Top 10 Mame mistakes that keep getting copied from one machine to another.

[spelosi]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

I don't have a problem with gamepad hacks, but to save yourself A LOT of time you could go with an x-arcade stick, gut it and install it in your CP. They sell an adapter to use the x-arcade with Dreamcast.

I'm using a gutted tankstick in my CP and am very happy with it.

X-gaming also sells do-it-yourself kits, so you don't have to gut the x-arcade. This could save some dollars, but is only really valuable if you don't want to use their bottons. I used their buttons for a while, but now I've swapped them all out.

Anyway, it's a better option than a gamepad hack.

Good luck!

Steve

X-Arcade controls suck.  Period.  Stay far far away from them.

What sucks about them? I'd like to know. I've used mine for countless hours with no issues. The Joysticks are almost identical to Happ Supers (I have a super on my CP as well). The only difference I can see between the xarcade stick and the happ super is the actuator on the happ is a little different (small, I believe). The performance is very similar and I actually like the xarcade stick a little more.

[spelosi]

I didn't realize $$$ savings was your concern. Probably not saving any money over a gamepad hack. Just time.

[Jeff AMN]

Saying that X-Arcade sticks suck is a bit extreme. You can get a nicer product if you build your own, but there's nothing horrible about X-Arcade. A lot of the "quality" in arcade controls is actually based on preference, however. It's entirely possible that some people would prefer X-Arcade over anything homemade.

[btp2k2]

Well, I won't say they suck, but I will say my personal preference isn't X-Arcade.

I got bit by the arcade bug when my 2 Player stick arrived. And it worked great. Took it apart and gutted it and used the guts for a cab.

What I don't like about the X-Arcade has more to do with their interface card. Alot of people ---smurfette--- about the noise the buttons make, the clickity clack the sticks make....whatever, I don't even notice that when I am knee deep in alien scum or trying to reach the next power pill before Blinky catches me. Their interface card has a terrible delay. I never noticed this before I started using Ultimarc's interfaces. I have my frontend programed where you hit all six player two buttons at once, it shuts off the computer. The I-Pac controlled cab shuts down right away. The X-Arcade one used to take several presses before it decided to do it.

I ended up selling that cab to a friend..he still loves it and doesn't notice the delay, so to each his own I guess.

[Numbski]

Ok, here is a picture of the infamous rear notch attached at the bottom of this post.

Well then I figure you're going to hate my cab plan, as it's originally based off a Marvel vs Capcom cab (which has a front notch) and I actually changed things from there.  I also have a pretty deep CP. 


That said, I will be making a 2nd mame cab in the style of a Galaga/Ms. Pac Man for older games sometime in the future..

plus the X-Men vs. Street Fighter 4-player hack

Whaaaa???

Two of you didn't know about that?  Whoa.  I played it first back in 2001, I used a Kaillera-adapted version of MAME32 at the time.  I was hoping the hack was simple enough that I could recompile sdlmame to implement it, but yeah...when you would tag in or out, it would switch player control.  There was even a 6-player hack for KOF(don't recall which year...)

[(+_+)]

#10. Using various "hacks" when they just are not needed anymore. This is not 1998 anymore.  <snip>

I should probably abstain on commenting on this one, as it won't be seen as anything other than a veiled attempts to drum up business, but for the most part, this is true.  Keyboard hacks = bad and anyone will have a very difficult time convincing me otherwise.  However, a properly done gamepad hack can be ok.  The real issue is that several things need to be in place for it to be done well and that doesn't always (often?) happen.  One needs a very good gamepad to start with, as they are definitely not all created equal.  Knowing which is which is going to be found by trial and error, and by the time you know you have a good one, you might as well have saved yourself the time and frustration and just bought the dedicated part.  Then, the soldering skills come into play.  Some gamepads are simple to solder to and some are nightmares.  And if one has never (or rarely) soldered before attempting this, it's probably not going to be pretty, even on the simple ones.

