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Beginner Wiring / Encoding Questions
bfauska:
--- Quote from: QuackMasterDan on March 28, 2007, 02:27:05 pm ---Now as for what kinds of physical wires?
Do I need AC wires? Is the AC wire another name for the ground? And I believe that is 18AWG wire
Also, to wire my buttons to the iPAC I should use 24AWG?
--- End quote ---
For some situations this may be over simplified, but in the case of wiring up your cp, wire is wire. AC wire, DC wire, solid core wire, electric fence wire, wire coat hanger, speaker wire, barbed wire, it will all work the same, seriously. The only thing to worry about in the control panel is if the wire is easy to work with. I wouldn't recommend using 12awg or larger (small number big wire) and I wouldn't recommend using anything smaller than 30awg (most ribbon cable is 30awg.)
If the wire is too small it becomes fragile and difficult to handle, if it is too large you won't be able to get it into clean small bunches.
In the real world the wire gauge makes more difference although you can basically never have too big of a wire. Smaller wire has more resistance and when you use it for high power applications or for long distances (resistance is cumulative) you will loose power or loose the signal that the power is sending. For our purposes the signal is a simple on or off and the level of power going through the line is tiny.
Other cable/wire ratings have to do with insulation, which is also more important in the real world, or in your audio and video and power cables in the cabinet. Insulation keeps you from getting shocked, keeps signals from interfering with each other and keeps the signals and circuits separate when wires touch. For the wires in your cp the power is once again small enough and the signal simple enough that the most basic insulation will do. The insulation only needs to keep each wire from shorting out with each other. Ribbon cable is an example of what I would consider the smallest/least insulated cable worth using.
I realize that in spite of saying I was going to simplify I probably just lost most of your attention about half way through the first paragraph, but I didn't want to be too vague. Sorry if I rambled on. :blah:
Hope this helps,
Brian
P.S. I couldn't view your pictures, it seems like I have to register to see other peoples stuff on that site, you should post your pics on www.photobucket.com or something, maybe start a project announcement thread here and post in it.
MaximRecoil:
Get some 20 gauge stranded wire at Radio Shack or wherever, and some crimp-on .187 quick disconnects to wire your control panel. If I were doing it, I'd send an email to Bob Roberts requesting something along the lines of:
(quantity = 1) Bag of 20GA 10' x 10 colors (100' total) $8.00
(quantity = 1) Bag Of 100 Red Partially Insulated .187 QDs (#3) $6.00
http://therealbobroberts.net/
The wire packs are also available in striped colors for a few dollars more, and there are several options for .187 QD's. Adjust the quantity to what you think you'll need, and be sure to thoroughly read his Ordering FAQ before emailing him.
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: QuackMasterDan on March 28, 2007, 02:27:05 pm ---First off, thankyou for the many replies. I havent had the chance to check back on the thread and now I am, here is how my setup works:
I did a kind of strange setup. I have three main admin buttons: Load, Save, and Pause.
The load and save buttons save to 4 save/load slots.
I also have P1-P4 Credit & Start
And finally 3 function buttons to do whatever (sound, get through menus, etc)
4 players x 6 buttons each
It adds up to
4 Joystics = 16 inputs
6 Buttonsx4players = 24 inputs
P1-P4 = 4x2= 8 inputs
Function x 3 = 3 inputs
Save,Pause,Load = 3 inputs
Save Slots = 4 inputs
The total is: 58 inputs.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for clarifying the inputs.
First-off, the I-PAC/4 is a 56-input, not a 54-input board as you stated earlier - yes, two of the buttons are shift inputs, but they also send a regular code. (You can't have 56 "Action" inputs and still use the shift function, but you can have 56 inputs). This is a feature, as you can use the shift function to eliminate buttons from your panel. If you have your "shift" inputs assigned to say COIN 3 and COIN 4 - the only potential problem would be if you pressed another key while COIN3 or COIN4 were depressed, it might send the wrong input. If this really would bug you, set each button so the standard and shifted button are the same thing. Then the only problem is you might (rarely) need to press Coin3 or 4 twice before it registered.
