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How do you do this to your kids?

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DrewKaree:


--- Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on October 02, 2006, 06:08:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: DrewKaree on September 29, 2006, 09:51:28 pm ---He's the little bastard type who - check THIS out - looks out the window when I pull up, and hides his hand behind the curtain so mom can't see him, and flips me the bird.  I've already spoken to her about him, she told him "knock it off".  That's it.  Now I just lean on the horn when he's doing it. 

--- End quote ---

This scenario cracks me the f' up for some reason. Sounds so "Raising Arizona"...  :laugh2:

Maybe the kid reads your postings on Pn'R?  :laugh:


mrC

--- End quote ---

I keep getting the feeling his middle name is "Dexter". ;D

He's a little bastard who has learned that mom is unwilling to do something that might make him "hate" her.  He was the last kid, the one she had before splitting with LoserDad, but too young to know LoserDad.  The other two kids know what an ass LoserDad is, and also how NutsMom is.  NutsMom lavishes all kinds of attention on the youngest, trying to "save" him.  Meanwhile, she's training him to manipulate situations to get himself out of trouble, get his wishes met, etc.  She's training him to undoubtedly face serious problems in life when it becomes apparent that nobody else cares how his mom dealt with him and that they expect far more from this little asshat and WILL deal out consequences for his prickitude.



mr.Curmudgeon:

Disclaimer: I don't have kids of my own, however, both myself and my fiance' have spent loads of time in positions of authority over children (Counselors, etc), as well as in positions that have allowed us to observe various methods of parental interaction/discipline, and the subsequent consequences of those interactions with the children (when the parent is not around).

From both our experiences, it was easy to conclude that the children of parents who did *not* use spanking/corporal punishment were usually easier to deal with and generally more well behaved. If the parent tends to use a beating as an extreme measure of control, that leaves everyone else who will ever interact with that child at a disadvantage, since (obviously) they as teacher, family member, aquaintence, cannot haul off and belt the child if they're doing something really wrong.

We both feel that the only thing spanking does is teach a child that they need to behave *just* well enough to avoid being spanked. It creates a confrontational atmosphere, rather than a solutions-based one. It does not impart on them them a true understanding of the consequences of their behavior, other than that they can be hit for something that is "wrong". How does this prepare them against making wrongful decisions later in life? A Boss won't hit them if they are doing wrong, etc...

There are two couples in our lives (a friend of ours and his wife, and my fiance's brother and his wife), both have two children and neither couple spank their kids. They've used positive reinforcement from their first interactions with them, for even the simplest, most trivial things. So, when it comes to punishment time, there is less of a need to ramp up the threat. As soon as the kids sense a change in the parents demeanor, they know it's serious. They ask the kids a LOT of questions, and help them to come to their own conclusions about behavior.

They never say, "NO!" or "Don't" or "Stop that!"...instead saying things like, "What should you be doing instead?", or "If you throw that again, we'll have you donate it to someone who will take care of it", and when the kid throws it again, they've taken a trip down to the Salvation Army and had the kid walk up to the counter and donate the toy themselves. Tears and all.

My in-laws and their kids stayed with me and my fiance' for 12 days, about a month or so ago, and I have to say that we were "retrained", in a sense, on how to speak positively. It was reeeeeeeeeally difficult to remember to do, but once we got the hang of it you could just sense how much it improved almost every situation. It makes the kids less defensive, and more apt to listen and understand a given situation. Most importantly, when the kids were left only with "Unca' Daze" (Me=Uncle Dave) and Auntie Rae, we adults had the EXACT SAME tools for punishment that their mom and dad have when they're alone with the kids. Which was refreshing. I didn't have to worry that they'd misbehave to the extent that I would need to "spank" them, but couldn't...it never, ever comes to that. There are so many other tools available, and bringing the child into a better understanding of their own behavior and the consequences of that behavior through a more positive approach...seems to stick with them more effectively.

I will be using the methods I've learned from both these couples, should we ever decide to have children of our own.




