Author Topic: I don't believe it, another classic added => Centipede ! FINISHED !!!! (Read 64708 times)

Level42 · « **Reply #80 on:** April 09, 2007, 04:30:19 pm »

I replaced lots of chips today, regretfully without any result.

The only one's I didn't do yet are C8 and the main RAMs, but there are 8 and I only have 2, and they all measure the same values....piggy backing these RAMs didnt do anything at all.

I tried piggy backing C8, and there were already more details on the screen then without it, but the PCB is still not "running". Just a steady garbage screen with game characters....

I also replaced one of the startbuttons, just to take a look. Of course, the holes in the metal have been made larger to fit those ugly fake fruitmachine buttons, but the cones do cover the holes. However, they did a "proper" job and there's a small "key" on the side of the hole that shows when using the cones.
Should be OK when the CPO is replaced though this will cover it and it's so tiny, it won't be harmed.

Level42 · « **Reply #81 on:** November 03, 2007, 11:08:11 am »

Wow , I really had to dig up this thread

Worked on the Centipede PCB today and I think I fixed it

It was no RAM error.

Last week I checked the EPROMs at work, we have an EPROM programmer there. They all checked out just fine when compared to the "files I have floating around"....

I also checked out all the pins of all the EPROMs to the solder side, each and everyone beeped out just fine.

So today I decided to go to work like a pro should:

I got out my Oszifox (http://picotechitaly.8k.com/oszifox1/oszifox.html) and connected it to my laptop for easier reading.
I already had ordered a Centipede to Jamma adapter from Y-plus technologies http://www.arcademvs.com (who are GREAT, they deliver lightening fast and are CHEAP) just for the test work. Hooked it up to my Jamma cabinet and, there was the same static garbage screen like I had before.
I thought I smelled something and when checking all the parts for heat (fingers are a great instrument

) I discovered that Q2 and Q3 were really running hot. I then discovered through some more measuring that pin 5 and 6 were shorting on L2 (for those who want to know full details, let me know). I cut both pins, fired up the board, still garbage, but now it was actually responding (a bit) to the reset button. When pressed some garbage changed to other garbage, and back to the original garbage when released

Since L2 is controlling the reset line of the CPU (6502) I took a gamble and shorted the +5V to pin 40 (the reset pin) of the CPU and YESSSSSS I had a play field. Even better, as long as I short the pin to +5V the game runs fine in attract mode !!!

Set the dipswitches to Free Play, and yes I can start a game and fire....moving is a bit hard without trackball though

Sooooo, I went to my local electronics shop to get a new 74LS90 (=L2) but of course they didn't have it in stock

Ordered 2, pretty insanely expensive, over €2,- each for a simple 74LS.... but what the heck, I need it and I want it fixed.....

I guess I could simply hard-wire pin 40 to +5v but then there's no way to reset it anymore....

Anyway, I was very excited to see the game running in attract, really gives you a boost to know you found the problem and (most likely) fixed it.

I guess all the RAMs and CPU etc. have been replaced for nothing, but o well, another good lesson learned ! First measure !

SirPeale · « **Reply #82 on:** November 03, 2007, 11:48:03 am »

Quote from: Level42 on November 03, 2007, 11:08:11 am

I thought I smelled something and when checking all the parts for heat (fingers are a great instrument ) I discovered that Q2 and Q3 were really running hot. I then discovered through some more measuring that pin 5 and 6 were shorting on L2 (for those who want to know full details, let me know).

Of course you should post those details.

Level42 · « **Reply #83 on:** November 03, 2007, 01:59:11 pm »

OK, sometimes I have the feeling my posts are too detailed and I'm boring people....

Here goes:

What you need to have for this are the schematics and a little understanding how these things work.
The schematics you can find at http://arcarc.xmission.com/

This one was of use the most for this situation:
http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/Centipede/Centipede_DP-182-5th-01B.pdf

Since my PCB was completely frozen I had replaced a lot RAMs before and replaced the CPU. Also some more 74LS chips near the CPU.

On the KLOV forum, Mark Speath pointed me into the direction that this was probably NOT a RAM problem, since the game doesn't actually need any RAM to start-up. It makes sense, first thing a computer (which an arcade PCB is of course) when it starts up is read the very first adress for it's first CPU instruction. My PCB didn't seem to get that far...

