Author Topic: FIXED!!! Pole Position wheel/opto to Mini-Pac (Read 7777 times)

Texasmame · « **on:** October 28, 2006, 06:22:50 pm »

NOTE: Go to final two posts for fix for this problem.

Trying to hook up a PP wheel and opto to finish my cab. From what I gathered on a google, you can't go directly from the pins - you must hack the PCB at certain points? Is this correct?

If you're looking at the back of the opto, left to right, I'm thinking the pinout is:

input, 5v, gnd, input

Tried hooking up the spinner output of the Mini in that order - nothing. Did I miss something or do you have to hack something and bypass that resistor, for example. . .

TIA,
John in TX

Texasmame · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2006, 08:24:51 pm »

This thread has some good info for mouse hacks but nothing on the MINI.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=13576.msg587861#msg587861

And this one is close, too, but Gearhead took his pics off his site:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=6101;start=msg42109

Right now, I've got the wires hooked up as shown in the labeled pic in that thread and I get nothing.

Wondering if this has to do with the signal going "high" or whatever tech mumbo jumbo that is. Bah.

Running Win98SE but that shouldn't matter as the Mini can handle the two inputs at once. Also have a mouse hooked up to the computer, if that matters. Mouse and trac still working - steering dead.

Kremmit · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2006, 10:23:08 pm »

I successfully hooked a Pole wheel up to an Opti-Wiz without any hacking or anything, I wonder if it had a different optic board from yours, or if the Opti-Wiz can handle "Active High" signals better than the Mini.

Hmm.. seems like I remember there being an Active High/Active Low jumper on the Opti-Pac, is there one on the Mini-Pac?

Kremmit · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2006, 11:19:26 pm »

~~Poop. I sold the particular Pole wheel that I used previously. I just tried to hook up tho only other loose one I've got, and all I get is the mouse cursor jitters.~~

Edit- nevermind, it's working fine now, must've been operator error.

My optic is the exact same one in the other thread you linked up, this one here:

The pinout labeled on the pic is the one I'm using, hooked to an Opti-Wiz. I have not done any of the mods reccomended in that thread, it's exactly the way I pulled it off the Pole machine.

BTW, Tex, I also tried it out with one of my mouse hacks, and it works fine! So if you've still got one of those unused, that should take care of you if your MiniPac can't be beat into working- although I'm surprised it doesn't- I really thought these Atari optics were pretty basic- nothing but the optics and one resistor on the pcb.

Texasmame · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2006, 09:04:27 am »

Quote from: Kremmit on October 28, 2006, 11:19:26 pm

~~Poop. I sold the particular Pole wheel that I used previously. I just tried to hook up tho only other loose one I've got, and all I get is the mouse cursor jitters.~~

Edit- nevermind, it's working fine now, must've been operator error.

My optic is the exact same one in the other thread you linked up, this one here:

The pinout labeled on the pic is the one I'm using, hooked to an Opti-Wiz. I have not done any of the mods reccomended in that thread, it's exactly the way I pulled it off the Pole machine.

BTW, Tex, I also tried it out with one of my mouse hacks, and it works fine! So if you've still got one of those unused, that should take care of you if your MiniPac can't be beat into working- although I'm surprised it doesn't- I really thought these Atari optics were pretty basic- nothing but the optics and one resistor on the pcb.

In regards to your first post - no jumper on the MINI.

Yeah, it the same opto - an Atari 80 - just the one resistor. Even if I have the two x wires backwards, I should still get *something* or am I off base on that?

Also, due to my rotating panel, I'd like to do the mouse hack as a last resort as I would have to take the entire panel off again to run that one wire.

I mean, the MINI *should* work fine here. . .

trcroyle · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2006, 12:56:56 pm »

Have you verified that you're getting 5v at the wheel encoder?

Kremmit · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2006, 01:15:01 pm »

Quote from: Texasmame on October 29, 2006, 09:04:27 am

Yeah, it the same opto - an Atari 80 - just the one resistor. Even if I have the two x wires backwards, I should still get *something* or am I off base on that?

Also, due to my rotating panel, I'd like to do the mouse hack as a last resort as I would have to take the entire panel off again to run that one wire. I mean, the MINI *should* work fine here. . .

Yeah, if you have the x wires backwards, you'll just get backwards motion- spin the wheel right and the cursor moves left. Get your x wires shorted somewhere, and you'll get the jittery cursor I had above. Get the +5/gnd backwards, and you'll get nothing at all, except possibly a dead opto board. (although I've done it more than once, and never smoked one yet)

re: your reluctance to pull the panel-

Do you mean you'll have to pull it in order to hook up the mousehack permanently? Can you even hook it up on a temporary basis? That could help you track down the problem- if it works with the mousehack, then you know it's the wiring or the MiniPac.

Texasmame · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2006, 01:50:03 pm »

Quote from: trcroyle on October 30, 2006, 12:56:56 pm

Have you verified that you're getting 5v at the wheel encoder?

It's getting a steady 4.8 - should be enough, no?

