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Author Topic: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards  (Read 766577 times)

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SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #120 on: July 14, 2007, 02:17:45 am »
Crap I can't seem to get this installed on Vista 32-bit.  I follow the instructions but never get to see the lower resolutions in Quickres or Windows Display Properties.

Radeon 2600 XT - yeah vista and this card (Cat 7.6), I know im pushing my luck already.

I have a feeling its not making the correct entries into the Vista Registry as needed.

Anybody seen this?

Daniel

Hm...
Do you get the "higher" resolutions in 15KHz?

If you feel lucky, you can either dump a part of your windows registry (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE / SYSTEM / CurrentControlSet / Control / Video) or attach the registry backup that soft15khz should create.

As far as I know, the software itself works, however the newer video hard- and software may be a problem...
A GeForce 8800 with ForceWare 158 didn't work with lower resolutions on XP either.

At the moment, I can't do very much as I don't have those "highend" hardware :)

However I'm lookin into 3Dfx again, as it seems to be possible we get interlace on those cards at last. It works on linux side, so it SHOULD be possible to do it on windows too :)

I'm also trying to get hands on an Volari V3XT, V5 or V8, as someone told me they support custom resolutions. However nobody owns such a rare gem, and a normal V3 doesn't work ;)

Also I don't know why the newer Matrox cards don't display low resolutions.
Seems like a "limit" in the windows driver, higher resolutions work fine.

(After reading this post, I just noticed bad my english must be *gg*)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


edge

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2007, 09:27:17 pm »
Has anyone tried this with a Dell laptop yet?  I will dig mine up to see what card in embedded... Unfortunately, I think is in Intel based. :(

This would be a great option to shove my laptop in my old cocktail cabinet. :)

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #122 on: July 17, 2007, 12:25:39 am »
Has anyone tried this with a Dell laptop yet?  I will dig mine up to see what card in embedded... Unfortunately, I think is in Intel based. :(

This would be a great option to shove my laptop in my old cocktail cabinet. :)

Yeah, would be nice to know what chipset/graphic card.
Laptops with Radeon or GeForce chips should work fine out of the box.

Intel with an GMA-900 (and newer) Chipset "may work" with a beta version of Soft-15KHz too.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Carlito

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #123 on: July 31, 2007, 07:52:54 pm »
Hey guys, I'm really new to this mame/cabinet stuff and I have a few questions (Is there a more noob way to start a post??  ;))
I just picked up a cabinet.  The game itself is Karnov, that looks like it used to be a space invaders cabinet.
Anyway the guy informed me that it is a jamma cabinet..  So I'm wondering if I got a J-Pac board and hooked up a compatible video card with Soft-15khz is that all I will need to be able to use the arcade monitor that is inside the cabinet.  I would really like to use it since the machine is in perfect working order.
Let me know if I'm way off here guys, but from what I've read this is all I will need.  I'm looking forward to getting this project going  ;D

Cheers

Carlito

SirPeale

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #124 on: July 31, 2007, 08:14:41 pm »
Carlito: that's pretty simplified, but yeah, in a nutshell, that's it.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2007, 04:02:32 pm »
Well... some news incoming :)

I'm currently using a Radeon 9600 Pro to drive my two cabs.
Dualhead works, as long as your card detects both displays (you MAY need to add 75 Ohm resistors to the RGB lines).

Also some more bugfixes with floating point values. (I really hate that stuff)

onboard geforce cards (tested on an geforce 6150) works fine also.

I'll add some new options on the next release.
first would be "double 15khz" (details below) and "custom" (if you only want to use your own modelines)



'bout "double 15khz"...

there are two ways to get a 15khz resolution to 31khz.
way 1 (the vga way) is drawing each line twice (320x240 on VGA actually is 320x480)
way 2 (my way ;)) is drawing each frame twice (means 120Hz instead of 60Hz)

lo-res (15khz) on hi-res (31khz) and VGA monitors works nice
looks sweet on hi-res arcade monitors and "larger" presentation beasts
however to use an real VGA monitor you should turn the "focus" poti a bit blurry, else you will have real sharp hardware scanlines.

hacked one line in MAME to have it output each frame twice cause we use the double vertical refresh (means 320x240 @ 120hz)
it works fine without, however you won't be able to sync the speed via tripple buffer.

*EDIT*
double 25khz (512x384) should work also, as most better hi-res and presentation screens support 1024x768 at 60Hz.
we could use 512x768 at 60Hz or 512x384 at 120Hz.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2007, 04:05:27 pm by SailorSat »
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tisurame

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #126 on: August 14, 2007, 04:07:42 am »
I was trying a lot of homebrew games that run at 320x240 in fullscreen mode - and most of these games crash if I set to fullscreen - probably because the game request 320x240, and since this is not a available video mode (321x240 is) it will crash.

