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Author Topic: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launcher  (Read 137517 times)

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spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #240 on: September 15, 2008, 11:59:00 am »
Slow loading OS, slow loading ROMs, slow everything ... I don't think it matters that the OS is optimized and the ROMs are small if data is bottlenecking so badly. I foresee impatient players at your machine ... waiting for it to loooooaaaaad.

I don't see any practical gain in substituting the hard drive. "Minimalist" ? That's good for art class but this is a machine, don't make it less efficient on account of aesthetics.

The flash cards have a much shorter lifespan than hard drives as well (number of writes).

Flash drives and hard drives are like tricycles and automobiles - yes similar in some ways... but each with a very different purpose.

OK, I'm off to get more coffee!!!

Good luck,
Craig

IG-88

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Not doubting you at all Craig, but as a side note, when listening to the infamous Kim Kommando this weekend a caller asked about solid state cards (cf in particular I believe) and she stated they were "the wave of the future" if memory serves. "They were more reliable, faster, and ran cooler". I couldn't help to think of you when I heard that.

EDIT:
I found what she was saying on her site:

Solid-state drives are the wave of the future. They use flash memory to store your data, operating system and programs. Since flash memory has no moving parts, the drives are more rugged than hard drives. They also work in environments where temperatures are more extreme.

The solid-state drives offer other advantages, too. They’re faster than hard drives. Solid-state drives will boot in a fraction of the time it takes a hard drive to boot.

Solid-state drives are more efficient. They use less power and run much cooler than hard drives. This is great for laptop users; it means laptops can go longer between charges.

Solid-state drives face failure, just like hard drives. Flash memory can only be written to so many times. But SanDisk claims a solid-state drive will last six times longer than a hard drive.


Whats your opinion on this statement?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 03:32:50 pm by IG-88 »
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spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #242 on: September 15, 2008, 04:07:30 pm »
As far as I know :

"Solid state" and "flash memory" are two different things.

Shown below from left to right :

Conventional hard drive, solid state drive, flash memory.



If "flash memory" is the successor to floppy disks than "solid state disks" are the successor to hard drives that use platters.



A solid state disk uses RAM instead of platters. The problem with RAM is, when the power is off all data instantly disappears.

I think the trend will be to marry platters and RAM in a solid state / hard drive "hybrid" - the platters can act like the cache and the RAM acts as the hard drive. So when the power goes out the RAM writes to the platters before it powers off.

It all sounds great but that technology is still in it's infancy, stick with sata-150, it's the evolution of conventional hard drives. Fast, affordable, and with large capacity. They are surprisingly quiet too. If one isn't fast enough buy 2 and put them in a RAID-0 array.

That's what I think so far, we'll see what the IT guys have to say. I may be wrong as I don't really keep my thumb on the pulse of computer technology, I have recently started studying photography.

Dig my big camera :)



Have fun :)
Craig
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 05:09:06 pm by spystyle »

Ummon

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On the SATA thing, I'd suggest 300. I think ss drives will be a near-future product, as they're trying to create ram that retains data after power-off. But I'm waiting for wetware devices.
Yo. Chocolate.


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People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #244 on: September 15, 2008, 06:18:36 pm »
There's the voice of the IT guy :)


IG-88

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Ahh... I learn something new every day.  :)  Thanks for straightening that out gentlemen. I've always considered flash drives and solid state the same thing. I figured if it didn't "move" it was solid state. Never-the-less for the price per GB, regular old IDE hard drives seem to be the best for the $$ and being a tight wad thats my first concern  ;D
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Dillsta

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Hey guys me again. Mame-xp runs well but I'm having a bit of trouble getting the roms to work on mame32, some games do work but very slow, i may need more ram to fix this (i currently have 256). but most of the games go to a white screen but i can hear the sound (i was playing metal slug by just listening lol). i think this maybe a graphics card problem, since I'm only using onboard. any suggestions, and if this is a matter of the graphics card can any one point me in the direction of a cheap one that will do the job. Also MaLa doesn't won't to find my roms and then when i click refresh ROM list it comes up with an error and closes, Help appreciated also for this problem.

cheers, Dylan

P.S. i live in Australia so Australian online stores would be preferred for buying the Graphics Card.

