Top 10 Mame mistakes that keep getting copied from one machine to another.

[paigeoliver]

Ok, I was thinking and I decided that a good topic for discussion might be the top 10 Mame mistakes that keep getting copied from one machine to another. And of course for almost every one of these there will be a few exceptions where they are not mistakes, but not many.

#1. The two piece cabinet. I am not sure who is originally responsible for this design, in which the top half of the cabinet bolts onto the bottom half. It might have been neat for a one off design, but real games were not made this way, it really complicates the building of the cabinet, and makes it weigh a lot more. I think the idea is that it might somehow make the machine easier to move. If ease of movement is your concern than you are better off building with plywood instead of MDF.

#2. The notch at the back of the cabinet near the ground. Not sure who came up with this one either, although it is often combined with the two peice cabinet. All this notch does is make the machine harder to build, less stable, and much harder to move since you cannot get a dolly under a notched cabinet.

#3. The notch at the front of the cabinet. I see this one on cabinets with large panels, where the cabinet will bulge out on the front about a foot from the ground, and the the panel itself will bulge out past the bulge. Once again, same issues as the notch in the back of the cabinet, added compexity, less stability, and now you can't get a dolly under the front of the thing either.

#4. Cabinets with internal frames. Arcade cabinets do not need internal frames made out of 2x4s. It is just added weight with no functionality.

#5. Angled joysticks. 4 player machines did NOT angle the joysticks for player 3 and 4. The only post 1977 game us researchers could find that did this was Mercs, and playing Mercs on a side position is painful.

#6. Too much depth in the control panels. I see this a lot control panels that are just WAY too deep for no good reason. If you want to have lots of Golden Tee room you are better off just leaning your monitor back than you are having a panel that is 2 or 3 feet deep. Even dedicated 4 player machines usually didn't have panels that deep, and rarely had panels that extended more than a few inches off the side or front of the cabinet.

#7. Grafting large panels onto classic cabinets. This can be done with a slightly larger panel and still be decent. But I see it done wrong about 30 times for every time I see it done right. In worst case scenarios this makes for cabinets that are physically unstable and just waiting to tip over.

#8. Adding a dedicated 4-way, but using the WRONG one. The happ fighter sticks might have a 4-way mode on them but that mode is useless for actual 4-way games, it is really only useful for modern puzzle games, but modern puzzle games actually play fine with 8-way sticks.

#9. Tiny monitor, with a piece of black construction paper bezel. Your monitor should be the single largest expense in your cabinet, unless you are doing a really strange project. Your monitor should mostly fill the monitor bay in your cabinet. General rule of thumb is that a 1 player cabinet under 22" wide can use a 13" or 15" monitor. 23" to 25" wide needs a 19" minimum (21" if using a computer monitor), and larger than that should have a 27" or larger display.

The black piece of construction paper looks a lot better if you at least spray paint the plastic casing of that PC monitor black.

#10. Using various "hacks" when they just are not needed anymore. This is not 1998 anymore. Just say no to keyboard hacks, gamepad hacks, I'd even say to avoid mouse hacks. The real hardware is available to hook up everything these days, and it isn't even expensive. I have seen enough hacks self destruct that I just can't recommend using them at all.

[richms]

nothing wrong with the gamepad hacks, makes for simple USB hookup without buying anything else.

Keyboards, well yeah. Admin buttons only in my cab. Unsuitable for playing even with diodes.

[mwatson]

Noob Comment: In regards to using the "wrong" 4-way stick, I take it the Happ Ultimate 4-way falls in that category?

*sigh* Serves me right for ordering before I did sufficient research 

[btp2k2]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

[paigeoliver]

Noob Comment: In regards to using the "wrong" 4-way stick, I take it the Happ Ultimate 4-way falls in that category?

*sigh* Serves me right for ordering before I did sufficient research 

Yes it does. Last I checked Happ had two serviceable 4-way sticks available. The replacement stick for the Nacmo reunion and the Happ Universal stick (also sold under a dozen different names by other companies).

As for gamepad hacks. Yes, they are required if you are making a console based cabinet (although you should really ask yourself why you would be making a console based cabinet), otherwise avoid like the plague. They are fragile little beasts.

[btp2k2]

Why?

Simple....MAME doesn't support Street Fighter 3, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, Virtua Fighter 3, Dead or Alive 2, Capcom Vs. SNK, Crazy Taxi...etc....Plus, it's a cheap way to add a fun cabinet to the game room.

[paigeoliver]

Great, you have a valid reason, many people build console cabinets without one.

Why?

Simple....MAME doesn't support Street Fighter 3, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, Virtua Fighter 3, Dead or Alive 2, Capcom Vs. SNK, Crazy Taxi...etc....Plus, it's a cheap way to add a fun cabinet to the game room.

[btp2k2]

The way I see it is the more experience you can get building these things, the better you get at it. And the better you get at it, the least likely you are to commit one of the ten follies listed above =)

(In actuality, the real reason for building the DC cab is so I have something to play while my wife is hogging the main cab)

We should also add the dreaded "Frankenpanel" to the list....I hate the way a control panel looks with 1500 different buttons and gizmos on it....Unfortunately, there isn't a ton of options there

[Organic Jerk]

I just came into possession of a Dreamcast and I was considering doing the same thing since I also want MvC2 and others, but in addition to my already hooked up PC... which might be a bit of a pain since all the buttons are wired already...  I'm not sure if I should hack a gamepad or spend the extra money and get the weird "DC>PSX>IPAC" adapter thing that Andy mentions on his site.

Great list, it's very insightful.... but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "notches" ... I'm currently in the process of building and I would love to know what to avoid..

[btp2k2]

The DC adapter is about 70 pounds....not sure what that translates too in dollars...about 100?

Too much for my blood

Link

[DrewKaree]

Plus, it's a cheap way to add a fun cabinet to the game room.

Were you just putting this out there to see what it looked like?


You're buying a console, then building a couple-hundred-dollar cabinet to play something in a room that should already have a TV which you can connect a console to.....FOR FREE!

Which would be easier to move?  A console and a television, or a cabinet?

Console & TV = 1 person.
Cabinet = 1 person and a dolly, or 2 people.  Got a dolly handy?  If so, you just added to the cost of your "cheap" solution, if not, you've gotta ha......nevermind.  You've gotta be just looking for any reason to build a cab, and your wife bought that.

[vrf]

while I agree with several of those "mistakes" listed above, I'm a little uncomfortable with this idea that there's a "right" way to build a cab. Seems to violate the entire DIY spirit of this website.

If a guy wants to overbuild a little bit with an internal frame, who are you to say that it's the wrong way to do this hobby? I'd guess Pixelhugger couldn't care less if you were to tell him that his massive exotic wood cab with steel artwork "adds extra weight without functionality."

All that said, the tiny monitor/construction paper thing certainly drives me batty...

[paigeoliver]

Well, a lot of the mistakes are made by well intentioned new builders who want to make machines like real arcade games, but are copying things off of other cabinets. Some of the truly complex masterpieces out there are pretty much beyond this document. If you are making machines out of fiberglass and stainless steel then you really don't need any advice from me.

Ok, here is a picture of the infamous rear notch attached at the bottom of this post.

And for a look at a cabinet that combines almost every "design problem", then look here at the http://www.mameroom.com/product_UltimateArcadeII.asp Ultimate Arcade II. Manages to work in front notch, rear notch, 2 piece cabinet, and two deep of a control panel all into one cabinet. And to avoid insult without praise, I think the Ultimate Arcade I, their cocktail cabinet and their showcase cabinet (same website) are all really faithful designs.

[paigeoliver]

Here is an example of a front notch cabinet. And just so people don't think I am picking on everyone, this cabinet used to belong to me.

[SavannahLion]

Umm.... About the notched thing. I don't want to argue your points, I'm just not certain if it's really as simple as one would make out.

The UAI example you give for the notched back isn't a really good example at all. From what I can tell, without looking at the schematic, the cab has a "foot" extending out at the very bottom below that notch. In essence, the foot makes up for the missing material from the notch and stabilizes the cab. You can still get a dolly under that portion, except I don't know how strong it would be.

The drawing you show, however, is probably a nice example of poor cab design. The foot lacking at the back would make the cab more prone to tipping backwards. And are those wheels at the bottom?

As for the notch at the front. I asked someone about this once years ago. I think he's feeding me ---smurf-poop---, but I've been told that it's to better accomodate people in wheel chairs. Of course, I've never seen a person in a wheel chair play an arcade machine so I don't know if they can justifiably reach the controls much less be able to look over and see the screen. 

Would I do the notching on my future cab? On the back, no. I need the internal space. On the front? I am, but that's because it's part of the original cab I'm basing the design off of. The beast is massive enough as it is, notching the front appears to lower the weight.

[Teebor]

Number 4 Cabinets with internal frames ??

I must argue this one, as without an internal frame there is no way my monitor could safely be mounted inside the cabinet.
Yes the cabinet is sturdy (sorted that eventually when I realised my mistakes) but it is still not strong enough on its own to hold the monitor, so it needed additional structure just to support the monitor.  None anywhere else though.

I'm not sure of the exact weight of the monitor but it is a two man lift to move it anywhere, I'm a big bloke and I had to three stage lift it into position with support at each stage because it is just plain too heavy.

Looks great though as it f'in HUUUUUGE!!!

[paigeoliver]

How large is your monitor? That woodgrain thing in the picture above was built out of 5/8" plywood unframed and was holding a 27".

Either way, I want to see some pictures of the giant monitor.

[DrewKaree]

Number 4 Cabinets with internal frames ??

I must argue this one, as without an internal frame there is no way my monitor could safely be mounted inside the cabinet.

My guess is that you're referring to a frame for your monitor area, and that Paige is referring to the full-cabinet types of frames.  Two different things.  If I'm wrong, you guys will say so, and I'd also like to see the ginormous monitor.

[paigeoliver]

Yes, I have seen some build pages where the builder builds up a big frame out of 2x4s and then attaches all the cabinet boards to it. It is actually a LOT more difficult to build a cabinet that way because once you build a frame there is no room for error in any of the panels.

Traditional designs actually allow a little room for error, the cuts don't need to all be perfect to the millimeter.

Number 4 Cabinets with internal frames ??

I must argue this one, as without an internal frame there is no way my monitor could safely be mounted inside the cabinet.

My guess is that you're referring to a frame for your monitor area, and that Paige is referring to the full-cabinet types of frames.  Two different things.  If I'm wrong, you guys will say so, and I'd also like to see the ginormous monitor.

[Timoe]

1-4, 6 & 7 are false.  These are not mistakes but rather personal preference of design.  How boring would arcades be if they all were black squares.  I say to you paige oliver, that this is not 1988.  If a builder wants a custom or modern style to their cabinet, good for them and good for this hobby.

2-piece cabinet - If I had a one piece cabinet, I never would have been able to move it into my house by myself or get it through the doors.  If I built the machine smaller it would not have been what I really wanted.

Notches in front, on the side, the top, back or diagonally through the middle.  I'll take my notch anywhere I darned well please you nazi. 

Deep control panels - yeah we could build the CP with a depth of eight inches but then you would be so close that the players perspective on that big ol monitor would suck.