For Save Slots - Do these map to 1-4 - So you press the Load button and 1-4 and it sends F7-1, for example. In that case, (for MAME, at least), your Save Slots and your P1-P4 Start buttons are the same input and you can wire two buttons to the same I-PAC input and you now only need 54 inputs, so you are good to go.
If you are only using arcade games, you only need 4 buttons for player 3 and 4, so there's 4 less inputs. If you are looking at console emulation, you really need 8 buttons for Player 1-4, so you can't get there from here anyway.
You are two inputs above the I-PAC/4 capacity, but you have 3 inputs defined as: And finally 3 function buttons to do whatever (sound, get through menus, etc) If you don't even know what the buttons will do, is it possible you might want to use shifted inputs for them rather than having dedicated buttons on your panel with TBD functions?
If you are absolutely set on 58-inputs, you have the following options:
Hagstrom sells a 72-input encoder, but it's very expensive.
Use a PS/2 mouse hack (or trackball interface, if you will have a trackball or spinner on your panel), and use the mouse left/right button inputs for your extra buttons (if your emulator's support this, MAME does).
Hack a gamepad and use the gamepad buttons for your extra input (if your emulator's support this, MAME does).
Hack a keyboard and plug it into the passthru port on the I-PAC/4. (I don't recommend keyboard hacks in general), but for this situation, it would be okay - (except I think you said you don't want to do soldering - so that kills some of these options.) Learn to crimp wires!!!!
Buy a KeyWiz or KeyWizEco and use it with the Pass-thru port on the I-PAC/4.
Buy a GP-Wiz Eco and use it in USB along with the I-PAC/4.
Buy an I-PAC/2 and use it in the pass-thru port of the I-PAC/4.
--- Quote ---Thanks for clearing up the wiring block and crimping methods. I saw a photo of a person who attached his wires to small clamps. So it was easy to switch his buttons. How hard is this to pull off?
--- End quote ---
By small clamps, are you referring to Quick Disconnects - like these or these? or something else?
By "pull off" do you mean how hard is it to do, or physically how hard is it to remove the terminal? The above is what most of us use. They are simple to use, (get some inexpensive crimping pliers), pretty easy to take off if you ever need to, but secure enough that they won't fall off on their own.
--- Quote ---Now as for what kinds of physical wires?
Do I need AC wires? Is the AC wire another name for the ground? And I believe that is 18AWG wire
Also, to wire my buttons to the iPAC I should use 24AWG?
--- End quote ---
As others said, it really doesn't matter. Stranded wire is more flexible and easier to work with than solid, and 22-24AWG is thinner, cheaper, and easier to work with than higher (18-16AWG) gauge wire, and 32AWG will carry the signal, although it is too thin to get a good crimp on.
bfauska:
Tiger-Heli,
Good catch on the pointer about small cable being difficult to get a good crimp on. I didn't point that out, but it has haunted me in the past.
QuackMaster,
Without using Terminal Strips or soldering there is really no good way to go from a ribbon cable or other similar gauge wire to your buttons. And even with the terminal strip you need to carefully get the wire locked down. I strip about 1/2" and then twist the stripped copper back around the insulation to give the set screw something to bite into.
If you have access to the equipment, it is easy to solder and can be a very clean and useful solution to the wiring. There are several tutorials on-line and the process is fairly simple.
Goodluck and keep us posted.
Later,
Brian
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: bfauska on March 29, 2007, 12:04:15 pm ---Without using Terminal Strips or soldering there is really no good way to go from a ribbon cable or other similar gauge wire to your buttons. And even with the terminal strip you need to carefully get the wire locked down. I strip about 1/2" and then twist the stripped copper back around the insulation to give the set screw something to bite into.
--- End quote ---
In general, I recommend staying away from ribbon cable. The exception being usage with encoders like the KeyWiz Eco, Gp-Wiz Eco, and Mini-Pac that use an IDE header. And even then you end up needed terminal strips and the cost of the terminal strips more than eats up and possible cost savings from the ribbon cables.
--- Quote ---If you have access to the equipment, it is easy to solder and can be a very clean and useful solution to the wiring. There are several tutorials on-line and the process is fairly simple.
--- End quote ---
Well, I've never had any luck with it and avoid it like the plague, but yeah, it is useful if you can learn to do it!!!