Here's a pic how it looked when started up:

I could push the reset button, but it remained completely static, like it was frozen.

When you check the schematics, you can see that everything "starts" with the clock generator, using a 12 Mhz crystal and a transistor Q1. I checked those with the Oszifox and it was oscillating happily. The clock signal is routed to some counters/dividers. One branch of these make the H-sync and V-sync signals. Since I had a stable picture, I figured these were OK.

The other branch of course goes towards the CPU. I checked the clock signals with the Oszifox on the test-points and on the CPU pins and they seemed OK. I had also checked the ROM select signals (there are test-points for each one) and these were constantly high. This meant the CPU was not addressing the ROM.

So, I figured something was holding the CPU. I also felt the overheating Q2 and Q3 so I measured the transistors and they seemed good. Then I measured (diode-check setting of DVM) across R7 and got a beep (=short). I re-measured it in Ohms setting: 0 Ohms. It should be 10k. I desoldered one leg of the resistor and it measured out fine, the short was somewhere else (usualy, the passive parts (like resistors, condensators etc. don't go bad, the active parts like diodes, transistors, IC's are most likely to go).
Checking the schematics I figured it could only be L2 since pins 6 and 7 are parallel to R7 and +5V. I cut off pin 6 and 7. The short across R7 was gone. Checked between pin 5 (+5v input of L2) and pin 6 and there was the short !

I fired up the PCB again with the two pins cut off. Now I could see something happening when pressing the reset button. (The garbage changed when pressed, and changed back when released....)
L2 controls the reset signal going to the CPU.So I checked the reset pin on the CPU (pin 40). When this is low, the CPU is in reset, so it should measure +5V when running normally. I checked it and it was low. So the CPU was constantly in Reset.

Then I figured "what the heck" and shorted a +5v testpoint to pin 40. First I did it very briefly. But it was enough to get the complete playfield

Then I shorted it longer and the attract ran....

Hello, everyone still awake ?

P.S. Anyone needs a almost brand-new (two times used !!!!) Centipede to Jamma adapter ?

ChadTower · « **Reply #84 on:** November 03, 2007, 03:22:50 pm »

Quote from: Level42 on November 03, 2007, 01:59:11 pm

Hello, everyone still awake ?

Hell yeah, great post.

Level42 · « **Reply #85 on:** November 03, 2007, 08:02:00 pm »

Whaahaha, Chad, tell me you followed every step while looking at the schematics

BUCKETHEAD · « **Reply #86 on:** November 04, 2007, 08:04:37 am »

Why is the centipede setting out in the mud?

In the pictures ?

Level42 · « **Reply #87 on:** November 04, 2007, 09:45:13 am »

Those were the pics that were sent to me by the seller. This one was really one of those "found in a barn" games

It looks amazing though !!!!
Was owned by a dentist who had it in his waiting room for a very long time

ChadTower · « **Reply #88 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:11:56 am »

Quote from: Level42 on November 03, 2007, 08:02:00 pm

Whaahaha, Chad, tell me you followed every step while looking at the schematics

Didn't go that far but I did read it 2-3 times to make sure I understood the logical process you used. Good stuff.

Level42 · « **Reply #89 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:23:00 am »

Went to pick up the 2 74LS90's I ordered yesterday and also got the matching socket.
Soldered it, put in the chip, power-up and YEAAEHHHH, it works

First (serious) PCB repair done

Sure, I replaced a number of probably still good parts (some I can put back, the socketed chips I still have). But the bottom line is that it's working again, and it still cost me less than buying a working PCB. Far more important: the satisfying feeling of having it done myself AND having learned from it

Some pictures....(my "regular" camera was dead all of a sudden and is in repair now (warranty). So I took these shots with my old simple 2MPixel Fuji, and it shows.....ah well, I guess "you get the picture".....ahahahahahahaa (worst joke effort today)...

1st: No workbench, so this is my "professional" test set-up....my Mame/Jamma cab
2nd: The PCB with Jamma adapter (for sale, almost brand new !!!) ready for power up

Level42 · « **Reply #90 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:43:08 am »

Pic and vid....