You have maybe one valid point - the angled joysticks, add to that, too many buttons but otherwise calling design choices of cabinets or individuality a mistake is just silly.

but so is your avatar 

[danny_galaga]

some valid points. but i would suggest #9 isnt so much copied from cabinet to cabinet but rather that people end up putting in small monitors for the same reason- this is what i have, that will get me started and ill replace it as soon as i can. posting a  photo at this stage is a no no in my books though 

[HaRuMaN]

I just came into possession of a Dreamcast and I was considering doing the same thing since I also want MvC2 and others, but in addition to my already hooked up PC... which might be a bit of a pain since all the buttons are wired already...  I'm not sure if I should hack a gamepad or spend the extra money and get the weird "DC>PSX>IPAC" adapter thing that Andy mentions on his site.

Great list, it's very insightful.... but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "notches" ... I'm currently in the process of building and I would love to know what to avoid..

Hack a gamepad!!!

[Bones]

I don't like the word mistake to describe somebody’s cabinet or choice of shape/structure.

I prefer the word design.

[TOK]

How did the King Of Weird Decisions return as such an expert on MAME cabs? 

[leapinlew]

I haven't been posting regularly for a long time, so I have probably missed a zillion new projects.

Theres your problem paige...

Seems like the times are changing a bit. Lots of the guys building arcade games now are building them to play multiple emulators. In fact, calling them MAME machines probably is a generic term that isn't accurate. If your working under the assumption that people are trying to build arcade machines, you'll see lots of "mistakes" but many folks are building game stations that will play many console and computer games.

Also - technology has changed the hobby. LCD's - have made monitors much thinner and has allowed for newer designs. Heres an example of a newer arcade that doesn't look anything like an old arcade but is a great machine none the less:


http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=55789.0

Things have definitely changed.

[mountain]

1-4, 6 & 7 are false.  These are not mistakes but rather personal preference of design.  How boring would arcades be if they all were black squares.  I say to you paige oliver, that this is not 1988.  If a builder wants a custom or modern style to their cabinet, good for them and good for this hobby.

Agreed. I think categorizing these as mistakes goes against everything thing this site is about. A more useful list would be actual mistakes at the build level, not the design level. Documenting mistakes such as using the t-molding slot cutter backwards, or using the wrong drill bit for acrylic is much more useful to the new guy.

This thread should be re-named paigeoliver’s top ten pet peeves.

[shardian]

About deep control panels:
The majority of MAME cabs now have a trackball for Golden Tee. A deep control panel is totally necessary for playing golden tee, bowling, etc.

[johnm160]

Can you explain angled joysticks to me please?

I am getting ready to route out the recesses for the joysticks on my 4 player panel that is based on the UAII CP plans.

Thanks

[Numbski]

Well, I may wind up re-doing my CP top, and if I do, then I need some opinions:





Originally I was just going to do a custom overlay, but I made enough mistakes building the top that I may just do it over.  No angled outer players?

Dimensions are roughly 48"x15.5"  I designed the game for maximum elbow room.  The thing that drove me nuts about fighting game cabinets, is that player 2 always seemed to be at a disadvantage, as either you had to elbow your opponent, or hold your arm at some screwy cock-eyed angle.

On new year's eve, myself and three other guys completed TMNT with no issues, and I was in the player 1 slot for that game (far left, angled) and I didn't notice at all.  Is this really such a bane?

I have the rest of the pics here:

http://www.numbski.com/cab

and the panel work I'm doing now here:

http://www.numbski.com/hacks/cab

anyhoo...   

[(+_+)]

I'd agree with some of the points but disagree with others.

I'd have to say the "notch" in the back is unecessary but I have always found it improves the look by 10%.

The front notch to me can be important (and maybe even unoticably so for those who merely copy cab designs) because it gives you a little extra foot room.

The inner frame may be a waste if you are building the traditional box cab, but as soon as you start creating more complex shaped ones, I believe it helps you, reinforces those edges and prevents any twisting or warping especially if you are using oak, pine, maple etc.

[FrizzleFried]

I wonder what Paige thinks about showcase cabinets...

 

[HaRuMaN]

Well, I may wind up re-doing my CP top, and if I do, then I need some opinions:





Originally I was just going to do a custom overlay, but I made enough mistakes building the top that I may just do it over.  No angled outer players?

Dimensions are roughly 48"x15.5"  I designed the game for maximum elbow room.  The thing that drove me nuts about fighting game cabinets, is that player 2 always seemed to be at a disadvantage, as either you had to elbow your opponent, or hold your arm at some screwy cock-eyed angle.

On new year's eve, myself and three other guys completed TMNT with no issues, and I was in the player 1 slot for that game (far left, angled) and I didn't notice at all.  Is this really such a bane?

I have the rest of the pics here:

http://www.numbski.com/cab

and the panel work I'm doing now here:

http://www.numbski.com/hacks/cab

anyhoo...   

Also, players 3 & 4 (your outer players) need 4 buttons at the very most.

[spelosi]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

I don't have a problem with gamepad hacks, but to save yourself A LOT of time you could go with an x-arcade stick, gut it and install it in your CP. They sell an adapter to use the x-arcade with Dreamcast.

I'm using a gutted tankstick in my CP and am very happy with it.

X-gaming also sells do-it-yourself kits, so you don't have to gut the x-arcade. This could save some dollars, but is only really valuable if you don't want to use their bottons. I used their buttons for a while, but now I've swapped them all out.

Anyway, it's a better option than a gamepad hack.

Good luck!

Steve

[Crowquill]

I'd agree with most of those, but I'm also one of the guys who keeps posting links to real cabs on KLOV as examples on how to do things. I think that Atari, Midway, and Konami probably have experimented with enough designs to know what worked best when using standard parts. That said, I'm very bull-headed about trying to find a better/different way to do things. But I still keep looking to multiple examples of the old cabs for reference. I think it's great that people try new things, but like the title of the post says, it's also a shame to see some of these things repeated.

The two-piece cabs have one thing going for them. For many people without nice side-art, they end up looking better than many of the traditional-style cabs. The only classic cab I can think of with a two-piece design is Gorf and that design was simplified to a 1-piece with Tron's cabinet.

The notched front started out on classic cabs as a way to have more foot-room. Unfortunately it snowballed from there. You can integrate a keyboard tray without adding an ugly lump on the front. And like the example with the Ultracade marquee, you'd break your back if you really wanted to use the coin door.

For the back, I prefer to see an extended box built on the back panel than to have the notched back. This is how my Primal Rage cab is made. But then again if you look at a Neo-Geo cab you'll see the notched back.

A 4-way Super is better than using an 8-way, but I wince whenever I see someone posting that they're going to re-create the experience of playing a real Pac-Man machine with a microswitched joystick. My MAME cab uses two beat-up 8-way wico leaf sticks.

I'm overjoyed that keyboard hacks are a thing of the past. Gamepad hacks can work. My MAME cab uses two PS1 Dual Shocks with Spiffyshoes solderless hack (much cheaper than an X-Arcade). I already had the right revisions of the controllers and my soldering skills suck. I have two of the Innovation PS-> DC adapters and adapters to use gamecube and Xbox with PS pads. When I started building my cab it was going to do everything. Now I only play arcade games on it.  Since then I've soft-modded my XBOX and now I can play the emulators on the TV where they were intended. My cocktail I'm currently building will use a mini-pac.

[HaRuMaN]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

I don't have a problem with gamepad hacks, but to save yourself A LOT of time you could go with an x-arcade stick, gut it and install it in your CP. They sell an adapter to use the x-arcade with Dreamcast.

I'm using a gutted tankstick in my CP and am very happy with it.

X-gaming also sells do-it-yourself kits, so you don't have to gut the x-arcade. This could save some dollars, but is only really valuable if you don't want to use their bottons. I used their buttons for a while, but now I've swapped them all out.

Anyway, it's a better option than a gamepad hack.

Good luck!

Steve

X-Arcade controls suck.  Period.  Stay far far away from them.

[RandyT]

I guess I'll chime in on this too   Sorry about the huge post.

#1. The two piece cabinet.

Honestly, I can't find flaw in doing this.  Innovation in cabinet design is what made the arcades what they were, and embracing that concept when one builds their own vision, be it 2 piece or more, is just dandy in my book.  It would be nice if they weren't all identical, but if you like the same design someone else uses, then there's no problem in adopting it for yourself.

#2. The notch at the back of the cabinet near the ground. <snip>
#3. The notch at the front of the cabinet. <snip>

Again, similar answer to #1, but with a caveat.  If you can't move it, it's probably not a great design.  You spent a lot of time and money building the cab, so assume that you will A: want to keep it a while, which means you will eventually want to move it, or B: want to  sell it at some point to recoup some of your investment.  Doing things that make those exceedingly difficult should probably be avoided.

#4. Cabinets with internal frames. Arcade cabinets do not need internal frames made out of 2x4s. It is just added weight with no functionality.

Hmmm....I might agree that cabinets don't need internal frames made out of 2x4's, but there is a lot of stuff in real arcade games that could be considered "framing".  The construction methods are based on some heavy duty cabinetry skills that, let's be realistic, all aren't going to possess.  Framing is a shortcut that provides stability, and when used sparingly, won't add that much to the weight, but can go a long way in keeping your cabinet from getting the "shakes."

#5. Angled joysticks.<snip>

Agreed.  If a control isn't in the correct orientation with the screen, It's probably going to be a pain for the individual using it.

#6. Too much depth in the control panels.<snip>

I have to go back to #1 on this one.  Avoid the "flying wing" designs, but if someone wants to make sure they have room for a trackball, spinner, dedicated 4-way, etc., deep panels are going to be unavoidable.  It's hard to justify not doing something solely because "it wasn't done that way in the arcades."  There were a lot of artificial limitations in cabinets designed for commercial deployment that just don't apply for a home machine. 

#7. Grafting large panels onto classic cabinets.

I can see the point with this one.  Use good design and safety sense if you must.

#8. Adding a dedicated 4-way, but using the WRONG one.<snip>

100% agree.  Don't burn the CP space with a bad control.  Makes no sense.

#9. Tiny monitor, with a piece of black construction paper bezel.<snip>

Again, 100% agree.  If you don't have the scratch for a larger monitor, build a smaller cabinet.  A 4-player monstrosity is pointless when there is a 15" screen inside and the players have a hard time seeing what's happening.  Very nice looking and functional cabinets can be built around smaller monitors.

#10. Using various "hacks" when they just are not needed anymore. This is not 1998 anymore.  <snip>

I should probably abstain from commenting on this one, as it won't be seen as anything other than a veiled attempt to drum up business, but for the most part, this is true.  Keyboard hacks = bad and anyone will have a very difficult time convincing me otherwise.  However, a properly done gamepad hack can be ok.  The real issue is that several things need to be in place for it to be done well and that doesn't always (often?) happen.  One needs a very good gamepad to start with, as they are definitely not all created equal.  Knowing which is which is going to be found by trial and error, and by the time you know you have a good one, you might as well have saved yourself the time and frustration and just bought the dedicated part.  Then, the soldering skills come into play.  Some gamepads are simple to solder to and some are nightmares.  And if one has never (or rarely) soldered before attempting this, it's probably not going to be pretty, even on the simple ones.

But I can see the value of someone wanting to use a console in their arcade system for certain games.  Personally, I think there are plenty of games for the cab in the PC realm, but if you really need to play Virtua Tekken Apha Tag Fighter Deluxe Tournament Edition on your cabinet, there are few other options.

