Building a mame-based, real arcade.

[Benny]

I was was wondering if anyone has tried this yet and what legal issues, etc. may be involved.  I friend and I are seriously thinking about opening a small arcade, using homebuilt cabs with mame software.  Has anyone heard of anyone doing this?  Also, is this an issue as far as ROMs, hardware is concerned?  I'm assuming that it would be legal, as long as I owned the actual ROMs / boards of the games that would be available for playing - any thoughts?

                                                                    Benny.

[Buddabing]

From the MAME Legal FAQ:

Q: Can I put a computer running MAME in a cabinet and charge people to use it?

A: Absolutely not. According to the license you may not use MAME for commercial activity.

[Benny]

Damn - I can't believe I overlooked that!  I was concentrating on the Hardware way too much.  Thanks!  Guess I'll have to get this thing going the hard way - cold, hard cash for real cabs!



                                                                             B.J.R.

[ChadTower]

Real cabs are cheaper.

[bfauska]

Real cabs are cheaper.

That's a bit of a broad statement.

On a cab per cab basis, yes.  On a per game basis no way, not even a little.  For an arcade environment it is a difficult balance to achieve I suppose.  You could have 10 machines capable of playing 1000 or more games each, but the 11th customer is SOL.  If you have dedicated cabs it has to be games people like.  Good thing the answer has basically been handed to you...  NO MAME FOR PROFIT.  You may be best off with some cabs that run several boards.  I suppose you could also use the boards that run several games, but I think those are legally sketchy also, I'm sure somebody will chime in who knows better, but I remember hearing someplace that the licensing isn't quite right on those.

Good luck with you business adventure, I think that it may be a good era for some retro arcades to start opening up, the age of people who were around during the boom is prime retail and amusement demographic, I would totally dig a place that was all about being an arcade based on the early 80's to early 90's experience.  Most of us were too young to drink when we enjoyed the arcades the first time, but I think that a bar with this environment would do fairly well if it were done right.

[SithMaster]

whos to say he couldnt use mame without letting anybody know he is?  im sure someone somewhere is already doing this.

[Tiger-Heli]

whos to say he couldnt use mame without letting anybody know he is?  im sure someone somewhere is already doing this.

The question was whether it was legal, not whether he could do it.

It is still a violation of the MAME license and trademark whether he tells anyone what he is doing or not.

[Tiger-Heli]

I was was wondering if anyone has tried this yet and what legal issues, etc. may be involved.  I friend and I are seriously thinking about opening a small arcade, using homebuilt cabs with mame software.  Has anyone heard of anyone doing this?  Also, is this an issue as far as ROMs, hardware is concerned?  I'm assuming that it would be legal, as long as I owned the actual ROMs / boards of the games that would be available for playing - any thoughts?
                                                                    Benny.

As mentioned, doing anything like this involving MAME would be a major violation of the terms of the MAME license.

I am not sure of the legality of doing what you propose outside of MAME.  You say you would own the actual boards of the games that were available for playing, and I don't know that say, RetroCade has as restrictive of a license as MAME does.

My gut instinct says its a bad idea as it makes emulation more main stream and brings more focus on the issue, but the other side of my brain says the cat's been out of the bag for three or four years now, if anyone really cared.

FWIW.

[ChadTower]

On a cab per cab basis, yes.  On a per game basis no way, not even a little.

A multigame cab requires licenses.  Licenses are big $$$ if you're not operating the original dedicated existing cab.

Hardware is cheap.  Licenses for software are not.

[RayB]

Considering you need the state tax permits/stickers for operating coin-operated equipment, I'd be curious to know how that would work out. Not to mention your insurance premiums when the insurer finds out the equipment is "home built" and certainly not certified.

[bfauska]

A multigame cab requires licenses.  Licenses are big $$$ if you're not operating the original dedicated existing cab.

Hardware is cheap.  Licenses for software are not.

Good point, I was ignoring the actually make it legal aspect of it.  Paying fees to use each title would indeed add up.

[Benny]

Thanks again for all the input - I also didn't realize you needed state / city registration for amusement equipment - I thought it was only for gambling machines, etc.

I still think a retro-arcade would be a good idea, combined with a bar / concession stand, it could be a "survivable" business.  I may just have to slowly accumulate a lot of cabs and do a physical rotation.  The only thing that sucks is that you couldn't do a play-off contest or something like that, where you'd have 4 or five of the same games on the floor (like the Ms.Pacman contest in the 'Arcade 84' movie). 

Maybe a mutli-board capable "real" cab is a possibility. 

[shardian]

I also didn't realize you needed state / city registration for amusement equipment - I thought it was only for gambling machines, etc.

The man would slap a tax sticker on your bottom if they could.

[ChadTower]

Considering you need the state tax permits/stickers for operating coin-operated equipment, I'd be curious to know how that would work out. Not to mention your insurance premiums when the insurer finds out the equipment is "home built" and certainly not certified.

That is a damn good and very subtle point.  You're thinking of commercially running electric devices that aren't UL certified.  I wonder if a liability insurer would even touch it.

[RayB]

I still think a retro-arcade would be a good idea, combined with a bar / concession stand, it could be a "survivable" business.  I may just have to slowly accumulate a lot of cabs and do a physical rotation.  The only thing that sucks is that you couldn't do a play-off contest or something like that, where you'd have 4 or five of the same games on the floor (like the Ms.Pacman contest in the 'Arcade 84' movie). 