But I can see the value of someone wanting to use a console in their arcade system for certain games.  Personally, I think there are plenty of games for the cab in the PC realm, but if you really need to play Virtua Tekken Apha Tag Fighter Deluxe Tournament Edition on your cabinet, there are few other options.
RandyT

Couldn't agree more with this. I've done a few keyboard hacks (more to see if I could do it than for anything else). First off, it looked ugly even though I did a nice clean job. There's the potential for key ghosting/locking because the keys are not discrete like most encoders. I ended up spending almost as much money as an decent encoder would have cost not to mention at least 4 times that amount in labor. I curse myself for having challenged me.

[ahofle]

On the monitor issue, I think you can go too far in the other direction too.  IMO a gigantic 29" monitor 6 inches from your face playing Robotron is just silly.  You shouldn't have to turn your head to see what's shooting at you. 

[DrewKaree]

Also, someone mentioned if it would be really be a cheap cabinet considering the cost of console, monitor, etc....I already have the console and a 27 inch TV that looks stunning. I am also replacing the controls on my main cabinet with new sticks and buttons, so I am using the controls that are coming off the main cab for this project. So in reality, all I have to pay for is the material to build the sucker.

This always amuses me.  "Well, I've already got all the parts lying around or will scavenge them from other games, so they're "free" and I'll end up with a cheap cab".

I'd like to say that justifying it that way actually MAKES it "cheap", but you're buying new controls for another project, so you're spending money right, or are those "free" as well?  You spent money on the controls.  You spent money on the console.  You spent money on the TV that goes inside of the cab.

So in ACTUAL reality, you've simply paid for those things already, and still have to shell out money for the rest of what you plan to wrap around that stuff.  It's still anything but cheap, unless you ACTUALLY were GIVEN (meaning you haven't at some point shelled out a dime) those items.

And sure, everyone's heard of casters.  The problem is that not everyone has their cab in the garage where they can roll it out to their automatic liftgate truck.  If you don't have your cab out in the garage, I sure hope you have better luck than 99% of people who are moving things, since even with casters, you'll have to navigate the door threshholds while moving this by yourself, meaning there's a possibility (or more likely, a probability) that you'll be beating a wall or door frame or cab or all eleventy other things as you "roll that sucker up to your F150".

As for playing streetfighter on a cab, I believe there's many who would want to play it while grasping authentic arcade controls - just not a console version, since the odds are that they first came across the game while in the arcade, not playing it on a console at his buddy's house.  There's also a number who WOULD like to play the console version.  Just not the 100% majority you're hoping there is.

And....."thought so"?    You're gonna drop that as if there couldn't possibly be questions with your "airtight" defense of your choice but just in case, you'll throw a pseudo-tough-guy retort on there to scare away responses?

Please <--see how that works?

[(+_+)]

On the monitor issue, I think you can go too far in the other direction too.  IMO a gigantic 29" monitor 6 inches from your face playing Robotron is just silly.  You shouldn't have to turn your head to see what's shooting at you. 

Yes, but a couple of feet away would look great. Enter the pedestal control panel. There can be arguments for many of the items brought up in the top 10 list and way beyond that. The important things to remember are

1) Are you happy with the end result.
2) Do you get to play the games you intended to play properly enough to say you enjoy it.

Then everything else is secondary.

[Numbski]

Those who asked, I think this is an "older than dirt" version of mame32 that includes the 4-player hacks.  I need to archive that source so I can re-implement the hack in more current code.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/6499/

[unclet]

I have the back notch in my cabinet and decided to add it since I love how the cabinet looks from the side.  Yes, it took a little extra effort to build, but it gives the cabinet a little extra craftsmanship detail which I like.  I added it purely for looks.  Moving it to another home (which I only did once) was not a problem.  Once the computer and TV were removed you can lean it down and have a friend help lift it up.  Moving around the house is easy since it is on casters.

I hacked the MS Dual Strike Sidewinder USB gamepads awhile back so I could use the pots to interface my Star Wars yoke.  I have not kept up with this area of BYOAC in awhile ..... so is there some hardware which allows this to be done without using a gampad hack?
 
As for hacking a mouse .....  I did two mouse hacks so I could add two spinners to my cabinet (ie: 2-player Warlords) and purchasing two brand new spinners is crazy money since I really do not play a lot of other spinner games.

