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Author Topic: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards  (Read 360132 times)

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SailorSat

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Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« on: May 06, 2007, 09:15:58 pm »
Hi.
I just want to say that I'm releasing "Soft-15KHz" to the public.

It's a simple tool programming videocard drivers to support 15KHz AND arcade resolutions.

As on post, I support ATI Catalyst, NVidia ForceWare, Matrox PowerDesk and various 3Dfx Voodoo3/4/5 drivers.

If you're intrested in details take a look at
http://www.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 07:30:47 am by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


ahofle

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2007, 03:31:35 pm »
Thanks for coming out with this!  Although I wish you had started working on this a bit earlier.
Has any tried it out yet?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2007, 03:40:33 pm »
Well my cab runs with two radeon 9200se without problems, and I've tried about 20 different video cards, and only a hand full made any problems.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


ahofle

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 04:26:42 pm »
What about all the POST/bootup screens?  Aren't those in VGA (31khz) resolution?  Could that damage an arcade monitor?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 04:31:13 pm »
Yeah they are 31KHz, but to be honest, neither my Hantarex nor any of the TVs I had hooked up (those SCART RGB stuff rocks!) did blow up or take any damage.
They simply cannot sync to it.
You could either use a J-PAC to filter out the BIOS screens, or you could enjoy a doubled bios output (like that "feature" on the J-PAC).
A third, yet not that nice way would be to use a second (S3 Virge PCI or such) VGA Card for BIOS and OS loading screens, and then disable the S3 in Windows so your main Video Card takes over (in 15KHz).
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Silver

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2007, 02:44:37 pm »
Can you have the 15Khz, 25Khz and 31Khz+ modes available at the same time? Good for use with monitors supporting 15Khz an up....

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2007, 03:01:06 pm »
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Justin Z

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2007, 03:06:49 pm »
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.
Hi Sailor Sat,

I have tried the Soft15khz program (downloaded all three small programs from your site).  However, when I attempt to add 15khz (or 25 or 31) using the program, I get an overflow error and the program closes.

Before it closes it manages to make backup registry entries and place them in the working directory.

I have a Radeon 9550 OEM and I'm running TinyXP.  Any suggestions on what might be causing the problem?

Cheers,

~Justin

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2007, 06:08:37 pm »
Hm...
I'll need the registry backup to reproduce the error.
Guess you have some "OEM" Catalyst driver.
Should be nothing too big :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Silver

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2007, 06:15:04 pm »
yes,
15khz has most resolutions, 25khz adds two modes and 31khz replaces the 15khz interlace modes with 31khz progressive ones.

Ok Thanks.

Is there a limit to the number of custom resolutions? (I know there is via powerstrip).

Also for your double-scan avoiding resolutions e.g. 321 x 240 @ 60Hz, what is the actual displayed output? 320? 324? 328?

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2007, 06:23:51 pm »
321 size resolutions have 320 active pixels, same goes for 401 size resolutions.

Hm...
NVidia Cards are limited to 31 resolutions, because of a ForceWare Bug, but others should not.
There should be no practical limit, however I did never add more than ~40 resolutions.

I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Anubis_au

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2007, 02:38:22 am »
I just had a nice adventure with quickres and my work PC... ran it, it went to 320x200 fine, but when I went back to my normal res it was upside down... has this occured to anyone else?

Anyway, after a fun fifteen minutes fixing windows, I am back to normal and able to ask the question that has come to mind.

Namely, what is the advantage of using this software, or PowerStrip? What I mean is, say you install this software, and your PC has heaps of new video modes that it can run. My question is, can a MAME front-end switch video modes / reses as it launches a game, so that the menu is whatever res you set it, but games play at the proper resolution, or do you need to manually set the res for the screen via control panel BEFORE launching MAME / your front end (in which case, whats the point?)

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2007, 03:09:45 am »
Any emulator (and Windows game) can switch the resolution itself.

I'm using ZSNES, ZiNC, WinUAE, Project64 and "Kega Fusion" on my Cab.
Also I'm running "Guilty Gear XX #Reload", and "World of Warcraft", although 800x600 is quite hard to read on 15KHz :)

*edit*
And off course I'm running MAME on it :)

*edit again*
I've attached a screenshot of WinUAEs options showing all available resolutions
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 11:04:32 am by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


wpcmame

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2007, 08:12:50 am »
A request:

Can you add an option to exclude some of the "standard" resolutions?
(or allow me to edit the entries before sending them to the registry)

I use the following setup:
- My monitor is configured to display ~288/576 lines which means that 240/480 line modes will not fill the entire height. In mame I fill the borders on left/right with artwork so therefore I want the 240 modes to be "letterboxed" (e.g. 288x240 instead of 240x240) and also tweak the start slightly so they are centered on the monitor.
- I prefer double-sized interlace resolutions since I don't like visible scanlines (specially not in the artwork).

This means that I don't want to use many of the "standard" resolutions but still want to use your excellent tool.