Texasmame · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2006, 01:53:10 pm »

Quote from: Kremmit on October 30, 2006, 01:15:01 pm

Quote from: Texasmame on October 29, 2006, 09:04:27 am
Yeah, it the same opto - an Atari 80 - just the one resistor. Even if I have the two x wires backwards, I should still get *something* or am I off base on that?

Also, due to my rotating panel, I'd like to do the mouse hack as a last resort as I would have to take the entire panel off again to run that one wire. I mean, the MINI *should* work fine here. . .

Yeah, if you have the x wires backwards, you'll just get backwards motion- spin the wheel right and the cursor moves left. Get your x wires shorted somewhere, and you'll get the jittery cursor I had above. Get the +5/gnd backwards, and you'll get nothing at all, except possibly a dead opto board. (although I've done it more than once, and never smoked one yet)

re: your reluctance to pull the panel-

Do you mean you'll have to pull it in order to hook up the mousehack permanently? Can you even hook it up on a temporary basis? That could help you track down the problem- if it works with the mousehack, then you know it's the wiring or the MiniPac.

Was just thinking of if I had to use a mouse hack permanently - yeah, I can just hook up the mouse hack temporarilly for testing purposes without much trouble. BUT, if the mouse hack works and we can't discover what the problem is, guess I'll be pulling off the whole thing *again!*

Texasmame · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2006, 09:07:06 pm »

Well, I tried both opti boards, both from eBay, both from different sellers. Reflowed all the joints. Boards each getting 5v when hitting the ground and 5v pin AND 5v at the input pins for X1 and X2 when hitting either of those pins and the ground, with the optis both uncovered and covered - IIRC, from days gone by, there should be voltage differences when the optos are blocked and when clear (since that's how they work). I'm finding it hard to believe BOTH opto boards are shot

I DID clean the inside of the opti sensor (the part where the wheel would go) - they were caked with crud. Just used napkin and spit, tho. Anyone know if any microfine scratches on those would render them useless? Perhaps I could remove the dark covering on them or are they needed to let the LEDs work corrrectly.

This sucks it hard and long, Trebeck.

Texasmame · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2006, 09:14:18 pm »

Quote from: Kremmit on October 30, 2006, 01:15:01 pm

Yeah, if you have the x wires backwards, you'll just get backwards motion- spin the wheel right and the cursor moves left. Get your x wires shorted somewhere, and you'll get the jittery cursor I had above. Get the +5/gnd backwards, and you'll get nothing at all, except possibly a dead opto board. (although I've done it more than once, and never smoked one yet)

I even tried reversing the 5 and gnd on one board which, I guess, is the arcade troubleshooting version of looking behind the couch for your keys. No smoke, but still no movement. $:-\$

Texasmame · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2006, 09:59:23 pm »

Anyone else with any ideas or, perhaps, a known working opto board to sell/trade?

Kremmit · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2006, 12:26:23 am »

Didja try it with the mousie? Have you tried hooking anything else up to the Minipac to verify that it isn't the problem?

Or, make me an offer on the wheel / opto I tested with. Wheel has a good center decal, too.

Texasmame · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2006, 03:14:11 pm »

Quote from: Kremmit on November 01, 2006, 12:26:23 am

Didja try it with the mousie? Have you tried hooking anything else up to the Minipac to verify that it isn't the problem?

Or, make me an offer on the wheel / opto I tested with. Wheel has a good center decal, too.

Fortunately, I won't need your wheel.

Well, the mouse hack works fine. Been in touch with Andy from Ultimarc and he suggests this:

It maybe that the boards are configured as an active-low configuration. If this is the case, it would be necessary to connect resistors from each X line to ground to pull down the signal. Resistors of 1 K ohm could be tried. Then measure the voltage change, if any , again with covered and uncovered.

So, I'll be off to get some of them there resistors and advise from there. . .

One thing still confuses me here, tho. If the opto works with the mouse hack AND I get voltage changes on the X pins when using the mouse hack while the optos are blocked, why wouldn't I still get voltage changes on the X pins with the optos blocked when hooked up to the MINI. I mean, a ground's a ground and 5 is 5 - right? Seems I should get voltage changes on the X pins with my multimeter regardless of the 5V and ground source used.

trcroyle · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:46:27 pm »

I'd also try running a dedicated 5v line from the pc power supply.

Texasmame · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2006, 07:22:06 pm »

After much dicking around, seems like the MINI isn't recognizing any signal from the opti board, with or without resistors. It's supposed to switch over automatically when it senses a signal (killing the trac input) but it doesn't seem to be doing that.

In touch with Andy for further advice, but I'm suspecting the MINI has issues.

Why?

1. Opti board is known good using a mouse hack.
2. Tried both with and without the resistors using the MINI - no difference.

As a side note, the ground wire for the MINI's spinner interface does not check out with the other MINI grounds for continuity. I suspect, however, that's supposed to be the case and that it only "hooks up" when the software switch senses the spinner being used, then it kills the ground for the trac.

EDIT: Just tried hooking it up to an XP laptop in case it was a 98se thing - same results. All works fine, installs two Human Interface Devices and one mouse. Just won't switch between trac and spinner inputs when it should.

