Installing Linux

[shmokes]

It's time for me to wipe my hard drive and reinstall a fresh OS, but this time I'm planning on setting up a triple-boot with XP, Vista and the Ubuntu Linux Distro.

I'm a professional with XP, but my experience with Linux and Vista is practically non-existent.  Vista won't be a problem, cos it's MS and things aren't going to be too different from what I'm used to.  Linux, I'm thinking, will have a somewhat steeper learning curve.  I'll probably have questions periodically that I'll post here, but here's my first one:

1- I'm in the process of gathering everything I'll need during the installation process.  I'm getting drivers for all my hardware, for all three operating systems and putting them on discs so I'll have them on-hand throughout the installation process.  Once again, XP and Vista are easy.  I have a Dell computer and I can just go grab the drivers from their site.  They have Linux drivers too, but my lack of Linux expertise makes it more difficult to understand.  Dell lists the following drivers for Linux:  Enterprise Linux 4, Enterprise Linux 3, Linux 9.0.  Does anybody know which of these, if any, I should use with Ubuntu Linux?

[drunkatuw]

You probably don't want either of those linux drivers.  Those are probably rpms for redhat and not ubuntu.  Most likely all of your hardware will be discovered and installed correctly automatically by ubuntu.  The only thing that might cause a problem would be a SATA hard drive controller.  But most likely that will also be automatically detected.  If it's a peripheral like a sound card or wireless NIC then I wouldn't worry about it and you can just download the drivers once ubuntu is installed.  Or you could always boot back into windows to download the drivers.

But one of the coolest features of linux is a liveCD. 

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD

With this CD, you can boot into linux and see what hardware works and what doesn't.  Nothing is installed onto your machine.  If it doesn't work, just take out the CD and reboot and you'll be back in windows.

[ChadTower]

What is your UNIX knowledge level?  The concepts are the same in many ways.

[Dexter]

Shmokes,

Just installed fedora 6 linux on my internet box at home after W2K let me down for the nth time. First time user as well. Its handy enough and you'll thank yourself for putting the bit of effort in. I could swear I've less grey hair now.

Dexter

[Glaine]

I tried to install both Ubuntu 6.06 a while back when someone mentioned it here and it never would boot into ubuntu for me to install.

And I tried to install ubuntu 6.10 for 3 days straight last week for a friends computer.
I tried installing it to the hard drive from 3 different computers. None of them installed successfully. Neither of my 2 computers would even boot up all the way into the live cd and while the friends computer would boot into ubuntu occasionally, it wouldn't install all the way successfully (in its defense, I think the friends computer had kernel issues). My personal PC isn't all that old so I have no clue why it wouldn't boot int ubuntu.

I agree that when it did boot up, it appeared to find all the drivers it needed on its own, which is awesome, though I wonder how hard it will be to apply 3d card tools correctly so you can customize your display and send signal to S-Vid. Hopefully there are linux apps for your video card or it might be sort of hopeless for that.

I want to try this. I really do. But so far its been an impossibility.
I ran the disk validity utility and there were no checksum errors.
Would it help to send Amazon $10 for the ubuntu disk (which is probably the same disk I burned off their website)?

[ChadTower]

You probably have to burn that disc as a bootable image.  A lot of people miss that part of the burning process.

[shmokes]

What is your UNIX knowledge level?  The concepts are the same in many ways.

My UNIX knowledge is confined to the end bit of Jurassic part when I saw the little girl look at the GUI and say, "It's a UNIX system.  I know UNIX!"  So, basically, I know that it has a futuristic interface that lets you fly through a three dimensional world looking for the files you want in much the same way that you might look for your ride home in a packed nightclub.  So, yeah.  I know zero about UNIX.

My biggest driver concern is actually my RAID controller, which is SATA.  No support for that single piece of hardware would be a showstopper. 

[boykster]

Why ubuntu?

For decent driver support and pretty straightforward install, give Fedora Core 6 (or the latest) a shot.  I have 2 FC6 systems, both recently rebuilt with reasonably new hardware and there were no driver issues at all.

Linux is really no more difficult to install than any modern windows OS

[shmokes]

I don't know.  Cos it gets so much press, I guess.  I just threw booted to the LIVE CD and it seemed to work well.  I guess the answer to your question is that there is no reason.  But now what I want to know is, why Fedora?