Also, how can you do 800x600x50Hz in 15KHz? On my Hantarex POLO I have not been able to go higher than 47Hz.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2007, 10:45:21 am »
Can you add an option to exclude some of the "standard" resolutions?
(or allow me to edit the entries before sending them to the registry)

<cut>

This means that I don't want to use many of the "standard" resolutions but still want to use your excellent tool.
Hm...
I'll see if I can add something like this.
Thinking about a "remove 321x240" line for custom15khz.txt.
Or shall I rather add an "Install Custom" Button so it only installs your custom resolutions?

Also, how can you do 800x600x50Hz in 15KHz? On my Hantarex POLO I have not been able to go higher than 47Hz.
Hm...
Don't know, just did it and it worked :)

Code: [Select]
modeline '800x600@50,546' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync

*EDIT*
Okay, Build 31 will have a "remove X,Y" feature for the customXXkhz.txt files.
A "Install custom" button may follow sometime later :)
I also updated QuickRes (again) to ask if the new resolution is good. If it is NOT just hit ESC and it switches back.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 12:21:07 pm by SailorSat »
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Hurray Banana

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2007, 03:05:42 am »
Hi, tried this program but I also get an overflow error like Justin did when adding 15KHz modes.

I'm running winXP pro, radeon 9600 and catalyst 6.1 driver

I've attached the reg backup created as it failed (zipped).

I hope I can get this to work.
Cheers Eric

TZ Pinball, PowerDrift upright, 4 vertical Mame cab and 8 way 2 player Mame cab

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2007, 03:07:20 am »
I have tried the Soft15khz program (downloaded all three small programs from your site).  However, when I attempt to add 15khz (or 25 or 31) using the program, I get an overflow error and the program closes.

Hi, tried this program but I also get an overflow error like Justin did when adding 15KHz modes.

Cheers to you guys, I finaly figured out what's the problem.

Just the decimal separator.
In Germany "1,234" as integer would be 1.
At yours "1,234" as integer would be 1234, but "1.234" should be 1, so I just added a check for it.

Give Build 31 a try.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Joystick Jerk

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2007, 07:19:34 am »
This definitely kicks a little ass! Once I get a new monitor for my current project, I can use my much more power X800-XT card instead of Ultimarcs nerdy little 9250 chipset. Hooray for innovation!

ahofle

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2007, 10:48:15 am »
This is definite wiki material.  I added a preliminary page for this (just copied and pasted the project announcement basically) to the monitor/video area next to the powerstrip section.  Someone who knows what they're doing should fix my editing though LOL. :cheers:

JoyMonkey

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2007, 12:31:02 pm »
Good idea. I cleaned up the wiki markup a little for you.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Soft-15khz

ahofle

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2007, 12:48:02 pm »
Much better, thanks!

Hurray Banana

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2007, 01:42:50 pm »
Just got back home and tried the 31 version, which works superb.

Many thanks, nice bit of software. :cheers:
Cheers Eric

TZ Pinball, PowerDrift upright, 4 vertical Mame cab and 8 way 2 player Mame cab

JoyMonkey

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2007, 06:20:16 pm »
 :cheers:
I just got Soft-15KHz working with a GeForce2 MX400 card and Nvidia Forceware 93.71 !
I'm running WindowsXP with a desktop resolution of 512x240.

I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Joystick Jerk

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2007, 06:21:47 pm »
Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.

I also see that the installer lets you choose what modes and resolutions to install. Say I want to install all modes and resolutions, do I click Install 15khz, restart, and then go on to the next one, or can I do them all in one go? If I do have to restart in between each install, what order should I go in, 15-25-31, or 31-25-15?

ahofle

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2007, 06:36:22 pm »
:cheers:
I just got Soft-15KHz working with a GeForce2 MX400 card and Nvidia Forceware 93.71 !
I'm running WindowsXP with a desktop resolution of 512x240.

I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

You have the correct resolution -- you just need to find the V-HOLD knob in your monitor.  I had an older arcade monitor that did this too.  Strangely once it warmed up, it stopped rolling.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2007, 07:30:12 pm »
I'm using a horizontal WG 4600 monitor and I'd like to get vertical games like Pacman displaying without any hardware stretching. The resolution 352x288 would seem to be the best choice (since the regular Pacman resolution is 288 pixels high), but when I select this resolution the monitor's v-hold goes crazy. I tried the other resolutions that are 288 pixels high and get the same problem.
I don't know a whole lot about setting resolutions, but I'm guessing I need to adjust the 352x288 resolution somehow?
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Yeah, It's those 50 Hz, like ahofle said you'll need to turn V-HOLD (sometimes called V-FREQ) down until it snaps in, and hopefully, your menu resolution still works with 60Hz :)

Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.
Most old (and I mean really old) should display two half images, at least my 15" NEC does =)
Most newer CRTs should either switch off, or display a "Out of scan frequency" error.
It's quite impossible to destroy a VGA-CRT this way :)