Texasmame · « **Reply #16 on:** November 01, 2006, 08:39:51 pm »

Quote from: Kremmit on October 28, 2006, 10:23:08 pm

I successfully hooked a Pole wheel up to an Opti-Wiz without any hacking or anything, I wonder if it had a different optic board from yours, or if the Opti-Wiz can handle "Active High" signals better than the Mini.

Hmm.. seems like I remember there being an Active High/Active Low jumper on the Opti-Pac, is there one on the Mini-Pac?

Huh. On the jumpers - the pics on the Ultimarc page for the MINI show jumpers, but mine is a different design - definately NO jumpers on it.

See below. . . must be a newer version.

Kremmit · « **Reply #17 on:** November 01, 2006, 10:58:48 pm »

You could test the mini's spinner input by wiring one axis of the trackball to the spinner input instead of the trackball input. Remove the ball from the case, and hand-spin one axis separately from the other. Then you'll know if your issue is with the spinner input on the mini, or the combination of the mini and that particular optical board.

And hey, good thing you have such a fine mouse hack handy, hey?

trcroyle · « **Reply #18 on:** November 02, 2006, 10:01:22 am »

Quote from: Texasmame on November 01, 2006, 07:22:06 pm

As a side note, the ground wire for the MINI's spinner interface does not check out with the other MINI grounds for continuity. I suspect, however, that's supposed to be the case and that it only "hooks up" when the software switch senses the spinner being used, then it kills the ground for the trac.

EDIT: Just tried hooking it up to an XP laptop in case it was a 98se thing - same results. All works fine, installs two Human Interface Devices and one mouse. Just won't switch between trac and spinner inputs when it should.

Some quick thoughts:

Does the trackball work when the spinner isn't connected? How about vice versa?

Have you tried wiring the spinner up to one of the trackball axes rather than to the spinner jumpers?

And, just a long shot, but it looks like the trackball connections at the minipac are x1, gnd, 5v, x2 but the spinner is gnd, x1, x2, 5v. Is there any chance you have the spinner hooked up in the trackball order? (on the minipac rather than the wheel).

Texasmame · « **Reply #19 on:** November 02, 2006, 01:52:26 pm »

Quote from: trcroyle on November 02, 2006, 10:01:22 am

Quote from: Texasmame on November 01, 2006, 07:22:06 pm
As a side note, the ground wire for the MINI's spinner interface does not check out with the other MINI grounds for continuity. I suspect, however, that's supposed to be the case and that it only "hooks up" when the software switch senses the spinner being used, then it kills the ground for the trac.

EDIT: Just tried hooking it up to an XP laptop in case it was a 98se thing - same results. All works fine, installs two Human Interface Devices and one mouse. Just won't switch between trac and spinner inputs when it should.

Some quick thoughts:

Does the trackball work when the spinner isn't connected? How about vice versa?

Have you tried wiring the spinner up to one of the trackball axes rather than to the spinner jumpers?

And, just a long shot, but it looks like the trackball connections at the minipac are x1, gnd, 5v, x2 but the spinner is gnd, x1, x2, 5v. Is there any chance you have the spinner hooked up in the trackball order? (on the minipac rather than the wheel).

Well, your post got me thinking. About all I hadn't done with the MINI for fear of frying it, was reverse the 5V and GND wires. Sure enough, the wiring diagram is wrong. The black is supposed to be the 5v and the brown the GND but they are opposite. Check out the diagram from the Ultimarc page.

I mean, I'm not reading that wrong, right???

Thanx, all! I'll let Andy know that needs to be corrected!

Texasmame · « **Reply #20 on:** November 02, 2006, 07:26:06 pm »

On a final note for search purposes for those having similar problems:

Andy suggested tying two 1K OHM resistors from the signal pins to the ground pin to pull the signal down. You MUST do that to have an Atari Pole Position or APB opto board work with a MINI-PAC.

So, be sure of your wiring (Black = gnd, brown = 5v or, better yet, confirm via a multimeter) and tie down those signals to the ground.

The end.

Texasmame · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2007, 07:25:28 pm »

Someone wrote me today and asked for pics of the opto with the resistors attached. He got the pics and I figured I would add them to this thread as well to hopefully help others in the future. . .

Paladin · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2007, 10:16:51 pm »

Still no go on my optic board, it's the same board as yours (I have several). I just added 1/4 watt 1k ohm resistors from signal wires to ground, just like you did - but now I get 4 flashes of the error LED on the Mini-PAC.

I plug the harness into an optic board with no resistors and get no error code, but it still doesn't work because I get 5v on both signal lines.

I'm even more confused than I was before.

Texasmame · « **Reply #23 on:** March 27, 2007, 03:40:31 pm »

Quote from: Paladin on March 26, 2007, 10:16:51 pm

Still no go on my optic board, it's the same board as yours (I have several). I just added 1/4 watt 1k ohm resistors from signal wires to ground, just like you did - but now I get 4 flashes of the error LED on the Mini-PAC.

I plug the harness into an optic board with no resistors and get no error code, but it still doesn't work because I get 5v on both signal lines.

I'm even more confused than I was before.

You double-check the wiring of the mini? As mentioned earlier in this thread, the 5v and ground wires may be swapped. . .


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