Is it possible to solve this problem ? Considering that I cant configure those games to run at 321x240, and not 320x240.


SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #127 on: August 14, 2007, 04:14:04 am »
Hm... Could you name an example?

Maybe we could solve this by changing resolution to 322x240.
Either the games crash because they can't find a 320x240 resolution OR the crash because they try to divide the resoltution by 2 (to calculate the mid point of the screen) which will certainly crash an integer :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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tisurame

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #128 on: August 14, 2007, 12:10:42 pm »
This homebrew game, for example...

http://agtp.romhack.net/extra/LA-MULANA.zip

Cave Story is another very popular game. It also runs at 320x240 - but the game dont crash, it switches to 640x480 (which is a bad thing anyway).

http://homepage2.nifty.com/rochet/storage/dou_1006.zip



And if you use an emulator that use Direct3D to display the picture, it will also create some problems. pSX for example (a Playstation emulator) - most Playstation games runs at 320x240, but if you configure to use 321x240 instead, this extra pixel will create weird artifacts in the picture. This problem dont happen if you use 320x240, since this is the exact resolution that the game runs at.

Another example is that new CPS3 emulator (also using Direct3D). You can also set a custom fullscreen resolution (and since CPS3 games runs at 384x240 - the closest resolution to use with Soft-15khz would be 392x240) - but these extra pixels will also create the same artifacts. The only way to fix it is turning on the bilinear filtering, but it will blur the picture.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #129 on: August 14, 2007, 12:26:02 pm »
For PSX you should use 640x240 or 512x240 (Tech Romancer for example runs with 256x240 Resolution)

'bout CPS3 Emulator...
IF the Emulator does NOT support some borders, you're stuck :(
However... Just use MAME ;)

*EDIT*
La-Mulana runs fine on my cab, although this game runs with 1024x768 resolution, not 320x240 (as stated in the readme)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 12:38:14 pm by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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tisurame

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #130 on: August 14, 2007, 04:57:47 pm »
I see...

Is it also possible to adjust each resolution according to your monitor (in order to avoid overscan) ?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #131 on: August 14, 2007, 10:59:46 pm »
That's not directly possible because each modeline would need to be finetuned AND every monitor "out there" has it's own settings.
Also it's very hard to finetune them "live". You could boot a DOS enviroment and fool around with the AdvMAME Modeline tools.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


telengard

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #132 on: August 18, 2007, 05:26:28 pm »
Just installed this util on my cab and from what I can tell mame (0.118) doesn't see any of the new resolutions.  Running mamepp w/ the -verbose flag I see all the standard resolutions but none of the low res ones.  I have a WG9500 multi-sync monitor.

Checked the wiki etc didn't see anything.

EDIT: I also have a GeForce MX 4000

~telengard
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 06:11:49 pm by telengard »
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SirPeale

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #133 on: August 18, 2007, 06:27:32 pm »
try running Mame with the -res flag, eg

mame pacman -rol -res 320x240

telengard

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #134 on: August 18, 2007, 06:29:40 pm »
try running Mame with the -res flag, eg

mame pacman -rol -res 320x240

That's what I was doing (well -resolution   :) ) and when I added -verbose I noticed it didn't print out any of the low res resolutions in the list of resolutions it found.

Tried out powerstrip and that went much worse...

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SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #135 on: August 18, 2007, 06:31:56 pm »
What ForceWare Version are you running?
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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telengard

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #136 on: August 18, 2007, 06:49:34 pm »
What ForceWare Version are you running?

93.71

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SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #137 on: August 19, 2007, 03:59:49 am »
Hm...
Should work then.

Right now I'm clueless.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


telengard

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #138 on: August 19, 2007, 12:58:35 pm »
Hm...
Should work then.

Right now I'm clueless.

Anything I can do to validate that the modes are in the registry or in the Control Panel->Display part?  Also, I wasn't sure of the behavior but can you have all 3 different Khz modes installed at the same time.  It seemed to let me do it but I wasn't sure.

I smell PEBKAC on my part........   :)   :P

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SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #139 on: August 19, 2007, 01:26:27 pm »
Yes, you can enable every frequency on multi-sync monitors.

You should give QuickRes a try.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Grauwulf

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #140 on: August 21, 2007, 08:57:59 pm »
I just wanted to think you for an excellent piece of kit.  :notworthy: I only got a few minutes to play with the software today before I had to do to work, but I had it set up quickly on win 98 running a Raedon 7500 and it looked fantastic. I can't wait until I get a chance to explore the capabilities a little farther.
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telengard

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #141 on: August 21, 2007, 10:50:22 pm »
Ok, must have been something I was doing.  Booted up the mame cab, installed soft-15khz, worked like a champ.  Given something so easy I'm not really sure how I managed to screw it up.  Run a program, press a few buttons, run mame.  All the resolutions are there now which is great.