[boykster]

But now what I want to know is, why Fedora?

mostly because of habit. I've been using Redhat since version 2, oh circa '96-'97?

redhat/fedora is pretty much considered a top tier platform for companies releasing software (commercial) for linux, so it's generally supported OOTB rather than relying on a high level of customization. 

I've heard good stuff bout ubuntu as well...

[HaRuMaN]

I'm running Ubuntu on my laptop (dual boot with XP)...   and I like it.  It found and installed all the correct drivers itself, including the driver for my onboard wireless. 

[ChadTower]

The last Linux I used was RedHat as well... had a couple of admin certifications from RH circa 2001 but most of that training went in one ear and out the other as my wife was due to deliver a baby any time that week.

[boykster]

I think the linux community dislikes redhat because it "sold out" and went corporate, as well as considering it bloated.  to be truly linux 1337 you have to "roll your own" distribution.....and windows mangers (ie graphic user interfaces) are for wimps, command line only.

I like redhat with either KDE or Gnome.  I used to be a KDE guy, but the latest Gnome is pretty spiffy.

[Glaine]

I mostly just haven't thought about trying other variants because this looked the easiest. I haven't looked at RedHat in sooo long, back when it was thick on using the command line and way over my head for the time. I know DOS, but I know jack about linux.

You probably have to burn that disc as a bootable image.  A lot of people miss that part of the burning process.

Naw, I got that. It boots up to the options screen every time, but when I tell it to boot into Ubuntu, it hangs somewhere in there or gives an error. I'll try to remember to look up what errors I get if any when I get home.

[shmokes]

I think I'll use Ubuntu.  I've been reading reviews and people tend to think Fedora is good but the package manager, Pirut, is awful (especially compared to Ubuntu).  Fedora has basic 3D effects which look cool, but they seem to be crippled compared to what comes out of the box with Mandriva.  Ubuntu has none (strangely, since apparently they've been a big selling point for non-techies getting interested in Linux), but it's apparently really easy to add them.

All in all, I'm pretty sold on Ubuntu, plus I already have it downloaded and put on a disc (which I've tested and the Live CD runs fine.

As far as Glain's problem, I don't know what that problem is, but it shouldn't have to do with making the CD bootable.  The distributions are already in ISO form, so when you burn that to a CD it should already make it bootable.  You don't have to tell your burning software to do anything special.

[ChadTower]

By your age you should know how to handle your own package pretty well.

[shmokes]

Variety is the spice of life.

[Dexter]

Just as a two finger salute to microsoft for the trouble windows has brought me over the years, I installed linux on the original 8GB hard drive from my xbox (now has a 160 gig hd) which now runs my internet box flawlessly. This brings me to three conclusions:

1. My anarchist streak is thankfully still alive and well

2. I really need to get out more 

3. microsofts development of windows has merely bloated and overcomplicated development of most users operating system.

And yes, please feel free to put in a point 4 guys 

[patrickl]

I like FreeBSD better. That's what we use for our webservers. I'm not sure if it's any good for desktops though.

In the university we used Minix (for our OS programming classes), but that was because the Prof who wrote it worked there.

[USSEnterprise]

When I use Linux, I use Ubuntu. I know very little of command line UNIX, and ubuntu doesn't require a lot of that. Plus, the support forums are top-notch. Very helpful people there.
Glaine, the only thing I can think of is that you computers may not be up to spec. IIRC, Ubuntu 6.06 and up need a lot of RAM and HDD space

[Glaine]

I got to play with a friends laptop with ubutnu on it yesterday shortly after posting here.

I have to say that the OS looks very sharp, especially all of the cool effects you can do to your desktop, like rotating between desktops as a big 3d cube (which sounds a lot like vista's new cue-card tab sorting "idea").

I've also noticed that packages I downloaded in prep to install were much smaller than their windows counterparts - zsnes (snes emu), fceu (nes emu), dosemu, etc were all way under a meg. I don't understand how files can get that much smaller by changing OS, but thats really cool.

As far as Glain's problem, I don't know what that problem is, but it shouldn't have to do with making the CD bootable.  The distributions are already in ISO form, so when you burn that to a CD it should already make it bootable.  You don't have to tell your burning software to do anything special.