RandyT

[Numbski]

Well, I may wind up re-doing my CP top, and if I do, then I need some opinions:





Originally I was just going to do a custom overlay, but I made enough mistakes building the top that I may just do it over.  No angled outer players?

Dimensions are roughly 48"x15.5"  I designed the game for maximum elbow room.  The thing that drove me nuts about fighting game cabinets, is that player 2 always seemed to be at a disadvantage, as either you had to elbow your opponent, or hold your arm at some screwy cock-eyed angle.

On new year's eve, myself and three other guys completed TMNT with no issues, and I was in the player 1 slot for that game (far left, angled) and I didn't notice at all.  Is this really such a bane?

I have the rest of the pics here:

http://www.numbski.com/cab

and the panel work I'm doing now here:

http://www.numbski.com/hacks/cab

anyhoo...   

Also, players 3 & 4 (your outer players) need 4 buttons at the very most.

Ah, not so fast grasshoppa..

I do need those.  I'm intending to set up Mugen for 4-player, plus the X-Men vs. Street Fighter 4-player hack, etc.

I had actually considered getting an X-Arcade interface to use on consoles, but I see that being discouraged.  Ideally, I'd like to make a logic gate so that I can push a button and have all of the controls shift from PC, to game console, to Jamma board, etc.  I know there's multi-jamma, but I really need like Multi-Jamma++++ (with all those inputs).

It's a work in progress.

[HaRuMaN]

Ah, not so fast grasshoppa..

I do need those.  I'm intending to set up Mugen for 4-player, plus the X-Men vs. Street Fighter 4-player hack, etc.

I had actually considered getting an X-Arcade interface to use on consoles, but I see that being discouraged.  Ideally, I'd like to make a logic gate so that I can push a button and have all of the controls shift from PC, to game console, to Jamma board, etc.  I know there's multi-jamma, but I really need like Multi-Jamma++++ (with all those inputs).

It's a work in progress.

Ah ok, didn't know you were running Mugen.  Also, there is an X-men vs. Street Fighter 4 player hack??  How?

[Organic Jerk]

Ok, here is a picture of the infamous rear notch attached at the bottom of this post.

Well then I figure you're going to hate my cab plan, as it's originally based off a Marvel vs Capcom cab (which has a front notch) and I actually changed things from there.  I also have a pretty deep CP. 


That said, I will be making a 2nd mame cab in the style of a Galaga/Ms. Pac Man for older games sometime in the future..

plus the X-Men vs. Street Fighter 4-player hack

Whaaaa???

[btp2k2]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

I don't have a problem with gamepad hacks, but to save yourself A LOT of time you could go with an x-arcade stick, gut it and install it in your CP. They sell an adapter to use the x-arcade with Dreamcast.

I'm using a gutted tankstick in my CP and am very happy with it.

X-gaming also sells do-it-yourself kits, so you don't have to gut the x-arcade. This could save some dollars, but is only really valuable if you don't want to use their bottons. I used their buttons for a while, but now I've swapped them all out.

Anyway, it's a better option than a gamepad hack.

Good luck!

Steve

The DIY card from X-Arcade is 60 bucks, plus another 20 for the adapter. So, how much money would I really be saving?

Also, someone mentioned if it would be really be a cheap cabinet considering the cost of console, monitor, etc....I already have the console and a 27 inch TV that looks stunning. I am also replacing the controls on my main cabinet with new sticks and buttons, so I am using the controls that are coming off the main cab for this project. So in reality, all I have to pay for is the material to build the sucker. As far as moving it? Well.....ever hear of casters? Roll that sucker up to my F150 with automatic lift gate....1 person job buddy. Sure I can play Street Fighter III on my Dreamcast, sitting on the couch with gamepad in hand...no problems....but let's be honest....who in this forum wouldn't want to play it while grasping authentic arcade controls in front of a full size arcade cabinet?

Thought so......

[spelosi]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

I don't have a problem with gamepad hacks, but to save yourself A LOT of time you could go with an x-arcade stick, gut it and install it in your CP. They sell an adapter to use the x-arcade with Dreamcast.

I'm using a gutted tankstick in my CP and am very happy with it.

X-gaming also sells do-it-yourself kits, so you don't have to gut the x-arcade. This could save some dollars, but is only really valuable if you don't want to use their bottons. I used their buttons for a while, but now I've swapped them all out.

Anyway, it's a better option than a gamepad hack.

Good luck!

Steve

X-Arcade controls suck.  Period.  Stay far far away from them.

What sucks about them? I'd like to know. I've used mine for countless hours with no issues. The Joysticks are almost identical to Happ Supers (I have a super on my CP as well). The only difference I can see between the xarcade stick and the happ super is the actuator on the happ is a little different (small, I believe). The performance is very similar and I actually like the xarcade stick a little more.

[spelosi]

I didn't realize $$$ savings was your concern. Probably not saving any money over a gamepad hack. Just time.

[Jeff AMN]

Saying that X-Arcade sticks suck is a bit extreme. You can get a nicer product if you build your own, but there's nothing horrible about X-Arcade. A lot of the "quality" in arcade controls is actually based on preference, however. It's entirely possible that some people would prefer X-Arcade over anything homemade.

[btp2k2]

Well, I won't say they suck, but I will say my personal preference isn't X-Arcade.

I got bit by the arcade bug when my 2 Player stick arrived. And it worked great. Took it apart and gutted it and used the guts for a cab.

What I don't like about the X-Arcade has more to do with their interface card. Alot of people ---smurfette--- about the noise the buttons make, the clickity clack the sticks make....whatever, I don't even notice that when I am knee deep in alien scum or trying to reach the next power pill before Blinky catches me. Their interface card has a terrible delay. I never noticed this before I started using Ultimarc's interfaces. I have my frontend programed where you hit all six player two buttons at once, it shuts off the computer. The I-Pac controlled cab shuts down right away. The X-Arcade one used to take several presses before it decided to do it.

I ended up selling that cab to a friend..he still loves it and doesn't notice the delay, so to each his own I guess.

[Numbski]

Ok, here is a picture of the infamous rear notch attached at the bottom of this post.

Well then I figure you're going to hate my cab plan, as it's originally based off a Marvel vs Capcom cab (which has a front notch) and I actually changed things from there.  I also have a pretty deep CP. 


That said, I will be making a 2nd mame cab in the style of a Galaga/Ms. Pac Man for older games sometime in the future..

plus the X-Men vs. Street Fighter 4-player hack

Whaaaa???

Two of you didn't know about that?  Whoa.  I played it first back in 2001, I used a Kaillera-adapted version of MAME32 at the time.  I was hoping the hack was simple enough that I could recompile sdlmame to implement it, but yeah...when you would tag in or out, it would switch player control.  There was even a 6-player hack for KOF(don't recall which year...)

[(+_+)]

#10. Using various "hacks" when they just are not needed anymore. This is not 1998 anymore.  <snip>

I should probably abstain on commenting on this one, as it won't be seen as anything other than a veiled attempts to drum up business, but for the most part, this is true.  Keyboard hacks = bad and anyone will have a very difficult time convincing me otherwise.  However, a properly done gamepad hack can be ok.  The real issue is that several things need to be in place for it to be done well and that doesn't always (often?) happen.  One needs a very good gamepad to start with, as they are definitely not all created equal.  Knowing which is which is going to be found by trial and error, and by the time you know you have a good one, you might as well have saved yourself the time and frustration and just bought the dedicated part.  Then, the soldering skills come into play.  Some gamepads are simple to solder to and some are nightmares.  And if one has never (or rarely) soldered before attempting this, it's probably not going to be pretty, even on the simple ones.

But I can see the value of someone wanting to use a console in their arcade system for certain games.  Personally, I think there are plenty of games for the cab in the PC realm, but if you really need to play Virtua Tekken Apha Tag Fighter Deluxe Tournament Edition on your cabinet, there are few other options.
RandyT

Couldn't agree more with this. I've done a few keyboard hacks (more to see if I could do it than for anything else). First off, it looked ugly even though I did a nice clean job. There's the potential for key ghosting/locking because the keys are not discrete like most encoders. I ended up spending almost as much money as an decent encoder would have cost not to mention at least 4 times that amount in labor. I curse myself for having challenged me.

[ahofle]

On the monitor issue, I think you can go too far in the other direction too.  IMO a gigantic 29" monitor 6 inches from your face playing Robotron is just silly.  You shouldn't have to turn your head to see what's shooting at you. 

[DrewKaree]

Also, someone mentioned if it would be really be a cheap cabinet considering the cost of console, monitor, etc....I already have the console and a 27 inch TV that looks stunning. I am also replacing the controls on my main cabinet with new sticks and buttons, so I am using the controls that are coming off the main cab for this project. So in reality, all I have to pay for is the material to build the sucker.

This always amuses me.  "Well, I've already got all the parts lying around or will scavenge them from other games, so they're "free" and I'll end up with a cheap cab".

I'd like to say that justifying it that way actually MAKES it "cheap", but you're buying new controls for another project, so you're spending money right, or are those "free" as well?  You spent money on the controls.  You spent money on the console.  You spent money on the TV that goes inside of the cab.

So in ACTUAL reality, you've simply paid for those things already, and still have to shell out money for the rest of what you plan to wrap around that stuff.  It's still anything but cheap, unless you ACTUALLY were GIVEN (meaning you haven't at some point shelled out a dime) those items.

And sure, everyone's heard of casters.  The problem is that not everyone has their cab in the garage where they can roll it out to their automatic liftgate truck.  If you don't have your cab out in the garage, I sure hope you have better luck than 99% of people who are moving things, since even with casters, you'll have to navigate the door threshholds while moving this by yourself, meaning there's a possibility (or more likely, a probability) that you'll be beating a wall or door frame or cab or all eleventy other things as you "roll that sucker up to your F150".

As for playing streetfighter on a cab, I believe there's many who would want to play it while grasping authentic arcade controls - just not a console version, since the odds are that they first came across the game while in the arcade, not playing it on a console at his buddy's house.  There's also a number who WOULD like to play the console version.  Just not the 100% majority you're hoping there is.

And....."thought so"?    You're gonna drop that as if there couldn't possibly be questions with your "airtight" defense of your choice but just in case, you'll throw a pseudo-tough-guy retort on there to scare away responses?

Please <--see how that works?

[(+_+)]

On the monitor issue, I think you can go too far in the other direction too.  IMO a gigantic 29" monitor 6 inches from your face playing Robotron is just silly.  You shouldn't have to turn your head to see what's shooting at you. 

Yes, but a couple of feet away would look great. Enter the pedestal control panel. There can be arguments for many of the items brought up in the top 10 list and way beyond that. The important things to remember are

1) Are you happy with the end result.
2) Do you get to play the games you intended to play properly enough to say you enjoy it.

Then everything else is secondary.

[Numbski]

Those who asked, I think this is an "older than dirt" version of mame32 that includes the 4-player hacks.  I need to archive that source so I can re-implement the hack in more current code.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Cupertino/6499/

[unclet]

I have the back notch in my cabinet and decided to add it since I love how the cabinet looks from the side.  Yes, it took a little extra effort to build, but it gives the cabinet a little extra craftsmanship detail which I like.  I added it purely for looks.  Moving it to another home (which I only did once) was not a problem.  Once the computer and TV were removed you can lean it down and have a friend help lift it up.  Moving around the house is easy since it is on casters.

