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Author Topic: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards  (Read 766683 times)

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Constructacon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #560 on: April 19, 2008, 05:05:39 pm »
I was just waiting for morning to do it as it was too late at night for me.

Problem solved.  :cheers: Thanks SailorSat. Now to start playing.......

Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #561 on: April 23, 2008, 01:50:30 am »
Okay, on my PII with win98, I used a Radeon 7000. Drivers loaded fine. Soft15 modes load, but after restart, they aren't available. And I can't test them from Windows, because QuickRes is XP only.
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #562 on: April 23, 2008, 08:08:04 am »
Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #563 on: April 23, 2008, 11:30:33 am »
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #564 on: April 23, 2008, 01:28:54 pm »
I doubt any of the HD radeon will work perfectly, however, the HD 2400 pro does work with a pixelclock of 7.12 or higher (see tested cards for modelines).
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #565 on: April 24, 2008, 02:07:15 pm »
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.

You did get a capable power supply, right?


Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.

No. I checked at Ultimarc. Says XP only. And I tried it just to see.
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #566 on: April 24, 2008, 02:09:26 pm »
Yeah but the Ultimarcs Quickres is NOT the same as the one with soft-15khz.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #567 on: April 24, 2008, 02:25:40 pm »
has anyone tried the radeon HD series yet?

I think I am going to return my sapphire x1650 pro 512MB out of the box stock it runs for maybe ten minutes and overheats so i bought a zaleman vf-9000 vga cooling kit wich is one of the best and it still overheats on hard core gaming and it just is not right so I would suggest staying away from those branded cards they run way to hot on their own.

You did get a capable power supply, right?


Huh?
QuickRes should run fine in 98 too.

No. I checked at Ultimarc. Says XP only. And I tried it just to see.

I am running a Diablo 550w black chrome ATX switching power supply and it runs 20amp on the 12volt line

I was using a 400watt 16amp 12volt line thinkingit may have been the problem but they both do the same and the diablo 550watt should be more then enough right?

TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #568 on: April 24, 2008, 03:40:36 pm »
SailorSat:

Can Soft15kHz be used to add low resolutions and somehow forcing the video card to double them?
This is similar to the 320x240 resolution most cards support which is then doubled to 640x480.
This is the subject of my recent post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79447.0

The application would be for TV-out usage.

Thanks.
"The Manuel"

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #569 on: April 24, 2008, 04:00:02 pm »
Should work with any modeline if you add the "doublescan" parameter, however don't forget to also double pixel clock (the dotted value).
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


ahofle

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #570 on: April 24, 2008, 04:48:16 pm »
Here's a nice post with some useful modelines (including some linedoubled ones):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=70233.msg720043#msg720043

For example:

device_video_modeline pc_31.5_320x240 12.5876 320 328 376 400 240 245 246 262 -hsync -vsync doublescan

Just change to

modeline '320x240@60' 12,5876 320 328 376 400 240 245 246 262 -hsync -vsync doublescan


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #571 on: April 24, 2008, 05:36:46 pm »
Thank you.
I will give it a try.
This communicty is such a resource.
Whenever I'm on the verge of quitting finishing this project (due mostly to small budget) someone comes through with an answer.
 :cheers:
"The Manuel"

northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #572 on: April 24, 2008, 05:50:40 pm »
I doubt any of the HD radeon will work perfectly, however, the HD 2400 pro does work with a pixelclock of 7.12 or higher (see tested cards for modelines).

I dont understand what you mean.

in order for a HD 2400 pro to work the card itself has to have a pixel clock of 7.12 or higher built on the card itself?

or is the pixelclock something in with the soft15K software that it needs in order for it to work?

will it still be able to run all the soft15K res's like it normaly does or does it loose some?

what is the strongest nvidia card that works with the all of the stock soft15k res's?

I am asking becuase when I run older pc games they run fine but when i play company of heroes, scarface, resisdent evil 4 stuff around that time era after 10 minutes to a half hour the screen goes black and most the time the psu shuts down and resets the pc.

I have aftermarket cooling on everything with arctic silver 5 and such and I cannot seem to get anything over 54 on the ATI tool temp under 100% load.

I am using a new 550watt psu with a x1650 pro so I dont know why it is doing this becuase it should have enough to run the games no problem according to their system requirement specs on the box's.

only thing I can think of is the card cannot handle them but it does play them for a short time and then cuts out  :dunno






SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #573 on: April 24, 2008, 05:56:04 pm »
It means that only modelines with a Pixelclock of 7.12MHz or higher will work.

Code: [Select]
;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #574 on: April 24, 2008, 06:13:50 pm »
ahh I undertand after I looked at the tested cards section you mentioned prior.

I am running the sapphire x1650 pro agp version and it is the same as your pci version and it to needed the pickelclock of 7.12Mhz or higher.

so if I got the HD2400 I would get the same results as now with the same setting I am currently using but have a better card right?

is there a nvidia that is better then the HD2400 that works?