Level42 · « **Reply #91 on:** November 11, 2007, 03:00:38 pm »

Video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK0oP0oynDM[/youtube]

Level42 · « **Reply #92 on:** November 12, 2007, 02:18:25 pm »

OK, the bug has bit me and I'd like to restore my Centipede asap.....

I'm looking for a new CPO and I have seen two on offer:
Arcadeshop:

applied:

Quarterarcade:

and this is how Quarterarcade shows it on e-bay:

Now compare this with my current CPO (this picture was taken by the seller in daylight):

and (this picture was taken by me, with flash):

Remember, my Centipede is Irish built and we all know there are color differences between US built and Irish built cabs. SW Cockpit is a very good example. (US is deeper blue, Irish lighter).

Now, from judging all the pics, I'd say the US repro's are a darker blue than the one on my cab. It seems the Irish blue is much "blue-er", harder color. However, since it matches so close to the bezel, I fear the color difference may be too much if I would order one of those repro's. Anyone has ordered any of these ? I seem to remember that there were two versions of the CPO (I don't mean the Willis) ?

Any help much appreciated !

Level42 · « **Reply #93 on:** November 12, 2007, 02:33:00 pm »

Of course, I post this and the next minute I find this:

http://www.mamemarquees.com/centipede-upright-dark-blue-p-670.html

Dark and light blue..... I guess I will now have to go for an inkjet repro.....I somehow always prefer to have real silkscreen....Richie are you planning on doing Centipede CPO's ? I mean the light-blue one's ?

[Edit] Thinking this over, I have heard nothing but good stories about Mamemarquees so I guess I'll just try them this time

Neilyboy · « **Reply #94 on:** November 17, 2007, 11:27:40 pm »

man your a lucky guy hahaha where the heck do you find these machines in such great shape!!! im jealous

Neil

Level42 · « **Reply #95 on:** November 18, 2007, 03:13:53 pm »

Neil you are totally right, I still can't believe my luck in finding all those beauties. The really eery thing is that I found them all within one year's time and all in this little tiny country I live in !

The problem with this is that I didn't have time to make a serious game room. In no time at all I was the owner of all those cabs, and they're all "parked" here and there.

There's some aspects in getting classic arcade machines here. First, they are definitely scarcer than in the US. But on the other side, conversions are very-very rare here. I think that is because most operators didn't actually own the cabs but other companies placed the machines at the operator's spots.

I don't remember lots of arcades here. Of course there were the usual "tourist" places where arcades were (and mostly are still today). But lots of machines spent their life in movie theaters, snack bars and camping grounds (the last were my first "arcades").

I got an e-mail from Scot and he confirmed that I should go with the light blue color. Order will go out soon. Then I have to dig up the cab from my shed and examine the trackball situation and the G07. I think instead of throwing in a TV with SCART-RGB, I will have a go at trying to fix the G07. Partly because it's lovely light grey CRT, partly because of it being such a mainstream monitor that should be easy and cheap to fix....

About collecting these things. I actually still have a couple of cabs on my radar, but the situation is unclear about them.....but there could be one or two additions within the next year....but first, I gotto get rid of all the stuff that is in my 3rd floor ("attic") and turn it into a game room....

Level42 · « **Reply #96 on:** November 25, 2007, 05:20:59 am »

OK finaly found a little time to do something with the Centipede. First I had to bring the Puckman home. It was in temporary storage elsewhere and had to go.
I also wanted to start working on the Centipede so I wanted to move it into my home from my shed where it was in storage.

That meant that I had to move the cab that started it all INTO the shed: My Playscene Mame cab will have to wait some time until for further work....

Meant a lot of shoving around with the cabs, and at those moments you sometimes wonder why the hell you started this hobby

Here' some pics:
1) Playscene ready to go to the shed. My wife protested because now she couldn't play her beloved Puzzle Bobble anymore. I concurred that she would love the Centipede as most women seem to

2) Picked up the Puckman and ready to be moved into the shed, but first I had to get the Centipede out...
3) Puckman meets Centipede...