Some of the other stuff I agree with you on   

[btp2k2]

Also, someone mentioned if it would be really be a cheap cabinet considering the cost of console, monitor, etc....I already have the console and a 27 inch TV that looks stunning. I am also replacing the controls on my main cabinet with new sticks and buttons, so I am using the controls that are coming off the main cab for this project. So in reality, all I have to pay for is the material to build the sucker.

This always amuses me.  "Well, I've already got all the parts lying around or will scavenge them from other games, so they're "free" and I'll end up with a cheap cab".

I'd like to say that justifying it that way actually MAKES it "cheap", but you're buying new controls for another project, so you're spending money right, or are those "free" as well?  You spent money on the controls.  You spent money on the console.  You spent money on the TV that goes inside of the cab.

So in ACTUAL reality, you've simply paid for those things already, and still have to shell out money for the rest of what you plan to wrap around that stuff.  It's still anything but cheap, unless you ACTUALLY were GIVEN (meaning you haven't at some point shelled out a dime) those items.

And sure, everyone's heard of casters.  The problem is that not everyone has their cab in the garage where they can roll it out to their automatic liftgate truck.  If you don't have your cab out in the garage, I sure hope you have better luck than 99% of people who are moving things, since even with casters, you'll have to navigate the door threshholds while moving this by yourself, meaning there's a possibility (or more likely, a probability) that you'll be beating a wall or door frame or cab or all eleventy other things as you "roll that sucker up to your F150".

As for playing streetfighter on a cab, I believe there's many who would want to play it while grasping authentic arcade controls - just not a console version, since the odds are that they first came across the game while in the arcade, not playing it on a console at his buddy's house.  There's also a number who WOULD like to play the console version.  Just not the 100% majority you're hoping there is.

And....."thought so"?    You're gonna drop that as if there couldn't possibly be questions with your "airtight" defense of your choice but just in case, you'll throw a pseudo-tough-guy retort on there to scare away responses?

Please <--see how that works?

You know, I started this post pretty pissed off by all the losers making such a big deal about how much I spend on my projects. It is none of your concern what I deem "Cheap" or "Expensive"....but, since you are all so concerned about it, let's just tally up the costs for this little project.....

Dreamcast - guy from work handed it to me with the disclaimer "If you can get it to work, it's yours." A simple readjustment of the laser, works like a charm. system, two controllers, about 80 games....Free

27" JVC TV - A buddy gave it to me for helping him move at the last minute. Cost...Free

2 T-Sticks 14 buttons. OK smart guy, you got me here. $53.10

Building materials. 2 sheets of MDF from Home Depot $30.00, sheet of plexi glass $20.00. various screws and brackets....maybe another 20 to 30 bucks. I still have plenty of scrap from previous cabinets. And more than enough paint from two cabinets ago. I consider that to be free since they were left over
from the project they were intended for.

Art. Marquee 15.95 CPO 29.95

Total=179.00

Ouch! That's really going to break the bank! Oh whatever shall I do?

 

[btp2k2]

and as for dinging up door frames, etc. Only an pseudo tough guy would do something like try an muscle something through a door way. If you take your time and be careful and smart, you can get just about anything through the house without causing any damage. All you gotta do is use the brain God gave ya. If you fear you won't make it through without damaging something, take the door off it's hinges....or throw a blanket over the cab. It really isn't that hard

Yet another....

[CheffoJeffo]

Is btp2k2=tranq ?

• Smart@$$ ("Thought so" ? Don't be a clown.)
• Certainty of being correct with everybody else is incorrect
• Responses ignore points being responded to (e.g. DK was pretty clear about things that you were actually given)
• Babbling ... not quite there yet, but ...

Hmmm ...

[leapinlew]

Is btp2k2=tranq ?

• Smart@$$ ("Thought so" ? Don't be a clown.)
• Certainty of being correct with everybody else is incorrect
• Responses ignore points being responded to (e.g. DK was pretty clear about things that you were actually given)
• Babbling ... not quite there yet, but ...

Hmmm ...

 

[btp2k2]

Trang? Sorry friend.....you got me confused with someone else.