EDIT: Fixed roms not showing up in MALA
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 06:47:00 am by Dillsta »

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #247 on: September 16, 2008, 10:36:35 am »
Maxing out the RAM on your computer is an effective way to speed it up for cheap. You can read the mainboard's manual to discover the type and max, then get it off eBay or pricewatch.

A good video card? Depending on what type of expansion slots are available on your mainboard, you could get an inexpensive "GeForce" card that matches the slot. (ex : AGP, PCI, or the newer PCI-e)

The above is upgrading hardware, but if you loosely match your MAME set to your computer in the first place you won't really have to upgrade.

Different versions of MAME require different horsepower. Each newer version supporting more games but requiring more power. Match them kinda like this :

MAME .36 / 500mhz Pentium 2
MAME .53 / 500mhz Pentium 3
MAME .95 / 2GHZ Pentium 4

I would avoid CHD files as well.

Cheers,
Craig

ChadTower

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I just used this for the first time last week... quite good.  I ended up altering the install scripts a bit to suit my own purposes, though.  Let me know, spystyle, if there are any things you wanted to add but don't have time.  I do a lot of blind automation like this in my job.

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #249 on: September 16, 2008, 03:01:25 pm »
Hi Chad,

This is 100% "open source".

First it was Fraggal's, then I revamped it almost completely, now I am happy to "pass the torch" if you care to carry it :)

What improvements have you made?

Cheers,
Craig

 

slapaham

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Okay, I'm not a PC Pro or anything so please bare with me on this.

Basically, I picked up a free Windows 95 PC that was once used in a transport kiosk. When it boots up it gives me 2 options of what to boot - the transport kiosk program (automatic - starts up after 10 seconds if you don't make a choice) or Windows 95. I haven't got any of the Boot disks/CDs or anything.

Anyway, I want to make this into a MAME dedicated machine which I can add files to when I need. Anyway, I have heard that your DOS disc or Linux would get me the best results (as it doesn't use power-hungry Windows). My query is - if I format the hard drives on this PC and then boot up using this disc will it -

a) install everything I need to function the computer to use MAME and the frontend and get rid of all signs of Windows and that bloody kiosk program?
b) will the computer autoboot to the frontend?
c) will it still be reasonably straightforward to add files if required? (I'm guessing using command?)

I'm sorry if these are daft questions but going back to a Windows 95 computer has really thrown me!

Thanks for your help!

IG-88

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Craig would probably be better at these answers than me but I'll give it a shot.  ;D  First off we need to determine what exactly you have here. Do you have any idea what hardware is in it? If you don't let it boot into win95 and install Belarc and let it do it's thing so we can get an idea what we're working with.

As far as your other questions.

a). yes, the disc will format your HD for you. Just stick it in and go.
b). yes, and quickly too.
c). yes, depending what you want to add.

All this depends on your computer tho. DOS can be tricky to work with but I've had good luck with this Disc. We should be able to get you up and running with a little luck.  ;)
"I know what a HAL 9000 is... I was wondering if HAL 7600 was his retarded cousin or something..."
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spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #252 on: September 16, 2008, 09:33:53 pm »
Pentium 3 computers should be available for like $40 these days. If you have a "Windows 95" computer it's likely a "Pentium 1". You can go with DOS, that's what my boot disk is for - reviving these old anchors. However, you might have an easier time just buying a newer computer and trying MAME-XP.

But to answer your questions - yes, if the unit's bios is set to boot from the CD drive you should be able to install DOS. You'll have to read the included docs to add the ROMs.

For a Pentium 1 you'll want to go with an old romset, like .36.

Good luck :)
Craig
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 10:27:21 pm by spystyle »

slapaham

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Thanks for the response guys - sounds good to me!

I won't be upgrading this computer to be honest - I'm making this cab for a friend and so want to keep costs low and the computer (while old) seems perfectly good to me.

Annoying thing is, it hasn't got a CD drive - I was thinking of buying a cheap external one anyway so was thinking this might solve that problem.

I'll find out the spec by the end of the week and keep you posted.

Thanks for all your help!

 :cheers:

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #254 on: September 17, 2008, 08:22:17 am »
That is another problem with the old computers - you want to boot from a USB CD drive, it's likely not supported by the bios. That feature didn't exist back then. You'll have to open the computer and connect an IDE CD drive to an IDE channel.

Good luck,
Craig

slapaham

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A external serial connection CD ROM drive should work though, shouldn't it?