I dont know to much about nvidia's I alway's been an ATI fan.


SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #575 on: April 24, 2008, 06:16:06 pm »
The X1650 is better than a HD2400, at least 3D wise.

The "biggest" GeForce supported would be a GeForce 7950 GT or GX2 (if you got the money *lol*)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #576 on: April 24, 2008, 07:35:51 pm »
I found this chart for newer card benchmarks.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards/3dmark06-v1-0-2-hdr-sm3-0-score,538.html

according to this chart it looks like the ATI X1950 XT is the strongest way to go until you hit running SLI but on the chart it even beats the geforce 7900GT wich is pretty much the same as the 7950GT but unless there running double then there below the X1950 XT.

anyone running a X1950 XT yet and if so what type of PSU strengh you using?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 08:18:37 pm by northerngames »

TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #577 on: April 25, 2008, 10:54:40 am »
I tried this modeline with Soft15kHz but it did not quite work:
modeline '384x224@60' 15.1051 384 392 448 480 224 229 230 245 -hsync -vsync doublescan

I tried two ways, with the 31kHz butoon and with the User Modes button and using the appropriately name .txt file in both cases.
This caused the video driver to "dissappear" so that I could not even start MAME but was getting a DDraw error isntead. 

Assuming the above is an error of mine somehow, I did notice that Soft15kHz appended the resolution to DALNonStandardModesBCD in the registry as:
03 84 02 24 00 00 01 28
So basically, 384x224@128Hz.
Is this what doublescan does for you?

I uninstalled Soft15Khz and restored the drivers.  I then added the resolution to that registry key manually as shown above but MAME would not see it either through the MAME32 GUI or by forcing it in the command line as either 384x224@128 or 384x224@60.

My questions then are as follows:
1. Does doublescan simply add the resolution at twice the vertical refresh rate?
2. Are the standard 320x240 resolution from the video card done in this fashion (the are called at 60Hz through 85Hz and not at 128Hz)?  Note that this type of resolution is what I am tryng to accomplish but with different values like 384x224.
3. Is DALNonStandardModesBCD the only change Soft15kHz make?  Please let me know what else Soft15kHz does on ATI cards so that I try and play with it some more.

Thank you for your time.
"The Manuel"

chairhome

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #578 on: April 25, 2008, 12:52:41 pm »
Okay, so I'm converting an old arcade to a MAME machine and I wanted to know, are there any disadvantages with going with Soft 15khz rather than AVGA?  Another member here (who has posted on this thread) is selling his 7950gt that he's tested with Soft 15khz, and I just wanted to know if there's any cons with not using the AVGA.  Sorry if this has been answered already.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #579 on: April 25, 2008, 01:26:50 pm »
DALNonStandardModesBCD in the registry as:
03 84 02 24 00 00 01 28
So basically, 384x224@128Hz.

I'll take a look into it.
It should add the resolution with 60Hz as normaly but with twice the visible lines (hence doublescanned).
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #580 on: April 25, 2008, 03:13:50 pm »
Thanks.
I did not mean to create extra work for you.
If there is anything you would like me to do to rule out potential user error, let me know and I will try when I get home.
"The Manuel"

TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #581 on: April 25, 2008, 03:14:57 pm »
Where in the registry (if at all) would it be reflected that the resolution is to be displayed double scanned?
"The Manuel"

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #582 on: April 25, 2008, 03:46:02 pm »
In the DALR6_CRTxxxXyyyXzzz String.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #583 on: April 25, 2008, 03:57:29 pm »
Very well, then.
I'll fiddle with it tonight.
"The Manuel"

TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #584 on: April 26, 2008, 09:56:26 pm »
Quote
In the DALR6_CRTxxxXyyyXzzz String

Hmm.  I could not find anything like that in the registry.
I wonder if I'm looking in the right place.
"The Manuel"

TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #585 on: April 29, 2008, 09:00:59 am »
I found the key.
I got the doublescanned resoutions to work using the cutom31kHz.txt method.
However, I don't think doublescan works as intended in ATI drivers (the drivers fault, I'm sure).  When I managed to get MAME to use 384x224 doublescan, the monitor was reporting 64Hz vertical refresh rate as it should but the whole image was squashed into the top half of the display.  The bottom half was just black.
When I use one of the built-in low resolutions (presumably doublescanned) like 320x240, this does not happen. 
I still hope to find a way to re-create and modify those built-in resolutions.

Any ideas?
"The Manuel"

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #586 on: April 29, 2008, 01:44:55 pm »
Hm... Try removing the "detailed" mode definitions (DAL CRT384x224x60 etc.,) from the registry.
That MAY work, at least it does on NVidia cards.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #587 on: April 29, 2008, 01:59:21 pm »
Will do tonight.
Thanks.
"The Manuel"

Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #588 on: April 29, 2008, 05:51:30 pm »
Yeah but the Ultimarcs Quickres is NOT the same as the one with soft-15khz.