I hacked the MS Dual Strike Sidewinder USB gamepads awhile back so I could use the pots to interface my Star Wars yoke.  I have not kept up with this area of BYOAC in awhile ..... so is there some hardware which allows this to be done without using a gampad hack?
 
As for hacking a mouse .....  I did two mouse hacks so I could add two spinners to my cabinet (ie: 2-player Warlords) and purchasing two brand new spinners is crazy money since I really do not play a lot of other spinner games.

Some of the other stuff I agree with you on   

[btp2k2]

Also, someone mentioned if it would be really be a cheap cabinet considering the cost of console, monitor, etc....I already have the console and a 27 inch TV that looks stunning. I am also replacing the controls on my main cabinet with new sticks and buttons, so I am using the controls that are coming off the main cab for this project. So in reality, all I have to pay for is the material to build the sucker.

This always amuses me.  "Well, I've already got all the parts lying around or will scavenge them from other games, so they're "free" and I'll end up with a cheap cab".

I'd like to say that justifying it that way actually MAKES it "cheap", but you're buying new controls for another project, so you're spending money right, or are those "free" as well?  You spent money on the controls.  You spent money on the console.  You spent money on the TV that goes inside of the cab.

So in ACTUAL reality, you've simply paid for those things already, and still have to shell out money for the rest of what you plan to wrap around that stuff.  It's still anything but cheap, unless you ACTUALLY were GIVEN (meaning you haven't at some point shelled out a dime) those items.

And sure, everyone's heard of casters.  The problem is that not everyone has their cab in the garage where they can roll it out to their automatic liftgate truck.  If you don't have your cab out in the garage, I sure hope you have better luck than 99% of people who are moving things, since even with casters, you'll have to navigate the door threshholds while moving this by yourself, meaning there's a possibility (or more likely, a probability) that you'll be beating a wall or door frame or cab or all eleventy other things as you "roll that sucker up to your F150".

As for playing streetfighter on a cab, I believe there's many who would want to play it while grasping authentic arcade controls - just not a console version, since the odds are that they first came across the game while in the arcade, not playing it on a console at his buddy's house.  There's also a number who WOULD like to play the console version.  Just not the 100% majority you're hoping there is.

And....."thought so"?    You're gonna drop that as if there couldn't possibly be questions with your "airtight" defense of your choice but just in case, you'll throw a pseudo-tough-guy retort on there to scare away responses?

Please <--see how that works?

You know, I started this post pretty pissed off by all the losers making such a big deal about how much I spend on my projects. It is none of your concern what I deem "Cheap" or "Expensive"....but, since you are all so concerned about it, let's just tally up the costs for this little project.....

Dreamcast - guy from work handed it to me with the disclaimer "If you can get it to work, it's yours." A simple readjustment of the laser, works like a charm. system, two controllers, about 80 games....Free

27" JVC TV - A buddy gave it to me for helping him move at the last minute. Cost...Free

2 T-Sticks 14 buttons. OK smart guy, you got me here. $53.10

Building materials. 2 sheets of MDF from Home Depot $30.00, sheet of plexi glass $20.00. various screws and brackets....maybe another 20 to 30 bucks. I still have plenty of scrap from previous cabinets. And more than enough paint from two cabinets ago. I consider that to be free since they were left over
from the project they were intended for.

Art. Marquee 15.95 CPO 29.95

Total=179.00

Ouch! That's really going to break the bank! Oh whatever shall I do?

 

[btp2k2]

and as for dinging up door frames, etc. Only an pseudo tough guy would do something like try an muscle something through a door way. If you take your time and be careful and smart, you can get just about anything through the house without causing any damage. All you gotta do is use the brain God gave ya. If you fear you won't make it through without damaging something, take the door off it's hinges....or throw a blanket over the cab. It really isn't that hard

Yet another....

[CheffoJeffo]

Is btp2k2=tranq ?

• Smart@$$ ("Thought so" ? Don't be a clown.)
• Certainty of being correct with everybody else is incorrect
• Responses ignore points being responded to (e.g. DK was pretty clear about things that you were actually given)
• Babbling ... not quite there yet, but ...

Hmmm ...

[leapinlew]

Is btp2k2=tranq ?

• Smart@$$ ("Thought so" ? Don't be a clown.)
• Certainty of being correct with everybody else is incorrect
• Responses ignore points being responded to (e.g. DK was pretty clear about things that you were actually given)
• Babbling ... not quite there yet, but ...

Hmmm ...

 

[btp2k2]

Trang? Sorry friend.....you got me confused with someone else.

You know, all I have seen since I have been in these forums is nothing but people ripping on other people and their ideas and I am tired of it. This whole thread is a perfect example. The fact that you call someone's personal preference's a "mistake" just shows your elitist attitudes. The fact that you are chastizing me for defending my preference's is yet another example. I got into this hobby to have fun, and ever since I started coming here I have been getting more and more sour. I came into this thread with a perfectly reasonable question. Ever since then, I have been attacked, had my motives questioned. Who the hell cares why I want to build a cabinet with a Dreamcast inside? It is MY call. Who cares how much it will cost? Again....MY call. and further more...who cares what design I chose to use for my cabinet? Once again, it is MY call. To attack me and call me the enemy because you don't agree with my choices is ridiculious. You people need to remember why you entered this hobby. This is all about having fun. Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously and remember that.

[CheffoJeffo]

Trang? Sorry friend.....you got me confused with someone else.

You know, all I have seen since I have been in these forums is nothing but people ripping on other people and their ideas and I am tired of it. This whole thread is a perfect example. The fact that you call someone's personal preference's a "mistake" just shows your elitist attitudes. The fact that you are chastizing me for defending my preference's is yet another example. I got into this hobby to have fun, and ever since I started coming here I have been getting more and more sour. I came into this thread with a perfectly reasonable question. Ever since then, I have been attacked, had my motives questioned. Who the hell cares why I want to build a cabinet with a Dreamcast inside? It is MY call. Who cares how much it will cost? Again....MY call. and further more...who cares what design I chose to use for my cabinet? Once again, it is MY call. To attack me and call me the enemy because you don't agree with my choices is ridiculious. You people need to remember why you entered this hobby. This is all about having fun. Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously and remember that.

Who is confusing who with someone else ?

*I* have not said anything in this thread other than comparing you to tranq, who shared your predilection for wanting to argue, dismissing others (your "thought so" vs his "anything else is settling" ... get the heck over yourself -- YOU are the one being elitist) and failing to read the posts he was responding to (e.g. stuff you really were given with zero cost).

*I* have a cabinet with a Dreamcast inside. I will have another one with a Dreamcast inside. (WTF are you dissing me about this ?)

*I* only agree with a few of Paige's points (2 & 5 come to mind immediately, with 9 being lesser and 10 applying only to PC-based cabs ... he DID say MAME, after all!).

*I* think casters are a waste of time (just wanted to say that)

*I* responded because you come off like a smart-@$$ twerp who thinks that his is *the* opininion (e.g. "thought so").

*I* don't agree with all of Paige's list, but *I* know enough to know that not everybody with a post-count above 100 does either (you DID lump everybody here in with Paige!).

*I* also know that there are reasons that Paige has these items on his list.

*I* don't think that I am your friend ... at least until you can learn to differentiate between us elitists.

*I* am having fun.

Cheers

[HaRuMaN]

I think this thread may be headed to Post Hell...   

[CheffoJeffo]

I think this thread may be headed to Post Hell...   

Maybe not ... I'm done here, so it has a chance.

[HaRuMaN]

I think this thread may be headed to Post Hell...   

Maybe not ... I'm done here, so it has a chance.

 

[DrewKaree]

You know, all I have seen since I have been in these forums is nothing but people ripping on other people and their ideas and I am tired of it.  This whole thread is a perfect example. The fact that you call someone's personal preference's a "mistake" just shows your elitist attitudes.

I think you'd have to pull things out of thin air to be able to quote the part where I said someone's personal preference is a mistake.  I simply pointed out that I find it funny what people do to justify something, and around here, that justification is that "it's free".  Maybe me pointing it out and you realizing it is what's making you mad, but I didn't call your personal preference a mistake.  My personal opinion is that it's a poor choice.  Given the game that first sprang to mind, I still stand by my opinion.  I would build a MAME cab and consider it a much better choice.

Also, it's not that you're "defending" your preferences, it's the retarded "though so" tough guy rejoinder you felt would cement your stance.  That attitude permeates every one of your posts, including your "perfectly reasonable question". 

You need to ask yourself WHY you would ask such a question in a thread that's TITLED so as to leave no doubt about what kind of response you would get from paige (or perhaps others).  Were you expecting "TOP 10 MISTAKES" to be something that DIDN'T have the potential to offend you?   

You're right, WHO CARES about what/when/where/why you are doing something.  There's an equivalent question for you as well.  WHY do you care about what/who thinks about what you are doing?  For someone getting so worked up over others' reactions, you've got a pretty strong one yourself.  You've got yourself trapped in a Catch-22, and you're adding a pretty good dollop of martyr complex on top of it.

Why dontcha take some advice I heard around here that sounded pretty good:

You. . .need to remember why you entered this hobby. This is all about having fun. Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously and remember that.

 

[(+_+)]

Touché. 

[DrewKaree]

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

[HaRuMaN]

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

PP!

[davieboynj]

Yeah, what is wrong with gamepad hacks?

I am in the process of making a cabinet running my Sega Dreamcast...you got a better solution than a gamepad hack?

I don't have a problem with gamepad hacks, but to save yourself A LOT of time you could go with an x-arcade stick, gut it and install it in your CP. They sell an adapter to use the x-arcade with Dreamcast.

I'm using a gutted tankstick in my CP and am very happy with it.

X-gaming also sells do-it-yourself kits, so you don't have to gut the x-arcade. This could save some dollars, but is only really valuable if you don't want to use their bottons. I used their buttons for a while, but now I've swapped them all out.

Anyway, it's a better option than a gamepad hack.

Good luck!

Steve

The DIY card from X-Arcade is 60 bucks, plus another 20 for the adapter. So, how much money would I really be saving?

Also, someone mentioned if it would be really be a cheap cabinet considering the cost of console, monitor, etc....I already have the console and a 27 inch TV that looks stunning. I am also replacing the controls on my main cabinet with new sticks and buttons, so I am using the controls that are coming off the main cab for this project. So in reality, all I have to pay for is the material to build the sucker. As far as moving it? Well.....ever hear of casters? Roll that sucker up to my F150 with automatic lift gate....1 person job buddy. Sure I can play Street Fighter III on my Dreamcast, sitting on the couch with gamepad in hand...no problems....but let's be honest....who in this forum wouldn't want to play it while grasping authentic arcade controls in front of a full size arcade cabinet?

Thought so......

Yeah, the "thought so" wasn't needed, especially considering you're claiming a monopoly on truth against people with 2000+ posts.  Respect your elders, you know...

Anyways, I would still say you're not quite there with understanding what has been said, advantages/disadvantages and such.  With a serial switch you can switch EASILY between Dreamcast/xbox/PC using the db9's included in the xarcade joystick.  doing it through a hand carved db25 isn't -nearly- as sexy.  

If you're concerned about the delay on an x-arcade, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the switches.  I've seen a lot of defective x-arcade switches, and not a lot of defective encoders.  