You know, all I have seen since I have been in these forums is nothing but people ripping on other people and their ideas and I am tired of it. This whole thread is a perfect example. The fact that you call someone's personal preference's a "mistake" just shows your elitist attitudes. The fact that you are chastizing me for defending my preference's is yet another example. I got into this hobby to have fun, and ever since I started coming here I have been getting more and more sour. I came into this thread with a perfectly reasonable question. Ever since then, I have been attacked, had my motives questioned. Who the hell cares why I want to build a cabinet with a Dreamcast inside? It is MY call. Who cares how much it will cost? Again....MY call. and further more...who cares what design I chose to use for my cabinet? Once again, it is MY call. To attack me and call me the enemy because you don't agree with my choices is ridiculious. You people need to remember why you entered this hobby. This is all about having fun. Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously and remember that.

[CheffoJeffo]

Trang? Sorry friend.....you got me confused with someone else.

You know, all I have seen since I have been in these forums is nothing but people ripping on other people and their ideas and I am tired of it. This whole thread is a perfect example. The fact that you call someone's personal preference's a "mistake" just shows your elitist attitudes. The fact that you are chastizing me for defending my preference's is yet another example. I got into this hobby to have fun, and ever since I started coming here I have been getting more and more sour. I came into this thread with a perfectly reasonable question. Ever since then, I have been attacked, had my motives questioned. Who the hell cares why I want to build a cabinet with a Dreamcast inside? It is MY call. Who cares how much it will cost? Again....MY call. and further more...who cares what design I chose to use for my cabinet? Once again, it is MY call. To attack me and call me the enemy because you don't agree with my choices is ridiculious. You people need to remember why you entered this hobby. This is all about having fun. Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously and remember that.

Who is confusing who with someone else ?

*I* have not said anything in this thread other than comparing you to tranq, who shared your predilection for wanting to argue, dismissing others (your "thought so" vs his "anything else is settling" ... get the heck over yourself -- YOU are the one being elitist) and failing to read the posts he was responding to (e.g. stuff you really were given with zero cost).

*I* have a cabinet with a Dreamcast inside. I will have another one with a Dreamcast inside. (WTF are you dissing me about this ?)

*I* only agree with a few of Paige's points (2 & 5 come to mind immediately, with 9 being lesser and 10 applying only to PC-based cabs ... he DID say MAME, after all!).

*I* think casters are a waste of time (just wanted to say that)

*I* responded because you come off like a smart-@$$ twerp who thinks that his is *the* opininion (e.g. "thought so").

*I* don't agree with all of Paige's list, but *I* know enough to know that not everybody with a post-count above 100 does either (you DID lump everybody here in with Paige!).

*I* also know that there are reasons that Paige has these items on his list.

*I* don't think that I am your friend ... at least until you can learn to differentiate between us elitists.

*I* am having fun.

Cheers

[HaRuMaN]

I think this thread may be headed to Post Hell...   

[CheffoJeffo]

I think this thread may be headed to Post Hell...   

Maybe not ... I'm done here, so it has a chance.

[HaRuMaN]

I think this thread may be headed to Post Hell...   

Maybe not ... I'm done here, so it has a chance.

 

[DrewKaree]

You know, all I have seen since I have been in these forums is nothing but people ripping on other people and their ideas and I am tired of it.  This whole thread is a perfect example. The fact that you call someone's personal preference's a "mistake" just shows your elitist attitudes.

I think you'd have to pull things out of thin air to be able to quote the part where I said someone's personal preference is a mistake.  I simply pointed out that I find it funny what people do to justify something, and around here, that justification is that "it's free".  Maybe me pointing it out and you realizing it is what's making you mad, but I didn't call your personal preference a mistake.  My personal opinion is that it's a poor choice.  Given the game that first sprang to mind, I still stand by my opinion.  I would build a MAME cab and consider it a much better choice.

Also, it's not that you're "defending" your preferences, it's the retarded "though so" tough guy rejoinder you felt would cement your stance.  That attitude permeates every one of your posts, including your "perfectly reasonable question". 

You need to ask yourself WHY you would ask such a question in a thread that's TITLED so as to leave no doubt about what kind of response you would get from paige (or perhaps others).  Were you expecting "TOP 10 MISTAKES" to be something that DIDN'T have the potential to offend you?   