Just fired up Crystal Castles on the new WG D9500 and WOW!!!    :notworthy:  :notworthy:  :notworthy:

Thanks so much for this tool.  I promised myself I wouldn't waste hours and days again on tweaking video modes like I did w/ AdvanceMame a few years back.  This program has allowed me to have the nice modes with none of the work.

Do you have a paypal donation thing?  I didn't see one in this thread or on the initial link you gave.

thanks again!
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Carlito

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #142 on: August 21, 2007, 11:45:22 pm »
#3 in the initial link has his paypal info.
I should be getting my machine in acouple days, and if it works as well for me as it seems to have for you, then I'll be making a donation as well.

telengard

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #143 on: August 21, 2007, 11:58:39 pm »
#3 in the initial link has his paypal info.
I should be getting my machine in acouple days, and if it works as well for me as it seems to have for you, then I'll be making a donation as well.

Ah thanks.  I was looking for a paypal button.   :)

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Newbie Q...does that mean arcoade monitor work with standard videa cards?
« Reply #144 on: September 03, 2007, 10:18:46 pm »
Wow! does that mean that arcade monitors can work with standard cards (e.g. Radeon  7000?) and we don't need to buy a 15hz card such as the Altimarc? That would be awesome!

Do you recommend using win98 or TinyXP? Does it work with the software that automatically pick the right resolution for each game?

Is there any drawback compared to using the dedicated arcade card?

Thanks again

JM
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 07:46:44 am by Jm1010 »

vindes

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #145 on: September 05, 2007, 10:23:01 pm »
This is a really great accomplishment, thanks for the great work SailorSat.

How would one create a custom resoultion for say 392x288 @ 60hz?  I read the faq, but didn't follow what all the numbers on the mode definition lines were.  Are these basically what would be generated by lrmc?

I know that would come out to 17.3khz.  Obviously not something a 15khz monitor would like, but supposedly the Betson Imperial multisync will sync to anything from 15khz to 40khz.  At least the manual says it will, and I remember reading a post somewhere on these forums from a guy that said he tested it and it worked.

Basically I'd love to see the x288 resolutions running at 60hz instead of 53hz.  Games without much on the screen look good (like pacman) but when you get stuff like Dig Dug where the whole screen is painted there's a lot of 53hz flicker.

I guess the other option would be to display the x288 resolutions at 120hz, which I think would be around 35khz.  Again, something the Betson should handle according to its manual.  (50-120hz refresh)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 10:47:41 pm by vindes »

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #146 on: September 12, 2007, 12:57:42 pm »
I was wondering if anyone had any luck using a Radeon 7200 AGP card?
This is the card I'm using and my J-Pac seems to think the right sync is being sent but I'm having some problems adjusting the H and V holds so the desktop stops scrolling.  The adjustments are very very sensitive and I can't seem to get it to hold properly.
Not sure if this is a problem with my card/Soft-15khz problem or not.  Just looking for some assurance that a Radeon 7200 should work.

Thanks for the great software,
Carlito

tisurame

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #147 on: September 18, 2007, 06:12:39 pm »
Anyone have an idea if a Geforce FX5200 or 5500 would work ?

klin

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #148 on: September 26, 2007, 12:09:16 am »
Anyone know the how to calculate the modeline resolution for Neo Geo?

Somehow I'm getting resolution stretching artifacts on Neo Geo (easily seen while playing Pulsar).

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #149 on: September 26, 2007, 04:22:59 am »
Anyone know the how to calculate the modeline resolution for Neo Geo?

Somehow I'm getting resolution stretching artifacts on Neo Geo (easily seen while playing Pulsar).

Tab ^, push several times up until you reach "Horizontal Stretch" and change it to 1.00

Thats actually a "feature" in MAME...
Neogeo does output 320 pixels, but most software use only 304, and the extra 16 pixel contain garbage.
Mamedev's decided to zoom out those pixel because they don't want to get false bug reports for the neogeo driver.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #150 on: September 28, 2007, 01:19:13 am »

Tab ^, push several times up until you reach "Horizontal Stretch" and change it to 1.00

Thats actually a "feature" in MAME...
Neogeo does output 320 pixels, but most software use only 304, and the extra 16 pixel contain garbage.
Mamedev's decided to zoom out those pixel because they don't want to get false bug reports for the neogeo driver.
[/quote]


I am currently using Mame Plus Plus and I am having problem locating "Horizontal Stretch" onscreen.