I also see that the installer lets you choose what modes and resolutions to install. Say I want to install all modes and resolutions, do I click Install 15khz, restart, and then go on to the next one, or can I do them all in one go? If I do have to restart in between each install, what order should I go in, 15-25-31, or 31-25-15?
You can click in any order you want, the programm installs 15KHz (if enabled), then 25KHz (if enabled), and lastly 31KHz (if enabled).
So if you install 25khz, then reboot, then click 15KHz, it will reset the adapter, then install 15khz, and then install 25KHz modes.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2007, 07:30:43 pm »
*EDIT* merde... double post Oo...
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


JoyMonkey

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2007, 07:46:09 pm »
Thanks! I'll try playing with my v-hold knob next time I test it out.
I have a few other video cards that I can try also, I'll test out each one and post my results in your test thread.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2007, 07:48:17 pm »
A totaly off-topic question...
Anyone around who has ever seen a XGI Volari V5 oder V8 in real life?
I simple can't find any, only those V3...
*merde*

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I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


JoyMonkey

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2007, 07:57:52 pm »
I've never heard of those Volari cards. Did Nvidia or Ati buy XGI out or something?
There's one V8 on eBay right now, but they do seem very rare.

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2007, 08:08:21 pm »
They're still in bussiness, although most like with integrated stuff for notebooks and settop boxes.

I'm trying to get my hand on a V5 or V8 for quite some time, but can only find V3 cards.
Sure they're quite rare like a matrox parhelia... who really buys matrox today?

Going to take a look on eBay :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


steak

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2007, 10:10:04 pm »
Thank you for this awesome tool!  ;D
I am using a 27" TV connected by component cables to a dvi to component on my Nvidia Gforce6200, can I use this program to be able to get a better video quality?

« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 10:28:47 pm by steak »

Hurray Banana

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2007, 05:12:31 am »
Say I install this, and I use it while I have a standard computer CRT hooked up to the computer. Would there be any damage to the monitor if I selected a 15khz resolution? I just want to be sure, as I'll be setting up my dedicated MAME PC today or tomorrow, but I won't have an actual arcade monitor hooked up to it for a while.

JJ, I have been messing with this yesterday and I've got a normal Multisync PC monitor on the vga connector of my card (Radeon 9600) and my Scart TV (RGB) hooked up to my DVI port (through a VGA convertor and a hacked VGA cable). I setup the TV to clone the pc monitor.

When I have a standard VGA rez 640x480 the PC monitor displays fine and the TV interlaces. If I select a true 15KHz mode the PC Monitor just goes blank (out of range) and the TV shows the de-interlaced image. I haven't had a problem with the PC monitor or the TV duffing up. If I select a rez not suitable for the TV then it just doesn't sync (like Sailor Sat says). I couldn't guarantee that all monitors and TV's would be happy but this is my experience.

The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Hope this helps!
Cheers Eric

TZ Pinball, PowerDrift upright, 4 vertical Mame cab and 8 way 2 player Mame cab

SailorSat

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2007, 06:27:00 am »
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

You should give the newer QuickRes a try, If you switch to a resolution like that, simply hit ESC on the keyboard and it goes back.
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.


Joystick Jerk

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2007, 08:09:58 am »
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Couldn't you have just booted into Safe Mode and uninstalled/reinstalled your drivers from there?

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2007, 09:01:49 am »
I'd rather use VGA-Mode than Safemode, then simple start Soft-15KHz and select "uninstall" :)
I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2007, 01:20:40 pm »
The only problem I did have is when I selected a resoultion (i think it was 848 x 480) and neither the PC monitor or TV could sync. I then had to go into safe mode and uninstall the video card to reset the driver.

Couldn't you have just booted into Safe Mode and uninstalled/reinstalled your drivers from there?
I'd rather use VGA-Mode than Safemode, then simple start Soft-15KHz and select "uninstall" :)

Both valid methods, I have now downloaded the updated quick rez to get out of any unsuitable rez changes.
Cheers Eric

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2007, 08:39:10 am »
I tried out a Radeon 7500 with Soft-15KHz last night and it went much more smoothly than the two old GeForce cards I tried before. The picture looks better and a few resolutions that didn't work correctly with the GeForce cards (like the custom 292x240 resolution I tried out for Robotron) worked perfectly without any adjustments.

The GeForce cards I tried were a GeForce2 MX440 and a Visiontek GeForce3. Maybe newer Nvidia cards have better results?

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2007, 06:33:34 pm »
From what I remember, it said Intel graphics sets aren't compatible, yet, right? Is this going to any kind of priority?

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Re: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2007, 09:56:47 pm »
I'm a little confused by resolution selection, and making sure that a game picks the right resolution. What I mean is,  several resolutions are duplicated in the different Khz modes, i.e. 640x480 can be selected in either 15khz mode or 31khz mode. When setting resolutions via mame ini's or the Quickres taskbar, all it lists is the resolution though, not the khz mode. So how do I make sure a game is selecting the 15khz-mode resolution and not the 31khz-mode resolution?

  
 

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