[paigeoliver]

Actually I largely really like that design. That is not a real front notch cabinet, since the coin door area comes out and give you a place to stick a dolly. It is attractive and looks like a lot of factory cabinets. You might want to work a few alternate control panel shapes though, that one doesn't seem to mesh with the rest of the cabinet quite as well as it could.

This whole thread basically exists to give people something to talk about, and to perhaps make new builders think over some of their ideas before they make what might be mistakes for them.  As far as the bits about actual cabinet design go, I pretty much have most of the classic collecting community on my side for those. There are four basic types of upright cabinet designs. Normal slab side cabinets (Donkey Kong, PacMan, Tron, etc), monitor head cabinets (I, Robot, Return of the Jedi, Super Sprint, etc), jumbo panel cabinets (Gauntlet, TMNT, Golden Tee, Simpsons, etc), and showcase cabinets.

Each style of cabinet has its own unique type of aesthetic and functionality. But oftentimes bits from one style don't mix well with bits from another. Sometimes it just looks wrong (frankenpanel on a pac-man), other times it impairs function, such as jumbo panel cabinets with monitors mounted at 90 degree angles (there is a reason most jumbo panel cabinets had a monitor that was leaned back, it was so all 4 players could see, or so you don't smack your hand on the glass with the trackball)., and sometimes it can just be dangerous (some combinations of control panel size, cabinet base and monitor size make for a cabinet that is just aching to tip over and crush someone).

Ok, here is a picture of the infamous rear notch attached at the bottom of this post.

Well then I figure you're going to hate my cab plan, as it's originally based off a Marvel vs Capcom cab (which has a front notch) and I actually changed things from there.  I also have a pretty deep CP. 


That said, I will be making a 2nd mame cab in the style of a Galaga/Ms. Pac Man for older games sometime in the future..

plus the X-Men vs. Street Fighter 4-player hack

Whaaaa???

[RayB]

I'll read this thread after btp2k2 fixes that long URL that's stretching the page width.... 

[paigeoliver]

I LIKE using rubber floormats for control panel overlays!!  Actually, I just liked that it was a durable material that is readily available. Don't use the stuff anymore since I discovered this textured black stick on plastic stuff.

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

[DrewKaree]

Oh, and I forgot that there's a #11.

No rubber floor mats for CPO's 

I LIKE using rubber floormats for control panel overlays!!  Actually, I just liked that it was a durable material that is readily available. Don't use the stuff anymore since I discovered this textured black stick on plastic stuff.

Yes, yes, we know, we know   I was just hoping and praying you weren't the creator of the Nehru cab

[paigeoliver]

And Drew, have you got a whole machine up and going yet?

[DrewKaree]

And Drew, have you got a whole machine up and going yet?

Does a Time Pilot count?

I can't go get any more cabs, I gave up my cab-haulin' vehicle

[ahofle]

When I first saw this thread's subject I was expecting to see a list like this:

1)  Mahjong games
2)  Beatmania
3)  Spy Hunter 2
4)  Journey
etc

 

[Numbski]

Meh, I got up the motiving to take an hour and take the control panel top off of my cab. :|

I kinda like my layout, so I'm going to play around with this config while I plan top "2.0".   BTW, my cab pictured earlier is one of the original run TMNT cabs, but the artwork was utterly destroyed by the time I got to it.  I like the "leaned back" monitor angle myself.  Probably because many of the SF2 cabs I played as a teenager were conversions from those older 4-player cabs.

Ah well, to each their own I suppose.  Funny that hacking control pads is on the list, because I appear to be stuck between getting an X-Arcade interface, or hacking up PS2 pads and using adapters.  I'm using a 4-player ultimarc interface right now, and as much as I like the shift-input system it uses, there's just not enough inputs.

[Teebor]

Number 4 Cabinets with internal frames ??

I must argue this one, as without an internal frame there is no way my monitor could safely be mounted inside the cabinet.

My guess is that you're referring to a frame for your monitor area, and that Paige is referring to the full-cabinet types of frames.  Two different things.  If I'm wrong, you guys will say so, and I'd also like to see the ginormous monitor.

yeah basically its only a support for the monitor as I rackoned on the 3/4 inch wood not holding the 32inch hantarex I accidentally obtained in an ebay auction.  damn thing is bigger than my tv as its square and not widescreen.

I totally agree that a full internal frame/wood structure is utterly a waste and stupid as it would be a real pain in the ass to build surely  


X-arcade interface is ok if you are going to use it with a console of some sort, although you might notice a difference in response times as most people think it is slow.  Can't say I can tell though tbh.  But if I expand on mine I will have to replace it anyway.


On the angled sticks remark though its been a while since I managed to get in front of a working multiplayer arcade machine (such is the arcade black hole area that I live in) so I can't remember, how were the gauntlet sticks setup?  I always thought they were angled, but now you mention it I must be confused since it was such a long time ago I played it??

[ahofle]

They were not angled.

[BobA]

Build em anyway you want!

Some of these threads would not get so personal and step on so many toes if one were to realize that each thread should start with IN MY OPINION....    It is not God's Law or Mame Law or anyone's Law  it is just a simple opinion for discussion.  It is obvious that some here have too thin skin to partake is a discussion.

[horseboy]

Where's the bathroom?

[nostrebor]

Oh look! Controversy!

Yup, Paige is back.

 

[Santoro]

My cabs have all the allegedly forbidden bumps and notches.  I don't consider them mistakes.  They are design considerations.  I'd rather have a cab that looks like some thought went into the aesthetics than a big honkin' rectangular box that's easy to move and cheeep.

But a big honkin' rectangular box that's easy to move isn't a mistake either. It's a personal choice.

[DrewKaree]

Youse guys are all wrong.  I gots my Project Arcade book and that's the bible and saint built a per....wait, he put WHAT on the CD? 

[BobA]

 The Saint is the Man

His word doth rule.

[polaris]

They were not angled.

sorry to be pedantic but 90 degrees is an angle isnt it , i seem to remember in school that we called them 'right angles' but hey again that was 20 yrs ago maybe my memory's not so good 
is it only bad to have a 45 degree angle ,anyone tried 90 degrees or not angled as people are calling it 

[CheffoJeffo]

sorry to be pedantic but 90 degrees is an angle isnt it , i seem to remember in school that we called them 'right angles' but hey again that was 20 yrs ago maybe my memory's not so good 
is it only bad to have a 45 degree angle ,anyone tried 90 degrees or not angled as people are calling it 

UP on P1 and P4 was still UP, wasn't it ?

[polaris]

sorry to be pedantic but 90 degrees is an angle isnt it , i seem to remember in school that we called them 'right angles' but hey again that was 20 yrs ago maybe my memory's not so good 
is it only bad to have a 45 degree angle ,anyone tried 90 degrees or not angled as people are calling it 

UP on P1 and P4 was still UP, wasn't it ?

sorry was heavy on the sarcasm there.
dude i wish i could remember how gauntlet was and have only been trying to research my project and how to orientate my sticks. in would make more sense IN MY OPINION  to mount the stick so that up was away from the player ,in the spirit of these forums i should shut up get some sticks build a panel post the project and let people know how i feel it works. with that, thats me told.

[CheffoJeffo]

sorry was heavy on the sarcasm there.
dude i wish i could remember how gauntlet was and have only been trying to research my project and how to orientate my sticks. in would make more sense IN MY OPINION  to mount the stick so that up was away from the player ,in the spirit of these forums i should shut up get some sticks build a panel post the project and let people know how i feel it works. with that, thats me told.

It was an honest question, I remember UP being UP (towards the screen), but that doesn't mean it was so ...

[polaris]

hey cheffojeffo
i was referring to me being sarcastic about the angles ,hope i didnt sound like i was having a pop at you, apologise if i did.
its really bugging me i can remember the arcade gauntlet was in, where it was in the arcade ,i have this image in my mind im there playing it and i still cant bloody remember how they were.
we differ in our opinion but stand united in the fact we just cant remember for sure

[CheffoJeffo]

hey cheffojeffo
i was referring to me being sarcastic about the angles ,hope i didnt sound like i was having a pop at you, apologise if i did.

If you were, then more power to you (you're likely to get some applause) !!

Not taking any offense in any event.

Cheers.

[DrewKaree]

hey cheffojeffo
i was referring to me being sarcastic about the angles ,hope i didnt sound like i was having a pop at you, apologise if i did.

If you were, then more power to you (you're likely to get some applause) !!

Not taking any offense in any event.

Cheers.

Polaris, you want I should take a few shots at him fer ya?  I heard some things about his mom I can throw out there...she limps and whatnot.  You just say the word and ....hey Cheffo, put that brick down! 


RUUUUUUUNNNNNN!

[CheffoJeffo]

C'mon Drew ... throwing bricks is so juvenile ... and I don't have any ... I throw cabs (but only those with internal frames, notches or tiny monitors).

 

[polaris]

(you're likely to get some applause) !!

in which case i withdraw my apology
 cheers drew n cheffo good to know who i can have some friendly banter with whilst i pull my hair out trying to decide on my plans, so many good ideas round here its frustrating

[KenToad]

Hey Drew and Cheffo, don't gang up on BTP ... can't remember his name ... that's not cool.  Let him make his Dreamcast cabinet and be happy.  He's certainly not the first and won't be the last. 

I'll try to respond to this thread later, but I have to say that I didn't make any of these mistakes. 

[vrf]

Hey Drew and Cheffo, don't gang up on BTP ... can't remember his name ... that's not cool.  Let him make his Dreamcast cabinet and be happy.  He's certainly not the first and won't be the last.

I agree. Pissing on other people's projects because YOU wouldn't do a similiar project is about as lame as it gets.

Now, if he used a tiny monitor.... that's another story. 

[ArcadeMaze]

X

[CheffoJeffo]

Hey Drew and Cheffo, don't gang up on BTP ... can't remember his name ... that's not cool.  Let him make his Dreamcast cabinet and be happy.  He's certainly not the first and won't be the last.

I agree. Pissing on other people's projects because YOU wouldn't do a similiar project is about as lame as it gets.

Now, if he used a tiny monitor.... that's another story. 

WTF ?

KenToad or vrf, please show me where I pissed on his project (OK, the casters you have me on, but I really do think they are a waste of time).

I pissed on his obnoxious "thought so" attitude, sure enough, but I never mentionned cab design except to say that I *HAVE* a Dreamcast in a cab.

Cheers.

[vrf]

I actually only read through Drew's little rant, so sorry to lump you in with that.

[CheffoJeffo]

I actually only read through Drew's little rant, so sorry to lump you in with that.

Did you read gt$%$'s rants ? THAT is about as lame as it gets (and his bone of contention seems to be the Dreamcast in the cab, which isn't relevant in a thread about MAME cabs anyway).

Do we just assume that, simply because two members have higher post counts and that they both disagree with the same crappy "thought so" attitude that they are meeting behind closed doors, wearing funny hats with secret handshakes and planning to gang up on innocent newbs ? Or, does the dufus simply deserve a response ?

C'mon, people. RTFT.

Cheers

[KenToad]

Is btp2k2=tranq ?

• Smart@$$ ("Thought so" ? Don't be a clown.)
• Certainty of being correct with everybody else is incorrect
• Responses ignore points being responded to (e.g. DK was pretty clear about things that you were actually given)
• Babbling ... not quite there yet, but ...

Hmmm ...

