation of my video card or monitos is there way to test similar resoultions that may run at 15khz?

I spoke to ummon who has the same monitor and said he has had

similar findings with a geforce 6 series card. Can it be that newer PCI Express cards exhibit this issue

of doubling refresh rates with  certain resolutions? Anything to address this? I would like to run all

15khz resolutions at 15khz since games also appear brighter as well. Please let me know what you think.

All tests were done in 32 bit color

240x240   30.9khz   116.6khz
256x240   15.7         60.4
256x256   32.5         119.3
256x264   16.2         58.6
288x240   31.8        120.1
296x240   31.7        120.1
304x240   15.8        58.4
320x240   15.5         58.1
320x256   32.8         119.1
336x240   15.8         60
352x256   32.6         120.5
352x264   32.3         114.1
352x288   15.9         50.9
448x240   15.5         32.4
448x384   24.8          59.9
632x264   15.8          56.8
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 10:56:03 am by bent98 »

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #210 on: December 21, 2007, 11:11:37 am »
I just got off the phone with billbas tech support and they said there were some reports of people burning out the horizontal at high refresh rates, so I was advised not to run above 90khz
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 11:13:15 am by bent98 »

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #211 on: December 21, 2007, 11:21:05 am »
Hm... I've used both a GeForce6 and a GeForce7 without problems 15kHz "only".

I'm wondering why you get double vertical refresh with some resolutions without feeding some special modelines in.

P.S. Its Hz in vertical, not kHz :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #212 on: December 21, 2007, 11:39:50 am »
Is there any suggestions or further tests you want me to preform?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #213 on: December 21, 2007, 12:13:08 pm »
Hm... Take a look in the forceware, there should be a tab with costum resolutions, the should all be around 60Hz.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #214 on: December 21, 2007, 12:22:01 pm »
They all say 60hz reported by OS and  progressive, however 240x240 shows 58.80hz for example. Should I adjust anything?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 12:27:50 pm by bent98 »

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #215 on: December 21, 2007, 12:41:16 pm »
Hm...
Everything should be fine...
Don't know why it doubles the refreshrate
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #216 on: December 21, 2007, 12:42:37 pm »
Any way of changing resoultion slighly to see if it will stick to 15hz? I really need 256x256 to run @ 60hz Maybe run 256x260?
Also is there a way to change 352x288  to 60hz? That resolution works but runs games too slow

I just installed 93.71 drivers and also elimated custom31khz.txt and still same behavior.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 02:11:55 pm by bent98 »

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #217 on: December 22, 2007, 12:22:09 am »
Well I can confirm theres something not right with nvidia cards and at least with my monitor.

I tried installing a geforce 6800 gtx and all resolutions doubled not just some.
So I installed a ATI x300SE and guess what all resolutions now run @ 15khz so there is something up with the nvidia cards. You may want to look into this further Sailor.


SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #218 on: December 22, 2007, 06:09:37 am »
Thats pretty much impossible without such a card :(
My 6600GT and my 7600GT (both AGP) work fine.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #219 on: December 22, 2007, 08:54:25 am »
well I m not the only one who eperiened this issue. These are PCI-E cards not AGP though.
There is a issue though for sure.

Jetto Funk

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #220 on: December 24, 2007, 09:08:04 am »
Sweet, maybe I won't need a new video card after all :D

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #221 on: December 31, 2007, 11:29:47 pm »
Anyone try a ATI 3850HD???

Lilwolf

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #222 on: January 09, 2008, 08:52:46 pm »
rrrr...  I had everything working GREAT!  Then my C drive died, had to run some disk checks... killed windows... had to run a repair install of XP over my old one.

Now I'm having problems in 1/2 of the resolutions that soft-15 added!  If I run SF type games, I get an out of range on my betson monitor (which handles 15, 25 and more).

How do I find out how many resolutions are available?  (quickres always throws up a TON of them). 
How do I find out what resolution MAME is trying to run?
How do I test each resolution by hand?  (quickres isn't showing that many resolutions)

Thanks! 