I think it could be possible to mess up the disk creation if someone just drag-and-drop burned the iso image, so it was an OK assumption that I might have burned it wrong. But I made copies both by mounting the disk in daemon tools  and then copying that fake disk, and by telling my burner to burn a copy from the image, both of which boot up to the first screen load screen fine, but then turd out somewhere in the ubuntu boot.

Glaine, the only thing I can think of is that you computers may not be up to spec. IIRC, Ubuntu 6.06 and up need a lot of RAM and HDD space

Looking at my home PC stats, it's 512 MB ram with 114 GB hard drive free. A quick search seems to show that 6.10 requires somewhere around 3 or 4 gb hd, 256 mb ram, so thats fine too.

Next Q - anyone had trouble with windows not putting ubuntu in the boot menu? I've heard many say yes and many saying no.
Answer: Nevermind, yahoo search to the rescue...
https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/partitions-booting.html

Also, while many video cards are supported, does anyone how to get to use extra video card functions like s-video plugs? I have to use the program that comes with the video card to do that. I guess if you're lucky, the company has a linux tool otherwise your sunk?

Pics for people who haven't seen this stuff before:
Ubuntu:
http://exe.gotfrag.com/files/upload/galleryimage_14779_f.jpg
Kubuntu:
http://exe.gotfrag.com/files/upload/galleryimage_14778_f.jpg

[shmokes]

512 should be plenty.  IIRC you need like 384 or something.  Maybe less.

[boykster]

Just to clear something up...those pics of ubuntu are cool, BUT ubuntu itself doesn't render the desktop. Linux uses a sub-system called a window manager when you boot into a graphical environment.  The first pic is a window manager called Gnome, the second pic is of KDE.  You can run Gnome or KDE on pretty much any flavor of linux.  I run Gnome on my Fedora boxes...it's very nice.

I have nothing against Ubuntu, it seems to be the flavor of the month lately as far as linux distros go.  I also have lots of colleagues who use freeBSD for webservers.  BSD is related to linux, but is in a seperate development tree.

As far as why distros for emulators would be smaller on a *nix than on windows.  I dunno for sure, but windows distribution packages tend to be massively bloated compared to what they install.  Also, windows libraries (dll's and such) are generally included in distributions like those, whereas on a linux distro, they won't be and you'll be required to install them (or have them installed) already.

Good luck!

[WTB]

I (again) recently thought to try linux. In the last 6 months I've installed ubuntu on every machine that I own. As a windows user, the switch was incredibly easy. I grew up with a command line and although things have certainly changed a lot, the help is there in the forums. I'm now running a triple boot system with two windows XP installs and ubuntu 6.10. It seems that the next ubuntu release comes with a better (!) driver manager. It worked flawlessly out of the box. Detected everything.
    The easiest way with ubuntu is to install the windows systems first, (XP, Vista etc) then install ubuntu last. Ubuntu with Beryl installed (a window manager that makes the cool eyecandy) is something to behold. Its just a few clicks away using the native package manager and makes Vista look just plain silly. At this point my office computer, my laptop and my home workstation all use ubuntu. The only criticism I have is that Beryl (eyecandy) doesn't support multiple monitors. I now only use windows at work or to play Source games. 
  I'm not very familiar with other distros, but linux in general has served me well in the past. Ubuntu is very easy for an intelligent windows user willing to put the time in. My current laptop (a 500mhz beast) runs WAAAAAAYYY faster with a stripped-down ubuntu than a stripped down windows install. I don't even notice that the laptop weighs 200lbs, everything is so gracefull...

[HaRuMaN]

I think it could be possible to mess up the disk creation if someone just drag-and-drop burned the iso image, so it was an OK assumption that I might have burned it wrong. But I made copies both by mounting the disk in daemon tools  and then copying that fake disk, and by telling my burner to burn a copy from the image, both of which boot up to the first screen load screen fine, but then turd out somewhere in the ubuntu boot.

Sounds like you have a flaky CD drive.  (problems reading, not necessarily burning).  This problem happened to me, too.  I got a new cd/dvd drive, installed it, and everything worked fine after that.