I guess the first pissing would be accusing him of being someone else, unless you have proof.   

Don't get me wrong.  I respect you and Drew and would listen to you both for good advice, but I think you guys jumped on the new guy for building a Dreamcast cabinet, which is not really unheard of around here.  On top of that, you call him a smart-whatever and accuse him of nearly babbling, like you're his superior or something.  I have to say that Drew was a little Right Said Fred in this case.  His initial comments certainly could have come off a little friendlier, especially since we're not in EE right now and we're dealing with sensitive issues, like people's dreams of building and designing something they will love for many years to come.  It is funny that Drew can come off so hard without showing any of his own cabinet building ingenuity actually in practice.    

(Remember, Drew, I already said that I respect you, and I do.) 

This post is not meant to create enmity. 

[bfauska]

Do we just assume that, simply because two members have higher post counts and that they both disagree with the same crappy "thought so" attitude that they are meeting behind closed doors, wearing funny hats with secret handshakes and planning to gang up on innocent newbs ?

I don't know about everybody else, but I certainly thought you guys were meeting and handshaking in your funny hats.

I think that the A#1 mistake somebody can make is to do something in their design without knowing why they do it, the effects of doing it , or the other options to doing it.

Oh, yeah... and forgetting to bring and TAKE their salt grains while reading everybody else's posts. Those grains of salt are the things that keep this place sane, I think that this is one of the friendliest forums I have seen, I don't know where some people get the idea that the residents of this forum have forgotten that the hobby is about fun.  I enjoy the forum and the projects at least as much as playing the games.

Remember, if you know why YOU did something on YOUR cab, and you know what it gained you vs. what you sacrificed is a good balance, then you didn't' make any mistakes.

Later,
Brian

[KenToad]

Plus, it's a cheap way to add a fun cabinet to the game room.

Were you just putting this out there to see what it looked like?


You're buying a console, then building a couple-hundred-dollar cabinet to play something in a room that should already have a TV which you can connect a console to.....FOR FREE!

Which would be easier to move?  A console and a television, or a cabinet?

Console & TV = 1 person.
Cabinet = 1 person and a dolly, or 2 people.  Got a dolly handy?  If so, you just added to the cost of your "cheap" solution, if not, you've gotta ha......nevermind.  You've gotta be just looking for any reason to build a cab, and your wife bought that.

Just for clarity, this is the first Right Said Fred post, which probably came out of left field as far as BTP ... whatever ... was concerned.  It is Drew at his self-righteous best.  And it's silly to point out the impracticality of a cab like this, especially since this whole hobby basically reeks of impracticality. 

And I doubt PaigeOliver's comments are limited to cabs running Mame, as opposed to Raine or some other emulator or console games in general. 

Did you think the Dreamcast cab comment was inappropriate for the thread, Paige?

Did you read gt$%$'s rants ? THAT is about as lame as it gets (and his bone of contention seems to be the Dreamcast in the cab, which isn't relevant in a thread about MAME cabs anyway).

[Fozzy The Bear]

For F*&^% Sake!!!

Children....  It's like Handbags at dawn in here!!!

I disagree with nearly all of the top 10 list.... But at the end of the day the whole thing is about personal choice.

Now will you all stop mincing about in here and getting anti with each other. Put your damned handbags away.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[KenToad]

Fozzy,

That may be the first post where I see that you are clearly British.  Handbags at dawn?  Mincing?   

Seriously, though, I really do agree with most of Paige's comments.  I tried the gamepad thing myself.  I almost think it's a rite of passage for some of us.  I have several encoders from GGG now and would never look back.  Can't say I'm much for the newer fighters and console games, either, so no worries on my end.  I'll stick with PC emulators in cabs for now, at least until PSP's get cheap enough for me to consider them hackable ... would love to hook up a set of real arcade controls to that thing to replace the sucky D-pad.    

[CheffoJeffo]

I think you guys jumped on the new guy for building a Dreamcast cabinet, which is not really unheard of around here. 

Which part of:

*I* have a cabinet with a Dreamcast inside. I will have another one with a Dreamcast inside. (WTF are you dissing me about this ?)

would lead you to think that I was jumping on him for building a Dreamcast cab ?   

As for babbling, the point was that, while he doesn't babble like tranq did, he is on his way (I noticed that he ignored the fact that this was a thread about MAME cabs and also ignored what Drew said about items that actually were free, which were his only real objections).

My intention with "accusing" him of being somebody else was intended to be tongue-in-cheek and designed to make a point. As I seem to have failed to make that point clear -- he was an obnoxious @$$ the same way that tranq was.

And, to be clear, I am not taking any of this personally -- if I deserve a shot for what I posted, please take it and make it good (as I said, you'll get applause!).

Just make sure that it is on target for something that I actually said or did. I am not Paige and do not agree with everything that Paige said. I did not pick on anybody's designs or dreams. I thought that b2$% was throwing bad attitude (much the way you think I am) with his "thought so" crap and I called him on it. Nothing more complicated than that.

Cheers.

[KenToad]

Cheffo,

 

Deffo,

KenToad

And now on with the thread, the best I've seen in a while.  Leave it to Paige to come back and stir things up a bit.

How long have you been thinking about proposing this thread, Paige?

[paigeoliver]

A few weeks at least. 

[Fozzy The Bear]

A few weeks at least. 

I'll buy you a big wooden spoon for your birthday Paige.....

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[KenToad]

A few weeks at least. 

Well, it paid off, haven't seen a non-"product announcement" thread build up to over a hundred replies in less than 24 hours in a while.   

[CheffoJeffo]

Well, it paid off, haven't seen a non-"product announcement" thread build up to over a hundred replies in less than 24 hours in a while.   

At least not one that stayed out of PH ... that's the cue for me to shut up or Haruman's prediction will come true.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Rule #12...

Under NO circumstances are you to make create a "cabinet" as pictured below and attempt to sell it on ebay with a starting bid of $1,500 claiming others sell for over $3,000...

[SavannahLion]

Rule #12...

Under NO circumstances are you to make create a "cabinet" as pictured below and attempt to sell it on ebay with a starting bid of $1,500 claiming others sell for over $3,000...

I worship the intrinsic understanding you have of amusement at the expense of someone who is not here. 

[FrizzleFried]

Rule #12...

Under NO circumstances are you to make create a "cabinet" as pictured below and attempt to sell it on ebay with a starting bid of $1,500 claiming others sell for over $3,000...

I worship the intrinsic understanding you have of amusement at the expense of someone who is not here. 

As I worship the intimate misconception you have of light hearted humor at the expense of those who surround you.    

[zenmasterbooty]

Here are a few examples that prove #5 wrong.

[paigeoliver]

Um, none of those machines have angled joysticks. They might have the buttons places in different positions around the stick, but none of them have angled joysticks.

[paigeoliver]

Gauntlet. Look at the mounting bolts, they all face the same direction.

[SavannahLion]

Rule #12...

Under NO circumstances are you to make create a "cabinet" as pictured below and attempt to sell it on ebay with a starting bid of $1,500 claiming others sell for over $3,000...

I worship the intrinsic understanding you have of amusement at the expense of someone who is not here. 

As I worship the intimate misconception you have of light hearted humor at the expense of those who surround you.    

HEY! 

[paigeoliver]

Dark Legacy control panel. All the mounting bolts face the same way, and look at the arrows on the underlay.

[SavannahLion]

Gauntlet. Look at the mounting bolts, they all face the same direction.

But isn't the argument on that CP is the direction Thor and Questors controls are facing in relation to the screen? As in, whether UP is towards the screen or away from the edge 90 degrees relative from the screen.

[paigeoliver]

Up is the same direction on all 4 sticks. If you have any doubts then go ask one of the many Klov members who own the darn things.

Maximum hangtime. Note the arrows. Not angled.

[paigeoliver]

Here is the control panel diagram from the manual to Quartet. Note, not angled.

[paigeoliver]

I can't tell what that last game you posted is, so I can't produce a more clear picture of it. Looks like some newer form of Blitz or something, which do not have angled sticks.

[lcddream]

i guess the reason for an angle would be games like street fighter, when doing special moves, the control is not relative to the screen but relative to the player.

[paigeoliver]

Ok, if you really need to check out Gauntlet you can review the manual and wiring schematics to verify the orientation of the side sticks. You have to go through way too many pages for me to try to post it here, but the info is in there.

So far the only games with angled sticks on side players that have ever been found are Mercs, and a 1970s era snake game that I can't remember the name of. Both of which are almost unplayable from the side positions.

[MAME TIME]

Perfect thread for stirring up the pot, but hey I'm all in favour of people building whatever they want, even if it has a billion buttons and lights and want not. But this is what its all about isn't it, i think people need to check their ego at the login screen. I myself built and finished 2 Mame cabs to the best of my abilities and guess what just because someone has 2000+ posts doesn't mean they did any of the physical handy work or finished anything for that matter. I myself couldn't build a cab from scratch if my life depended on it, i had to using a existing one, but you know what, if someone takes the time to cut and build from nothing into something i admire them cause i know i couldn't, even if the cab looks poo. So if someone wants to start a thread with certain "guildlines" take it for whatever its worth,

[paigeoliver]

Hee, hee. I have done a few machines (4 scratchbuilt, 20+ conversions and have owned/repaired 50+ original machines). 

[FrizzleFried]

Rule #12...

Under NO circumstances are you to make create a "cabinet" as pictured below and attempt to sell it on ebay with a starting bid of $1,500 claiming others sell for over $3,000...

I worship the intrinsic understanding you have of amusement at the expense of someone who is not here. 

As I worship the intimate misconception you have of light hearted humor at the expense of those who surround you.    

HEY! 

Awe...have a beer!   

[RayB]

So far the only games with angled sticks on side players that have ever been found are Mercs, and a 1970s era snake game that I can't remember the name of. Both of which are almost unplayable from the side positions.

Uh Paige... nice to have you back and all, but give credit where credit is due... I posted some time last year that Pit Fighter had angled sticks. (And no coincidence, it's a HORRIBLE game from Atari's "all our smart staff has left the building!" era.    )



Actually, on closer look, that's probably a conversion kit... so the guy installing it just didn't know what he was doing.

[paigeoliver]

That may be a conversion, but I just checked a dedicated and they were that way too.

So, now we are up to Mercs, Pit Fighter (neither one actually 4 player), and a 1970s Snake game (which I can't seem to track down now).

[FrizzleFried]

That sure looks like the original arcade cabinet to me...that is off the ebay listing I see at KLOV I assume?  If so,  that IS the original cabinet as it matches the flyer.

[DrewKaree]

I can't believe that no one mentioned Golden Rule #11

That would be Golden Rule #12.  I've already established that #11 is "No rubber floor mats for CPO's"

Do we just assume that, simply because two members have higher post counts and that they both disagree with the same crappy "thought so" attitude that they are meeting behind closed doors, wearing funny hats with secret handshakes and planning to gang up on innocent newbs ? Or, does the dufus simply deserve a response ?

Um....Cheffo....shuuuuuuut uuuuuuuup!  Ixnay on the artypay!

I have to say that Drew was a little Right Said Fred in this case

Dude, c'mon, seriously.  I AM too sexy for my shirt.  Even you can see that.

It is funny that Drew can come off so hard without showing any of his own cabinet building ingenuity actually in practice.    