Level42 · « **Reply #97 on:** November 25, 2007, 05:39:58 am »

1) And this poor thing is still patiently awaiting it's turn for restoration....
2) Well the Centipede hasn't suffered from the storage. I keep them well covered.
I really really love this style of cab, and the artwork is still brilliant IMHO
3) Let's try one of the new buttons I got from Luigi, Germany: Looks a lot better !

Level42 · « **Reply #98 on:** November 25, 2007, 05:57:51 am »

Let' check the trackball:
1) Dirty but not too bad
2) Inside look

Level42 · « **Reply #99 on:** November 25, 2007, 06:16:32 am »

1) Inside, dirty and some small rust spots. The rollers look like they have served their time

2) The ball. The dirt came off really well with my favorite cleaner Dasty, but of course it stays very yellow. Will be replaced with an Electric ICE
3) Yep those rollers are ready for replacement

The bearrings actualy roll still quite well. I guess I will clean and regrease them instead of new one's....

Level42 · « **Reply #100 on:** November 25, 2007, 08:16:26 am »

Some first cleaning:

I read up about cleaning bearings on this forum etc. and I think I might just as well order new one's if I need to order rollers anyway. The dollar-euro rate is still helping us European collectors

Level42 · « **Reply #101 on:** November 25, 2007, 05:24:30 pm »

Funny... I just discovered another difference in the side art-work between US and Irish built: The Centipede's left (for the viewer right) "antenna" is going down and seems to stop too early on my cab, where on the US cabs it's going up and is longer.....

Anyway....

The G07 is still dead. I am going to try to repair it, even though there's some burn-in on the CRT.

There's something weird with the audio. When a game is started, I can hear the game sound for a VERY short time and then it dies-out.... could be the AR2 of course (not cap-kitted yet).

Level42 · « **Reply #102 on:** December 01, 2007, 06:42:25 pm »

Quick update:

-CPO is ordered from Mamemarquees.com
-AR2 capkitted and tested
-Power Brick rebuilt with Bob Roberts' kit. I still need a new F1 fuse holder, it was the first thing I checked when I got the cab, and the cap broke too pieces right away.....got it bridged now, but that's not how it's going to stay ! Not tested yet
-ordered trackball rollers and bearings, G07 capkit and Flyback, bolts and some other small stuf from Bob.
-gotta get me a LM324 and maybe some TDA2002 for the audio problem. Didn't have time for that this weekend.
-the cab is completely cleaned everywhere. It looks incredible and seems to beg me to get it fully running..........it's really frustrating to know that the game PCB runs and I can't play it yet

No pictures, camera still in repair...

Level42 · « **Reply #103 on:** December 03, 2007, 03:08:08 pm »

Waaahhh, I just created some nice fireworks

Being the impatient guy that I am, I read-up on a lot of things about the G07. I read somewhere that a bad C511 could cause the G07 to act as if it was completely dead. So I replaced it with a cap that was about the right value (voltage was correct) and just powered it up.

There was some really nice fireworks going on in the lower part of the Flyback

Instantly shut it off again of course.....at least I now know that the flyback's not ordered in vain

Well, that means waiting patiently for the Bob Roberts parts to arrive $:-\$

Level42 · « **Reply #104 on:** December 04, 2007, 11:41:35 am »

In the meantime (I really feel like I'm talking to myself on this thread

).....

I picked up a couple of LM324's and a socket. Replaced it as soon as I got home and ladies and gentleman:
We Have Sound !

!

So I can play blind now.....
Funny, it took quite a bit of work to get it where it was supposed to be at the seller's...... ah well, another hurdle successfully crossed

Isn't there be supposed to be some sounds when the game counts the left-over mushrooms after you loose a life ? Gotta run it in test-mode to check if all channels of the Pokey work....but that's a bit hard without picture....

If all goes well I will pick-up a nice RGB test monitor (Philips, one of those "Commodore 1084" models) tonight....

polaris · « **Reply #105 on:** December 04, 2007, 11:44:44 am »

im reading

Level42 · « **Reply #106 on:** December 05, 2007, 11:23:41 am »

Thanks Polaris

This Centipede is a tougher nut to crack than I'd thought.....eveytime I fix something, there's some other problem.....