Lilwolf

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #223 on: January 09, 2008, 08:58:52 pm »
double rrrr... just realized that after I uninstalled the soft15 resolutions, it STILL has problems with a bunch of mame games now... !@#$

Its showing up as 45khz and 60hz for a bunch of them (pacman/sf2/upndown).

Is it time for a reinstall of the XP?   Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 09:07:53 pm by Lilwolf »

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #224 on: January 10, 2008, 02:53:56 am »
You should rather reinstall the ATI drivers.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Lilwolf

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #225 on: January 10, 2008, 05:27:28 pm »
Tried that before posting...  Uninstalled the ATI drivers and then went back to the Omega drivers... no go... reinstalled the ATI drivers... no go...

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #226 on: January 11, 2008, 01:02:20 am »
Hm... Then something is messed up. Can't help you on that without lookin first hand :(
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Lilwolf

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #227 on: January 17, 2008, 08:50:08 am »
I got it working.  I uninstalled, then rebooted, then reinstalled.  I think up until then, I had done one, but not both uninstall/reinstall and rebooting together.   I put off fixing it for a few days because I thought I was going to reinstall the OS anyway (newer drive) but now I'm probably going to put that off also.

Thanks!

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #228 on: January 24, 2008, 08:25:05 am »
Has anyone tested a latest generation ATI video card. Just wondering if it works well with soft 15

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #229 on: January 24, 2008, 09:15:35 am »
As far as i know, the HD2400 doesn't work with resolution below 321x240.
But I haven't tried yet.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #230 on: January 24, 2008, 02:54:09 pm »
what about the 3850 or 3870HD??

Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #231 on: January 25, 2008, 01:19:57 pm »
As far as i know, the HD2400 doesn't work with resolution below 321x240.
But I haven't tried yet.

Is this becoming a market trend?
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

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People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #232 on: January 30, 2008, 10:11:35 pm »
Hey sailor
Take a look at the last video card in that thread. the geforce 7300. He has the doubling of same refresh and uses a custom file to remove and re add.
 Seems like my 7850GT is doubling certain resolutions. Take a look at my post about certain resolutions double. Could that be ena fix for my issue. The thing is I dont have card anymore. If this is the fix you may want to add it to the FAQ

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=3

remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

     
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 10:50:16 am by bent98 »

bent98

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #233 on: January 31, 2008, 02:32:50 pm »
Update I just got a hold of a Nividia 7950GT and guess what. After adding that information from previous post and putting it into a custom15khz.txt It works like a charm. No more line doubling.

Sailor you need to add this to your FAQ for nivida 7 series cards.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #234 on: January 31, 2008, 03:25:51 pm »
When mame selects a resolution for a game, does it take refresh rate into account?

northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #235 on: January 31, 2008, 03:40:26 pm »
I have few questions that were probably already asked and answered but it may have been long enough to change by now.

Does it work on XP pro yet?

does it work with the AVres Tool?

has anyone tried it with a AGP with alot of power like a 256MB or 512MB etc?

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #236 on: January 31, 2008, 04:57:31 pm »
Does it work on XP pro yet?

Worked fine for me when I tested today.

Quote
has anyone tried it with a AGP with alot of power like a 256MB or 512MB etc?

Can't see how that this would make any difference at all, but worked fine on a 256MB AGP card for me.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #237 on: January 31, 2008, 05:38:14 pm »
When mame selects a resolution for a game, does it take refresh rate into account?

Per default yes, but it would rather select 70hz for pacman (60.6060... Hz) than 60hz.
However that one doesn't count on Soft-15kHz as it adds all resolution with 60Hz to Windows.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #238 on: January 31, 2008, 05:39:48 pm »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #239 on: January 31, 2008, 05:43:58 pm »
Per default yes, but it would rather select 70hz for pacman (60.6060... Hz) than 60hz.
However that one doesn't count on Soft-15kHz as it adds all resolution with 60Hz to Windows.

Ok thanks. I'm looking at creating a bunch of resolutions with carying refresh rates (e.g. 57Hz etc...), as games at that refresh don't go down well at 60Hz...

If there is no limit on number of resolutions, you could create a lot varying refresh rates....?