What I've done thus far IS there, and not only have I shown all my "ingenuity" (what little there is), I've even pointed out each and every flaw and problem in my personal project.  Kinda hard to offend someone who lays out the offenses for you beforehand and doesn't take himself too seriously.

And   Even if you didn't say you "respected" me, I'm still able to take a right fat load of criticism.  Even a blind person should be able to see that.  The only person you need to worry about in POSSIBLY offending me in some small way or fashion is Saint, and the way he wants people to behave.  I'd like to believe he gives my "tormentors" some more rope based on my own stance, but still, if I can get along with MrC (and ask him, I believe he'd agree), I'm darn near bulletproof

For F*&^% Sake!!!

Children....  It's like Handbags at dawn in here!!!

You just shoosh you big meanie! I'ma cry or summink



For those who've missed it, or think I was pissing on dude's cabinet, you may wish to actually CHECK OUT the project I'm sporadically working on.  I dunno about ANY of youse guys, but I'm more than positive that a 63" CP is something Paige would think is well beyond a mistake and something only a person who needs to have a group intervention would do (and perhaps he'd be right).  Um....FWIW, I believe I, the master debater, am the current and reigning king for sheer CP size, as the only thing I can dredge up that comes close to those proportions is Bones' battle carrier. 

You'll also have to note that I took this thread as an oppoortunity to point out that rubber floor mats (something NONE of you could have REALISTICALLY considered for a CPO) are something "we" might want to addd to "the list".  For those who hear a giant whooshing sound continually going over their head, PAIGE is the one "guilty" of doing that, and it was pointed out because others before me have pointed out the irony in someone stating his opinions on cab faux pas while considering such an odd (and probably never in anyone else's lifetime even DREAMED OF) choice for a CPO.

Yeah, I prolly could have been all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, but people justifiying their choices have already shown a need for direct and to-the-point dialogue, since they've already convinced themselves that their view on it is gospel.  Notice I've not left myself out of that equation.

In the end, the ranter gave us his sage bit of advice that he seemed determined to ignore himself.  Continuing to flog that dead horse isn't gonna bring it back to life, nor will it change my stance on the point I addressed, but since deciding to, I'm certain that it's apparent that I can move past the issue if the discussion is done on it.  Continuing to discuss it is tantamount to asking me to defend my position.  I'm game!

[danny_galaga]

Um....Cheffo....shuuuuuuut uuuuuuuup!  Ixnay on the artypay!

is it just me, or does 'shuuuuuuut uuuuuuuup' look like the top has been cut off?

[saint]

We just haven't found the right dose . . .

I'm darn near bulletproof

[ChadTower]

I seem to remember Gauntlet having rotated sticks... not angled, as angled would probably be the term to use if the sticks weren't 90 degrees vertical... but I do seem to remember that the side sticks on Gauntlet are rotated, possibly a full 90 degrees, but up for the side sticks isn't the same physical direction as up on the middle sticks in my memory.

If they were rotated a full 90 degrees, so that the up directions of the side sticks are actually pointing directly at each other, that would explain why the bolts don't appear to be rotated.

[FrizzleFried]

I seem to remember Gauntlet having rotated sticks... not angled, as angled would probably be the term to use if the sticks weren't 90 degrees vertical... but I do seem to remember that the side sticks on Gauntlet are rotated, possibly a full 90 degrees, but up for the side sticks isn't the same physical direction as up on the middle sticks in my memory.

If they were rotated a full 90 degrees, so that the up directions of the side sticks are actually pointing directly at each other, that would explain why the bolts don't appear to be rotated.

I didn't play Gauntlet enough to know this for sure but that would be HELLA confusing if that was the case...

[ChadTower]

Not nearly as confusing for me as if I had to stand sideways and look at the monitor out of the corner of my eye, reaching all the way across my body to get at the buttons.

[Tiger-Heli]

So, now we are up to Mercs, Pit Fighter (neither one actually 4 player), and a 1970s Snake game (which I can't seem to track down now).

You have five more with what I posted in this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64011.0

I meant to do an experiment with turning my desktop CP at a 45-degree angle, sitting at the same angle and seeing how the game played.

However, I remember a previous post on this supplying this test as a good example.  Sit at a 45-degree angle to the computer screen, turn your mouse so it is facing away from you and try to trace a vertical and then a horizontal line.  Repeat with the mouse oriented perpendicular to the computer screen.  The second method is easier.

[scotthh]

The joysticks on 2 On 2 Open Ice Challenge look angled to me.

http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/openice.png

[(+_+)]

Rule #13.

Once your CP holes are drilled and the plexi holes too, do not start to reconsider whether or not to angle your joysticks.

You now have me sweating. I'm even faux playing at my desk at work imagining what it feels like to play Gauntlet that way. My previous cab had the outer players pointing forward, but the buttons were angled. Truth be told I wanted the joysticks angled too, but my friend screwed them in straight. Intuitive or not, both my kids thought it felt weird playing at an angle with the joystick facing straight.

Too late for me. I'm angling.

[Dmod]

Too late for me. I'm angling.

Duck now... you're gonna feel the wrath for sure.   

[Numbski]

I'm not going to re-post my cp picture here again, but keep in mind that I almost exlusively play fighting games, so orientation hand-to-joystick almost has to take precedence over orientation joystick-to-screen (anyone following me?)

I've taken the top off of mine.  I can't undo the dimension of my CP box.  The wife would kill me.  Bad enough that I have to buy new plexi.  Eep.

So here's what I have: 4 start buttons, Happ Ulimates, labelled as such.
32 white sanwa OSBN pushbuttons, 8 per player
4 Sanwa JLF Joysticks

The panel is 48" wide, 15" deep.  The top edges are scalloped to remove the temptation of placing buttons outside of the box.  How would you recommend I lay this out?  I'd prefer not to drop down to 4 buttons on players 3 and 4 as it kills off the ability to do 4 player Mugen or 4 player Dead or Alive 2, etc.  If I don't angle, I don't know how else to do it that affords any mount of reasonable elbow room.

[Tiger-Heli]

Without any real empirical testing, I am guessing this may be a matter of how you use the machine.

i.e. if you have a long rectangular CP and all four players are facing perpendicular to the screen you want non-angled joysticks.

If the outside corners are cut but all players stand facing perpendicular to the screen with the outside players a bit closer to the screen, you also want non-angled.

If the outside corners are cut and the outside players are facing at a 45-degree angle you probably want angled sticks.

(But I'll duck now until I can do some real testing!)

[btp2k2]

My intention with "accusing" him of being somebody else was intended to be tongue-in-cheek and designed to make a point. As I seem to have failed to make that point clear -- he was an obnoxious @$$ the same way that tranq was.

You know what, it is my fault I took things the way I did. I switched to the night shift and I am having a tough time adjusting to sleeping during the days....so I have been a little punchy lately.

I just have two points I would like to make, and then I am done.....Please, before you rip into me for "ranting" just read them and think about them as I feel they are important.

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

Secondly, why is it alright for someone to make a remark "Tongue in cheek", while I get raked across the coals for doing it? The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

I am very sorry for any strife I caused earlier. I have learned my lesson that posting while very tired is almost as dangerous as posting drunk. That said, I would very much like to hear about CheffoJeffo's DC cabinet and what method he used to interface the controls. Any insight would be much appreciated.

[Texasmame]

Ok, I was thinking and I decided that a good topic for discussion might be the top 10 Mame mistakes that keep getting copied from one machine to another. And of course for almost every one of these there will be a few exceptions where they are not mistakes, but not many.

. . .

#4. Cabinets with internal frames. Arcade cabinets do not need internal frames made out of 2x4s. It is just added weight with no functionality.. . .

I am a card carrying member of Overbuilders Anonymous. 

[HaRuMaN]

...

[Tiger-Heli]

>You know what, it is my fault I took things the way I did. I switched to the night shift and I am having a tough >time adjusting to sleeping during the days....so I have been a little punchy lately.

Fair enough.

>First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely >unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. >Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is >surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

Without this trying to come off as self-serving, it is often a fairly good indicator on most forums.  True, I post a LOT on here and very little on MameWorld or MAME General/Serious, so I am more familiar with MAME than some people with tons of post over there despite fairly low post count, and also true, you can have thousands of posts in P&R or EE on here and know virtually nothing about arcade cabinets, or you can read Saint's book and lurk on the forum for about six months and know more than any of us with only a half-dozen posts, but these would be the exception rather than the rule.

Secondly, why is it alright for someone to make a remark "Tongue in cheek", while I get raked across the coals for doing it? The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

I've gotten in trouble over this on other forums I participate in.  You have to remember that people can't hear your tone of voice or judge your emotions, so they just have to go from the written words.  Take your last comment above:

The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

That ends with a question mark.  Are you asking us whether it was not tongue-in-cheek?  Are you asking yourself whether it was tongue-in-cheek?  Are you making a statement that is was not tongue-in-cheek?  Or are you making a rhetorical question implying that it was in-fact tongue-in-cheek?  Based on context, I am assuming it is the latter, but it could easily be misconstrued.

As far as why you got raked over the coals and others don't - I looked back at the original post:

Thought so . . .

Like DK said, that sounds authoritative and confrontational.  You would get a similar response from (and it was taken the same way as:

Thought so . . .   

or

Thought so . . . 

or somewhat

Thought so . . . 

as opposed to

Thought so . . . 

Thought so . . . 

Thought so . . .   

Thought so . . .   

Which most others use and which wouldn't have gotten the board mad at you.

Yes, it really is that simple!!! 

[Santoro]

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

Well... I knew shite about anything when I had 12 posts here 3-4 years ago.  I know my way around a bit now. Not like some others, but this would have been a good gauge for me.  Also, how many expert MAME builders do you think are out there that aren't members here?  Probably very few. 

I think your point is valid on many boards that have content that is duplicated on other boards.  It is, for example, easy to be an expert in Sci-Fi without ever having visited Scifi.com.  It is not so easy to be an expert MAME builder without having spent some time here. 

[KenToad]

As a fairly low-post resident cab/mame expert ...  ... no, but seriously, I just wanted to point out that I didn't really see post counts as being an issue.  I thought Drew kind of laid into you, BTP ..., and Cheffo fired back at your ranty response, while kind of ignoring Drew's initial rant, maybe because he knows that Drew is bulletproof ... and you were too new to the board to take it with a shrug, like most of us do.   

[DrewKaree]

Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

I think Chad's in his 30's

[(+_+)]

Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

I think Chad's in his 30's

Yes, but he may still act like he's 15 and suffer from adult acne. 
Just so it won't be misconstrued.

 

[ChadTower]

I think Chad's in his 30's

Yep.  And I clearly only know a little about a little, no matter what I think I know.

I don't have adult acne but I do still want to nail Debbie Gibson.

[Tiger-Heli]

Just so it won't be misconstrued.

I resemble that remark!  

Sorry for the continued drivel and drek!

[Santoro]

As a fairly low-post resident cab/mame expert ...  ...

I consider that to be high post count FWIW.  And you are way more knowledgable than I..  But you've been around a while, right?  That was my main point.

[btp2k2]

I think Chad's in his 30's

Yep.  And I clearly only know a little about a little, no matter what I think I know.

I don't have adult acne but I do still want to nail Debbie Gibson.

Who doesn't?

She was hot back then, hotter now!

[CheffoJeffo]

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

I don't think it is *stupid*, but definitely agree that post counts can be misleading. There are a number of folks with low post counts who have been around for a long time.