Could I get more info on your instruction?


thank you for the wonderful software...


SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #151 on: September 28, 2007, 09:00:41 am »
Today my new GFX card arrived, a nice GeForce 8600GT, so I tried the new ForceWare (162.18) and it does not show resolutions below 512x384.
However with the same ForceWare, and an (quite dusty) 6600GT it works fine with the lower resolutions.

So it seems the GeForce 8 series can't support the low pixelclock.
However 640x480 interlace works fine. So does 25kHz and 31kHz.

*EDIT*
No wait... pixelclock is NOT the problem!
NVidia just seems to "filter out" resolutions by their.. well resolution ;)
No Modes less than 512 pixels width and 384 lines height...

Now wtf are they thinking? :)

---

@klin

With ^ I mean the key left of 1, just below ESC.
If you press it, sort of a menu pops up with Volume etc.
Press Cursor Up several times until you reach Horizontal Stretch (see image) and change it to 1.00
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 09:11:43 am by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


tisurame

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #152 on: September 28, 2007, 10:56:08 pm »
I tried ForceWare 162.18 with a GeForce FX 5500 - it only showed resolutions above 640x480 (but the 640x480 resolution itself was very odd). 720x480 worked fine, though.

So, the problem was just the new drivers ? Because I returned the card thinking it would not work with low resolutions.  :hissy:

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #153 on: September 29, 2007, 06:28:02 am »
I can't say for sure.
The ForceWare 162.18 works fine with a 6600GT.

The nvidia tech support isn't very helpfull at all.
They say the 8600GT supports those low modes, however they can't figure out why they don't show up. (lol!)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


calitomans

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #154 on: October 03, 2007, 11:56:17 am »

Anyone tried this tool on a radeon x1650? I am probably going to purchase one, but wanted some feedback first...

Thx

Rickn

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #155 on: October 05, 2007, 05:53:24 pm »
So help me out, I am interested in playing with this... is the very first thread on this post the only way to finf the most up to date.
Is it at build 36, including quick res...

Sounds fantastic, now once I find the downloads, and the time I would love to evaluate it.

Thanks

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com
Always happy to help.., for the best in displays
Rick Nieman
Rick@Niemandisplays.com
www.niemandisplays.com
1023 Rife Rd Cambridge, Ontario Canada N1R5S3
519-621-1722

SailorSat

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I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


XYXZYZ

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #157 on: October 14, 2007, 09:19:58 pm »
First of all this is a fantastic program, it appears my headaches with PowerStrip are over. I love how simple Soft 15kHz is, thanks for writing it.

However, every now and then when I exit a MAME game back to the frontend (MaLa) everything goes wacky and the screen is all zig-zaggy. Reloading the MAME game will fix things, and exiting again will usually set everything back to normal. But not all the time, I've had to reboot the computer occasionally. Also, it's sort of an intermittent problem; I can't seem to pin it down to certain games or other factors.

Is this some kind of bug or is there something I can do?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 09:24:30 pm by XYXZYZ »

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #158 on: October 15, 2007, 01:47:06 am »
Hi guys I "think" I have this program working but I still need help setting things up. I'm using a radeon 9000 with a hacked vga cable to the monitor. The monitor I'm using is WG U2000 and from what I've found the specs are:
resolution 560x240
horizontal scan frequency 15.1KHz to 18KHz std
vertical scan frequency 47Hz to 63Hz

So since this isn't a digital monitor and I don't want to have to adjust the sync each time I change games or switch to the frontend I have to use a common res for everything right? I've seen people saying that you have to have the desktop set to 640x480 for this program to work but when I use that res I can't get the vert sync to lock in. If I use 640x288 it locks in but the games look squished from the sides.

Noob Questions
1. What resolution do I set the desktop, the frontend, and mame to?
2. What other important commands should I check in mame.ini?
3. Should I be selecting the 16 or 32 bit resolutions from quickres?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #159 on: October 15, 2007, 06:55:48 am »
@XYXZYZ:
Hm... Are you using 640x480 for MaLa?
Sometimes monitors don't note the switch from progressive to interlaced video and vice versa.
As far as I can say, it's not a bug, as I can't reproduce on any of my hardware.
However you're not the first person to mention this.


@dynamite:
maybe give 400x256 a try, but don't enable vsync or tripple buffer then.
as for mame.ini... normaly you would enable tripplebuffer and switchres, but in your case I woult carefully try it out.
I can't really believe there are monitors out there that really need to be finetuned to every single resolution every single time you change the game.
Try to lock the 640x240 resolution (15.8kHz, 60Hz) and then start some games (with switchres enabled).
As for bit depth... I use 32bit all the time.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.