Well if you're serious, then you should be doing your due diligence (research!). You would discover this HAS been done and seems to be working.

Most popular would be Ground Kontrol, but search this forum for the arcade called 1984 (I think that's what it's called).

[ChadTower]

Is 1984 turning any profit?  That was a hobbiest venture, IIRC, and their business plan had a likely ceiling of breaking even.

[CheffoJeffo]

Don't forget Ground Kontrol

If you ARE truly interested, then I would strongly suggest grabbing the March 2007 issue of GameRoom Magazine and reading the article on Ground Kontrol. The article is based on a discussion with Clay Cowgill (who has forgotten more about classic gaming than most of us will ever know), one of the owners.

Cheers

[shardian]

Is 1984 turning any profit?  That was a hobbiest venture, IIRC, and their business plan had a likely ceiling of breaking even.

There was a good interview/writeup about 1984 in the March Issue of Gameroom magazine. In short, yes they are making money, but mainly due to their combination of entertainment and games than just the games.

[CheffoJeffo]

There was a good interview/writeup about 1984 in the March Issue of Gameroom magazine. In short, yes they are making money, but mainly due to their combination of entertainment and games than just the games.

Which page was the writeup about 1984 on  ? 

Kev -- did you short me on pages again ?!? 

 

[shardian]

There was a good interview/writeup about 1984 in the March Issue of Gameroom magazine. In short, yes they are making money, but mainly due to their combination of entertainment and games than just the games.

Which page was the writeup about 1984 on  ? 

Kev -- did you short me on pages again ?!? 

 

You had it right. My bad... 
smartass...

[CheffoJeffo]

There was a good interview/writeup about 1984 in the March Issue of Gameroom magazine. In short, yes they are making money, but mainly due to their combination of entertainment and games than just the games.

Which page was the writeup about 1984 on  ? 

Kev -- did you short me on pages again ?!? 

 

You had it right. My bad... 
smartass...

Thanks for commenting.

 

[bfauska]

smartass...

Oh, how cute is that font?

[CheffoJeffo]

smartass...

Oh, how cute is that font?

Great work so far, i would use a different style lettering though.

[ChadTower]

You're getting a little creepy now. 

[Jeff AMN]

I've always wanted to try putting an arcade up in this area to see how it does, but the county has laws against having a certain number of arcade cabinets or pinball machines in a single location. I live in a suburb and they frown on any sot of place that tends to attract groups of kids coming in from the city to hang out.

I can understand all that though. But still, I wish they'd at least give it a chance.

[CheffoJeffo]

You're getting a little creepy now. 

What exactly do you mean by that there sick freak? 

[ChadTower]

I miss the speedbags pictures.

[CheffoJeffo]

I miss the speedbags pictures.

Thanks for the kind words stinger.

[shardian]

Someone has a little too much time on their hands.

[CheffoJeffo]

Someone has a little too much time on their hands.

Some people must be really bored at home   

[Chris G]

Careful Cheffo - Saint may decide to retitle you "The Tommy Swami" soon. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Careful Cheffo - Saint may decide to retitle you "The Tommy Swami" soon. 

I was just TRYING to be funny 

[RayB]

I can understand all that though. But still, I wish they'd at least give it a chance.

Actually, I don't understand that. In my experience it's boredom and nothing to do that's responsible for a majority of mischevious teen behaviour, like resorting to drinking and bush parties, etc...

Give em a supervised place to hang out and that kind of behaviour is less likely.

[ChadTower]

He said kids "from the city", which would be someone else's kids. 

[horseboy]

I think the thinking on Jeff's town's part is "if they don't come in from the city at all, they won't cause trouble." If there aren't arcades and whatnot, they won't come around.

[geomartin]

I think the thinking on Jeff's town's part is "if they don't come in from the city at all, they won't cause trouble." If there aren't arcades and whatnot, they won't come around.

Apparently the town would prefer it's kids go to the 'city' to get into trouble.

[ChadTower]

You can tell your own kids to stay local.  You can't tell someone else's kids to stop coming around.

[Jeff AMN]

You can tell your own kids to stay local.  You can't tell someone else's kids to stop coming around.

That's just it. When you live in a very conservative area where property values are high, everybody is paranoid that "those young hooligans" are going to come in and spray paint every wall in the town. Honestly, I don't think it would be much of an issue, but I totally understand their reluctance to open the door.

[Crax]

Jeff, do you live in Bountiful?  I don't know what kind of regulations they have now, but growing up, I always went to the arcade at the card shop inside of the old 5 points mall.  They had a couple pins and about 7 machines or so.  There was another pizza place (Peter Piper's?) that had quite a few as well.  I grew up in WX and I remember someone trying to start one there but getting denied by the city.

[ChadTower]

That's just it. When you live in a very conservative area where property values are high, everybody is paranoid that "those young hooligans" are going to come in and spray paint every wall in the town. Honestly, I don't think it would be much of an issue, but I totally understand their reluctance to open the door.

Most places I lived had few arcades, and of the arcades that did exist, they were the place to buy low end drugs of the type kids get.  Almost always being sold by older kids from other towns.  In some of the arcades I remember it was hard to just hang out and play without having someone approach you at least once.  The arcade was where the kids with a little spare cash went.