Okay, I picked up yours and sure enough it show only vga modes, despite soft15 showing the modes loaded. Maybe I should give up on win98?
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #589 on: April 29, 2008, 10:59:37 pm »
Removing the detailed modes you described did not help.  I wouls still get the image limited to the upper half of the screen.  I played with three different keys besides DALxxxNonStandardModes.  One of them when removed, causes the resolution not to appear.  The others, did not have an effect.
 :cry:

If you think of something else, please let me know.
It looks like I'm running out of options and might have settle for D3D but I'm always compelled to try something else.  It is hard to settle for a compromise.
"The Manuel"

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #590 on: April 29, 2008, 11:03:56 pm »
Hm... Too bad.
But you're right, ATI ignores the doublescan flag for now.
Need to fool around with it again :(
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


TheManuel

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #591 on: April 30, 2008, 09:32:50 am »
Thanks SailorSat.

I appreciate all the advise you gave me.
I'm sure there is not a lot of people trying to do this.
However, it was a good idea in principle.
Being able to use the exact resolution (doublescanned) as the original game through TV-out, would allow to fill the entire screen and avoid hardware stretch and D3D.
I found D3D to be a better alternative than hardware stretch.  Hardware stretch does not modify the image much but makes it look blurry.  D3D on the other hand alters the graphics a bit in the sense that if you have a "staircase" progression of pixels in an image (e.g. the swords in samsho2), D3D adds a few odd steps to make the scaling possible.  However, the resulting image, even though altered from the original, still looks sharp.
"The Manuel"

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #592 on: April 30, 2008, 11:05:56 am »
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 

Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #593 on: April 30, 2008, 05:50:54 pm »
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 

Heheheh. You'll find out.
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

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northerngames

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #594 on: April 30, 2008, 08:09:13 pm »
Hi I sent my X1650 pro back becuase it was having heat issue's.

so I decided to up the stakes and went with a X1950 pro 512MB AGP version.

this card is as good as it gets for AGP and direct X9.0c  however they do have a radeon HD3850 AGP released recently that does direct X10.1

I asked prior about the HD series and was wondering if they would work and if not is it becuase of the direct x10 that made them imcompatable with soft15K?

my other question is the X1650 I used required a few modes to help it display some of the lower res's better.

I am sure this new x1950 pro that is on the way will need the same type of set-up but I was wondering if it will work still if I use the same 15K mode file that I was using with the x1650 pro?

 

Heheheh. You'll find out.

that dont tell me much  :applaud:

brandon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #595 on: May 01, 2008, 03:28:13 pm »
I'm glad to report that the PNY Nvidia 7600 GS (PCI-E) works flawlessly with Soft 15khz!!  No need for custom modes, all the defaults work perfect!!  I'm glad I got rid of that X1550... what a piece! ;)

Ummon

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #596 on: May 02, 2008, 08:16:17 pm »
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

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People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #597 on: May 02, 2008, 09:15:21 pm »
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?
Its very possible..  I'm not an expert on such things but perhaps they stray from the Nvidia/ATI reference designs or the cards have a different firmware... ???   I'm just glad I got mine straightened out!  now.. If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #598 on: May 03, 2008, 01:23:14 am »
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?

Rather unlikely.
Most "differences" should be memory size and type, and maybe the default clock speeds.
As the drivers are the same on every hardware I guess it shouldn't make any difference at all.


If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Run them the way they are meant to run, i.e. run pacman in vertical :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #599 on: May 03, 2008, 10:16:40 am »
You know, I'm wondering if various brands' hardware differences might not be a factor here?

Rather unlikely.
Most "differences" should be memory size and type, and maybe the default clock speeds.
As the drivers are the same on every hardware I guess it shouldn't make any difference at all.


If I could just get my favorite games running at their proper refresh rate (ie NOT 50hz) I'll be in pure gaming heaven :)
Run them the way they are meant to run, i.e. run pacman in vertical :)

use this tool to auto configure the games res's and use the same mame settings as if you were using a arcadevga.

http://www.ultimarc.com/avres.zip


EDIT UPDATE:

got my X1950 pro in today on the 5th.

have not tried it yet but I can already tell it is going to make a major difference becuase it is almost littery twice the size of the x1650 pro.

it is longer then my motherboard is wide wich I was amazed by I had never seen any card as large as this beast is.

also on the X1650 there were 4 ram chips on top and 4 on the bootom and with this X1950 pro all 8 chips are wrapped around the GPU in a circular shape wich is the perfect layout for my new zalman VF900-CU GPU cooling kit.

I will update soon as I get everything hooked back up and tried out.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 04:14:53 pm by northerngames »