You're right, WHO CARES about what/when/where/why you are doing something.  There's an equivalent question for you as well.  WHY do you care about what/who thinks about what you are doing?  For someone getting so worked up over others' reactions, you've got a pretty strong one yourself.  You've got yourself trapped in a Catch-22, and you're adding a pretty good dollop of martyr complex on top of it.

Why dontcha take some advice I heard around here that sounded pretty good:

You. . .need to remember why you entered this hobby. This is all about having fun. Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously and remember that.

 

[(+_+)]

Touché. 

[DrewKaree]

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

[HaRuMaN]

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

PP!

[davieboynj]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

I don't have a problem with gamepad hacks, but to save yourself A LOT of time you could go with an x-arcade stick, gut it and install it in your CP. They sell an adapter to use the x-arcade with Dreamcast.

I'm using a gutted tankstick in my CP and am very happy with it.

X-gaming also sells do-it-yourself kits, so you don't have to gut the x-arcade. This could save some dollars, but is only really valuable if you don't want to use their bottons. I used their buttons for a while, but now I've swapped them all out.

Anyway, it's a better option than a gamepad hack.

Good luck!

Steve

The DIY card from X-Arcade is 60 bucks, plus another 20 for the adapter. So, how much money would I really be saving?

Also, someone mentioned if it would be really be a cheap cabinet considering the cost of console, monitor, etc....I already have the console and a 27 inch TV that looks stunning. I am also replacing the controls on my main cabinet with new sticks and buttons, so I am using the controls that are coming off the main cab for this project. So in reality, all I have to pay for is the material to build the sucker. As far as moving it? Well.....ever hear of casters? Roll that sucker up to my F150 with automatic lift gate....1 person job buddy. Sure I can play Street Fighter III on my Dreamcast, sitting on the couch with gamepad in hand...no problems....but let's be honest....who in this forum wouldn't want to play it while grasping authentic arcade controls in front of a full size arcade cabinet?

Thought so......

Yeah, the "thought so" wasn't needed, especially considering you're claiming a monopoly on truth against people with 2000+ posts.  Respect your elders, you know...

Anyways, I would still say you're not quite there with understanding what has been said, advantages/disadvantages and such.  With a serial switch you can switch EASILY between Dreamcast/xbox/PC using the db9's included in the xarcade joystick.  doing it through a hand carved db25 isn't -nearly- as sexy.  

If you're concerned about the delay on an x-arcade, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the switches.  I've seen a lot of defective x-arcade switches, and not a lot of defective encoders.  

[paigeoliver]

Actually I largely really like that design. That is not a real front notch cabinet, since the coin door area comes out and give you a place to stick a dolly. It is attractive and looks like a lot of factory cabinets. You might want to work a few alternate control panel shapes though, that one doesn't seem to mesh with the rest of the cabinet quite as well as it could.

This whole thread basically exists to give people something to talk about, and to perhaps make new builders think over some of their ideas before they make what might be mistakes for them.  As far as the bits about actual cabinet design go, I pretty much have most of the classic collecting community on my side for those. There are four basic types of upright cabinet designs. Normal slab side cabinets (Donkey Kong, PacMan, Tron, etc), monitor head cabinets (I, Robot, Return of the Jedi, Super Sprint, etc), jumbo panel cabinets (Gauntlet, TMNT, Golden Tee, Simpsons, etc), and showcase cabinets.

Each style of cabinet has its own unique type of aesthetic and functionality. But oftentimes bits from one style don't mix well with bits from another. Sometimes it just looks wrong (frankenpanel on a pac-man), other times it impairs function, such as jumbo panel cabinets with monitors mounted at 90 degree angles (there is a reason most jumbo panel cabinets had a monitor that was leaned back, it was so all 4 players could see, or so you don't smack your hand on the glass with the trackball)., and sometimes it can just be dangerous (some combinations of control panel size, cabinet base and monitor size make for a cabinet that is just aching to tip over and crush someone).

Ok, here is a picture of the infamous rear notch attached at the bottom of this post.

Well then I figure you're going to hate my cab plan, as it's originally based off a Marvel vs Capcom cab (which has a front notch) and I actually changed things from there.  I also have a pretty deep CP. 