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #256 on: September 17, 2008, 05:22:10 pm »
Hmmmmm ... that's a good question ... I think he would have to install MS-DOS first from floppy disks, then install the driver for that CD drive, then he could use the "SpyStyle DOS disk" but not formatting the hard drive.

For this particular disk he'd be better off to connect an IDE CD-ROM drive to the mainboard's IDE channel and boot from it.

Cheers,
Craig


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You don't think it would boot from the serial cd-rom? There might be a setting in bios to support that. If he hooked it up and then went into the bios and seen it there and was able to make it the first boot-able then it might work.

Shouldn't be too tough too hook it up to a ide port on the mobo tho....
"I know what a HAL 9000 is... I was wondering if HAL 7600 was his retarded cousin or something..."
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spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #258 on: September 17, 2008, 07:37:59 pm »
Bios supporting a serial drive? I've never heard of that... But I've never had a serial drive either.

slapaham

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So... if I connect a CD drive to IDE then I could use this fully with no problems? I have no problems opening up the PC and doing this!

Thanks for your help.


spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #260 on: September 17, 2008, 08:11:13 pm »
fully with no problems?

If only computers were so agreeable ...

But you might get lucky :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 07:07:19 am by spystyle »

IG-88

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No problems?  :P  Not likely, but it will sure make things easier.
"I know what a HAL 9000 is... I was wondering if HAL 7600 was his retarded cousin or something..."
-HarumaN

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Haha, okay, as long as I can sort the problems out when they arise, I don't mind a bit of a challenge...!

 :cheers:

Dillsta

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I'm going to try an older version of Mame i think before i try and find a graphics card. i think using an earlier version might fix it up.

P.S. Sorry for the late reply my graphics cards in this computer i'm using decided to chuck a spaz :banghead:

Thanks Dylan

Dillsta

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OK, the older version of Mame still doesn't work, i think the PC takes pci, so if anyone could recommend a good cheap graphics card that is available in Australia, i would be very grateful.

Cheers Dylan

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #265 on: September 19, 2008, 10:20:18 pm »
GeForce PCI :)

Dillsta

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How do you think a geforce fx 5200 would go. do you think this would fix my white screen problem?

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #267 on: September 19, 2008, 10:48:34 pm »
I think for an older version of MAME any $30 "GeForce 2" or whatever should be fine. Just make sure it's "PCI" and not "PCI-E". Why they name things in such a confusing manner is beyond me...

As for this "white screen" business - I've never heard of that. I think you may be doing something wrong.

Are you using MAME32? Windows? Have you read a tutorial for setting up MAME32?

Did you install directX and do everything else the tutorial told you to do?

I don't recall MAME having such strict video card requirements, it should "play" on just about any computer. It will play "well" on a computer who's specs are in keeping with it's requirements, but should still produce at least a laggy or slow motion picture otherwise... not just a white screen.

As far as I know ...

Cheers,
Craig

Dillsta

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I'm using MaLa and Mame 0.66. I thought about directx as well so i just put it on my memory stick then to copy over. also i was just tinkering around in the options and now it works lol. i think i did something with the resolution or something. but i'm going to copy the hard drive contents to a CD just in case i bugger up. thanks for all your help any way. Now to build the case.

 :notworthy: :notworthy: You Have been a champion so far Craig  :notworthy: :notworthy:

Thanks so much for your help over the last week.

Cheers Dylan

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #269 on: September 20, 2008, 09:06:48 am »
Glad it's working out for you :)

Make it fun!
Craig

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Okay... I've finally found a CDROM drive (well, in fact a CD-RW drive!) for 50p today! Bargain! I've connected it up - changed the boot order so that it should boot from the CDROM first BUT nothing happens... it just boots into Windows 95 as per usual

Windows 95 recognises the drive so I don't think I need to install any drivers...

any suggestions? ???

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #271 on: September 20, 2008, 12:55:13 pm »
FYI : 50p = 1$

OK, so you have a CD-Rom drive, make sure the said CD can be read in Windows. This is to verify the said CD can be read by that drive. Also verify said CD can be read in your 'real computer'.

Cheers,
Craig


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Mmmm, I tried Burn4Free as you suggested it in the past and that didn't work. I've also tried a few different options in Nero 7 Ultra and also DVD Decrycpter. My XP computer picks up the disc but the Windows 95 computer just won't boot from it - I'm lost on this. Perhaps if I install some CD burning software on the Windows 95 computer and burn it using the new CD drive then it might pick it up!? or is that just too logical!? :banghead:

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #273 on: September 20, 2008, 02:01:05 pm »
See if your real computer can boot said CD.