Picked up the Philips monitor yesterday, and it still has a great picture. Loosely hooked it up to the Centipede just now, works...

[EDIT, well not completely yet, there' some weird thing with the colors, but I think I need to hook up the +12V and +5V lines, just like on the Galaxian TV-set).

So I tried to play my first game, but the trackball is only moving the archer up and right....oh well, no time to figure that one out tonight....must be the direction not working....

Bob just mailed me that he actualy cross-shipped the parts. GREAT ! And that on a first, international order

Level42 · « **Reply #107 on:** December 08, 2007, 12:36:48 pm »

Another update....

Still have issues with the picture on the test monitor that I don't understand. I've hooked up both the +12v and +5v to the correct lines of the SCART, no improvement. This is WEIRD ! I'll try hook up the testmonitor to my Galaxian to verify it works OK.

However I could make out enough on the screen to see that I had yet another problem $:-\$
The trackball was only moving the archer up and right. If I turned left or right, the archer went right. If I turned up or down, the archer moved up. Did some schematic checking and got some help from the KLOV forum..... turns out there are 2 IC's that contain Schmitt-triggers on the PCB that process the signals that come from the optical boards. Since those were already replaced once on my PCB, they were on sockets. So I gave it a shot and switched them around. Now the archer was not moving at all.
This meant the problem had moved. One of those chips handles the direction signal (of both trackballs, for if it's in a cocktail) the other the clock signals. The clock signals make the archer move. The direction controls in which direction it moves.

In my original situation the direction chip was defective. When I switched them, the bad chip moved to the clock position, so now it didn't move at all. Probably, the direction now worked, but without clock signal there is no way of knowing it for sure.....

The IC's were 4584's (F10 and F11 on the PCB). Picked up 2 of them today. Replaced them and yes, it works perfectly

Another problem on the PCB solved. That makes 3

I guess the PCB is 100% now

I got a mail from Scott from Mamemarquees that the CPO is on it's way over the Atlantic, so I figured I'd start preparation of the CP for it. Got out the heat-gun to remove the original CPO. Even though it was damaged and worn, I still don't like to remove the original stuff...but gotta do what I gotta do

CPO is bare now. Need to sand it for the rusty area around the trackball. I think I will paint this one myself for cost reasons AND because the CPO is fully covering the CP. There are no visible CP parts, so the look of the paint is not terribly important. It's just for protecting it from rust.

shilmover · « **Reply #108 on:** December 08, 2007, 09:07:31 pm »

Quote from: Level42 on December 08, 2007, 12:36:48 pm

Another update....

Still have issues with the picture on the test monitor that I don't understand. I've hooked up both the +12v and +5v to the correct lines of the SCART, no improvement. This is WEIRD ! I'll try hook up the testmonitor to my Galaxian to verify it works OK.

However I could make out enough on the screen to see that I had yet another problem $:-\$
The trackball was only moving the archer up and right. If I turned left or right, the archer went right. If I turned up or down, the archer moved up. Did some schematic checking and got some help from the KLOV forum..... turns out there are 2 IC's that contain Schmitt-triggers on the PCB that process the signals that come from the optical boards. Since those were already replaced once on my PCB, they were on sockets. So I gave it a shot and switched them around. Now the archer was not moving at all.
This meant the problem had moved. One of those chips handles the direction signal (of both trackballs, for if it's in a cocktail) the other the clock signals. The clock signals make the archer move. The direction controls in which direction it moves.

In my original situation the direction chip was defective. When I switched them, the bad chip moved to the clock position, so now it didn't move at all. Probably, the direction now worked, but without clock signal there is no way of knowing it for sure.....

The IC's were 4584's (F10 and F11 on the PCB). Picked up 2 of them today. Replaced them and yes, it works perfectly Another problem on the PCB solved. That makes 3

I guess the PCB is 100% now

I got a mail from Scott from Mamemarquees that the CPO is on it's way over the Atlantic, so I figured I'd start preparation of the CP for it. Got out the heat-gun to remove the original CPO. Even though it was damaged and worn, I still don't like to remove the original stuff...but gotta do what I gotta do

CPO is bare now. Need to sand it for the rusty area around the trackball. I think I will paint this one myself for cost reasons AND because the CPO is fully covering the CP. There are no visible CP parts, so the look of the paint is not terribly important. It's just for protecting it from rust.