That said, I will be making a 2nd mame cab in the style of a Galaga/Ms. Pac Man for older games sometime in the future..

plus the X-Men vs. Street Fighter 4-player hack

Whaaaa???

[RayB]

I'll read this thread after btp2k2 fixes that long URL that's stretching the page width.... 

[paigeoliver]

I LIKE using rubber floormats for control panel overlays!!  Actually, I just liked that it was a durable material that is readily available. Don't use the stuff anymore since I discovered this textured black stick on plastic stuff.

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

[DrewKaree]

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

I LIKE using rubber floormats for control panel overlays!!  Actually, I just liked that it was a durable material that is readily available. Don't use the stuff anymore since I discovered this textured black stick on plastic stuff.

Yes, yes, we know, we know   I was just hoping and praying you weren't the creator of the Nehru cab

[paigeoliver]

And Drew, have you got a whole machine up and going yet?

[DrewKaree]

And Drew, have you got a whole machine up and going yet?

Does a Time Pilot count?

I can't go get any more cabs, I gave up my cab-haulin' vehicle

[ahofle]

When I first saw this thread's subject I was expecting to see a list like this:

1)  Mahjong games
2)  Beatmania
3)  Spy Hunter 2
4)  Journey
etc

 

[Numbski]

Meh, I got up the motiving to take an hour and take the control panel top off of my cab. :|

I kinda like my layout, so I'm going to play around with this config while I plan top "2.0".   BTW, my cab pictured earlier is one of the original run TMNT cabs, but the artwork was utterly destroyed by the time I got to it.  I like the "leaned back" monitor angle myself.  Probably because many of the SF2 cabs I played as a teenager were conversions from those older 4-player cabs.

Ah well, to each their own I suppose.  Funny that hacking control pads is on the list, because I appear to be stuck between getting an X-Arcade interface, or hacking up PS2 pads and using adapters.  I'm using a 4-player ultimarc interface right now, and as much as I like the shift-input system it uses, there's just not enough inputs.

[Teebor]

Number 4 Cabinets with internal frames ??

I must argue this one, as without an internal frame there is no way my monitor could safely be mounted inside the cabinet.

My guess is that you're referring to a frame for your monitor area, and that Paige is referring to the full-cabinet types of frames.  Two different things.  If I'm wrong, you guys will say so, and I'd also like to see the ginormous monitor.

yeah basically its only a support for the monitor as I rackoned on the 3/4 inch wood not holding the 32inch hantarex I accidentally obtained in an ebay auction.  damn thing is bigger than my tv as its square and not widescreen.

I totally agree that a full internal frame/wood structure is utterly a waste and stupid as it would be a real pain in the ass to build surely  


X-arcade interface is ok if you are going to use it with a console of some sort, although you might notice a difference in response times as most people think it is slow.  Can't say I can tell though tbh.  But if I expand on mine I will have to replace it anyway.


On the angled sticks remark though its been a while since I managed to get in front of a working multiplayer arcade machine (such is the arcade black hole area that I live in) so I can't remember, how were the gauntlet sticks setup?  I always thought they were angled, but now you mention it I must be confused since it was such a long time ago I played it??

[ahofle]

They were not angled.

[BobA]

Build em anyway you want!

Some of these threads would not get so personal and step on so many toes if one were to realize that each thread should start with IN MY OPINION....    It is not God's Law or Mame Law or anyone's Law  it is just a simple opinion for discussion.  It is obvious that some here have too thin skin to partake is a discussion.

[horseboy]

Where's the bathroom?

[nostrebor]

Oh look! Controversy!

Yup, Paige is back.

 

[Santoro]

My cabs have all the allegedly forbidden bumps and notches.  I don't consider them mistakes.  They are design considerations.  I'd rather have a cab that looks like some thought went into the aesthetics than a big honkin' rectangular box that's easy to move and cheeep.

But a big honkin' rectangular box that's easy to move isn't a mistake either. It's a personal choice.

[DrewKaree]

Youse guys are all wrong.  I gots my Project Arcade book and that's the bible and saint built a per....wait, he put WHAT on the CD?