Secondly, why is it alright for someone to make a remark "Tongue in cheek", while I get raked across the coals for doing it? The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

I'm not sure that anybody said that my posting was alright (besides, nobody takes me seriously anyway). People came out and defended you. I objected to some of them because I thought I was being misrepresented -- I'm happy to take heat for stuff that I post, but I want the heat to be for what I post.

Cheers

Oh, I interfaced with the Dreamcast via controller hack ... see, told you I don't agree with all of Paige's points 

Having said that, I am thinking of a Dreamcast driving cab using the Super interface from excellentcom:

http://www.excellentcom.net/super1.asp

[Dmod]

  I thought I might learn something from this thread but fear it's gotten so far off track as to be rendered completely useless. 
I propose that Paige rename it:

Top 10 Flame mistakes that keep getting copied from one thread to another.

and that you guys finish kissing and make up.   

(Oh..., why can't we be friends?... why can't we be friends... why can't we be frends... why can't we - be - friends?  Dum, Dum. Dum...)   

[btp2k2]

Oh, I interfaced with the Dreamcast via controller hack ... see, told you I don't agree with all of Paige's points 

Having said that, I am thinking of a Dreamcast driving cab using the Super interface from excellentcom:

http://www.excellentcom.net/super1.asp

Interesting....So it looks like you need a Jamma cab for that?

I am still rather unfamiliar with the whole Jamma idea....So, from what I can gather in some of the pics on the excellentcom site, there is part that plugs into a slot on another board....that plugs into a jamma board, and that board has the video connections, control connections, etc?

[ArcadeMaze]

X

[btp2k2]

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

  Also, how many expert MAME builders do you think are out there that aren't members here?  Probably very few. 

I have been building for almost 2 years before I made a post here

[Santoro]

I always get in trouble when I make a statement that is intended to be general.  I said few, not none, right?  Any how long were you reading before you registered?

Anyway I didn't mean it to mean that it was a hard and fast rule, but rather a good guideline.  Especially on the internet, you need some indication of someone's credibility.  It has worked well for me.  Others will disagree. That's OK.     

[btp2k2]

I Any how long were you reading before you registered?

More to the point....how long was I registered before posting

I registered and never got the email confirmation....I found it in my junk folder like 4 months later.

But, I think I read for about a year before I registered

[Crowquill]

I personally think this is a good reflection of how things go on these boards. btp2k2 made a harsh statement, reactions were probably harsher than they should have been, but everyone's friends in the end. I can definitely sympathize with working night shift. That throws your whole life into chaos.

I rarely pay attention to the post count. You can usually tell pretty quickly if someone is talking out of their ass or throwing out opinions with no fact to back it up.

According to my info I joined in nov of '04, but I first started building a panel in 2000. I finally posted pictures of my "coinslot illuminated pushbutton" from that first panel a couple months ago. I was going to post pics of it when I first joined but was intimidated that what I thought was novel had been done a million times before and I just hadn't seen it yet. Judging by reactions to Randy's product announcement it hadn't. I guess the moral of this long-winded story is that newbs can contribute too.

[Crowquill]

Oh, I'd also like to contribute pet peeve number...I think we're up to 13:  Excessive admin buttons

Each player does not need their own pause button. And once your cab is configured, how often do you really need to press TAB?

I understand why people have admin buttons, but just like everything else it can snowball out of control. I prefer to not have admin buttons and use button combinations. If strangers visit my house they can read the posted instruction card. 

[btp2k2]

Yeah....I am not a big admin button fan. As hard as it is, what with all the different control types needed to play a majority of games correctly, I prefer a clean panel

[DrewKaree]

If strangers visit my house they can read the posted instruction card. 

Got a pic of that instruction card?

[Crowquill]

Here you go. It's also available as a PDF for download over at localarcade.com (the arcade art library). I only included the basic controls people would need to play the game. I purposely left out 'pause' and 'insert coin' since you can't pause a true arcade game and I have a working coin door. Holding the 7th bottom-left button and pressing start pauses and holding down on the joystick while pressing start inserts coins. I figure it's kind of like knowing cheat codes for games. The 'exit to menu' command is probably overkill, but since I have a Frogger control panel, the start buttons are on the front where they can get bumped. I wanted to make sure I didn't exit out on accident.

EDIT: Added a pic of the control panel. This pic is from a short while back, but you can at least see the general layout. It now has shiny buttons and all of it's bolts.

[KenToad]

I still think your exit to menu combo is too dangerous for my crowd of gameplayers.  They're experts at pushing everything in sight at once, especially during fighting games.  I'm a big fan of out of sight administration buttons, either above the marquee or hidden above the bezel, somewhere, anywhere, just not on the CP itself. 

[ChadTower]

Admin buttons on commercial cabs are usually inside the cab. 

[KenToad]

And they're usually not buttons, they're switches, right?  Nothing makes me more uncomfortable than messing than some funky combination of hard to switch switches.   

[ChadTower]

No, they're buttons quite often.  Small buttons. 

What is a button other than a way to open or close a switch, anyway?

[KenToad]

I guess buttons are momentary, either default on or default off when they're not depressed, whereas a switch, i.e. dips can be either on or off without ever being momentary, or am I confused?   

[ChadTower]

You're not confused, that is correct.  Standard buttons are over momentary contact switches.  There are about as many types of switch as you could possibly dream up a need.

[ChadTower]

Just thought of one that should probably be #1 on the entire list:

Building half the cab before the design is finished.  So often we see guys still making design decisions 85% of the way into the project and it never fails to make the project more painful and longer than it had to be.

[Tiger-Heli]

Just thought of one that should probably be #1 on the entire list:

Building half the cab before the design is finished.  So often we see guys still making design decisions 85% of the way into the project and it never fails to make the project more painful and longer than it had to be.

And the related - Playing the arcade before the cabinet is done - which leads to a cab with no marquee or sideart, but no more work gets done on it b/c the owner is too busy trying to top his Galaga hi-score.

[btp2k2]

OK, that said....is a cab considered "Not done" without sideart?

Marquee? Yeah....that one is pretty easy to say "not done" if it is missing that.....but with sideart...a little tougher. I have a little nook in my bonus room that perfectly fits three cabs (It's kinda cool cause it reminds me of how they used to line em up in the arcades). Because they are side by side and the ones on the outside see the wall, are my cabs considered unfinished cause I didn't do sideart?

I think art is another one of those personal preference things....a marquee is a requirement, otherwise you would have a big open space with a light staring at you....and probably a good CPO....anything else though I think is up to the building/user.

[ChadTower]

A cab is done when all design elements are constructed, tested, and are fully working.  It is only "not done" without sideart if sideart was in the design plan.

[btp2k2]

Ah....good call!

That is why I am rebuilding my first cab....it suffered from the "I just want to play!" problem...

[Tiger-Heli]

A cab is done when all design elements are constructed, tested, and are fully working.  It is only "not done" without sideart if sideart was in the design plan.

Agreed - I was more referring to the cab with no sideart, paint, t-molding, bezel, marquee, lower panel, but the monitor, computer, and joysticks and buttons and encoder are in place, so its in effect "done", b/c it's now playable.

[Chris G]

Wow, I ignore this post for a couple days and it blossoms into a novella ripe with intrigue, retribution, and a warm-and-fuzzy reconciliation.  Nice!!!

I purposely left out 'pause' and 'insert coin' since you can't pause a true arcade game and I have a working coin door.

I've been thinking of having some "hidden" combo pause button setup, but after a few days of the wife yapping at me in the middle of a (inenvitably high-scoring) game, I need instant pause-ability.  We just didn't have to deal with that kind of stuff back in the day!

I agree that a number of the original list are personal preference.  The only guideline which rises to "Commandment-level" for me would be positioning the joysticks too far apart to comfortably play Robotron...

 
Chris

[ChadTower]

If you pause the game it's not a real high score, IMO... can't pause in an arcade if someone yaps at you.

[Chris G]

Next you're going to tell me I have to count all those 2 foot putts I miss... 

[ChadTower]

I used to before I decided golf wasn't for me.

[Tiger-Heli]

can't pause in an arcade if someone yaps at you.

But you can slug the guy in the arcade but not the wife, so that doesn't count either.

Personally, I like dedicated Coin, Start, Pause, and Escape buttons, but that's it . . .

And O and K, but that's it . . .

And maybe F11, and F12, and F2, and F3, but definitely none beyond that . . .

Except . . .

Okay, this is getting silly now, can't have silliness on this forum . . .

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

I'm posting in here just to get my posts up so I can be a "veteran" ... 

And to announce(!) ... that after having read this thread(!) ... I will not be "announcing" my cabinet(!)

 

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm posting in here just to get my posts up so I can be a "veteran" ... 

You're supposed to do that on the P&R or EE forums, but we'll forgive you this time since you're a rookie. 

[Chris G]

But you can slug the guy in the arcade but not the wife, so that doesn't count either.

    I almost wrote that same thought earlier...

[ChadTower]

Dude, if you would slug a guy over a quarter, you need help   That said, I've seen some guys get seriously pissed off that their session was interrupted, and never quite understood it.  It's supposed to be fun!    

[fixedpigs]

maybe they were in training...

[Santoro]

I wonder how many migraines that avatar has triggered?  ---Cleveland steamer---. 

[Chris G]

Dude, if you would slug a guy over a quarter, you need help   That said, I've seen some guys get seriously pissed off that their session was interrupted, and never quite understood it.  It's supposed to be fun!    

I was thinking back to when I was 13 - can't be held accountable. 

[ChadTower]

Heh.  When I was 13 there was only one local arcade that was a transparent front for money laundering and drug sales.  If you went in there and did anything that might attract Police attention you'd end up full of holes in the canal.

[btp2k2]

Dude....where the hell did you grow up? Holy crap man!

[ChadTower]

That's what a lot of arcades were in a lot of places.  Easiest way for organized crime to do most of its business.  Why do you think there were so many arcades in NJ/NY? 

[Santoro]

Hey yo, what're you sayin bout Joysey?   

*places phone call to Fat Tony.*

[ChadTower]

Do you happen to have the pretzel monies, Homer?

[MaximRecoil]

Dude, if you would slug a guy over a quarter, you need help   That said, I've seen some guys get seriously pissed off that their session was interrupted, and never quite understood it.  It's supposed to be fun!    

I've seen a few real fights break out on Double Dragon when one player "accidentally" elbow smashes the other player one too many times.

[Crowquill]

Dude, if you would slug a guy over a quarter, you need help   That said, I've seen some guys get seriously pissed off that their session was interrupted, and never quite understood it.  It's supposed to be fun!    

I've seen a few real fights break out on Double Dragon when one player "accidentally" elbow smashes the other player one too many times.

I can see that. The only game that turned physical I've played was over Golden Axe for Genesis. We were probably like 15 or so. Basically it was the same thing. I attacked nothing but enemies, he attacked nothing but my character. I started attacking his character back, he punched me really hard on the shoulder, and I yanked his controller out of the system and told him to get out. It's the only incident if you don't count when my wife smacks me when she loses. 

One of our roller-skating rinks got closed down for trafficking. That place had one of the better arcades in town too.

[btp2k2]

I saw a fight break out between brothers over a game of Contra on the NES....seems little brother didn't take too kindly to big brother stealing his player after big brother had died.....