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| saint:
--- Quote from: Level42 on October 28, 2007, 06:25:41 am ---Saint, do think about your role here as the owner of the forum.....if you put your trust in David that sets an example. --- End quote --- Yeah, I do think long and hard because of this and this is why you'll rarely see me endorse any particular vendor. I about wrote something like I did 3 different times but didn't exactly because of this. However, just because I run this insane asylum doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion :) I'm human too and I have a good feeling in my gut about David. I don't want to see a source of products for this community disappear because the community is giving them a hard time, if it is undeserved. A pre-order is a gamble, and I think anyone who has pre-ordered understood that. I get the vibes that if things finally go south that David will refund the pre-orders. I don't understand people griping about a pre-order on an in-development product. I'm reminded of the Big Bang Bar pinball that took years to be produced with $4500 pre-order investments on the line. I would be a lot less tolerant if I was expecting something from an established corporation. Vendors in this hobby however are almost all hobbiests doing it on the side. Jobs, kids, family life, vacations, illnesses, "I'm too damned tired to work on this today" are all things I think they're entitled to. As someone hoping for a product I don't have the time or personal ability to make, my role for a pre-order product is to decide how long I'm willing to wait. If it exceeds my personal wait threshhold, I'll ask for my money back under the terms I initially agreed to. Until the vendor in question refuses to give me my money back however, I don't think I have anything to ---smurfette--- about. It's a whole different story on a product advertised as shipping however. Then you have a reasonable expectation of a reasonable time frame and quality of work. I understood there were problems with filling orders before on some of his other products but also was under the impression all were made good, and the products delivered were of very good quality. I'd be interested to hear about anyone who had an initial problem who didn't finally get a resolution. That would be a different kettle of fish altogether. Until I hear that however, what I've got to go with on a pre-order for a product in development is my gut, and my gut tells me that so far I have some confidence in David's intentions. I hope this succeeds and if it doesn't I don't believe it will be because of lack of intent on David's part. --- saint |
| ChadTower:
The people who made Big Bang Bar aren't hobbyists. They are an established vendor and have been for a long time, before and after they shipped Big Bang Bar. The people who preordered those pins took a far more substantial risk than the people preordering these yokes and it paid off in a ridiculously profitable way... once those machines started shipping they were selling on the secondary market for 5 figures. They are still selling, when moved, in the $7000+ range. That said, I have spent substantial time playing one of their Big Bang Bars, and it's a top notch product. I'd say better quality than new Sterns. |
| saint:
Meh, you missed the forest for the trees in your way. He'd never done something like that before (completely produce a pinball machine from the prototypes and few parts that were available). It was a related, but completely different business, from what he had done before. I wish I could find the article (believe it was in GameRoom magazine) but imho it's an apt comparison. Nevermind I don't want to derail this thread. My earlier position stands. |
| Daviea:
Guys, I'm surprised by the level of response since my initial update. Listen, I understand the dread of having to wait it out for new products. Being at the center of the situation, I can attest to the fact that it's maddening at best. I'm not up to some nefarious plan designed to dupe people out of their money. What I am is an arcade hobbyist, or enthusiast if you will. One who happens to be equipped to manufacture parts made from metal, plastic, wood and even PCB materials. Granted, RAM Controls is only a very small side business to my main business, but I do treat it with a great level of respect and even...love. I've had an established and blossoming manufacturing business for many years. RAM Controls is simply an offshoot of this business which I operate during all of my free time. With this said, don't make light of my intentions or my resolve as I do spend quality time working on all of the projects. I'm in this for the long run, regardless of any dissenting views which may be voiced by people in the community. Yes, I take full responsibility for the last batch of yoke kits (and what not) which were sent out late. I explained it and dealt with it. I believe that I concluded each and every purchase satisfactorily. What we have now is a situation where one, maybe even two or three people are demanding immediate results and/or explanations for an ongoing project, completely disregarding my previous comments as nonsense. I do take exception to this as my intentions are pure. I have been accommodating on several levels. First and foremost, I have offered to issue a full refund to anyone unwilling or unable to wait for their pre-orders to materialize. Second, I have been very specific as to the nature of the hold up on this end. It's simply impossible for me to provide immediate results in the form of a finished product and I believe that I have explained this enough times to substantiate the reasoning. Sure, it's taking a long time. I side with this assessment and agree that it's overdue. However, I cannot control outside forces (ie: vendors) and to ask me to do so is unreasonable. Saint, I'm not accepting pre-orders any longer. Not for this item or any other item in the future. The attached strings are too difficult. Although, I do appreciate the obvious backup you're showing me. :-) Thanks, man. Havok, Thanks for hanging in there, dude. I'd like to wait until I get the equipment hooked up and running before I give anymore estimates. I believe, at this point, it would be irresponsible for me to offer up any guesswork. Ratzz, you're entitled to your opinion and comments....and suspicions. Like you said in a previous posting, we're all in this for the same reason. BTW, while totally unreasonable in context, the Death Star comment made me laugh. Level42, If you'd like for me to send out something ahead to you to show a little good faith, what is it that you'd like? PM me or email me. Delgar, Quality control is a big deal to me. I have no clue why the powdercoating has been such an issue, but the resultant parts I've been getting back from these people has been nothing less than unacceptable. If I gave the green light on those parts and used them as-is, I would be answering to a "you have a crappy product" thread. Not going to go there. Just hold your horses and be pleasantly surprised when the yoke is completed. :-) Ok, I think that about covers it. I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone with my products and I while I do have issues with people being disrespectful to me, I also understand and accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do appreciate constructive criticism and even differing viewpoints. Please, however, I ask that you refrain from crossing the line from having an opinion into the murky area of being rude to me, especially when it's undeserved. I will, in turn, be respectful of you in kind. David |
| Kaytrim:
David, I have been following the various threads over the last year or so about your projects. I have also been cheering you on from the sidelines. I think what you are doing is a service to the community and hope that you can get these final roadblocks out of your way. Personally I don't have much interest in what you are building but I know that there is a demand for these parts. The oddball games like StarWars, 720 and Major Havoc are icons of the industry and need be be preserved if at all possible. Your work is invaluable in the endever of this preservation. For those naysayers that are not happy with the slow and even non existent progress at times I say try to do it yourself. As Saint said, this is a hobby and hobby's need to take a back seat from time to time. David has produced products for the hobby and there are some here that have benefited from his hard work and attention to detail. I believe that David will prevail and get the Yoke and other toys built. TTFN Michael |
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