If yes :

Try using the CD-rom drive from your real computer in your arcade computer, see if said CD can boot in it.

Cheers,
Craig

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I've got one more question! If the game works but is slow and laggy would putting in more ram fix this?

Thanks Dylan

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #275 on: September 20, 2008, 09:01:05 pm »
Adding RAM and a better video card can only help. But ...

What version MAME / ROMset are you running?

Also, you can use fastMAME instead of MAME, that should be slightly faster. You can adjust the MAME's settings to speed things up, like lower resolution video and what not.

Cheers,
Craig

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I'm using MAME .66, the games that run slow are like mortal kombat. and I've only got 256mb RAM does this sound right?

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #277 on: September 21, 2008, 03:53:39 am »
Why the DOS way? Is there no bootable Linux CD with a nice set of emulators and a front end, running on OpenGL, with a good UI and support for modern displays?

spystyle

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #278 on: September 21, 2008, 07:35:40 am »
Why DOS? Why not?

Anyway, I think we have moved onto an optimized XPSP3 now.

As for a Linux boot disk, if you feel so strongly about it why don't you make it? It's open source, you have no excuses :)

Cheers,
Craig

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Re: Boot CD installs DOS, Vantage, Raine, MAME (1 of 7 versions) and Game Launch
« Reply #279 on: September 21, 2008, 10:09:07 am »
I'm using MAME .66, the games that run slow are like mortal kombat. and I've only got 256mb RAM does this sound right?

So let's recap :

800mhz P3
256 MB RAM
OnBoard video (likely with 8 MB shared RAM)
MAME-XP
MAME .66 and a .66 ROMset (with Mala front end)

Is that all correct?

Adding a GeForce card to that would surely help.

Alright .. I'll review my notes and see how we can speed that rig up as is ...

OK, as I've said switching from MAME 66 to FastMAME 66 can help. Here is FastMAME 66 :

http://tinyurl.com/4zjevr

Alright, I have set up FastMAME 66 + Mortal Kombat ROM from a .61 ROMset, let's see what I can do to make it hyper-speed...

OK, to test FPS I make a batch file (go.bat) that reads :

fastmame mk
pause

I start the game and press f10 (disable frame rate throttle) and f11 (display frame rate) right away, then let it run until it reads "Goro lives".

Mortal Kombat? Yuck! I would have preferred Dig Dug.

After exiting MAME a DOS box appears and displays the average frame rate.

OK, right out of the box it runs @ 207 FPS.

I make another batch file that reads :

fastmame -cc

This tells fastMAME to create a config file that I can edit.

Now fastmame.ini exists, I can edit it and hopefully speed up Mortal Kombat ...

I changed the resolution from "auto" to 640x480, new framerate 198 FPS ...

I changed the resolution from "auto" to 320x240, new framerate 219 FPS ... 

So it seems that "auto resolution" works OK, let's see what else we can adjust ...
 
OK, resolution back to "auto" and now "resamplefilter 0" let's see if that's a winner ...

OK, now 247 FPS rather than 207 FPS, so that was a winner. Let's see what else ...

OK, I change the samplerate to 22050 rather than 44100 ... now 243 FPS ... Hmmmm

OK, samplerate back to 44100 ... How about "sound 0" I bet that'll be dramatic ...

OK, with sound disabled the frame rate is 578, that's good but there is no audio at all ...

Hmmmmm .... Well I guess FastMAME already has the best options by default, logically it would.

Let's compare our FastMAME framerate of 247, achieved by disabling "ReSampleFilter", to regular MAME 66 ...

FastMAME 66 with all default options except "ReSampleFilter" disabled : 257 FPS

MAME 66 with all default options except "ReSampleFilter" disabled : 244 FPS

Well that was less dramatic than I anticipated.

I guess the best you can do is install FastMAME rather than MAME and disable ReSampleFilter.

I will now concede and wait for the IT guy to chime in :)

This post needs a picture! I have been hanging around the photography forum too much... Here is a lovely lighthouse I captured with my little pocket camera :



And the same lighthouse modeled by my little boss :



Cheers,
Craig
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 05:34:18 pm by spystyle »