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Question for fitness types

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KenToad:
I was wondering when something I said would make the quote-fu cut.   :)

Atomsmasher, not to be disrespectful, but Alwyn is not really being very specific in many regards.  Where he is being specific, it seems like there could be multiple interpretations, like when he mentions that the guy who created the Combat Conditioning didn't think it would sell because it wasn't that good.  Well, it could be that the layout wasn't that good or the writing wasn't that good or just that it didn't really have a predetermined niche in the market.  Or maybe he was just saying that in order to pump up his own ability to market stuff (like, oh yeah that book was total crap, but, with my marketing abilities I was able to make it a bestseller and, if you follow these easy steps, you can too).  I think it's unwise to cross the logic line and say that the guy who came up with the 3 excercises of combat conditioning doesn't think they're all that good.  At least, that's my interpretation without having actually seen the DVD.

Also, Alwyn is pushing that I'm an expert and I make money stuff just a little too far.  I also don't understand his rationale about the "fastest" method.  I guess he gets paid by the hour and that's how he sells his workout.  It's marketing speak if I've ever heard it.  Some bodies are more easily trainable than others and a lot of that is psychological.  If he doesn't want to explain himself, then why spend so long touting his own expertise and marketability? 

That said, he also just doesn't sound like the type of guy who likes to argue on the Internet, since he keeps referring to the Internet as if it were an alien planet or something.  Yeah, we all get dissed by the 14-year-olds sometimes.  It's nice that you respect him so much and defend his opinions so vigorously.

But, we aren't all 14, so I think Shorthair's point was that it's a little unfair to bring a third-party into a discussion and then to just say that you should appreciate his input simply because he's an expert.

AtomSmasher:
Just thought I'd mention that Rachel is his wife and my sister.  If you notice before the first quote I posted, "stuff in brackets is stuff I added", it was to help you and others better understand an email addressed to me.  I can see how it could be confusing though and I probably should of done it differently.  The second quote I gave about MT was from my sister who knows a bit more about nutrition then Alywn.

KT: He was writing the responses to me (not to shorthair directly) which is probably why he wasn't very specific.  I don't know much about the specifics of what are good exercises, or what makes a good workout routine and he knows that.  He was also most likely just quickly giving the responses off the top of his head.  I'm sure he could go into more detailed responses, but that would also take a lot more time to do.

As for him pushing he's an expert and getting the "fastest" results.  These days the only people he personally trains are professional athletes, so if the people he trained didn't see results superior (faster) to their previous trainer, they would quit and he wouldn't be getting paid at all.  Most of his time now is actually spent going to gyms across the country where they hired him to come and teach their trainers how to be better at what they do.  A few years ago the trainers used to come to him and pay a lot of money to essentially be interns at his gym just to learn from him, even though they often owned their own gym.  If he wasn't very good, he wouldn't be in very high demand.

I said that he generally likes to debate, which I'm fairly sure he does, but I've only ever seen him debate in real life.  This is the first time I've ever drawn him even partially into an internet debate which he apparently doesn't care much for.  Its not exactly surprising that any other attempts of online debating he's done was filled with trolls though.

Someone else on the forum actually brought his name up first, talking about how much they liked his book, so it's not like I brought him up out of the blue.  I assumed people here would appreciate hearing what someone highly respected in the physical fitness world had to say on the subject, but if I was wrong, then so be it.  I apologize for trying to bring an informed objective opinion to this discussion.  If I was trying to steamroll shorthair, then why would I put that they agreed that there is something to MT.

shorthair:
I think there's two reasons for 'fast results': time and money, and sports training (often sharing beds). I'm not alluding to anything about those when I say, I've never been interested in them. My interest is in being fit according to a broader set of criteria, and being able to easily - as in the simplest set of information possible - pass this on to whomever I'm interacting with. For humanity to be mindful, which would include physical fitness, it would make for a distinct change in human civilization. A better one.

Ken: I think Alwyn's button got pushed...but he made that up in his last response. It was much more collected. As well, AS got a little enthralled in the 'who's the expert' thing. Not a big deal, not germane to the discussion, which is why I didn't bring it up or flesh it out.

KenToad:
Ok, yeah, I had sort of forgotten that someone else had already brought him up, although I remember going "whoah" when I read that you had actually informed him of our discussion, at least partially. 

I also agree that shorthair was, ahem, splitting hairs how your sister responded, although I think what he was reacting to was the dismissive tone of what your sister wrote about metabolic typing.  And Alwyn's reaction that "how can you disagree with someone who is certified in that field" just doesn't strike me as a debate-worthy statement, nor a serious response, but we already talked about that.  I have to say: I'm kind of dismissive about typing, too, in that it doesn't interest me enough to research it.  I'm with PatrickL that too much of anything doesn't really work. 

Unfortunately, more complexity lies in that things are wrongly classified, such as candy and other such nutritionless objects being classified as food.  So, that moderation argument gets knocked around a lot without regard to the reality that certain things should not be consumed at all by people who want to lead energetic, healthy lives. 

Also, I've not really researched it heavily, but I've heard that the nutritional values of foods dramatically change after cooking.  That's mainly espoused by raw foodists, but it means that it could be that nutrition facts, etc. are calculated for pre-cooked foods and in fact are completely wrong.

So, how much raw meat do you eat, shorthair?

Demon-Seed:
Hey
Yea those devices they use are not always accurate.. I usually have a six pack and mine is all over the map. I eat clean very clean.

Bottom line is you have to diet. Not sure what the trainer said but you can do all the training in the world if you dont eat clean your wasting alot of time. ehehe I say this as I down my post workout protein shake with oatmeal :) eheh...sersiously working out is 99 % diet. really is. even if you didnt work out and diet you would lean out. Look at those super obese guys on tv..they sit in bed do dick all..but they lose hundres just by diet.

anyways I am a avant weightlifter, runner etc.. if I can help you let me know..... not to brag but I went from 220 to 165 in a matter of months...no steady at 190...some say i should compete but i just love to train and be healthy...

anyways good luck
Jim

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