--- Quote from: Ed_McCarron on October 02, 2006, 04:17:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: shmokes on October 02, 2006, 03:46:58 pm ---I think it's unecessary because better alternatives are available.

--- End quote ---

I'm open to suggestions.  Since you obviously know everything there is to be said on the matter, would you care to enlighten us?  How d'you handle your kids?

--- End quote ---


DrewKaree:


--- Quote from: shmokes on October 01, 2006, 03:30:49 pm ---
I just don't think that using the physical advantage you have over your kids is acceptable.  I cannot think of a reason why it's not okay for a man to hit a woman, but it's okay for an adult to hit a child, when the size and strength disparity is all the more pronounced.  I think it also teaches children that having a physical advantage over another person gives the stronger a legitimate authority to exert their will over the weaker.

I just think it ain't right, it gives unhealthy, mixed messages, and that any possible good that can come of it can be accomplished in ways that don't carry with them the negative baggage that corporal punishment does.


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You're confusing abuse with discipline.  You're using a ridgid definition of spanking to fit it into a definition by which spanking indeed IS NOT acceptable. 

Reading YOUR definition above of "using your physical advantage over a child", "giving unhealthy mixed messages", and your assertion that "any possible good" can be accomplished in other ways leads me to believe you quite simply stated this out of either anger or resurfacing of old feelings about how you felt when getting spanked.  It sounds as if your family either LED with the spankings OR used it far more quickly due to the size of your family. 

I believe this, because I cannot fathom how you can state what you did, then turn around and claim THIS:


--- Quote from: shmokes on October 02, 2006, 03:46:58 pm ---
I think that spanking can be effective in some cases. 


--- End quote ---

The first quote from you paints quite a stark black/white picture.

I'm guessing the second quote demonstrates that even you can see the efficacy of such a disciplinary method.

The words this woman used when talking with her children, IMO, MOST DEFINITELY were far more damaging than a spanking.  Used improperly, ANY disciplinary method or measure can be taken to extremes and lead someone to believe "it should NEVER be done".  Painting such an extreme picture of such methods closes off the possibility of using something that may be the only thing that will work, as well as lead to the potential that such a method STILL might end up being used, and if so, will most likely be used in anger - anger that a child has caused you to resort to a method you may have mentally swore NEVER to use.

To equate spanking as a disciplinary method with hitting your child because of physical advantage is simply foolish.  If that helps you sleep at night, I hope you're now suffering sleepless nights wondering how you could have ever stated that spanking could be effective in ANY case after equating it with what can reasonably be described as "abuse" - a DEFINITE difference in what we're talking about.

DrewKaree:


--- Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on October 02, 2006, 07:59:48 pm ---
If the parent tends to use a beating as an extreme measure of control, that leaves everyone else who will ever interact with that child at a disadvantage, since (obviously) they as teacher, family member, aquaintence, cannot haul off and belt the child if they're doing something really wrong.


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I find the extreme is always used when talking about spanking.  Does NO ONE know of a person who doesn't "beat" their kids?  I'd tell you that you do - ME - but this is about as "personal" as it gets with you knowing me.  I'd also venture a guess that there are many here who DON'T "give their kids a beating".

"belt", "beat", "haul off", "whack", "smack", "pound", "whale"..... the term is "spank".


--- Quote ---spank (spăngk) pronunciation

v., spanked, spank
--- End quote ---


ChadTower:


That sounds about right.  I have had occasions to spank my older son.  Rare, but they happened, with an open hand and not even enough to leave a mark.  But he got the point and it was more effective than the 50 previous times we yelled at him for the same thing, put him on timeout, took things away, etc.  And I can truthfully say it hurt me 25x more than it did him when I did it.  I had to stop him from grabbing boiling pots and nothing else had worked.

What my brother and I got were beatings.  Sometimes not so bad, sometimes pretty bad.  I suspect that the "not so bad" line migrated towards the "pretty bad" line after a while and I just don't remember it happening. 

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