I'm reading too... this info is especially important if I am going to pick up that Millipede.

patrickl · « **Reply #109 on:** December 09, 2007, 05:41:38 am »

Wow, fixing these things is like a big electrical jigsaw puzzle. I guess that's half the fun huh? Having that collection of yours complete and working will be seriously cool

Level42 · « **Reply #110 on:** December 09, 2007, 05:02:15 pm »

Indeed, I'm still very satisfied after fixing each problem. To be honest, I'm a little proud even

I knew doing MTS electronics would come in handy at one point or the other

I am SO close to getting the Centipede running....(I hope).

Turned out Bob Roberts's package was delivered at my neighbors yesterday as we weren't home. Neighbor brought it a couple of hours ago as we were out almost all day... Receiving a package like that is still exciting

Nothing to pay to the postman (I mean no import duties and nasty stuff

), well done Bob, and what a quick delivery (shipped 12/4, arrived 12/8 !)

I instantly rebuilt the trackball, wow what a difference !!! Bob's rollers are stainless steel, where the originals seem to be your average regular steel stuff....I think Bob's will last VERY long....

After that I started cap-kitting the G07. I had already removed the flyback so I could start working right away......going back to work now.....

Level42 · « **Reply #111 on:** December 09, 2007, 05:37:06 pm »

BTW, I just discovered why my test-monitor (the Philips) wouldn't work.....I freaking connected the wires to the wrong pins !!!!

I assumed by looking at the wire colors which was R-G-B, turns out I assumed wrong. I didn't correct it yet, but I just discovered this while looking at the schematics of the Centipede

Ah well, another lesson learned....gotta stop working on the G07 now, it's bed time here.....damn wish I didn't have to work tomorrow

Level42 · « **Reply #112 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:37:13 am »

OK, some pics as I have some (extremely rare) spare time at work

1) This was what I found when I removed the marquee the first time. There' some plastic cover over the tube (at least, it's supposed to be) probably to dim the light. Not a bad idea, I still think my Galaxian marquee is too light when I play it....however this one does it's job a little too well, the marquee is too dim for my taste ......anyway it's not listed on Atari's parts list. Maybe an Irish-built thing, or a later mod ?

2) tube holders......needs to be replaced I guess....

Level42 · « **Reply #113 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:39:19 am »

1) Warning: Extreme nudity in this picture !

2) The G07 frame and CRT

Level42 · « **Reply #114 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:41:23 am »

1) CRT front, some burn in of course, but not too bad

2) close-up

Level42 · « **Reply #115 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:42:45 am »

1) A last look at the original CPO....

2) It's the details...

Level42 · « **Reply #116 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:46:06 am »

1).....AND the impossible-to-miss things that matter

2) OK, let' put some heat to it

Level42 · « **Reply #117 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:48:04 am »

1) More nudity....

2) Old versus new trackball rollers......

Level42 · « **Reply #118 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:50:25 am »

1) New bearings installed

2) .....and finaly a use for that red-translucent ball that I intended for my MAME cab.....
It runs as smooth as baby's skin

Level42 · « **Reply #119 on:** December 10, 2007, 06:27:10 pm »

OK,worked more on the G07, replaced the flyback, tested, nothing.....this is one ---smurfette--- of a monitor to repair....(see the thread under "monitors".

So, I needed some succes..... I rewired the cable from the monitor connector going to the SCART, this time with the RIGHT connections (DUH !!) and, yes we have a wonderful clean, bright colored picture on the little Philips monitor

I put it (loosely) in the place where the G07 belongs...resting on the wooden frame really.

So I HAD to hook up the trackball and the button....put back the CP and...........holy crap.....for the first time in my life played Centipede the way it was meant to be !!!!!!!!

The PCB is running 100%.......now that (&^%#(*$^& G07 needs to get fixed.......I have to admit that I am already tending to getting a used TV-set.......but I gotta leave it a bit for now....will have new courage tomorrow (I hope) ...


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